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Modified ballroom swing position: seeking more conversation and info

by Becky Liddle

In the discussion about some men being uncomfortable doing ballroom dance hold swing with other men, the modified ballroom hold (hand above elbow of partner instead of on robin’s shoulder) was mentioned. In this discussion, much has been said about men who don’t want to do ballroom hold with other men, but what nobody has mentioned yet is the scads of women (both straight and queer) who have long been uncomfortable dancing ballroom swing with men (or often just with particular men). I am intrigued by this modified ballroom swing idea because it might solve many problems at once. I have two simultaneous (and conflicting) emotional responses to men uncomfortable swinging with other men: The ungenerous one is: "As a lesbian I had to get over my discomfort swinging with you in order to participate in the joy of contra. If I can do it, you can do it." But more importantly (and more generously): We’d like everyone to be as comfortable at contra dances as is reasonably feasible. To that end, I am very interested in this idea of the modified ballroom hold. It might solve MANY different problems. Here are a few that come to mind: 1. The enforced intimacy problem: this is not just a problem with straight men being uncomfortable swinging with other men. There is a lot of forced intimacy in the ballroom hold. Maybe that intimacy is not the best thing to force on anyone?. Modified ballroom swing would help with the problem of not wanting enforced closeness/intimacy with others for all kinds of reasons: keeping distance from the lecherous dancer who uses the ballroom hold as an excuse for unwanted intimacy; but also simply to provide a bit of space for folks who simply aren’t comfortable being that close to ANYBODY. I recently struck up a conversation with a new dancer who was leaving early (because we need to know why we’re losing potential dancers) and she said “It just feels too intimate.” She didn’t say too intimate swinging with men or with women. Just “too intimate” and I got the definite feeling that it was the enforced close hold (with everyone) that was difficult for her. I wonder if we would have lost her if we used the modified ballroom swing (hand above elbow instead of on shoulder). 2. There are other difficulties with the ballroom hold: sometimes there is simply not enough room: short arms or large girth can make it difficult to reach the back of the shoulder of the other partner at times, and this leaves the Lark in the uncomfortable/dangerous position of “where do I put my hand now?” While trying to avoid the “accidental side boob graze” issue. 3. Speaking of which, is nobody else out there having trouble with this “side boob graze” problem with the ballroom hold? I’m a lesbian who dances the Lark role because of knee and hip issues. At least once/evening when moving into or out of the ballroom hold I accidentally graze the side of my partner’s breast. If I were straight I wouldn’t worry about it. But as a lesbian my mind always leaps to “what if she thinks I did that on purpose?” Do straight men not also have this problem?? Why is nobody talking about this?? If the robin is female-presenting, the back of the robin’s shoulder is dangerously close to the side of her breast. Which means (a) it’s easy for a sleaze to cop a feel and pass it off as an accident, and (b) it’s easy for a lesbian or straight man to truly accidentally graze and then worry that they’ll be perceived as a sleaze. The elbow hold would solve both of these problems. 4. The robin clamping down their arm problem: Larks, have you ever danced with a robin who clamps down their arm on your wrist during the swing? Again, elbow hold would solve this. 5. The problem of robins dancing backwards when swinging: I have never danced the modified ballroom hold, but I’d like to know from folks who do: does it solve the problem of many robins feeling like they need to dance backwards when swinging? On the occasions when I do dance robin (usually because I’m pairing with a newbie who is dancing lark) I often find myself skittering backwards in the swing, instead of both of us walking/dancing forward. I’m not experienced enough as a robin to fully understand this phenomenon, but I think it has to do with the closeness and rigidity of some Larks’ hold in the ballroom swing. Question for folks who have used the elbow hold: does this hold solve this problem and allow the robin to dance forward instead of backward in the swing? I am particularly interested in this issue because I am about to move from Toronto (where the ballroom hold is firmly established) to an island off the coast of Vancouver (Bowen Island) where, if I want to continue to dance, I will have to start my own contra dance. This conversation has made me wonder whether I should start that group with the modified ballroom hold to solve many of these problems. I’d love to hear from others who have used this swing about the pros and cons (if any) and any other advice you’d have for someone starting a dance using this swing hold. Thanks!! Becky Liddle (Note: my email is changing from beckyliddle(a)bell.net <mailto:beckyliddle@bell.net> to becky.liddle(a)icloud.com <mailto:becky.liddle@icloud.com> )

7 months, 3 weeks

The Weaving Way

by Louise Siddons

Hi all, I have a note to myself from pre-pandemic times about a square-within-a-square called The Weaving Way. I have no other information about it, and searching the archives of this list and the trad callers list produced no useful results, so… I turn to all of you. Do you know this dance, and if so, are you willing to share? Thanks very much, Louise.

7 months, 3 weeks

Digest

by Kathryn Bowman

Can I get a digest instead of individual emails? Kathryn Bowman

7 months, 3 weeks

Looking for contra dances that are more difficult .......

by Michael Fuerst

... to teach to reasonably experienced dancers than they are for them to dance.

7 months, 3 weeks

Re: April Fools fun

by steve Pike

As mentioned earlier, know your crowd. With some I can say with a grin “What did you expect what you booked me to call on April 1?” and we can all have a good time. With others, not so much, so use “Fool-ish” dances sparingly. Some of my usual, easy enough for most crowds, Foolish tricks, include: Left hand chain: Any dance with a full chain (e.g Summer Sunshine <https://www.ibiblio.org/contradance/thecallersbox/dance.php?id=49>), alternate full left hand chain (formerly Gent’s chain, from the usual side), with the standard full right hand chain.) I’ll often use this early if I have a left hand chain later in the program, teaching the LH chain first, demo-ing if necessary. Swing the wrong way: Morning Star <https://www.ibiblio.org/contradance/thecallersbox/dance.php?id=3498> or here <https://www.ibiblio.org/contradance/thecallersbox/dance.php?id=3498> (Actives Balance Swing CW as usual, then Bal and Swing CCW, “Ideally with the 'other hands joined’ in waltz position, with the left foot in front for the buzz step --- or some other way you can work it out!”) Amazing how hard it is for even many experienced dancers - think about how new dancers must feel! Can alternate 1s 2s as the actives, and dance proper or not. What, no progression? Teach (1 or no walkthrough) and call a Becket A1 Slide left and Circle L dance without the slide left the first 2 or 3 times through…”same 4, circle left 3/4…” before, as some dancers catch on and start to murmur, “April Fools! This time, slide left and circle…” An Alternating Dance, esp Sun Dance and Moon Dance. Robert Cromartie. Alternates A2 Larks BS in middle with A2 Robins BS in middle, with some alternating tweaks to A1 and B2 to make it work. Or other two similar dances, maybe 1 version 4X, then spring the other version 4X then 2/2, then 1/1 e.g Hey Man <https://www.ibiblio.org/contradance/thecallersbox/dance.php?id=12333>, or a Jed’s Reel/Edna’s Reel medley A real dance (not much foolish except for the A2 which give those that only dance that lefthand/Larks/Gents role a chance to experience the lovely chain to hey combination): Chain of Fools, Steve Pike A1 BSN A2 Left hand chain to P, 1/2 hey (those who chained - Larks - pass left shoulder to start, NR, they pass L in middle) B1 P BS (or RSR/Swing) B2 Cir L 3/4, PT, next N DsD ( alt: Cir L 3/4, Bal, PT…) Steve Pike Mequon, WI

7 months, 3 weeks

April Fools fun

by Timothy Klein

I have the pleasure this year of calling the Knoxville contra dance on Monday, April 1st ... occasionally remembered as April Fools Day. I'm taking the approach of exploring the spirit of the Fool -- challenging our assumptions and traditions and reminding us to smile, in spite of ourselves if necessary. In choosing/crafting my program, I'm looking for a balance of different and fun, of course. What foolish dances have you done in the past? Timothy Knoxville, TN P.S. Here's my "concept" list: * Reverse progression ("which way is up?") * Contra mixer ("who needs a partner?") * Left/Lark chain ("why do Robins chain and Larks allemand?") * 3 face 3 formations ("what's a partner?") * Crooked tunes ("why is everything 64 beats?) * No swing ("how far can I go before the dancers burn me at the stake?")

7 months, 3 weeks

Favorite Dances by or for David Kaynor?

by Don Veino

Hi, I'm calling a session at NEFFA next month where we're honoring David Kaynor's contribution in music and dance. The band has a relationship with David and will be playing his music. I've searched for David's dances and have several I've called before. What I'm seeking are recommendations for DK dances that are particular favorites of yours. Harder to search for are dances written to honor David. For instance, David's Guiding Star by Steve Zakon-Anderson - should you have any such favorites I'd be happy to hear of those too! Our slot is the penultimate contra session of the weekend, so solid sequences without significant complications will rule. Thanks! Don Among those classics and others I already have are: The Baby Rose, Young Adult Rose, Excretion Reel, Terror on Takeoff, Cherokee Shuffle, The Dog's Breakfast, Paul's Line, Hands of Brass, Mary Cay's Reel plus Steve Z-A's dance above and one I wrote for David too (Fiddler's Fling).

8 months

Re: "Assigning" roles in the beginners' lesson?

by K P

John, <Perhaps, “the roles were originally (completely and utterly) based on gender”! Ya think? :) I had what I assume is a similar response when I read that, John. Aside to John: In this entire, ongoing discussion, it seems to me that there is an active conspiracy of pretense (along the lines of 'the emperor's new clothes') that the elephant sitting squarely in the middle of the room is actually a blueberry muffin. Open and honest questions: Am I the only living person who has a preference for dancing with the opposite cisgender (realizing that any particular, such opposite, cisgendered individual may, in fact, have a different preference)? If the above is a reasonable question, what is wrong with saying "If you have a preference to dance primarily with women, I recommend dancing the left role. If you have a preference to dance with men, I'd recommend dancing the right-side role; if you have no preference, it doesn't matter"? What is the surveyed percentage of dancers in your community who have such a preference vs those who don't?

8 months, 1 week

Re: Modified ballroom swing position: seeking more conversation and info

by Katherine Kitching

Sorry everyone - I am clearly not the global authority on this hold, just yet!! :D I just tested this out at home with my (life) partner and realized something unexpected- In the case of me and my partner dancing, it was actually better for both of us if his arm went below mine even though he is taller- I guess because he is taller, his upper arm is also longer, so somehow it still made sense for my arm to go on top. (If anyone thinks they can better explain the physics/physiology of this, be my guest!) Anyhow we got a photo - he is camera-shy and made me crop out his face, but I think you can view it here - let me know if any issues. https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ebotfe2jksbr3dqbjyiuf/Modified-Ballroom-Swin… Let's call this hold a "work in progress" from us at Halifax Contra Dances- seems we are still sorting out some details!! :) Kat K > Katherine Kitching <mailto:kat@outdooractive.ca> > Wednesday, March 13, 2024 6:09 PM > whoops whoops!! sorry, correction on that. > > the photo on Jeff's page shows the arms that are closest to the > viewer, in the photo, in a similar position to what my group has been > using. > > But I just noticed the dancer's other arms are not hand-in-hand, like > my group does it. > Darn :) > > We would still have Lark's Left hand in Raven's Right hand. > > KK > >

8 months, 1 week

"Assigning" roles in the beginners' lesson?

by Maia McCormick

Hey there, hive mind, When you're calling larks and robins, during the lesson, how do you a. explain the roles to the new folks, and b. put the beginners into roles for the duration of the lesson? I've seen "try swinging in both roles and see which feels better", I've seen "unless you have a preference, whoever is standing on the right of your partnership is the robin for now", I've seen "pick whichever bird you like better", I've seen "the robin's role is a little easier so do that if you feel less confident"... I'm curious what folks here do and in what kind of distribution, and how you find it works for you in practice. (Please please please let's not relitigate gender-free contra or the bird terms in this thread. If you really must, please make a separate thread.) Swingingly, Maia -- Maia McCormick (she/her) 917.279.8194

8 months, 2 weeks

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