Hi John, thanks for all your comments. I like this swing at
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUiXStkCHGs from 0:05 to 0:15 - for
spacing -- and I'm going to introduce it at our next dance! Though what
I think Becky found interesting about the variation we're working on is
that it retains the "pointy hands", which can be useful.
The one thing that I was confused about when I read your message: you
say when you tried the swing variation our group has been experimenting
with (visual at
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ebotfe2jksbr3dqbjyiuf/Modified-Ballroom-Swin…
)
-- you say that you found the grip insufficient, for the arms that are
holding just above the elbow.
But in my mind, this hold that me and my partner are doing with his left
hand my right hand , is supposed to be the same as the hold you use in
this video of yours - (but in your case, your left hand and her right hand.)
Maybe I didn't execute it properly, but it is what I intended:
https://youtu.be/yUbi1B2Edk0?si=HL-3jgI95LtGZBQ_&t=198
Startsat 3:18.
Thoughts?
Also, is anyone able to answer my question to Winston -
Is it a given, due to something in the asymmetric nature of the hold,
that in this video referenced by Allan -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQ0R5iHT-l8 or in the photo I shared above via Dropbox,
that the Robin's arm will *always* go above the Lark's arm?
Or could the placement of the arms vary depending on the relative height of the two
dancing partners?
(for example with a 6' tall Lark and a 5' tall Robin, would the Robin's arm
still be above the Lark's?
Thanks all!
Kat K in Halifax
John Sweeney via Contra Callers
<mailto:contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net>
Thursday, March 14, 2024 7:23 AM
Hi Kat,
Yes, I thought you meant something like you show in your photo. When
you mentioned Jeff's photo I did wonder, as it is what I call a
Foreshortened Hold in my video and brings you closer together rather
than further apart.
I picked up the Foreshortened Hold from the cover of Zesty Contras and
love it. I was surprised when I analysed the 600 dancers at a contra
dance at The Flurry and realised that nobody else was using it!
We tried your Modified Ballroom Hold Swing and didn't feel that it
really worked. With my right arm underneath there didn't seem to be
enough connection to have a really good swing unless Karen gripped my
arm. I felt that my hand might slide down. With my right arm on top
Karen felt that it was pulling on her shoulder even though I wasn't
gripping - it was just awkward. So, sorry, but I won't be using that one.
Re all the references to sore arms/hands/wrists/etc. The biggest
problem is that people are told to "give weight". I don't want your
weight! People misunderstand and lean back or sideways. If people
control their own weight then all the connection has to do is counter
centrifugal force and that it not a lot inless you spin really fast.
I always start a Swing lesson by getting the dancers to Buzz on the
spot BY THEMSELVES. Then when they connect they keep their own balance
and weight.
I have had major operations on both my shoulders (too much Repetitive
Strain Injury from another style of dance that is taught badly, and
then lots of Aerials:
https://youtu.be/CJnL_Y63AnY?si=RqKHSw5MQmhiuIFT
- maybe I shouldn't have started doing those in my fifties!). Anyway,
I can't afford to let people damage my shoulders. With a good partner
I can Swing at high speeds with no problem. Whenever someone leans
back or sideways I just slow the Swing down and lessen my connection
so that they have to take their own weight or fall over.
Anyway, if you can get everyone to keep their own weight you will find
it is much less strain on your arm/hand/wrist.
The standard Quebecois Swing has the feet interleaved. They seem to do
it without any problem. It is just a different feel and takes some
getting used to.
Someone mentioned the challenges with being too close in a Ceilidh
Swing (
http://contrafusion.co.uk/SwingWorkshop.html#Ceilidh ) - you
could always try the Forearm Swing instead
(
http://contrafusion.co.uk/SwingWorkshop.html#Linked ) - same
principle, but further apart so no bodily contact.
Happy dancing,
John
John Sweeney, Dancer, England john(a)modernjive.com 01233 625 362 &
07802 940 574
http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent
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becky.liddle--- via Contra Callers
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Wednesday, March 13, 2024 10:20 PM
For me, the enforced intimacy is about the proximity of bodies and
lack of physical air space between them. The huge difference between a
swing in contra vs., say, agreeing to dance a waltz or a swing dance
with someone, is that by agreeing to dance you’re agreeing to swing
with EVERY opposite-role person in the line, not just the person you
asked to dance. That’s a much bigger commitment to physical
contact/intimacy than saying yes to one person.
As a side note, before we got rid of a lecherous dancer in our group a
few years ago, MANY women in our dance group chose their contra dance
line specifically to avoid having to swing with him. The most
important intervention was, of course, to establish a code of conduct
which we used to remove him from the dance group (when it became clear
he would not agree to change his behaviour). But for women (and
others, but it’s always been women who have said this to me over the
years), when they come to a dance not KNOWING whether there MIGHT be a
letch in the line, it is asking quite a lot to expect them to do a
ballroom swing with whoever comes at them. I am wondering whether the
modified ballroom hold might make contra feel safer, especially for
new dancers.
I’d love to hear what folks who have used both feel about the difference.
Becky
On Mar 13, 2024, at 4:34 PM, Julian Blechner
<juliancallsdances(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I would love to read elaboration / articulation on why a ballroom hold
feels more "intimate" than other holds?
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Julian Blechner via Contra Callers
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Wednesday, March 13, 2024 5:34 PM
I would love to read elaboration / articulation on why a ballroom hold
feels more "intimate" than other holds?
Is it a matter of the historical social attachment we have in our
minds with couples dances that use the hold, and romance in our culture?
Is it a physical proximity? (I find ceilidh holds to be closer,
crossed arms has my hands bearish their belly which has its own
intimacy to me, though sometimes barrel holds can be done with a bit
more space - though I wouldn't say the default)
Is it something else?
Maybe if we looked at the why, it'd give insight to what a solution to
an alternate swing hold and/or an adjusted mindset might entail?
In dance,
Julian Blechner
He/him
Western Mass
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