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Erik Hoffman listed several ways besides "Circle left 3/4" to move the women, but not the me--or the men, but not the women-- across the set Some of those other ways (along with the four listed above) are mentioned in the archived message I referenced earlier: http://www.sharedweight.net/pipermail/callers/2012-March/ 004654.html And here are a few more that I didn't list: * From long wavy lines on the sides, dancers facing in walk straight across the set and face out while those facing out loop to the right and face in. As far as I know, this action derived from the "box circulate" [or perhaps more accurately from "split circulate"] of MWSD, was first used in a contra by Steve Schnur in "The 24th of June". * Down the hall four in line. End gent turn alone while the other three do a right-hand-high/left-lady-under turn. * Ladies or gents do a pair of 3/4 allemandes as in "Mary Cay's Reel" or "The Country of Marriage." (However those two particular dances also happen to include "Circle left 3/4".) --Jim On Jun 5, 2013, at 2:08 PM, Erik Hoffman wrote: > When considering moves think about what they do: > > A circle left 3/4 moves everyone to the right one spot. This means > that one person ends on the side they started with, and the other > crosses over. The vast majority of the time it's the man who ends > up on the same side they started on, and the women ends up crossing > over. With this in mind, if you want to modify a dance to create a > bit more variation you could, instead: > > > one of these variants may work in the choreography of the dance. > > And, of course, you could just ask a bunch of people for dances that > don't include the move, like those others have submitted and: > > "There is no way to Peace; Peace is the way" > Becket > Erik Hoffman > A1 Women Do Si Do; Partner Swing > A2 Men Allemande Left 1-1/2; Neighbor Swing > B1 Long Lines Forward & Back; Women Right Elbow Turn 1-1/2 > B2 Women Star Promenade Partner 3/4 until two (new-Next Neighbor) > Men meet > Men link Left Elbows (women let go of the right elbow) to Star > Promenade > End on Own Side with a butterfly twirl to face that same Next > Neighbor couple > Note: the quote is a saying from A. J. Muste, our nations one time > "most famous pacifist." It boggles my mind that, with our corporate > media tied to the military-industrial complex, we could have ever > had a famous pacifist. Then again, we had Martin Luther King, too... > > More Again > Penn Fix > Improper > A1 (Current) Neighbor Do Si Do > -- end in long waves, Neighbor in Right, Previous Neighbor > in Left, Men facing out, Women in > Balance the wave (4) > Current Neighbor Allemande Right > A2 Previous Neighbor Allemande Left; Current Neighbor Swing > B1 Men Allemande Left 1-1/2; Partner Swing > B2 Women Allemande Right, pull Partner to Center with Left, > Men Pull By with Right, Current Neighbor Allemande Left 1-1/4 > to meet next Neighbor for the A1 DSD > > Curly Cues > Erik Hoffman > Improper > A1 -- a "Wizard Walk like Move": > 1s split the 2s to meet Next (future #2-Neighbors) > With Future 2s Gypsy until the ones can cast up > and around current 2s to original place, where the 1s > cross to proper sides ending in a line of four with the 2s > in the center > A1 Down Hall 4 in line, fold line (momentary circle) 1s join > hands, 2s open up for a line facing up the hall, now 1s > in center. 2s hand cast the 1s to long lines > B1 1s turn Contra Corners > B2 1s Balance & Swing Partner > My variation of Chorus Jig... > > ~erik hoffman > Oakland, CA > > On 6/5/2013 12:53 PM, frannie wrote: >> Circle L 3/4 & swing, Circle L 3/4 & pass thru, Circle L 3/4 & >> balance the >> wave, Circle L 3/4 & balance the ring all feel just a little >> different. >> And it's better than having a program with all gents allemande L 1.5! >> I've had this problem before! >> ~ frannie >> _______________________________________________ >> Callers mailing list >> Callers(a)sharedweight.net >> http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > Callers(a)sharedweight.net > http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers

On Wed, Jun 05, 2013, Robert Golder wrote: Here's a Beckett with a circle that doesn't start with a circle: Panix Dot Chat (aahz(a)pobox.com) Beckett formation Right-and-left thru on left diagonal (8) (Yes, start with progression) (Warn ends about not moving) Right-and-left thru new couple (8) Circle left 3/4 (8) Swing neighbor (8) Pass through (4) California twirl (4) Men left-hand turn once-and-half (8) Balance and swing partner (16) -- Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6 http://rule6.info/ <*> <*> <*> Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Hi All This is a great video for showing the joy of contra dance. http://vimeo.com/67428955 And I'm supporting his the kick start project too. Cheers, Bill

Hmmmmmm. I am going to respectfully disagree. It might seem like a single progression, since you are doing 56 counts of the dance with just one couple. But, you are actually dancing with two distinct couples. You pass by the first couple in the R&L through on the left diagonal, this is the only movement danced with them. You then dance the remainder of the dance with a second couple. Another hint that this is double progression is the fact that you are not out at the top of the set (you indicate this in your notes, when you mention that the top couple should not move; if it were single progression, they would have to cross to other side of the set, and wait out one cycle of the dance). This is quite distinctive of double prog. dances. Becket Reel is another Double prog. dance that progresses in the same way that your dance does, except that the progression occurs at the B1. You can see the dance below. Hope this explanation helps! warmly, Linda Becket Reel By Herbie Gaudreau Becket formation, double clockwise progression A1 Allemande left your corner, swing partner A2 full ladies chain across B1 on the left diagonal: half right and left through straight across: half right and left through B2 (across) star left star right * note that you end with your left hand free ready for the initial allemande left On Jun 5, 2013, at 9:01 PM, Aahz Maruch wrote:

On Jun 5, 2013, at 9:06 PM, Bill Baritompa wrote: [Note: I've heard and seen R&L through on the diagonal followed by R&L through with a new couple straight across is known as a "bucksaw". "Sawtooth" is something else. See below. --js] I think that what goes is that Aahz isn't the first person who ever managed not to notice that the bucksaw action achieves a double progression. Also you could dance the first (diagonal) R&L through in such a way that each couple doesn't advance up or down the set quite into the other couple's place, and then you could dance the second R&L through (or "right and left back") with the same couple, contriving to end up directly across from them, or very nearly so. I've heard or read somewhere that when "Becket Reel" was first introduced, many dancers were tempted to do just that, and it took callers some effort to get them to dance the second R&L with a new(er) couple across the set. However what Herbie Gaudreau (author of "Becket Reel) intended was indeed the double progression interpretation, and as far as I've seen, that's also the current standard interpretation of the bucksaw action today. "Fisher's Jig", as I've called it and as I've seen it danced is a double progression. You can see it done that way in this video with Beth Molaro calling at the University of Chicago: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKfA94u91G0&feature=related If you watch carefully, you will see that after after doing the diagonal R&L through, dancers do the this second R&L through with a different couple. And later in the video when the camera zooms out so that you can see the tops of the sets, you can see that there's never a couple out at the top during the hey. The description of "Another Art and Nancy's Fancy" in Joseph Pimentel's book _The Cardinal Collection_ says that it's a double progression. From the choreography as given in _Dance All Night 2_ by Tom Hinds, I interpret it as a double progression. Tom doesn't say that it is, but he doesn't explicitly say that it's single progression either. I interpret the description at http://web.archive.org/web/20091021095357/http://geocities.com/barbkirchner… as double progression, though it could be made into a single if the B2 were changed to "..., same 4 circle L ...". From the description at http://www.merridancing.com/dances.htm#n3 the basic version (which doesn't have a bucksaw action) is a single progression dance. The alternate B2 "for more advanced dancers" looks like a double progression to me. I interpret the description at http://www.richgoss.com/rgdancecomp.html#n7.1 as double progression. bucksaw I'd say that the (currently) standard way to interpret these dance descriptions as written is as a double progression, but they could be modified to single progression versions. * * * * * * * * * * * * I said that "sawtooth" means something different from "bucksaw", so I guess I should say what it means. In most current contra choreography, when dancers are in couples (whether with partner or with neighbor) on the sides of the set, each couple is--at least in theory--directly across the set from a couple on the other side. "Sawtooth formation" is a name coined by Larry Jennings for a situation where, by design, each couple is directly across the set from the gap between two different couples on the other side. The most common case is for dancers to be together with their partners and for each couple to be across from the gap between the neighbors they were just dancing with and the neighbors they're about to dance with. For example, in Larry's dance "Give And Take I", the neighbor swing in B1 ends with dancers facing their respective partners across the set. In the eponymous give-and-take figure, dancers advance to the meet in the middle and men draw their partners back into a swing. The usual habit of experienced contra dancers would to adjust the position of the swings to put couples directly across from their current neighbors. Larry preferred instead that dancers swing approximately on the spots where the men began the give-and-take action, so that dancers are in "sawtooth" formation, with each couple being on a slight right diagonal from the neighbors they were just dancing with and on a slight left diagonal from the neighbors with whom they're about to start the next round. Larry discusses both the sawtooth formation and the revision of bucksaw-like sequences to single progressions in section V-12 of his book _Give-and-Take_. --Jim

On Thu, 6 Jun 2013 22:51:14 +1200, Liz and Bill wrote: Since the original Becket Reel is double progression I label such dances as "Becket" and the single progression ones as "Becket - single progression". Colin Hume

Becket formation contra dances can be confusing when considering whether it's a "double progression" or not. If you progress to the next couple leaving a couple out at the top, it's a single progression. At the far end there will either be a couple out every time (with an odd number of couples), or no couple out every time (with an even number of couples). It's a bit mysterious how the sawtooth right & left through ends up a double progression. But, if you think of it this way: If you slide left to meet another couple, you are really only passing one person, and one person goes out on the end. If you slide all the way past that couple, so the couple on the end comes in well, you are definitely passing two people. Start: M1 Wa W1 Ma M2 Wb W2 Mb M3 Wc W3 Mc One Progression: W1 M1 (out) M2 Wa W2 Ma M3 Wb W3 Mb Mc Wc (out) Two progressions: M2 W1 W2 M1 M3 Wa W3 Ma Mc Wb Wc Mb Clear as mud? ~erik hoffman Oakland, CA On 6/5/2013 9:06 PM, Bill Baritompa wrote:

Wow, thanks all for the the helpful links and dance suggestions! Lots of homework to do, and it's underscoring the need to get my dances into a searchable database so that finding the ones without x, y and/or z doesn't take more than a couple of minutes. I think I've gotten the program whipped into shape, with only a few (and varied) circle lefts. Phew! Of course, trying to _also_ avoid a big pile-up of "long lines F and B" and "men allemande L 1-1/2" turned this process into something the SAT folks would be proud of. And did I mention the time pressure? Sheesh. Anyway, I really appreciate the help from everyone out there. You guys are great! Kalia

I can't speak to it being a new issue but I've noticed the late progression as well. It drives me crazy when I'm dancing, especially if there's supposed to be a balance at the top of the A1. As a caller, once the dance has begun it's almost impossible to try and bend that timing back into line. You're right that it's a good thing to stress in the walk-through. Maybe a few folks will pick up on it and the good timing will spread. I can dream, can't I? I notice the same problem, even worse, when it's a swing your partner on the side and then slide left Becket progression. Everyone wants to milk every last beat out of that swing and then they scramble to catch up for the rest of the dance because they missed the slide left. Grumble, grumble, kids these days... Kalia On 6/6/2013 5:47 AM, Read Weaver wrote: I can't speak to it being a new issue but I've noticed the late progression as well. It drives me crazy when I'm dancing, especially if there's supposed to be a balance at the top of the A1. As a caller, once the dance has begun it's almost impossible to try and bend that timing back into line. You're right that it's a good thing to stress in the walk-through. Maybe a few folks will pick up on it and the good timing will spread. I can dream, can't I? Kalia

On Jun 6, 2013, at 12:19 PM, Chris Lahey wrote, on the subject of getting dancers to complete the sequence "circle left 3/4, pass through" in 8 beats: I think that this sequence is one for whihc it can be useful to prompt a figure--namely "pass through"--with the last beat of the call falling earlier than the beat just before the first beat of the action. Specifically, I often time the words "pass through" so the word "through" falls on beat 4 of the circle, not beat 6. You can hear some examples of other callers doing the same in these videos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_-uD_-nV6g (Steve Zakon-Anderson calls a contra medley at the Concord Scout House. Notice his timing on the third sequence in the medley, Lisa Greenlef's "After the Solstice", wich starts around 5:40.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMInHQo4mJY (Maggie Cowan calls "Black Bird in the Night" by Don Flaherty.) The idea is that if you say the word "through" by beat 4, it will implicitly encourage slow circlers to pick up the pace. If you say "pass through" on beats 5 and 6, it's already too late to help any dancers who haven't already gotten their circles turned 3/4 of the way around by the time you say "through". You could also try to explain the timing during the walk-through, either by using numbers of beats (six to circle left 3/4; two to pass through), or just by remarking that the time dancers have to circle left 3/4 and pass through is the same time that some dances allow for the circle 3/4 alone, so they (dancers) had better make the circle a little brisker than they might expect. Beware that when you speak in declarative sentences or ask dancers to picture a move that they're not doing right now (e.g., talking about the timing of the circle while dancers are lined up after the walk-through and waiting for the music to start), there are likely to be some who won't be paying attention or who won't be able to visualize whatever part of the dance you're blabbing about. On the other hand, a few dancers who already the basics of timing might pick up on your words and be a little more attentive about politely (I hope) helping their less experienced neighbors to be on time. It can also be helpful to have music that clearly telegraphs when it's coming around to the first beat of the figure after 'Pass Through". --Jim

Well, just like athletes jump further and run and swim  faster today than they did thirty years ago, today contra dancers can circle once around in 8 beats   Michael Fuerst      802 N Broadway      Urbana IL 61801       217-239-5844 ________________________________ From: Greg McKenzie &lt;grekenzie(a)gmail.com&gt; To: Caller's discussion list &lt;callers(a)sharedweight.net&gt; Sent: Thursday, June 6, 2013 11:37 PM Subject: Re: [Callers] Circle left 3/4 I remember once being in a caller's workshop with Ted Sannella and he asked us how many beats a circle took.  We answered "eight," and he said "No.  A circle really takes 10 beats." - Greg McKenzie West Coast, USA ****************** On Thu, Jun 6, 2013 at 4:08 PM, James Saxe &lt;jim.saxe(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: _______________________________________________ Callers mailing list Callers(a)sharedweight.net http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers

On Jun 6, 2013, at 9:37 PM, Greg McKenzie wrote: Greg, I find this story surprising. Are you sure you're remembering correctly and, if so, are you sure you're not omitting some important context or qualification of Ted's remark? I'm reminded, by the way, of being in a caller's workshop with Larry Edelman where he asked us about how many beats it took to do some figure. (I don't remember for sure whether it was circle four once around or some other nominally 8-beat figure.) When we answered "eight", he corrected us, saying that eight beats was the time for dancers to do the figure *and be ready to do the next thing*. --Jim

In such situations, shouldn't the slide left happen at the beginning of the phrase? My problem with that progression is on the other hand-- people don't realize that the circle that often comes after the slide left is only 6 beats. The entire time I've been dancing, I've noticed the issue of people not doing circles in the appropriate amount of time. There are some very popular dances that confound this problem (such as The Baby Rose, which gives you 8 beats for a 3/4 circle). I don't know if it's something callers can help by explaining that 3/4 circles should only take six beats, and that full circles should take eight, but it becomes a problem any time there's a circle left 3/4, followed by a move that is supposed to take 2 beats to finish the phrase. -Dave -- David Casserly (cell) 781 258-2761

Dancers in th Midwest are not circle left 3/4   impaired    Michael Fuerst      802 N Broadway      Urbana IL 61801       217-239-5844 Links to photos of many of my drawings and paintings are at www.ArtComesFuerst.com ________________________________ From: Dave Casserly &lt;david.j.casserly(a)gmail.com&gt; To: kalia(a)sbcglobal.net; Caller's discussion list &lt;callers(a)sharedweight.net&gt; Sent: Thursday, June 6, 2013 2:22 PM Subject: Re: [Callers] Circle left 3/4 In such situations, shouldn't the slide left happen at the beginning of the phrase?  My problem with that progression is on the other hand-- people don't realize that the circle that often comes after the slide left is only 6 beats. The entire time I've been dancing, I've noticed the issue of people not doing circles in the appropriate amount of time.  There are some very popular dances that confound this problem (such as The Baby Rose, which gives you 8 beats for a 3/4 circle).  I don't know if it's something callers can help by explaining that 3/4 circles should only take six beats, and that full circles should take eight, but it becomes a problem any time there's a circle left 3/4, followed by a move that is supposed to take 2 beats to finish the phrase. -Dave -- David Casserly (cell) 781 258-2761 _______________________________________________ Callers mailing list Callers(a)sharedweight.net http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers

On Jun 6, 2013, at 3:03 PM, I (Jim Saxe) quoted a 1996 posting to rec.folk-dancing by Caroline Fahrney about choreography that encourages good timing, and I then remarked The part about "little to be gained" seemed vaguely familiar as I was writing it. I now find that in article 5 of _The Contra Connection_, "Zesty Circles" (originally published in _CDSS News_, Issue 88, May/June 1988), Dan Pearl indeed mentions the sequence "circle left 3/4, pass through along, balance and swing." And in the same article, Larry Jennings writes: ... little is gained by taking a stand on the sequence "Circle left (8); left hand star (8)." Everything is gained by insisting on *either* "circle left 3/4 in a compact group (6); pass through (2); start the next figure on the strong beat" *or* "circle left 3/4 relatively spaciously (8); give a satisfying tug to start a pass through on the strong beat and continue the next figure." However, all is lost if the caller fails to be very clear about which interpretation prevails. [The words "either" and "or", which I've emphasized using asterisks, are underlining in the original. --js] --Jim