Thank you for a great and timely discussion of how inter-related the calls, the tunes, and the dancers really are... As a new caller, a young-and-gaining-experience dance fiddler, and an I've-been-dancing-for-years dancer who wasn't why some dances were FUN and some were pretty fun and some were okay, I've been trying my darndest to figure out how to match tunes with dances, to create a WOW experience for the dancers... A new way to look at the music, and to play the phrases with a dance card in front of me! callers-request(a)sharedweight.net wrote: Send Callers mailing list submissions to callers(a)sharedweight.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to callers-request(a)sharedweight.net You can reach the person managing the list at callers-owner(a)sharedweight.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Callers digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Callers Digest, Vol 37, Issue 6 (Martha Wild) 2. The balance thing. (Amy Cann) 3. Re: The balance thing. (Cynthia Phinney) 4. Re: The balance thing. (Chris Weiler) 5. Re: The balance thing. (David Millstone) 6. Re: The balance thing. (Dan Black) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 20:27:48 -0700 From: Martha Wild Subject: Re: [Callers] Callers Digest, Vol 37, Issue 6 To: callers(a)sharedweight.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed I'd do a nice set of polkas - like the Ballydesmond Polkas. For the more Old Timey minded, Rock the Cradle Joe or perhaps Grub Springs could work. Martha On Sep 9, 2007, at 9:00 AM, callers-request(a)sharedweight.net wrote: ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 01:38:48 -0400 From: "Amy Cann" Subject: [Callers] The balance thing. To: "Caller's discussion list" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Dead silence for weeks and then a four page rant? OK, I'm going to stop lurking and finally jump in. Brace yourself. I have never quite understood why *other* musicians want to know where the balances are. Sure, it's good to "spike" the balances in my playing, but I can do that ANYwhere in a tune - and if I can't, I ain't no fiddler. And sure it's good to know where the balances ARE, but I can get that by watching the dance - and if I'm not watching the dance, then I ain't no fiddler. Let me posit something: what we're really talking about here is LENGTH OF PHRASE. The one thing I want to know from a caller: how long are the phrases that you care about? The balances often mark the starts or ends of a phrase, but they're not always the actual issue. HUH? OK: As both a caller and fiddler/pianist, I find with many callers (I'll get to the exceptions later) that the fastest way to match the tune to the dance is to say - "hey, can I see that card a sec?" First, I get to check out everyone else's heiroglyphics, and second, I can see what's going on faster than anyone could ever explain it to me. And here's what I'm looking for: where do things stop? Well, not stop, more like.."gather." It takes 16 beats to get through an A. This is NOT the same thing as 16 steps. When you step, your weight is passing from one foot to the other. We take LOTS of steps in contradancing, but what we also get are lots of GATHERING moments, when we suck our weight together under us. Circle left = /step step step step /step step step step/ -- IF the next move is slide-left-along-the-lines. It also can = /step step step step /step step step GATHER / -- IF the next thing is going to be balance-the-circle. Think about it. Sometimes we gather ourselves, alone; sometimes in pairs, sometimes as a four person circle or line-of-four, wavy or not, and sometimes as a whole-room line. (We usually do this for one of two reasons: because we're about to go the OTHER way, or because we ARE going to go on, in a moment, in the same direction, but we're setting up some sort of delayed-gratification thing.) And often, without that clear gathering moment, the next thing won't work well. Think lines-forward-and-back: in some dances the line MUST suck itself together, snap into formation, BEFORE moving forward, or it won't have that satisfying clarity. NOW, tunes have places where they continue and places where they stop/gather too: Sometimes they go: deedle-deedle-noodle-noodle-deedle-noodle-doodle-needle for the whole time. Sometimes they go: deedle noodle CHUCK, deedle noodle CHUCK, chucka noodle chucka noodle YA CHA CHA! (hear the stops?) Another way to think of it: 16 beats could be 123stop 123stop 12345678 or it could be 1stop12345678910111213 stop or it could be.... you get it. NOW, the whole reason contradancing stays fresh (this my theory, and just my theory, but *I* believe it) is because even though the same people come every week, and the dances have a certain number of moves, and the band plays a limited number of tunes, the COMBINATION is never the same. Different partner, different neighbor. Different tune/dance pairing. Different 4+4 +8 tune layered over 8+2+2+4 dance. Imagine doing an allemande/balance/allemande/balance sequence to a tune that stops and starts right along WITH you. It can feel very satisfying, neatly packaged. Doing that same sequence while the tune keeps driving onwards? Now there's a delicious sense of urgency, gotta-catch-up. The better the dancers/caller/band, the more you can stretch the limits of that kind of interplay. HOWEVER, there are places where the dance stops/gathers, and the tune REALLY needs to do the same. In a group with lots of beginners, at the beginning of the night, at the beginning of a medley: Long-lines-forward -and-back really should have a tune that goes 1-2-3-stop, 1-2-3-stop. Any place where it's important that couples stop swinging and get on to the next thing. Any place where shapes need to quickly coelesce out of thin air, do something, and then morph quickly into a new clear shape: Pass thru to ocean wave, Bal line , outside alle R 1/2, Bal line. Plus specialty moves like bucksaws and zigzags, where everybody needs to "get THERE, now STAY there, now get THERE" all at the same time or they get in each other's way. And there are some tunes with such good built in stops (Joys of Quebec, the B part) that it's a crying shame to waste them on something sinuous and connected. I personally see it graphically. Here's a mythical dance (don't worry who does what with whom, ok?): A1: Bal, pull by, alle L 1ce, alle R next 1ce A2 Long Lines fwd & back Swing in center B1 Down hall lines-of-4 Back, cast off B2 Chain R&L back And here's inside my head: A // , // , - - - - - - - -, - - - / - - - /, - - - / - - - - - - / / B - - - - - - / / - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -, - - - - - - - - The A parts definitely need a tune that comes in groups of 4, or the lines won't form and the swings will dribble into the down-the hall. The B part could use a 16-er, if it weren't for the cast off: since they have to come UP the hall AND cast off in one phrase, they better do their turning around at the END of the previous 8 bars, and the band better help them : Down 2 3 4 TURN as a couple, UP 2 3 4 cast off get ready to chain. Time for a French Canadian, or maybe a march. Saut de Lapin would be perfect. *** Give me the card, I will pair up the tunes. Tell me how long the phrases are -- "short and choppy in the A, long and connected in the B," and I will pair up the tunes. Give me a description that makes sense to YOU - "I need something that goes UH uh uh, UH uh uh, digga digga digga digga UH uh uh" and I will grin and match up the tunes. Or show me with your hands, or use really good adjectives - sprightly, brisk, sly - - or make tune comparisons, " something a lot like La Bastringue, but not." But tell me where all the balances are? "Beginning of A1, last 2 beats of A2, third beat of B1 but only for the ones.." and I will smile politely and say "can I see your card a sec?" And, God forbid, if you call a dance like my mythical one in a community hall full of Old-Home-Days beginners, and ask me to play the relentlessly driving old-time tune you heard Wild Asparagus play at the advanced-dancers night in the big city? I am gonna LIE to you, tell you I never heard of that tune, and say, "can I see your card a sec?" 'course, with certain callers, I do EXACTLY what you tell me, 'cause you already thought all of this out yourself, bless you, and you know who you are. I'll be really interested in feedback from all four people who actually read this whole thing. Cheers, Amy Cann ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 07:45:19 -0400 From: "Cynthia Phinney" Subject: Re: [Callers] The balance thing. To: "'Caller's discussion list'" Message-ID: <001901c7f3a0$1067bf20$326412c6@Fiddlewoods2> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Thanks for jumping in Amy. As both a caller and a musician myself (Oh - and also a dancer, FIRST a dancer, did I mention that) I love your description of this concept. The GATHER part is not quite the way I'd ever thought about it before but I can feel it as I read your descriptions. I also like the length of phrase concept - I've described that concept less accurately in the past with words like "flowing" (I'm thinking those would be long phrases) or I've simply described where there is some punctuation or asked for something "bouncy" (those would be lots of changes, short phrases). These are the kinds of things we talked about at the "caller musician connection" workshop that Chrissy Fowler organised with CDSS here in Maine last year and it was a great day and I hope for more opportunities like that in the future and also recommend taking advantage of anything like that that might happen wherever any of you are. -cynthia -----Original Message----- From: callers-bounces(a)sharedweight.net [mailto:callers-bounces@sharedweight.net] On Behalf Of Amy Cann Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 1:39 AM To: Caller's discussion list Subject: [Callers] The balance thing. Dead silence for weeks and then a four page rant? OK, I'm going to stop lurking and finally jump in. Brace yourself. I have never quite understood why *other* musicians want to know where the balances are. Sure, it's good to "spike" the balances in my playing, but I can do that ANYwhere in a tune - and if I can't, I ain't no fiddler. And sure it's good to know where the balances ARE, but I can get that by watching the dance - and if I'm not watching the dance, then I ain't no fiddler. Let me posit something: what we're really talking about here is LENGTH OF PHRASE. The one thing I want to know from a caller: how long are the phrases that you care about? The balances often mark the starts or ends of a phrase, but they're not always the actual issue. HUH? OK: As both a caller and fiddler/pianist, I find with many callers (I'll get to the exceptions later) that the fastest way to match the tune to the dance is to say - "hey, can I see that card a sec?" First, I get to check out everyone else's heiroglyphics, and second, I can see what's going on faster than anyone could ever explain it to me. And here's what I'm looking for: where do things stop? Well, not stop, more like.."gather." It takes 16 beats to get through an A. This is NOT the same thing as 16 steps. When you step, your weight is passing from one foot to the other. We take LOTS of steps in contradancing, but what we also get are lots of GATHERING moments, when we suck our weight together under us. Circle left = /step step step step /step step step step/ -- IF the next move is slide-left-along-the-lines. It also can = /step step step step /step step step GATHER / -- IF the next thing is going to be balance-the-circle. Think about it. Sometimes we gather ourselves, alone; sometimes in pairs, sometimes as a four person circle or line-of-four, wavy or not, and sometimes as a whole-room line. (We usually do this for one of two reasons: because we're about to go the OTHER way, or because we ARE going to go on, in a moment, in the same direction, but we're setting up some sort of delayed-gratification thing.) And often, without that clear gathering moment, the next thing won't work well. Think lines-forward-and-back: in some dances the line MUST suck itself together, snap into formation, BEFORE moving forward, or it won't have that satisfying clarity. NOW, tunes have places where they continue and places where they stop/gather too: Sometimes they go: deedle-deedle-noodle-noodle-deedle-noodle-doodle-needle for the whole time. Sometimes they go: deedle noodle CHUCK, deedle noodle CHUCK, chucka noodle chucka noodle YA CHA CHA! (hear the stops?) Another way to think of it: 16 beats could be 123stop 123stop 12345678 or it could be 1stop12345678910111213 stop or it could be.... you get it. NOW, the whole reason contradancing stays fresh (this my theory, and just my theory, but *I* believe it) is because even though the same people come every week, and the dances have a certain number of moves, and the band plays a limited number of tunes, the COMBINATION is never the same. Different partner, different neighbor. Different tune/dance pairing. Different 4+4 +8 tune layered over 8+2+2+4 dance. Imagine doing an allemande/balance/allemande/balance sequence to a tune that stops and starts right along WITH you. It can feel very satisfying, neatly packaged. Doing that same sequence while the tune keeps driving onwards? Now there's a delicious sense of urgency, gotta-catch-up. The better the dancers/caller/band, the more you can stretch the limits of that kind of interplay. HOWEVER, there are places where the dance stops/gathers, and the tune REALLY needs to do the same. In a group with lots of beginners, at the beginning of the night, at the beginning of a medley: Long-lines-forward -and-back really should have a tune that goes 1-2-3-stop, 1-2-3-stop. Any place where it's important that couples stop swinging and get on to the next thing. Any place where shapes need to quickly coelesce out of thin air, do something, and then morph quickly into a new clear shape: Pass thru to ocean wave, Bal line , outside alle R 1/2, Bal line. Plus specialty moves like bucksaws and zigzags, where everybody needs to "get THERE, now STAY there, now get THERE" all at the same time or they get in each other's way. And there are some tunes with such good built in stops (Joys of Quebec, the B part) that it's a crying shame to waste them on something sinuous and connected. I personally see it graphically. Here's a mythical dance (don't worry who does what with whom, ok?): A1: Bal, pull by, alle L 1ce, alle R next 1ce A2 Long Lines fwd & back Swing in center B1 Down hall lines-of-4 Back, cast off B2 Chain R&L back And here's inside my head: A // , // , - - - - - - - -, - - - / - - - /, - - - / - - - - - - / / B - - - - - - / / - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -, - - - - - - - - The A parts definitely need a tune that comes in groups of 4, or the lines won't form and the swings will dribble into the down-the hall. The B part could use a 16-er, if it weren't for the cast off: since they have to come UP the hall AND cast off in one phrase, they better do their turning around at the END of the previous 8 bars, and the band better help them : Down 2 3 4 TURN as a couple, UP 2 3 4 cast off get ready to chain. Time for a French Canadian, or maybe a march. Saut de Lapin would be perfect. *** Give me the card, I will pair up the tunes. Tell me how long the phrases are -- "short and choppy in the A, long and connected in the B," and I will pair up the tunes. Give me a description that makes sense to YOU - "I need something that goes UH uh uh, UH uh uh, digga digga digga digga UH uh uh" and I will grin and match up the tunes. Or show me with your hands, or use really good adjectives - sprightly, brisk, sly - - or make tune comparisons, " something a lot like La Bastringue, but not." But tell me where all the balances are? "Beginning of A1, last 2 beats of A2, third beat of B1 but only for the ones.." and I will smile politely and say "can I see your card a sec?" And, God forbid, if you call a dance like my mythical one in a community hall full of Old-Home-Days beginners, and ask me to play the relentlessly driving old-time tune you heard Wild Asparagus play at the advanced-dancers night in the big city? I am gonna LIE to you, tell you I never heard of that tune, and say, "can I see your card a sec?" 'course, with certain callers, I do EXACTLY what you tell me, 'cause you already thought all of this out yourself, bless you, and you know who you are. I'll be really interested in feedback from all four people who actually read this whole thing. Cheers, Amy Cann _______________________________________________ Callers mailing list Callers(a)sharedweight.net http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 08:42:50 -0400 From: Chris Weiler Subject: Re: [Callers] The balance thing. To: Caller's discussion list Message-ID: &lt;46E53BCA.7020900(a)weirdtable.org&gt; Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Amy Cann wrote: For those of you who didn't read all the way 'til the end, you may want === message truncated === --------------------------------- Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.