11 Sep
2013
11 Sep
'13
2:43 p.m.
Hello all,
I've started to become aware of a few trends in the community around the
Shared Weight Callers list:
1. The list volume has increased
2. The subject matter is increasingly focused on tiny details of the
calling experience, usually only of interest to someone who has been
calling for many, many years. And these details are debated at length
(increasing the volume of the list).
3. People are leaving. Not in mass droves, but a noticeable amount. And
some are telling me that the list does not serve their needs.
This list was started 9 years ago (next week!) with the express purpose
of supporting and encouraging the newer caller. An open forum where the
most basic of question was not only tolerated, but celebrated. We
succeeded in creating that community for many years, but lately, that
vision seems to have been lost along the way. It would be a shame to
lose that part of what made this group special.
Seth and I started this list, but all we did was start the ball rolling.
This is your community, your forum for discussion. I will support
whatever this list wants to become. I just want us to be conscious and
deliberate about deciding what it will be.
So, let's start a discussion about the Purpose of the List and the
future of Shared Weight. Here are some thoughts to consider:
A. Since there seems to be a split in the discussion, should we split
the list? On one side is experienced callers discussing master-level
details of calling, programming, teaching and history. On the other side
is the mentoring of newer callers who need help at the apprentice and
journeyman levels. We could start a master-callers(a)sharedweight.net list
quite easily. People could change their subscription based on their
interest.
B. If we keep this list as-is, how do we make it easy for someone to
determine what will be relevant to their level of interest? How do we
know when to ask someone to take their debate of a trivial issue off list?
C. How do we keep the experience of the list useful and relevant to the
most number of people at the widest range of experience levels?
Thanks to all of you for your participation, whether you post, or just
lurk. I love being a part of the traditional dance community and
especially part of our subset of dance callers.
Happy Dancing,
Chris Weiler
SharedWeight Founder/admin/moderator
Craftsbury, VT
11 Sep
11 Sep
3:30 p.m.
On 9/11/2013 11:43 AM, Chris Weiler (SW) wrote:
Hello all,
This list was started 9 years ago (next week!) with the express purpose
of supporting and encouraging the newer caller. An open forum where the
most basic of question was not only tolerated, but celebrated. We
succeeded in creating that community for many years, but lately, that
vision seems to have been lost along the way. It would be a shame to
lose that part of what made this group special.
It's possible that the original community of callers involved now have
another 9 years of experience under their belts and are moving on to
more advanced discussions. Same/similar group of members but with
evolving needs?
I'm a new member here, so am just speculating. I really appreciate the
existing level of detail and thoughtful discussion. It's been
consistently helpful and enlightening, and if there's something not
applicable to my current calling situation, I know where my "delete" key is.
So, let's start a discussion about the Purpose of
the List and the
future of Shared Weight. Here are some thoughts to consider:
A. Since there seems to be a split in the discussion, should we split
the list? On one side is experienced callers discussing master-level
details of calling, programming, teaching and history. On the other side
is the mentoring of newer callers who need help at the apprentice and
journeyman levels. We could start a master-callers(a)sharedweight.net list
quite easily. People could change their subscription based on their
interest.
I'm already following 2 lists, this one and trad-callers, and sometimes
the same discussion is running in parallel on both lists, which is
complex to follow. 3 would make it that much harder, though the
increased granularity of purpose might help the discussion threads stay
sorted better.
C. How do we keep the experience of the list useful
and relevant to the
most number of people at the widest range of experience levels?
From your vantage point over there at the admin side of things, what
sorts of discussions seem to be at the far ends of the curve, either on
the too-basic or too-advanced end?
Kalia
3:34 p.m.
I say keep one list. I too know where the delete key is.
--------------------
Lindsay Morris
CEO, TSMworks
Tel. 1-859-539-9900
lindsay(a)tsmworks.com
On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 3:30 PM, Kalia Kliban <kalia(a)sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 9/11/2013 11:43 AM, Chris Weiler (SW) wrote:
Hello all,
This list was started 9 years ago (next week!) with the express purpose
of supporting and encouraging the newer caller. An open forum where the
most basic of question was not only tolerated, but celebrated. We
succeeded in creating that community for many years, but lately, that
vision seems to have been lost along the way. It would be a shame to
lose that part of what made this group special.
It's possible that the original community of callers involved now have
another 9 years of experience under their belts and are moving on to more
advanced discussions. Same/similar group of members but with evolving
needs?
I'm a new member here, so am just speculating. I really appreciate the
existing level of detail and thoughtful discussion. It's been consistently
helpful and enlightening, and if there's something not applicable to my
current calling situation, I know where my "delete" key is.
So, let's start a discussion about the Purpose of the List and the
future of Shared Weight. Here are some thoughts
to consider:
A. Since there seems to be a split in the discussion, should we split
the list? On one side is experienced callers discussing master-level
details of calling, programming, teaching and history. On the other side
is the mentoring of newer callers who need help at the apprentice and
journeyman levels. We could start a
master-callers@sharedweight.**net<master-callers@sharedweight.net>list
quite easily. People could change their subscription based on their
interest.
I'm already following 2 lists, this one and trad-callers, and sometimes
the same discussion is running in parallel on both lists, which is complex
to follow. 3 would make it that much harder, though the increased
granularity of purpose might help the discussion threads stay sorted better.
C. How do we keep the experience of the list useful and relevant to the
most number of people at the widest range of
experience levels?
From your vantage point over there at the admin side of things, what sorts
of discussions seem to be at the far ends of the curve, either on the
too-basic or too-advanced end?
Kalia
______________________________**_________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/**mailman/listinfo/callers<http://www.shared…
3:42 p.m.
On 09/11/2013 03:34 PM, Lindsay Morris wrote:
I say keep one list. I too know where the delete key
is.
Agreed. And if volume is a problem for you, you can't be managing your
email properly.
I'm a fairly new member as well; I normally just lurk with the
occasional question (thanks for all the help over the last few days
everyone), and I've found this community extremely helpful. If some
people want to debate minutae that I don't care about, let them. It's no
skin off my back.
—Sam
--
Sam Whited
pub 4096R/EC2C9934
https://samwhited.com/contact
3:44 p.m.
My personal opinion is just to keep one list. Sometimes we callers being dance geeks like
to discuss some of the minute details of contra dance calling. And it is true that
sometimes discussions bleed over from the trad-callers list (which I think is supposed to
have somewhat of a different mission than this list), but having yet another list means
another list to keep track of, and you KNOW that if we have two lists that people will try
to post the same question to both lists from time to time.
Also, just because one is a long-time experienced caller doesn't mean that he/she has
stopped learning how to call. I have been calling for 10 years and I still continue to be
amazed at the breadth of information that some callers can share with us.
I think that the best way to keep this list going is to keep it as is, with minimal
management, and let discussions organically grow. I think we all need to keep in mind to
be respectful of other differences of opinion, and respectful of the people expressing
that opinion. I know that there are a lot of splits in contras these days, and we as
callers need to learn how to facilitate the needs of many types of dancers, from brand new
dancers to the weekend-dance gypsies.
And of course this board is very valuable in sharing choreographies, something that
callers both new and experienced make use of.
I don't see any need to split the list between one for new callers and one for
experienced callers. Would be interesting to know why those folks who have left decided
to leave.
Perry
________________________________
From: Chris Weiler (SW) <chris(a)sharedweight.net>
To: Shared Weight <callers(a)sharedweight.net>
Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 2:43 PM
Subject: [Callers] Purpose of the List
Hello all,
I've started to become aware of a few trends in the community around the
Shared Weight Callers list:
1. The list volume has increased
2. The subject matter is increasingly focused on tiny details of the
calling experience, usually only of interest to someone who has been
calling for many, many years. And these details are debated at length
(increasing the volume of the list).
3. People are leaving. Not in mass droves, but a noticeable amount. And
some are telling me that the list does not serve their needs.
This list was started 9 years ago (next week!) with the express purpose
of supporting and encouraging the newer caller. An open forum where the
most basic of question was not only tolerated, but celebrated. We
succeeded in creating that community for many years, but lately, that
vision seems to have been lost along the way. It would be a shame to
lose that part of what made this group special.
Seth and I started this list, but all we did was start the ball rolling.
This is your community, your forum for discussion. I will support
whatever this list wants to become. I just want us to be conscious and
deliberate about deciding what it will be.
So, let's start a discussion about the Purpose of the List and the
future of Shared Weight. Here are some thoughts to consider:
A. Since there seems to be a split in the discussion, should we split
the list? On one side is experienced callers discussing master-level
details of calling, programming, teaching and history. On the other side
is the mentoring of newer callers who need help at the apprentice and
journeyman levels. We could start a master-callers(a)sharedweight.net list
quite easily. People could change their subscription based on their
interest.
B. If we keep this list as-is, how do we make it easy for someone to
determine what will be relevant to their level of interest? How do we
know when to ask someone to take their debate of a trivial issue off list?
C. How do we keep the experience of the list useful and relevant to the
most number of people at the widest range of experience levels?
Thanks to all of you for your participation, whether you post, or just
lurk. I love being a part of the traditional dance community and
especially part of our subset of dance callers.
Happy Dancing,
Chris Weiler
SharedWeight Founder/admin/moderator
Craftsbury, VT
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
4:06 p.m.
On Wed, Sep 11, 2013, Chris Weiler (SW) wrote:
B. If we keep this list as-is, how do we make it easy for someone to
determine what will be relevant to their level of interest? How do
we know when to ask someone to take their debate of a trivial issue
off list?
C. How do we keep the experience of the list useful and relevant to
the most number of people at the widest range of experience levels?
By amount of time calling, I surely rank as one of the newest people
here (especially if you don't include square dance calling, which I
formally started just a month ago). I started calling contras less than
a year ago and have only been in front of the mic three or four times.
OTOH, I've been doing contra, square, and IFD for more than a quarter
century, and I'm an online junkie (probably 20 or 30 mailing lists,
though many are somewhat moribund and/or announce-only, plus another ten
still-active netnews groups (some of which are private)).
IOW, I'm inclined to the trivial minutiae even when I don't know
anything and especially when I do. ;-)
I guess my point is that it's hard to categorize people, let alone
discussions.
--
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6 http://rule6.info/
<*> <*> <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html
8:01 p.m.
My 0.02 is to keep one list. That said, I'd welcome us to apply some
self-monitoring for what we post. Besides the obvious trimming of included
material to just the pertinent bits, some other thoughts which might be
applied:
- If as a participant you notice it's just you and one or two others
continuing to post, consider taking it off list.
- If what you're doing is not really discussion-y (say the recent
request to collect/catalog all the moves - not meaning to single you out
Sam, that's just a great example) consider other tools to achieve that
(e.g.: a wiki or shared open google spreadsheet, etc.) and offer to post
back the results.
- If you find yourself making the same or similar points several times
across different threads, consider that the message may already have been
received.
- I'm sure others have some great additional suggestions.
Should we be able to agree to a set of list values/behaviors, then possibly
a periodic automatic reminder of them would help us stay on track?
It is the diversity/balance of voices I appreciate here. I hope we can see
that continue by keeping folks interested and involved to a level that
informs without overloading.
Thanks all for your participation,
Don
On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 4:06 PM, Aahz Maruch <aahz(a)pobox.com> wrote:
On Wed, Sep 11, 2013, Chris Weiler (SW) wrote:
B. If we keep this list as-is, how do we make it easy for someone to
determine what will be relevant to their level of interest? How do
we know when to ask someone to take their debate of a trivial issue
off list?
C. How do we keep the experience of the list useful and relevant to
the most number of people at the widest range of experience levels?
By amount of time calling, I surely rank as one of the newest people
here (especially if you don't include square dance calling, which I
formally started just a month ago). I started calling contras less than
a year ago and have only been in front of the mic three or four times.
OTOH, I've been doing contra, square, and IFD for more than a quarter
century, and I'm an online junkie (probably 20 or 30 mailing lists,
though many are somewhat moribund and/or announce-only, plus another ten
still-active netnews groups (some of which are private)).
IOW, I'm inclined to the trivial minutiae even when I don't know
anything and especially when I do. ;-)
I guess my point is that it's hard to categorize people, let alone
discussions.
--
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6
http://rule6.info/
<*> <*> <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
9:23 p.m.
I think one list makes the most sense and appreciate the suggestions that
have been made to reduce traffic a bit.
Another request: If you are replying to one person--for example, to thank
Joe for posting the answer to your question--please send it just to Joe.
Thanks to all who contribute to this list. I've been calling for years, but
still find it educational.
Bree Kalb
Carrboro NC
12 Sep
12 Sep
3:28 p.m.
Hi Chris,
I vote for keeping this one list. Maybe with the (very) occasional
gentle guidance notes from you.
Woody
On 9/11/2013 11:43 AM, Chris Weiler (SW) wrote:
I've started to become aware of a few trends in
the community around
the Shared Weight Callers list:
1. The list volume has increased
2. The subject matter is increasingly focused on tiny details of the
calling experience, usually only of interest to someone who has been
calling for many, many years. And these details are debated at length
(increasing the volume of the list).
3. People are leaving. Not in mass droves, but a noticeable amount.
And some are telling me that the list does not serve their needs.
4088
days inactive
4089
days old
contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net
9 comments
10 participants
participants (10)
-
Aahz Maruch -
Bill Baritompa -
Bree Kalb -
Chris Weiler (SW) -
Don Veino -
Kalia Kliban -
Lindsay Morris -
Perry Shafran -
Sam Whited -
Woody Lane