A kind of "clapping" I like a lot on Rory O'Mores is when you balance right
and left, slide right, and then on beats "7" and "8" you percussively
(but
without so much force that you hurt anyone!) connect hands in the new wave
with first your left hand and then your right. And the left/right
reverse when sliding back. It's a nice bit of connection, though it does
require good timing.
(This is different from clapping your own hands together on beats "7-and"
and "8", petronella-style)
Jeff
On Thu, May 23, 2024 at 2:30 PM Koren A. Wake via Contra Callers <
contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
As a dancer, I usually prefer not to clap myself, but
I usually don't mind
if other people clap for normal Petronellas. As a caller, I usually tell
the dancers that claps are optional, but when it's a cure-for-the-claps
type dance I do strongly encourage them *not* to clap and I point out how
the spin is designed to flow directly into the next move. In those cases, I
also usually ask the musicians to play smoother music so that the *music* doesn't
encourage clapping. And as a musician, I actually *love* when I can
predict when the dancers will clap, and can play with that (breaks, etc.).
In Seattle we've had a recent trend of some dancers expanding the
Petronella claps - deliberately clapping early or late or on off-beats (but
still rhythmic, just *playing with expectations*), to the point where
sometimes you can hear clapping on every beat throughout the move, even if
every individual dancer is only doing two claps. It's fun as a novelty
(even though it breaks the circle connection even more), and I do
occasionally participate, but only if the dance is otherwise very simple,
and only if the music seems to want it. I've seen that kind of thing come
and go in other scenes before, too, so I'm not *too* worried about it
taking over as an all-the-time thing.
All of that said, I completely agree with Maia that (a) clapping on Rory
O'More moves (and box circulates!) is trending up, and also (b) in my
opinion this is basically ALWAYS bad because it basically ALWAYS detracts
from reconnecting to the new wave in time to redirect into a satisfying
balance. One of the workshop ideas that I've been developing is on wavy
line balances and connections, and I think this is one of the points that
I'll try to hit!
To answer Maia's original question, I can absolutely see how that "it's
always bad because it detracts from reconnecting" opinion could also apply
to Petronellas in exactly the same way. I would posit that by now we are so
used to the claps in that specific context, that we don't think about how
much less rushed the connect-and-balance action *could* be if we instead
actively reconnected *before *we balance the ring again. I suspect that's
the root of the curmudgeonliness of some (or most?) of the folks who object
to claps on principal - many of them may be long-time dancers who *do* remember
what we're missing.
And on the other hand, I would *also* argue that since I define a balance
(generally) as two steps together to create a compression connection that
peaks on beat 2 (followed by two steps apart to create a tension connection
that peaks on beat 4, to be ready to spring into whatever comes next), it
doesn't actually matter whether your hands are connected before beat 1
unless you *need* tension before beat 1 to help you get *into* the
balance together on one and two (as in Rory waves, where you need to stop &
redirect your outward momentum so that you can begin to balance together).
Whereas when you're reconnecting in a Petronella circle, or going into a
regular balance and swing, you generally don't have so much momentum from
the spin that you need the new connection in order to redirect into the
balance. In those cases I think it's *fine* to just start moving towards
each other on 1, as long as you have that compression connection by the
time beat 2 arrives.
OK I have definitely rambled enough here! Hope any of this is useful
and/or food for thought.
Koren Wake
(Seattle WA, dancer, caller, musician)
On Thu, May 23, 2024 at 9:36 AM David Chandler via Contra Callers <
contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
As a very old dancer, I have 2 objections to the
clap:
1. I enjoy flow and slight changes in momentum. I can't think of a
sequence off-hand where there isn't at least a slight pause and change in
momentum caused by clapping. If balance and swing is the next move, instead
of turning directly to one's partner and getting the balance underway, one
pauses for a second to smile at one's neighbors after such a satisfying
moment, and to think about what comes next. With other sequences the
disruption is more marked - I dislike standing ready to take hands and
circle while others are clapping. Etc. There is no way an action that
requires stopping movement and standing in one place can not interfere with
what comes next - I assume that most people enjoy clapping more than
momentum. I understand your feeling about clapping in a Rory, but assume
that the clapping will spread and become universal for that as well.
Different strokes...
2. People learn the clap by osmosis, so everyone claps for everything,
whether it is disruptive to the next move or not (if one assumes it can not
be disruptive). If dancers were experienced enough to think about what they
are doing, so they only did it when the effect was minimal, that would be
marginally better - but they aren't, for the most part.
It is a lost cause. I can't imagine what could make clapping stop once it
starts - but we'll see. Perhaps clapping will spread to so many points in
the dance (after heys!) that everyone says, "Enough already!" and agrees to
ban clapping. Or dancing will just be different, changed as it has been so
many times in the past.
Curmudgeonly yours,
David
On Wed, May 22, 2024 at 11:50 AM Maia McCormick via Contra Callers <
contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
tldr: those of you who are anti-Petronella claps
(in general, not just
in specific cases where they interrupt flow from the spin into the next
move), I want to understand why!
Clapping on Petronella turns has been the overwhelming norm ever since I
started dancing, but I know that it wasn't always this way, and that some
folks vehemently dislike it. Well recently I've noted the (baffling??
inexplicable??) rise of clapping after the spin on Rory O'Moore's, which
makes my blood boil (it's so satisfying to catch hands in the new wave out
of the spin, why would you ever NOT do that??), and it's making me think
more about Petronella claps.
Clapping on a Rory bugs me so much because it interrupts the momentum of
spin-and-catch-hands. I'll admit that I don't understand the objection to
Petronella claps, at least through that lens. Like certainly, in a
specifically Cure for the Claps-type* dance (with e.g. Petronella spin into
allemande left, Petronella spin into swing, etc.), clapping interrupts the
momentum, and it's way more satisfying to spin directly into the next move.
But given a bog standard "Petronella, Petronella, balance and swing" or
similar, I don't feel like the claps interrupt the momentum or disrupt
transitions, and in fact are a nice fun way to fill space.
To be clear, the above isn't an argument in favor of Petronella claps,
just me explaining where I'm coming from. So now we come to my question:
1. *those of you who are anti-Petronella claps, can you explain why?* I
want to understand! Is it a satisfying momentum thing that I've just never
experienced because I'm so used to clapping? Dedication to historical
accuracy? Something else entirely?
2. *what dance(s) would you use to make your case to a contemporary
contra hall, that aren't explicitly written as Cure for the Claps dances?*
Petronella
spin to a swing feels great, and of *course* you shouldn't clap there
(although some folks inexplicably do, sigh)—but if you'd prefer that we
didn't clap even in a dance like Tica Tica Timing, then a CftC dance isn't
the whole story. If you had the infinite good will of a contemporary contra
hall, and were able to say to the dancers "don't clap on the Petronellas in
this one and just pay attention to how nice it feels to X and how
satisfying it is to Y", what dance would you use, what things would you
tell the dancers to clue into, etc. to make your case? (And what would you
ask the band for?)
Thanks as always for your expertise!
Cheers,
Maia
* Cure for the Claps contra: a dance that discourages clapping during
the Petronella turn, often by putting moves directly after the Petronella
that flow nicely from a spin. May be intentional or incidental. See e.g.: The
Cure for the Claps
<https://www.ibiblio.org/contradance/thecallersbox/dance.php?id=10364>
(Bob Isaacs), Becket in the Kitchen
<https://www.ibiblio.org/contradance/thecallersbox/dance.php?id=17>
(Becky Hill)
--
Maia McCormick (she/her)
917.279.8194
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