David, Thank you for the description- I think I understand why I was confused now. I would like to try ECD again sometime. I originally was introduced to ECD in Dallas I think? Then to contra. But I wasn't in Dallas long and of the two I've only done contra since. With my current workload at home (5 kids ages 10 yr - 4 months, we homeschool, my 5 year old is disabled) I don't get to travel to workshops right now. I look forward to 20 years from now and enjoying my retirement! Alison in Memphis -- David.Millstone(a)valley.net (David Millstone) wrote: --- Alison wrote: Is a cloverleaf turn single always ladies over left and gents over right --- end of quote --- Not necessarily. In English country dancing, unless otherwise specified, a "set and turn single" call will have dancers turning to the right. But the cloverlead turn single depends on where you are when you start the move. Some background, first.... <snip> In Handsome Young Maids, at the end of A2, everyone is back in their starting position, with hands joined in a ring. Instead of setting, we have a balance the circle for the same number of beats, followed by the turn single. In this case, the men loop over their right shoulder and women over their left shoulder. The Ones are facing down and as they draw back with their inside shoulder toward the outside to start the turn single, they're rotating to face each other before moving to the outside. The Twos, who are facing up at the start, are doing something similar as they turn down and away from each other. So, for both couples, there's a nice moment of partner interaction before meeting your neighbor at the end of the turns. (There are also great opportunities for eye contact with dancers in adjacent sets who are turnout out of their set at the same time as you are. Note-- the turn in this dance is slight less than a full turn, which means dancers need to take even smaller steps or, if there's room in the hall, even wider loops. I like the dance, but for that reason rarely call it if it's a crowded hall. David P.S. Alison, maybe you can locate some English country dancing in the Memphis area, or make arrangements to get to a weekend or weeklong camp at John C. Campbell Folk School in Brasstown, NC, or to Berea, KY, for Christmas Country Dance School. You'll have a great opportunity at either place to learn ECD, and then a whole wonderful world awaits. I often say that our best dancing comes when we're doing contras and squares with skilled English country dancers, or English with strong contra dancers! redweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers