28 Sep
2013
28 Sep
'13
5:27 p.m.
The first couple times I danced this I copied it down, so I know that this was a version
of the original. I believe it was Carol Ormand who called the dance both times, but
I'm not certain.
Can anyone share their opinion on why the caller would have chosen to make the change in
the dance? orientation or flow?
Rocks & Dirt Erik Weberg Type: Contra Formation: Duple-Improper Level: Int
A1 -----------
Neighbor allemande Left 1-1/2 (8)
Women's Chain (8)
A2 -----------
Long lines, forward and back (8)
Ladies by the Right, Gents go round
Women allemande Right 1-1/2 (8) while gents Orbit CCW to the other side
B1 -----------
Partner balance and swing (16)
B2 -----------
Circle Left 3/4 (6)
Square thru to the new ( OR 3 place circular hey without hands )
Ngh Pull by Right - P Left - Ngh Right on to the next with your left
OR Pass 1st Ngh by the Right, Partner Left, Neighbor Right face the next for an alm
Left
original dance on Erick's site - A1 N B/S A2 Ladies Chain; Orbit {Ladies Al'd R
1-1/2 while men orbit ccw 1/2 way around}
~
When I dance, I cannot judge, I cannot hate, I cannot separate myself from life. I can
only be joyful and whole, that is why I dance. ~Hans Bos~
~
28 Sep
28 Sep
5:45 p.m.
My sense is when using a circular hey its more about flow in using the allemande...
Laur
West Michigan
________________________________
From: Laur <lcpgr(a)yahoo.com>
To: sharedweight <callers(a)sharedweight.net>
Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2013 5:27 PM
Subject: [Callers] rocks and dirt by Erik Weberg
The first couple times I danced this I copied it down, so I know that this was a version
of the original. I believe it was Carol Ormand who called the dance both times, but
I'm not certain.
Can anyone share their opinion on why the caller would have chosen to make the change in
the dance? orientation or flow?
Rocks & Dirt Erik Weberg Type: Contra Formation: Duple-Improper Level: Int
A1 -----------
Neighbor allemande Left 1-1/2 (8)
Women's Chain (8)
A2 -----------
Long lines, forward and back (8)
Ladies by the Right, Gents go round
Women allemande Right 1-1/2 (8) while gents Orbit CCW to the other side
B1 -----------
Partner balance and swing (16)
B2 -----------
Circle Left 3/4 (6)
Square thru to the new ( OR 3 place circular hey without hands )
Ngh Pull by Right - P Left - Ngh Right on to the next with your left
OR Pass 1st Ngh by the Right, Partner Left, Neighbor Right face the next for an alm
Left
original dance on Erick's site - A1 N B/S A2 Ladies Chain; Orbit {Ladies Al'd R
1-1/2 while men orbit ccw 1/2 way around}
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6:39 p.m.
Distinctive figure totally stolen from an English dance called
"Fenterlarick", incidentally. (As Erik would be the first to
acknowledge; I just like seeing old friends in these contexts, like the
poussette -> hey in "Joyride".)
As to the changes: maybe Carol had seen too many people go right , left,
right , left (Oops, left-hand balance, which of course you can do but if
you're not expecting it is awkward); maybe she thought
swing-chain-allemande might be a little too dizzy-making (even though it
nicely changes direction), maybe she thought the dance needed a moment
of poise (get yourself sorted out in long lines; don't reflexively chain
back when you should be allemanding.)
So it could be orientation or it could be flow. I guess I'd be hesitant
to make a change that removes the neighbor swing.
-- Alan
On 9/28/2013 2:27 PM, Laur wrote:
The first couple times I danced this I copied it down,
so I know that this was a version of the original. I believe it was Carol Ormand who
called the dance both times, but I'm not certain.
Can anyone share their opinion on why the caller would have chosen to make the change in
the dance? orientation or flow?
Rocks & Dirt Erik Weberg Type: Contra Formation: Duple-Improper Level: Int
A1 -----------
Neighbor allemande Left 1-1/2 (8)
Women's Chain (8)
A2 -----------
Long lines, forward and back (8)
Ladies by the Right, Gents go round
Women allemande Right 1-1/2 (8) while gents Orbit CCW to the other side
B1 -----------
Partner balance and swing (16)
B2 -----------
Circle Left 3/4 (6)
Square thru to the new ( OR 3 place circular hey without hands )
Ngh Pull by Right - P Left - Ngh Right on to the next with your left
OR Pass 1st Ngh by the Right, Partner Left, Neighbor Right face the next for an alm
Left
original dance on Erick's site - A1 N B/S A2 Ladies Chain; Orbit {Ladies Al'd R
1-1/2 while men orbit ccw 1/2 way around}
~
When I dance, I cannot judge, I cannot hate, I cannot separate myself from life. I can
only be joyful and whole, that is why I dance. ~Hans Bos~
~
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
29 Sep
29 Sep
1:01 a.m.
I called the variation tonight with the circular hey. And yes, it flows wonderfully that
way. I have called the original before and of course it's a great dance, but the
variation is also a lovely dance. Lots of flow and swirls. Fun to watch.
And I can't validate it was Carol with the variation, I just know I danced it twice
and recorded it that way and associated it with Carol.
That's great info Alan!
Laur
________________________________
From: Alan Winston <winston(a)slac.stanford.edu>
To: callers(a)sharedweight.net
Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2013 6:39 PM
Subject: Re: [Callers] rocks and dirt by Erik Weberg
Distinctive figure totally stolen from an English dance called
"Fenterlarick", incidentally. (As Erik would be the first to
acknowledge; I just like seeing old friends in these contexts, like the
poussette -> hey in "Joyride".)
As to the changes: maybe Carol had seen too many people go right , left,
right , left (Oops, left-hand balance, which of course you can do but if
you're not expecting it is awkward); maybe she thought
swing-chain-allemande might be a little too dizzy-making (even though it
nicely changes direction), maybe she thought the dance needed a moment
of poise (get yourself sorted out in long lines; don't reflexively chain
back when you should be allemanding.)
So it could be orientation or it could be flow. I guess I'd be hesitant
to make a change that removes the neighbor swing.
-- Alan
On 9/28/2013 2:27 PM, Laur wrote:
The first couple times I danced this I copied it
down, so I know that this was a version of the original. I believe it was Carol Ormand
who called the dance both times, but I'm not certain.
Can anyone share their opinion on why the caller would have chosen to make the change in
the dance? orientation or flow?
Rocks & Dirt Erik Weberg Type: Contra Formation: Duple-Improper Level: Int
A1 -----------
Neighbor allemande Left 1-1/2 (8)
Women's Chain (8)
A2 -----------
Long lines, forward and back (8)
Ladies by the Right, Gents go round
Women allemande Right 1-1/2 (8) while gents Orbit CCW to the other side
B1 -----------
Partner balance and swing (16)
B2 -----------
Circle Left 3/4 (6)
Square thru to the new ( OR 3 place circular hey without hands )
Ngh Pull by Right - P Left - Ngh Right on to the next with your left
OR Pass 1st Ngh by the Right, Partner Left, Neighbor Right face the next for an alm
Left
original dance on Erick's site - A1 N B/S A2 Ladies Chain; Orbit {Ladies Al'd R
1-1/2 while men orbit ccw 1/2 way around}
~
When I dance, I cannot judge, I cannot hate, I cannot separate myself from life. I can
only be joyful and whole, that is why I dance. ~Hans Bos~
~
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
28 Sep
28 Sep
11:38 p.m.
Gang,
From the gents momentum, the moves below do not flow if the gent does a courtesy turn:
Women's Chain (8)
A2 -----------
Long lines, forward and back (8)
The gents momentum is contrary to the lady going forward, therefore the flow for the gent
would the the opposite direction of the long lines. A flourish twirl does not have the
contrary move. For the lady the moves work but for the gent his momentum is on the wrong
foot and direction.
It is not clear why the changes, it is clear the changes cause a problem for the gents
role.
________________________________
30 Sep
30 Sep
9:51 p.m.
On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 2:27 PM, Laur <lcpgr(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
Can anyone share their opinion on why the caller would
have chosen to make
the change in the dance? orientation or flow?
It's hard to know for sure without asking Carol (or whoever it was that
changed it). Here are some reasons (and examples) I can think of for
variations to be created:
- Fix poor transitions (right and left thru->circle left, ladies
chain->next neighbor balance).
- Fix timing issues (swing ending in the middle of a phrase).
- Add things that are missing (no partner swing, no neighbor swing).
- Eliminate unwanted figures (a balance in a smooth dance, a circle right,
too many circle lefts).
- Make a dance easier to dance or to teach (use hands in the circular hey).
- Other aesthetic reasons (substituting balance/gypsy/dosido before a
swing).
Those who feel strongly enough about choreography to change dances to fit
their programs have some aesthetic by which they judge the new dance to be
better than the original, but different callers prioritize different
things. As Alan mentioned, some callers (myself included) put a high value
on a neighbor swing because dancers seem to like it. Perhaps Carol (or
whoever) values the transitions here more than the original, enough to
outweigh the lack of a neighbor swing.
What are the questionable transitions in the original? If the circular hey
is done without hands, the balance is no problem. But swing to ladies chain
is not the smoothest. And (I noticed when I coincidentally called this
dance) there are ladies who will accidentally try to chain back instead of
allemanding. But I think there's still that risk of confusion in the
revised dance, as the ladies have the same cue twice - the other lady
extending a right hand.
(For the record, I think I called it with the variation A1 gypsy and swing.
My reasons: it flows well, it feels like a good fit with that part of the
dance, and I hadn't called any gypsy and swings yet in my program.)
Yoyo Zhou
10:36 p.m.
to be clear, I don't know if it WAS Carol. it's a good dance.
And Yoyo - WOW - what a great analysis!!!
Laur
________________________________
From: Yoyo Zhou <yozhov(a)gmail.com To:
Laur <lcpgr(a)yahoo.com>om>; Caller's discussion list
<callers(a)sharedweight.net>
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 9:51 PM
Subject: Re: [Callers] rocks and dirt by Erik Weberg
On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 2:27 PM, Laur <lcpgr(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
Can anyone share their opinion on why the caller would have chosen to make the change in
the dance? orientation or flow?
It's hard to know for sure without asking Carol (or whoever it was that changed it).
Here are some reasons (and examples) I can think of for variations to be created:
- Fix poor transitions (right and left thru->circle left, ladies chain->next
neighbor balance).
- Fix timing issues (swing ending in the middle of a phrase).
- Add things that are missing (no partner swing, no neighbor swing).
- Eliminate unwanted figures (a balance in a smooth dance, a circle right, too many circle
lefts).
- Make a dance easier to dance or to teach (use hands in the circular hey).
- Other aesthetic reasons (substituting balance/gypsy/dosido before a swing).
Those who feel strongly enough about choreography to change dances to fit their programs
have some aesthetic by which they judge the new dance to be better than the original, but
different callers prioritize different things. As Alan mentioned, some callers (myself
included) put a high value on a neighbor swing because dancers seem to like it. Perhaps
Carol (or whoever) values the transitions here more than the original, enough to outweigh
the lack of a neighbor swing.
What are the questionable transitions in the original? If the circular hey is done without
hands, the balance is no problem. But swing to ladies chain is not the smoothest. And (I
noticed when I coincidentally called this dance) there are ladies who will accidentally
try to chain back instead of allemanding. But I think there's still that risk of
confusion in the revised dance, as the ladies have the same cue twice - the other lady
extending a right hand.
(For the record, I think I called it with the variation A1 gypsy and swing. My reasons: it
flows well, it feels like a good fit with that part of the dance, and I hadn't called
any gypsy and swings yet in my program.)
Yoyo Zhou
4069
days inactive
4072
days old
contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net
6 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
-
Alan Winston -
Dan Black -
Laur -
Yoyo Zhou