6 Aug
2024
6 Aug
'24
10:44 p.m.
I’m seeing only one actual contra dance move being suggested as a No-No
[shadow swing, separate controversy], and the rest are transitions.
Love it! I’m all about transitions!
Penn Fix used to do a dance camp workshop called “Gagged by a Contra”,
which included transitions that an experienced dancer might find, at first
glance, to be awkward. But inexperienced dancers had no problem feeling the
flow. The point of enlightenment being, of course, that expectation could
be the problem.
Examples:
- swing into a RH chain: smooth it out by adjusting the timing & direction
of the ejection from the swing to “aim” toward the chaIn across
- RH chain into swing: evolve the courtesy turn into a swing [can be lots
of fun if it’s your partner]
- RH hey into swing: another “melt-down”
There are many examples that experienced dancers just do automatically, and
lead their partners smoothly from one move into the next. And demonstrate
why “Lead” and “Follow” are not role names in contra dancing, but instead a
relationship between dancers of different experience, attitude, and intent
(but that’s another topic and another discussion)
But some transitions would never ever be even remotely approaching the
possibility of being suggested as perhaps maybe being considered by the
Olympic Committee.
I guess I’m suggesting that we reject “illegal” dance move transitions as
have been suggested, and only consider “uncomfortable” transitions.
Maybe rule as "illegal" moves where the hand is already busy, like "RH
star
this couple, then RH star the next".
Yet there are popular dances that include just that kind of feature: moving
a RH star with one 4-some to a RH star with another pair, moving as a pair
from one star to another. GAACK!
"Comfortable" transitions would be those the dance flow and the music
suggest. That leads into a future post about contra dancing degenerating
into the MUC
[sorry, MUC == Modern Urban Contra]
On Tue, Aug 6, 2024 at 6:09 PM <contracallers-request(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: [External] Re: Choreographic No-Nos (Neal Schlein)
2. Re: [External] Re: Choreographic No-Nos (Angela DeCarlis)
3. Re: [External] Re: Choreographic No-Nos (Julian Blechner)
4. Re: [External] Re: Choreographic No-Nos (Elizabeth Bloom Albert)
5. Re: [External] Re: Choreographic No-Nos (Elizabeth Bloom Albert)
6. Re: [External] Re: Choreographic No-Nos (Tepfer, Seth)
7. Re: [External] Re: Choreographic No-Nos (Alexandra Deis-Lauby)
8. Re: [External] Re: Choreographic No-Nos (Elizabeth Bloom Albert)
9. Re: [External] Re: Choreographic No-Nos (Maia McCormick)
10. Re: [External] Re: Choreographic No-Nos (Julian Blechner)
11. Re: [External] Re: Choreographic No-Nos (Mac Mckeever)
12. Re: [External] Re: Choreographic No-Nos (Robert Livingston)
13. Re: [External] Re: Choreographic No-Nos (Claire Baffaut)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2024 01:14:28 -0600
From: Neal Schlein <nschlein(a)gmail.com>
Subject: [Callers] Re: [External] Re: Choreographic No-Nos
To: sjapartments(a)gmail.com
Cc: New Contra Callers List <contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
Message-ID:
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I agree with Jonathan about your existing list, and think that almost any
sequence CAN be used if done with knowledgeable intent.
However, for the general list of things to avoid I would nominate what I
like to call “fudge down the line,” which is any adjustment that a) happens
solely because the sequence doesn’t fully progress the couples and b) does
not flow naturally from the existing movement. (This most often happens in
Beckett dances or those substantially in Beckett formation; examples
include a 2 count sideways slide along the line or a slightly angled right
and left thru.)
Notably, the 4 beat slide in “With Thanks to the Dean” and similar dances
would not count because they are full and discrete actions that are
specifically
accounted for in the flow and timing.
Neal Schlein
Librarian, MSLIS
On Mon, Aug 5, 2024 at 10:28 PM Michael Fuerst via Contra Callers <
contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
dances
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Depending on the flow of the dance, balance and
box the gnat can often
replace dsd and shoulder rounds 1 1/2
On Mon, Aug 5, 2024 at 11:17 PM Maia McCormick via Contra Callers <
contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> I don't have Bob's list handy, but I cribbed heavily from it to make
this
> (much less extensive) list of figures +
timings
> <https://contra.maiamccormick.com/assets/pdfs/esc-choreo-figures.pdf>,
> in case it's useful to anyone!
>
> (This reminds me of some more things I don't like, ha. Circle L and pass
> through to swing -- IME the swing always gets truncated. Dosido 1.5x and
> right shoulder round 1.5x don't quiiite fit in 8 counts of music and are
> often frustrating. And I don't call couples' dosidos anymore, they're a
> pain to execute correctly unless everyone in the hall is EXTREMELY on
top
> of it.)
> --
> Maia McCormick (she/her)
> 917.279.8194
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 6, 2024 at 12:02 AM Joe Harrington <
contradancerjoe(a)gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Is Bob Isaacs in the house? He has a giant spreadsheet with every
>> possible move transition and a count of the number of times it occurs
in
a
>> set of dances that now numbers in the
hundreds or maybe a lot more.
It’s
>> interesting which unlikely combinations
do occur and which rarely do.
I
>> hope this someday sees the light of day.
>>
>> —jh—
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 5, 2024 at 11:29 PM Maia McCormick via Contra Callers <
>> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Jeff, impressively bad, well done!
>>>
>>> My biggest pet peeve is a RH chain (or promenade, or other move with a
>>> CCW courtesy turn) into a circle L—though this is a very of-the-moment
>>> style preference, as I know plenty of the classic dances have this
combo.
>>> (Likewise for dances where just the
1s do a figure while the 2s stand
>>> around, doubly so if the dance doesn’t alternate active couples.)
>>>
>>> Long lines followed by a chain is quite idiomatic—and probably in part
>>> because of the strength that idiom, a chain (or other courtesy turn
figure)
>>> followed by long lines drives me up a
wall.
>>>
>>> I don’t love long lines into a circle—I’ll tolerate it if the rest of
>>> the dance is really exceptional, ehhhh.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Maia McCormick (she/her)
>>> 917.279.8194
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 5, 2024 at 10:31 PM Jeff Kaufman via Contra Callers <
>>> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Balance neighbor (4), swing partner (12)
>>>>
>>>> Ones dosido below while twos seesaw above (8).
>>>>
>>>> Long lines forward (4), swing on the side (8), long lines back (4).
>>>>
>>>> Circle left 1x (6) pass through (2)
>>>>
>>>> Jeff
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Aug 5, 2024 at 9:51 PM Tepfer, Seth via Contra Callers <
>>>> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> - A right chain INTO a swing
>>>>> - A swing into a circle right
>>>>> - Standard right shoulder hey into a swing
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Plenty other bad flow examples
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Seth Tepfer, MBA, CSM, PMP (he, him, his)
>>>>> Senior IT Manager, Emory Primate Center
>>>>>
>>>>> <
https://outlook.office.com/bookwithme/user/fcd3f5d71da848759228584d1a49babd…
Book
>>>>> time to meet with me
>>>>> <
https://outlook.office365.com/owa/calendar/SethTepfer@mscloud.emory.net/boo…
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> *From:* Jonathan Sivier via Contra Callers <
>>>> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
>>>> *Sent:* Monday, August 5, 2024 9:48 PM
>>>> *To:* New Contra Callers List <contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>>>> *Subject:* [External] [Callers] Re: Choreographic No-Nos
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't agree with your list. Yes, swings on the first half of
a
>>>>> phrase are challenging and I might try to avoid them. There are
>>>>> with this that generally work
fine, especially if the caller is
aware of
>>>>> the potential issue and
teaches and calls accordingly. The
do-si-do across
>>>>> can be a bit awkward in a
crowded line, but only if everyone is
doing the
>>>>> do-si-do. If only the
1's or 2's are doing it then there is no
problem.
>>>>> Shadow swings seem to be a
personal preference or dislike and not
really a
>>>>> choreographic issue. I
actually think that a right chain after a
swing can
>>>>> work very well. If you end
the swing with the pointy hands
pointing across
>>>>> then the right hands of the
right hand dancers are right there
ready to
>>>>> pull by. I suppose you might
say there is a momentum change, but
that can
>>>>> be very welcome in a dance
where everything seems to be traveling
the same
>>>>> way. Not every dance has to
have continuous motion in the same
direction
>>>>> all the time. I danced a
dance with that set of figures just last
Friday
>>>>> and I was thinking to myself
how well it seemed to work.
>>>>>
>>>>> So I see #1 and #3 as more of a challenge than a problem. #4 is a
>>>>> personal preference and #2 seems like a perfectly fine transition
between
>>> figures.
>>>
>>> Jonathan
>>>
>>> On 8/5/2024 7:37 PM, Michael Fuerst via Contra Callers wrote:
>>> > I am accumulating a list of figures, or figure sequence that
>>> significant dance writers (not necessarily a majority) consider
>>> Choreographic No-Nos
>>> > My list so far:
>>> > 1. do-si-do across
>>> > 2. right chain after a swing
>>> > 3 short swings on an odd phrase
>>> > 4. Shadow swings
>>> > Does anyone have further suggestions?
>>>
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