Hi Chet and all,
Nice dance. This video shows the formations you mapped out.
https://youtu.be/m15ePORDKlc
Cheers, Bill
On 4/03/2020 10:11 am, Chet Gray via Contra Callers wrote:
> A1 indecent
> balance & petronella
> indecent Becket-ccw
> balance & petronella
> A2 progressed improper
> balance & petronella
> indecent Becket
> Partners swing
> B1 Becket
> Robins chain
> progressed improper
> circle right 4 places
> B2 progressed improper
> turn alone to face Next Neighbors ⁋
> new set improper
> circle left 2 places
> progressed indecent
> Neighbors swing
I'm fine with that. There's clearly overlap between using "proper" and
"improper" to refer to the orientation of a couple and to refer to the
orientation of a (duple) minor set, and I suspect some regionalism as to
which is intended by the speaker.
— Chet Gray
dance caller
Louisville, KY
<chetgray+calling(a)gmail.com>
(502) 419-7008 <+1-502-419-7008>
On Tue, Mar 3, 2020 at 4:10 PM John Sweeney via Contra Callers <
contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> What’s wrong with “Second Couples Improper” if you don’t want to say
> “Indecent”?
>
>
>
> Happy dancing,
>
> John
>
>
>
> John Sweeney, Dancer, England john(a)modernjive.com 01233 625 362 & 07802
> 940 574
>
> http://contrafusion.co.uk/KentCeilidhs.html for Live Music
> Ceilidhs
>
> http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent
>
>
> http://www.modernjive.com for Modern Jive DVDs
>
FWIW it's a lot easier to pick and play music for a dance that is "repeated
balances in the A, smooth in the B" than "repeated balances at the
beginning of the A and end of the B".
On Tue, Mar 3, 2020 at 1:12 PM Chet Gray via Contra Callers <
contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> I realized it does bear some similarity to "Don't Think, Dance" by Tavi
> Merrill:
> Don't Think, Dance
>
> by: *Tavi Merrill <https://contradb.com/choreographers/69>*
>
> formation: indecent
> A1 8
> balance & petronella directly into...
> 8
> Partners swing
> A2 8
> Robins chain
> 8
> Robins start a half hey - rights in center, lefts on ends - look away to Next
> Neighbors ⁋
> B1 16
> Next Neighbors balance & swing - join hands four
> B2 8
> balance & petronella
> 8
> balance & petronella
>
>
> Similar intentions, different starting place, different progression.
>
> — Chet Gray
> dance caller
> Louisville, KY
> <chetgray+calling(a)gmail.com>
> (502) 419-7008 <+1-502-419-7008>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 3, 2020 at 11:39 AM Chet Gray via Contra Callers <
> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> The Louisville Callers Collective, at our meet-up this past Sunday 3/1,
>> collaboratively wrote our first dance! I searched for homologous
>> choreography in ContraDB and The Callers Box, and to a reasonable extent
>> via Google, and couldn't find any extant dances. Anybody know of something
>> I missed?
>> [name pending]
>>
>> hook: stompy A, circle > progress > circle B
>>
>> by: *Louisville Callers Collective
>> <https://contradb.com/choreographers/330>*
>>
>> formation: improper
>> A1 8
>> balance & petronella
>> 8
>> balance & petronella
>> A2 8
>> balance & petronella
>> 8
>> Partners swing
>> B1 8
>> Robins chain
>> 8
>> circle right 4 places
>> B2 2
>> turn alone to face Next Neighbors ⁋
>> 4
>> circle left 2 places
>> 10
>> Neighbors swing
>>
>> 2020-03-01 Louisville Callers Collective meeting collaboration.
>>
>> Co-coreographers: Bob Crawford, Callie Allison, Chet Gray, Elisabeth
>> Monica, John Murner, Nedra McNeil, Susan Pope.
>>
>> We began with a blank whiteboard, and brainstormed some of our favorite
>> elements of dances, among them: circle > progress > circle, group balances,
>> good flow, swings with partner and neighbor. We then divided the whiteboard
>> into space for A1 A2 B1 B2, put a partner balance & swing in the B2, and
>> began expanding from there, diagramming where each dancer was after each
>> figure. Alright, what can go into a circle right? A right hand chain. Let's
>> put it after the partner swing. That trades the Robins' places, so circle
>> once around will put couples ready to progress to new neighbors. Circle
>> left from there. Now, where can we put a neighbor swing? Well, unless we
>> want to end it mid-phrase, either after the circle left or before the
>> partner balance and swing. We need to get partners to the same side for
>> that, so that might be awkward. Circle left into swing, then. Is this the
>> hand that flows into the swing? It is! How far, then? Oh, only circle
>> halfway. Not the usual, might need to emphasize that calling. Okay, now to
>> get the Larks across for the partner swing, and we have 16 counts to do it.
>> Hmm. Hey? Allemande? Petronellas move people around. Maybe with a give and
>> take? Petronella into a swing? Let's try it. Ah-ha!
>>
>> We tested it out, with music, beginning in three different places: the
>> circle left, the chain, and the Petronellas. Each had some things we like
>> and disliked about the flow (and we named each rotated variation in
>> succession), but we thought that beginning with the Petronellas was the
>> most generally successful version.
>>
>> Anyway, maybe it's been written before, maybe not. We're really proud of
>> our group (and, I think, rightfully so), which includes some brand new
>> rising callers. I look forward to seeing where we all go from here.
>>
>> — Chet Gray
>> dance caller
>> Louisville, KY
>> <chetgray+calling(a)gmail.com>
>> (502) 419-7008 <+1-502-419-7008>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> To unsubscribe send an email to
>> contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>
Dancers stand out Improper on the ends, to prepare for the progressing new
neighbors with whom they'll circle left.
A1 indecent
L1 R1
R2 L2
balance & petronella
indecent
Becket-ccw
R1 L2
L1 R2
balance & petronella
A2 progressed
improper
L2 R2
R1 L1
balance & petronella
indecent
Becket
R2 L1
L2 R1
Partners swing
B1 Becket
L2 R1
R2 L1
Robins chain
progressed
improper
L2 R2
R1 L1
circle right 4 places
B2 progressed
improper
L2 R2
R1 L1
turn alone to face Next Neighbors ⁋
new set
improper
L2 R2
---------
R1 L1
L2 R2
---------
R1L2
circle left 2 places
progressed
indecent
R2 L2
L1 R1
Neighbors swing
My concern with "reverse-improper" is confusion with what some might call
"reverse-progression improper", with 1s below 2s, Lark left and Robin when
facing into the minor set. Chris Page (among others) have called this
"progressed indecent", see
https://contrachoreography.wordpress.com/2013/11/06/the-twenty-four-duple-m….
That said, I'm generally fine with whatever folks use, so long as they
clarify themselves when needed.
— Chet Gray
dance caller
Louisville, KY
<chetgray+calling(a)gmail.com>
(502) 419-7008 <+1-502-419-7008>
On Tue, Mar 3, 2020 at 3:21 PM Erik Hoffman via Contra Callers <
contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> On this new dance, *Name Impending*, it’s interesting, and it took me 5
> minutes to figure this out but:
>
>
>
> It can start either improper or reverse-improper. That’s because, either
> way, three Petronella turns put you on the Lark’s side with your partner
> (one with the Lark on the left, the other with the Robin on the left). Then
> the partner swing puts everything in order. So you can start this dance
> improper, then let it flow. When couples come in on the end they can stand
> “crossed over” or not. It might be confusing, if one doesn’t cross over, to
> do the Petronellas in a Lark-Lark-Robin-Robin circle, but it’ll, as noted,
> straighten out momentarily.
>
>
>
> As I’m considering this, we may note that, when circling left ¾ into a
> swing, it’s far smoother for the Robin to draw into that swing with the
> Lark on the right. Using Petronella turns makes it smooth either way.
>
>
>
> An aside: I’m not sure if others feel this way but, I really don’t like
> calling the reverse-improper formation “indecent.” I think using that name
> is, well, sort of ugly and, to me, not funny. Maybe I’ve finally made it to
> being an old curmudgeon… At any rate, I’ll continue to call it
> reverse-improper.
>
>
>
> ~Erik Hoffman
>
> Oakland, CA
>
It bears some similarity, but it is different enough to be its own dance. I
like it!
Hal
On Tue, Mar 3, 2020, 1:13 PM Chet Gray via Contra Callers <
contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> I realized it does bear some similarity to "Don't Think, Dance" by Tavi
> Merrill:
> Don't Think, Dance
>
> by: *Tavi Merrill <https://contradb.com/choreographers/69>*
>
> formation: indecent
> A1 8
> balance & petronella directly into...
> 8
> Partners swing
> A2 8
> Robins chain
> 8
> Robins start a half hey - rights in center, lefts on ends - look away to Next
> Neighbors ⁋
> B1 16
> Next Neighbors balance & swing - join hands four
> B2 8
> balance & petronella
> 8
> balance & petronella
>
>
> Similar intentions, different starting place, different progression.
>
> — Chet Gray
> dance caller
> Louisville, KY
> <chetgray+calling(a)gmail.com>
> (502) 419-7008 <+1-502-419-7008>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 3, 2020 at 11:39 AM Chet Gray via Contra Callers <
> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> The Louisville Callers Collective, at our meet-up this past Sunday 3/1,
>> collaboratively wrote our first dance! I searched for homologous
>> choreography in ContraDB and The Callers Box, and to a reasonable extent
>> via Google, and couldn't find any extant dances. Anybody know of something
>> I missed?
>> [name pending]
>>
>> hook: stompy A, circle > progress > circle B
>>
>> by: *Louisville Callers Collective
>> <https://contradb.com/choreographers/330>*
>>
>> formation: improper
>> A1 8
>> balance & petronella
>> 8
>> balance & petronella
>> A2 8
>> balance & petronella
>> 8
>> Partners swing
>> B1 8
>> Robins chain
>> 8
>> circle right 4 places
>> B2 2
>> turn alone to face Next Neighbors ⁋
>> 4
>> circle left 2 places
>> 10
>> Neighbors swing
>>
>> 2020-03-01 Louisville Callers Collective meeting collaboration.
>>
>> Co-coreographers: Bob Crawford, Callie Allison, Chet Gray, Elisabeth
>> Monica, John Murner, Nedra McNeil, Susan Pope.
>>
>> We began with a blank whiteboard, and brainstormed some of our favorite
>> elements of dances, among them: circle > progress > circle, group balances,
>> good flow, swings with partner and neighbor. We then divided the whiteboard
>> into space for A1 A2 B1 B2, put a partner balance & swing in the B2, and
>> began expanding from there, diagramming where each dancer was after each
>> figure. Alright, what can go into a circle right? A right hand chain. Let's
>> put it after the partner swing. That trades the Robins' places, so circle
>> once around will put couples ready to progress to new neighbors. Circle
>> left from there. Now, where can we put a neighbor swing? Well, unless we
>> want to end it mid-phrase, either after the circle left or before the
>> partner balance and swing. We need to get partners to the same side for
>> that, so that might be awkward. Circle left into swing, then. Is this the
>> hand that flows into the swing? It is! How far, then? Oh, only circle
>> halfway. Not the usual, might need to emphasize that calling. Okay, now to
>> get the Larks across for the partner swing, and we have 16 counts to do it.
>> Hmm. Hey? Allemande? Petronellas move people around. Maybe with a give and
>> take? Petronella into a swing? Let's try it. Ah-ha!
>>
>> We tested it out, with music, beginning in three different places: the
>> circle left, the chain, and the Petronellas. Each had some things we like
>> and disliked about the flow (and we named each rotated variation in
>> succession), but we thought that beginning with the Petronellas was the
>> most generally successful version.
>>
>> Anyway, maybe it's been written before, maybe not. We're really proud of
>> our group (and, I think, rightfully so), which includes some brand new
>> rising callers. I look forward to seeing where we all go from here.
>>
>> — Chet Gray
>> dance caller
>> Louisville, KY
>> <chetgray+calling(a)gmail.com>
>> (502) 419-7008 <+1-502-419-7008>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> To unsubscribe send an email to
>> contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>
On this new dance, Name Impending, it’s interesting, and it took me 5 minutes to figure this out but:
It can start either improper or reverse-improper. That’s because, either way, three Petronella turns put you on the Lark’s side with your partner (one with the Lark on the left, the other with the Robin on the left). Then the partner swing puts everything in order. So you can start this dance improper, then let it flow. When couples come in on the end they can stand “crossed over” or not. It might be confusing, if one doesn’t cross over, to do the Petronellas in a Lark-Lark-Robin-Robin circle, but it’ll, as noted, straighten out momentarily.
As I’m considering this, we may note that, when circling left ¾ into a swing, it’s far smoother for the Robin to draw into that swing with the Lark on the right. Using Petronella turns makes it smooth either way.
An aside: I’m not sure if others feel this way but, I really don’t like calling the reverse-improper formation “indecent.” I think using that name is, well, sort of ugly and, to me, not funny. Maybe I’ve finally made it to being an old curmudgeon… At any rate, I’ll continue to call it reverse-improper.
~Erik Hoffman
Oakland, CA
From: Gregory Frock via Contra Callers <contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
Sent: Tuesday, March 3, 2020 9:17 AM
To: Chet Gray <chetgray+calling(a)gmail.com>
Cc: contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
Subject: [Callers] Re: First composition! Has it been written?
Hi Chet,
I probably missed something in the instructions, but it looks to me like the dance is indecent (robins left, larks right facing up and down). Due to a peculiarity of the choreography, it can start improper, but will end indecent every time after that. Is that correct? Can anyone else confirm?
If I am correct, I would label the dance as "indecent" with a note that the dance can start from improper or indecent position.
Regards,
Greg
On Tue, Mar 3, 2020 at 11:39 AM Chet Gray via Contra Callers <contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net<mailto:contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net>> wrote:
The Louisville Callers Collective, at our meet-up this past Sunday 3/1, collaboratively wrote our first dance! I searched for homologous choreography in ContraDB and The Callers Box, and to a reasonable extent via Google, and couldn't find any extant dances. Anybody know of something I missed?
[name pending]
hook: stompy A, circle > progress > circle B
by: Louisville Callers Collective<https://contradb.com/choreographers/330>
formation: improper
A1
8
balance & petronella
8
balance & petronella
A2
8
balance & petronella
8
Partners swing
B1
8
Robins chain
8
circle right 4 places
B2
2
turn alone to face Next Neighbors ⁋
4
circle left 2 places
10
Neighbors swing
2020-03-01 Louisville Callers Collective meeting collaboration.
Co-coreographers: Bob Crawford, Callie Allison, Chet Gray, Elisabeth Monica, John Murner, Nedra McNeil, Susan Pope.
We began with a blank whiteboard, and brainstormed some of our favorite elements of dances, among them: circle > progress > circle, group balances, good flow, swings with partner and neighbor. We then divided the whiteboard into space for A1 A2 B1 B2, put a partner balance & swing in the B2, and began expanding from there, diagramming where each dancer was after each figure. Alright, what can go into a circle right? A right hand chain. Let's put it after the partner swing. That trades the Robins' places, so circle once around will put couples ready to progress to new neighbors. Circle left from there. Now, where can we put a neighbor swing? Well, unless we want to end it mid-phrase, either after the circle left or before the partner balance and swing. We need to get partners to the same side for that, so that might be awkward. Circle left into swing, then. Is this the hand that flows into the swing? It is! How far, then? Oh, only circle halfway. Not the usual, might need to emphasize that calling. Okay, now to get the Larks across for the partner swing, and we have 16 counts to do it. Hmm. Hey? Allemande? Petronellas move people around. Maybe with a give and take? Petronella into a swing? Let's try it. Ah-ha!
We tested it out, with music, beginning in three different places: the circle left, the chain, and the Petronellas. Each had some things we like and disliked about the flow (and we named each rotated variation in succession), but we thought that beginning with the Petronellas was the most generally successful version.
Anyway, maybe it's been written before, maybe not. We're really proud of our group (and, I think, rightfully so), which includes some brand new rising callers. I look forward to seeing where we all go from here.
— Chet Gray
dance caller
Louisville, KY
<chetgray+calling(a)gmail.com<mailto:chetgray+calling@gmail.com>>
(502) 419-7008<tel:+1-502-419-7008>
_______________________________________________
Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net<mailto:contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net>
To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net<mailto:contracallers-leave@lists.sharedweight.net>
I realized it does bear some similarity to "Don't Think, Dance" by Tavi
Merrill:
Don't Think, Dance
by: *Tavi Merrill <https://contradb.com/choreographers/69>*
formation: indecent
A1 8
balance & petronella directly into...
8
Partners swing
A2 8
Robins chain
8
Robins start a half hey - rights in center, lefts on ends - look away to Next
Neighbors ⁋
B1 16
Next Neighbors balance & swing - join hands four
B2 8
balance & petronella
8
balance & petronella
Similar intentions, different starting place, different progression.
— Chet Gray
dance caller
Louisville, KY
<chetgray+calling(a)gmail.com>
(502) 419-7008 <+1-502-419-7008>
On Tue, Mar 3, 2020 at 11:39 AM Chet Gray via Contra Callers <
contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> The Louisville Callers Collective, at our meet-up this past Sunday 3/1,
> collaboratively wrote our first dance! I searched for homologous
> choreography in ContraDB and The Callers Box, and to a reasonable extent
> via Google, and couldn't find any extant dances. Anybody know of something
> I missed?
> [name pending]
>
> hook: stompy A, circle > progress > circle B
>
> by: *Louisville Callers Collective
> <https://contradb.com/choreographers/330>*
>
> formation: improper
> A1 8
> balance & petronella
> 8
> balance & petronella
> A2 8
> balance & petronella
> 8
> Partners swing
> B1 8
> Robins chain
> 8
> circle right 4 places
> B2 2
> turn alone to face Next Neighbors ⁋
> 4
> circle left 2 places
> 10
> Neighbors swing
>
> 2020-03-01 Louisville Callers Collective meeting collaboration.
>
> Co-coreographers: Bob Crawford, Callie Allison, Chet Gray, Elisabeth
> Monica, John Murner, Nedra McNeil, Susan Pope.
>
> We began with a blank whiteboard, and brainstormed some of our favorite
> elements of dances, among them: circle > progress > circle, group balances,
> good flow, swings with partner and neighbor. We then divided the whiteboard
> into space for A1 A2 B1 B2, put a partner balance & swing in the B2, and
> began expanding from there, diagramming where each dancer was after each
> figure. Alright, what can go into a circle right? A right hand chain. Let's
> put it after the partner swing. That trades the Robins' places, so circle
> once around will put couples ready to progress to new neighbors. Circle
> left from there. Now, where can we put a neighbor swing? Well, unless we
> want to end it mid-phrase, either after the circle left or before the
> partner balance and swing. We need to get partners to the same side for
> that, so that might be awkward. Circle left into swing, then. Is this the
> hand that flows into the swing? It is! How far, then? Oh, only circle
> halfway. Not the usual, might need to emphasize that calling. Okay, now to
> get the Larks across for the partner swing, and we have 16 counts to do it.
> Hmm. Hey? Allemande? Petronellas move people around. Maybe with a give and
> take? Petronella into a swing? Let's try it. Ah-ha!
>
> We tested it out, with music, beginning in three different places: the
> circle left, the chain, and the Petronellas. Each had some things we like
> and disliked about the flow (and we named each rotated variation in
> succession), but we thought that beginning with the Petronellas was the
> most generally successful version.
>
> Anyway, maybe it's been written before, maybe not. We're really proud of
> our group (and, I think, rightfully so), which includes some brand new
> rising callers. I look forward to seeing where we all go from here.
>
> — Chet Gray
> dance caller
> Louisville, KY
> <chetgray+calling(a)gmail.com>
> (502) 419-7008 <+1-502-419-7008>
> _______________________________________________
> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>
Whoops, you're entirely correct, Greg, thanks for the correction, I
neglected to change the formation after I rotated the sequence. It is
indecent, and it could indeed begin either indecent or improper.
— Chet Gray
dance caller
Louisville, KY
<chetgray+calling(a)gmail.com>
(502) 419-7008 <+1-502-419-7008>
On Tue, Mar 3, 2020 at 12:16 PM Gregory Frock via Contra Callers <
contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> Hi Chet,
>
> I probably missed something in the instructions, but it looks to me like
> the dance is indecent (robins left, larks right facing up and down). Due to
> a peculiarity of the choreography, it can start improper, but will end
> indecent every time after that. Is that correct? Can anyone else confirm?
>
> If I am correct, I would label the dance as "indecent" with a note that
> the dance can start from improper or indecent position.
>
> Regards,
>
> Greg
>
I’m with you, Martha!
All that “ravens pass left, neighbours pass right” stuff is just noise to me (and always was, even as a new dancer)—I always wondered who they were talking to up there—I couldn’t imagine how anyone could process all that information coming at them like a machine gun!). I just needed the floor pattern and I was fine. Personally I’ve settled on “everyone passes by right shoulders when in middle of the set and everyone passes by left shoulders on the sides” as a compromise between too much info vs. too little. But I like the drawing of the floor pattern idea as a quick adjunct for the visual learners out there like me. I toyed for a while with bringing a fan belt (rubber loop) and crossing it in the middle to show the weaving pattern, but magic marker on manilla folder is considerably more practical! :-)
Yes, everyone learns differently, so it’s helpful to teach it in more than one way.
Thanks, everyone, for all the useful suggestions!
Becky (Toronto)
> On Mar 3, 2020, at 10:11 AM, Martha Wild via Contra Callers <contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> When I first danced, I couldn’t get the hey for weeks and weeks until someone drew a figure 8 with an extra loop on a blackboard for me. Then it all made sense.
>
> For that reason, now, I keep a large hand-drawn with dark thick magic marker figure 8 with extra loop on a piece of stiff light paper (like a manilla folder thickness) that I can hold up and show briefly as I am teaching the figure. It doesn’t get everyone, but it gets people like me. There are always one or two -
> “ahas” that I hear. I could never learn it from the pass this shoulder or that instruction. I needed the floor pattern. Everyone learns differently.
>
> Martha
> _______________________________________________
> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
