[Callers] Re: Modified ballroom swing position: seeking more conversation and info

Hi all, The Swing Workshop videos are all available at http://contrafusion.co.uk/SwingWorkshop.html - 20 variations! Plus lots of hints and tips on good technique, and how to signal or initiate a certain type of Swing. At the bottom of that page you will find links to more articles about Swings. I would never recommend that the person who’s arm is on top (Raven/Lady) tries to reach the shoulder blade. The lower arm can easily reach the shoulder blade, the upper arm can’t. It is just basic physics. Lots more on that subject at http://contrafusion.co.uk/LadysLeftHand.html If both people relax and the left-hand person connects with their hand on the right-hand person’s shoulder blade then that is enough connection for a good Swing. I always emphasise that you PLACE your hand on the shoulder blade, you don’t put pressure on it, or pull it towards you. Centrifugal force will do that anyway if you build up enough speed. The failure to relax and putting pressure on any other part of your partner (hang, squeeze, clamp, grip) are what cause most problems. I start every Swing Workshop for experienced dancers with asking them to relax and then telling their partner about anything that is causing pressure or discomfort. Many experienced dancers need this! I hope some of that helps. Please could someone post a picture or video of the modified ballroom hold that is being discussed? Or send it to me and I will add it to my Web site with a link so that people can see it. Thanks. Happy dancing, John John Sweeney, Dancer, England john(a)modernjive.com 01233 625 362 & 07802 940 574 http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent *From:* Becky Liddle via Contra Callers < contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; *Sent:* 13 March 2024 14:17 *To:* contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net *Subject:* [Callers] Modified ballroom swing position: seeking more conversation and info In the discussion about some men being uncomfortable doing ballroom dance hold swing with other men, the modified ballroom hold (hand above elbow of partner instead of on robin’s shoulder) was mentioned. In this discussion, much has been said about men who don’t want to do ballroom hold with other men, but what nobody has mentioned yet is the scads of women (both straight and queer) who have long been uncomfortable dancing ballroom swing with men (or often just with particular men). *I am intrigued by this modified ballroom swing idea because it might solve many problems at once*. I have two simultaneous (and conflicting) emotional responses to men uncomfortable swinging with other men: The ungenerous one is: "As a lesbian I had to get over my discomfort swinging with you in order to participate in the joy of contra. If I can do it, you can do it." But more importantly (and more generously): *We’d like everyone to be as comfortable at contra dances as is reasonably feasible*. To that end, I am very interested in this idea of the modified ballroom hold. It might solve MANY different problems. Here are a few that come to mind: 1. The enforced intimacy problem: this is not just a problem with straight men being uncomfortable swinging with other men. There is a lot of forced intimacy in the ballroom hold. Maybe that intimacy is not the best thing to force on *anyone*?. Modified ballroom swing would help with the problem of not wanting enforced closeness/intimacy with others for all kinds of reasons: keeping distance from the lecherous dancer who uses the ballroom hold as an excuse for unwanted intimacy; but also simply to provide a bit of space for folks who simply aren’t comfortable being that close to ANYBODY. I recently struck up a conversation with a new dancer who was leaving early (because we need to know why we’re losing potential dancers) and she said “It just feels too intimate.” She didn’t say too intimate swinging with men or with women. Just “too intimate” and I got the definite feeling that it was the enforced close hold (with *everyone*) that was difficult for her. I wonder if we would have lost her if we used the modified ballroom swing (hand above elbow instead of on shoulder). 2. There are other difficulties with the ballroom hold: sometimes there is simply not enough room: short arms or large girth can make it difficult to reach the back of the shoulder of the other partner at times, and this leaves the Lark in the uncomfortable/dangerous position of “where do I put my hand now?” While trying to avoid the “accidental side boob graze” issue. 3. Speaking of which, is nobody else out there having trouble with this “side boob graze” problem with the ballroom hold? I’m a lesbian who dances the Lark role because of knee and hip issues. At least once/evening when moving into or out of the ballroom hold I accidentally graze the side of my partner’s breast. If I were straight I wouldn’t worry about it. But as a lesbian my mind always leaps to “what if she thinks I did that on purpose?” *Do straight men not also have this problem?? Why is nobody talking about this??* If the robin is female-presenting, the back of the robin’s shoulder is dangerously close to the side of her breast. Which means (a) it’s easy for a sleaze to cop a feel and pass it off as an accident, and (b) it’s easy for a lesbian or straight man to truly accidentally graze and then worry that they’ll be *perceived *as a sleaze. The elbow hold would solve both of these problems. 4. The robin clamping down their arm problem: Larks, have you ever danced with a robin who clamps down their arm on your wrist during the swing? Again, elbow hold would solve this. 5. The problem of robins dancing backwards when swinging: I have never danced the modified ballroom hold, but I’d like to know from folks who do: does it solve the problem of many robins feeling like they need to dance backwards when swinging? On the occasions when I do dance robin (usually because I’m pairing with a newbie who is dancing lark) I often find myself skittering backwards in the swing, instead of both of us walking/dancing forward. I’m not experienced enough as a robin to fully understand this phenomenon, but I think it has to do with the closeness and rigidity of some Larks’ hold in the ballroom swing. Question for folks who have used the elbow hold: does this hold solve this problem and allow the robin to dance forward instead of backward in the swing? I am particularly interested in this issue because I am about to move from Toronto (where the ballroom hold is firmly established) to an island off the coast of Vancouver (Bowen Island) where, if I want to continue to dance, I will have to start my own contra dance. This conversation has made me wonder whether I should start that group with the modified ballroom hold to solve many of these problems. *I’d love to hear from others who have used this swing about the pros and cons *(if any) and any other advice you’d have for someone starting a dance using this swing hold. Thanks!! Becky Liddle (Note: my email is changing from beckyliddle(a)bell.net to becky.liddle(a)icloud.com ) _______________________________________________ Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net