I'm in the midst of changing my email for the first time in twenty two years
(I've had invasive surgery that was more fun)
and could use a hand --
the various resources/archives/boxes/files we regularly link to on here --
any warnings on which ones I'll need to re-register/sign in/update?
I'm trying to remember all the places where this email is part of my
bonafides/access and I KNOW I'm missing a few.
For the record, the new personal one is amycannmusic(a)gmail.com,
and the other work ones (amy.cann(a)uvmusic.org and
acann(a)thegrammarschool.org) are both still valid,
it's this venerable Putney School one that's finally sunsetting.
Thanks
A
I’m new to the list and not sure if this question is appropriate, but I’d like to know if any of your contra/ECD boards have term limits and/or mandatory rotation of officers?
Erik, I don't see a a link to the spiral dance / snake shedding its skin
you said you had!
Sort of related, I called The Double Bow Knot two nights ago at a regular
contra dance. Here's a link to a video cause it's hard to explain!
https://youtu.be/3ZD_C52eVt4 It has circles and arches and it sort of
spirals, though I wouldn't call it a large spiral dance. You could
potentially do that dance and then have the double bow knot figure with a
large circle. It's a super fun dance.
As an aside, last night I went to the old time jam, and one of our long
time local square dance callers wanted a word with me - he said "I heard
you called a square dance last night!" I found this interaction lovely and
hilarious. In our contra dance community, we've experienced the same
decline in squares' popularity. I think it's possible and valuable to bring
squares and other formations and styles of dance back in. I'm inspired by
the joy and accessibility of the old-time square dances that brought me to
contra dancing in the first place. I'm inspired by New England dancers'
love for English country dance. I'm inspired by anything that can break the
mold and get people to interact in ways they maybe weren't expecting. Isn't
that part of what makes contra dance so great? We go from our days of
separateness and individualism to an evening of mutual and communal
movement, living in the moment.
Anyway, cheers!
Liz Burkhart from Cincinnati
On Wed, Feb 15, 2023, 12:00 AM <contracallers-request(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
wrote:
> Send Contra Callers mailing list submissions to
> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via email, send a message with subject or
> body 'help' to
> contracallers-request(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> contracallers-owner(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Contra Callers digest..."Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Gentlespoons/Ladles (from Rompin' Stompin') (Julian Blechner)
> 2. The Spiral Dance (Hannah Chamberlain)
> 3. Re: The Spiral Dance (frannie)
> 4. Re: The Spiral Dance (Casey Carr)
> 5. Re: The Spiral Dance (Meg Dedolph)
> 6. Re: The Spiral Dance (Jessica Atkinson)
> 7. Re: The Spiral Dance (Jerome Grisanti)
> 8. Re: Gentlespoons/Ladles (from Rompin' Stompin') (Bree Kalb)
> 9. Re: Gentlespoons/Ladles (from Rompin' Stompin') (Jon Greene)
> 10. Re: The Spiral Dance (Stein, Robert)
> 11. Re: The Spiral Dance (Luke Donforth)
> 12. Re: The Spiral Dance (Mary Collins)
> 13. Re: Gentlespoons/Ladles (from Rompin' Stompin') (Julian Blechner)
> 14. Re: The Spiral Dance (Katherine Kitching)
> 15. Antivaxx stuff (Julian Blechner)
> 16. Re: The Spiral Dance (Louise Siddons)
> 17. Re: The Spiral Dance (Erik Hoffman)
> 18. Re: Gentlespoons/Ladles (from Rompin' Stompin') (Erik Hoffman)
> 19. Re: The Spiral Dance (Rich Goss)
> 20. Re: Gentlespoons/Ladles (from Rompin' Stompin') (Jeff Kaufman)
> 21. Re: Gentlespoons/Ladles (from Rompin' Stompin') (Dan Kappus)
> 22. Re: The Spiral Dance (Jacob or Nancy Bloom)
> 23. Re: The Spiral Dance (Helle Hill)
> 24. Re: The Spiral Dance (Jimmy Akin)
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Julian Blechner <juliancallsdances(a)gmail.com>
> To: Jeff Kaufman <jeff(a)alum.swarthmore.edu>
> Cc: Michael Fuerst <sjapartments(a)gmail.com>, Shared Weight Contra Callers
> <contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
> Bcc:
> Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2023 01:47:44 -0500
> Subject: [Callers] Re: Gentlespoons/Ladles (from Rompin' Stompin')
> 2 items.
>
> 1. Jets/Rubies
>
> A story I'm unsure how many have heard:
>
> Ultimately, what sunk "jets/rubies" wasn't so much "airplane" or
> "black/red" (ships and planes are traditionally named after women, so, I
> never got the whole "a jet is masculine" thing, but, I digress).
> A dance I called in Brooklyn with Bob Isaacs was a tipping point - before
> Brooklyn's contra dance had settled on terms.
> The orgs got a few complaints that "jets" sounded _too_ much like "gents"
> in a "who are we kidding?" sort of way.
>
> This came as a surprise to me, as the going assumption was that "sounds
> like gents, but isn't actually gents" was a feature, not a bug (coming from
> Hampshire College's tests that Jets/Rubies had initially became the initial
> non-bands/bares popular set of genderfreee terms to try out). Jets/Rubies
> was also my favorite, but my experience isn't a transgender one, and being
> queer isn't a uniform viewpoint.
>
> 2. Maia's email:
>
> Amen.
>
> I had reached out to Jon in a private email, asking about whether the tone
> of the email was joking or not; I've received no reply.
> At a face value read of that email, it wasn't especially tactful or
> sensitive to anyone that's not cisgender and straight on this email list.
> Jon's email could be an attempt at humor, so, I'll leave that there, but,
> the email bothered me as well and I'm happy Maia spoke up rather than
> letting that be without any response.
>
> in dance,
> Julian
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 13, 2023, 11:07 PM Jeff Kaufman via Contra Callers <
> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> Unfortunately Jets/Rubies sounds gendered to a lot of people: while "Jet"
>> is a jemstone, it's also an engine, a plane, sports team, and a fictional
>> gang, all more male-ish than female-ish. And "Ruby" is a commonish female
>> name and gemstones are more associated with women than men.
>>
>> There's also a lot of benefit in having terms with "L" and "R" to tie the
>> role names to the roles.
>>
>> It's definitely harder for experienced dancers and callers to switch from
>> Ladies/Gents to Larks/Robins than to Jets/Rubies, but as someone who helped
>> their dance switch over (and who considered Jets/Rubies at the time) people
>> got the new terms pretty quickly. It's a total non-issue at our dance now.
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 13, 2023 at 10:47 PM Amy Cann via Contra Callers <
>> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>
>>> I LIKE THIS!
>>> I hereby nominate "jets and rubies" as the likeliest contender, far
>>> outshining my own personal fallback, suns-and-moons.
>>>
>>> And btw, I'm absolutely seeing "jets" in my mind as black shiny beads,
>>> not flying machines.
>>>
>>> On 2/13/23, Michael Fuerst via Contra Callers
>>> <contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>> > jets/rubies might be the best solution several reasons:
>>> > (1) no relation to gender roles,
>>> > (2) sound like gents and ladies, satisfying those who cognitively have
>>> > difficulty associating larks and robins with the corresponding roles.
>>> > (3) easier and faster to say. Jets, unlike larks, has no hard
>>> consonant.
>>> > Rubies has a hard consonant "b", but the sound of the "u" leaves one's
>>> lips
>>> > and tongue positioned perfectly to utter the "b". (This is a benefit
>>> to new
>>> > callers, who often have difficulty prompting on time.)
>>> > -----
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>> > To unsubscribe send an email to
>>> contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>> >
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>> To unsubscribe send an email to
>>> contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> To unsubscribe send an email to
>> contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Hannah Chamberlain <hannahchamb(a)gmail.com>
> To: contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2023 07:42:45 -0500
> Subject: [Callers] The Spiral Dance
> Greeting callers!
> I am calling a friend's wedding this weekend and she requested "the spiral
> dance," a circle dance where at some point one person leads everyone into a
> spiral (or, optionally, anywhere around the hall?). I think I've danced it
> before, but I'm having a hard time finding a name or notes on how to call
> it. Can anyone share a version with me?
> Thanks in advance,
> Hannah Chamberlain
> (outside of) Portland, ME
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: frannie <dancingfrannie(a)gmail.com>
> To: Hannah Chamberlain <hannahchamb(a)gmail.com>
> Cc: contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> Bcc:
> Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2023 08:54:06 -0400
> Subject: [Callers] Re: The Spiral Dance
> Lisa Greenleaf lead a spiral waltz at my wedding. If you are friends with
> me or Dan Vilter on Facebook he took a video and you could watch it. One of
> us shares it every January 5th or so. It's a great video. Lisa had
> everyone form a circle around us (bride and groom) she let us start
> waltzing in the middle before leading all the guests around us in a
> circle/spiral left, with her only holding one person's hand. As the circle
> got smaller and closer to us she inverted the circle and spiraled everyone
> back out from the center. Then she told everyone to waltz with their
> partners. It was a wonderful moment, it makes a great video and it's
> really easy to do. Also since it's just walking in a circle it's easy to
> get everyone up to do it.
> Good luck!
> ~Frannie Marr
>
> On Tue, Feb 14, 2023, 8:43 AM Hannah Chamberlain via Contra Callers <
> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> Greeting callers!
>> I am calling a friend's wedding this weekend and she requested "the
>> spiral dance," a circle dance where at some point one person leads everyone
>> into a spiral (or, optionally, anywhere around the hall?). I think I've
>> danced it before, but I'm having a hard time finding a name or notes on how
>> to call it. Can anyone share a version with me?
>> Thanks in advance,
>> Hannah Chamberlain
>> (outside of) Portland, ME
>> _______________________________________________
>> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> To unsubscribe send an email to
>> contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Casey Carr <casey(a)stmktg.com>
> To: contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2023 08:10:17 -0500
> Subject: [Callers] Re: The Spiral Dance
>
> Frannie, what a great use of the spiral! I think of this move as an add
> on (as Lisa used it) vs a dance. I will often use a spiral at a community
> dance and attach it to the end of a circle dance or a big Southern Circle
> Mixer... also great at weddings, private parties, etc.
>
> I start it by having everyone circle left and then I hop off the stage and
> lead the spiral as Frannie described. The tricky part is at the end of
> unwinding the spiral you have to lead the group slowly in order to leave
> enough time for the end of the spiral to unwind before you get them back
> into a big circle left. Once they are circling left again at the end I
> have them go into the middle twice with big shouts. Sometimes I'll also
> have the whole circle rip and snort before the spiral. It's always a hit!
>
> Casey Carr
>
> On 2/14/2023 7:54 AM, frannie via Contra Callers wrote:
>
> Lisa Greenleaf lead a spiral waltz at my wedding. If you are friends with
> me or Dan Vilter on Facebook he took a video and you could watch it. One of
> us shares it every January 5th or so. It's a great video. Lisa had
> everyone form a circle around us (bride and groom) she let us start
> waltzing in the middle before leading all the guests around us in a
> circle/spiral left, with her only holding one person's hand. As the circle
> got smaller and closer to us she inverted the circle and spiraled everyone
> back out from the center. Then she told everyone to waltz with their
> partners. It was a wonderful moment, it makes a great video and it's
> really easy to do. Also since it's just walking in a circle it's easy to
> get everyone up to do it.
> Good luck!
> ~Frannie Marr
>
> On Tue, Feb 14, 2023, 8:43 AM Hannah Chamberlain via Contra Callers <
> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> Greeting callers!
>> I am calling a friend's wedding this weekend and she requested "the
>> spiral dance," a circle dance where at some point one person leads everyone
>> into a spiral (or, optionally, anywhere around the hall?). I think I've
>> danced it before, but I'm having a hard time finding a name or notes on how
>> to call it. Can anyone share a version with me?
>> Thanks in advance,
>> Hannah Chamberlain
>> (outside of) Portland, ME
>> _______________________________________________
>> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> To unsubscribe send an email to
>> contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Meg Dedolph <meg.dedolph(a)gmail.com>
> To: Casey Carr <casey(a)stmktg.com>
> Cc: contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> Bcc:
> Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2023 07:20:31 -0600
> Subject: [Callers] Re: The Spiral Dance
> The thing I learned from doing this is that the person leading the front
> has to take *very small* steps - smaller than a full step - or else things
> get stretched out and uncomfortable at the end.
> Good luck! It's a fun dance and people really seem to get a kick out of it.
>
> On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 7:10 AM Casey Carr via Contra Callers <
> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> Frannie, what a great use of the spiral! I think of this move as an add
>> on (as Lisa used it) vs a dance. I will often use a spiral at a community
>> dance and attach it to the end of a circle dance or a big Southern Circle
>> Mixer... also great at weddings, private parties, etc.
>>
>> I start it by having everyone circle left and then I hop off the stage
>> and lead the spiral as Frannie described. The tricky part is at the end of
>> unwinding the spiral you have to lead the group slowly in order to leave
>> enough time for the end of the spiral to unwind before you get them back
>> into a big circle left. Once they are circling left again at the end I
>> have them go into the middle twice with big shouts. Sometimes I'll also
>> have the whole circle rip and snort before the spiral. It's always a hit!
>>
>> Casey Carr
>>
>> On 2/14/2023 7:54 AM, frannie via Contra Callers wrote:
>>
>> Lisa Greenleaf lead a spiral waltz at my wedding. If you are friends
>> with me or Dan Vilter on Facebook he took a video and you could watch it.
>> One of us shares it every January 5th or so. It's a great video. Lisa had
>> everyone form a circle around us (bride and groom) she let us start
>> waltzing in the middle before leading all the guests around us in a
>> circle/spiral left, with her only holding one person's hand. As the circle
>> got smaller and closer to us she inverted the circle and spiraled everyone
>> back out from the center. Then she told everyone to waltz with their
>> partners. It was a wonderful moment, it makes a great video and it's
>> really easy to do. Also since it's just walking in a circle it's easy to
>> get everyone up to do it.
>> Good luck!
>> ~Frannie Marr
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 14, 2023, 8:43 AM Hannah Chamberlain via Contra Callers <
>> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Greeting callers!
>>> I am calling a friend's wedding this weekend and she requested "the
>>> spiral dance," a circle dance where at some point one person leads everyone
>>> into a spiral (or, optionally, anywhere around the hall?). I think I've
>>> danced it before, but I'm having a hard time finding a name or notes on how
>>> to call it. Can anyone share a version with me?
>>> Thanks in advance,
>>> Hannah Chamberlain
>>> (outside of) Portland, ME
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>> To unsubscribe send an email to
>>> contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> To unsubscribe send an email to
>> contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Jessica Atkinson <thesewingmaiden(a)gmail.com>
> To: Hannah Chamberlain <hannahchamb(a)gmail.com>
> Cc: contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> Bcc:
> Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2023 09:04:01 -0500
> Subject: [Callers] Re: The Spiral Dance
> I’ve done this often as part of the Grand March, I do it as the first
> “dance” of the evening. The only people who really need to know what will
> happen is the first few people - I typically lead the group, and either
> prompt the next couple of people as necessary or give them a heads up
> before the dance. I don’t often do it as a partner dance just so that
> everyone of all ages can join in, and let everyone know it’s a “follow the
> leader” dance. I turn on the music, start walking around and have people
> join onto the end of the line as I weave around room. Once everyone
> interested has joined, I lead the line in a circle around the edge of the
> room. Gradually I tighten the circle in a spiral formation until there’s
> just a small space in the middle - you do have to slow down as the spiral
> tightens to avoid too much pulling on arms. Once there’s just a bit of
> space in the middle, it’s a sharp u-turn for the leader, then spiral out.
> It is everyone’s favorite moment when it happens, especially if they didn’t
> realize it was coming! From there, as the spiral unwinds I lead around in a
> circle again until the next set of figures. I will weave in and out of the
> line without dropping hands as one move. Another is making arches - the
> first two make an arch, the line travels under and the next two make an
> arch and so on everyone has travelled under the arches and then formed one.
> At the point the arches “collapse” - the lead two people drop their arch
> and then travel under the arch themselves. Once out on the other side, can
> either transition to a move with everyone paired up or form up the
> line/ring of joined hands. When done with live music, once I’ve completed
> all the figures I drop hands and everyone gathers around where the band is
> and claps along until the music stops. Hopefully that makes sense! I can’t
> remember which book, but either Sashay the Donut or Listen to the
> Mockingbird describes some of the different possible moves. Google may
> bring up some different ideas and videos as well. 🙂
>
> -Jessica
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 14, 2023, at 7:43 AM, Hannah Chamberlain via Contra Callers <
> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Greeting callers!
> > I am calling a friend's wedding this weekend and she requested "the
> spiral dance," a circle dance where at some point one person leads everyone
> into a spiral (or, optionally, anywhere around the hall?). I think I've
> danced it before, but I'm having a hard time finding a name or notes on how
> to call it. Can anyone share a version with me?
> > Thanks in advance,
> > Hannah Chamberlain
> > (outside of) Portland, ME
> > _______________________________________________
> > Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> > To unsubscribe send an email to
> contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Jerome Grisanti <jerome.grisanti(a)gmail.com>
> To: Jessica Atkinson <thesewingmaiden(a)gmail.com>
> Cc: Hannah Chamberlain <hannahchamb(a)gmail.com>, Shared Weight Contra
> Callers <contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
> Bcc:
> Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2023 09:17:49 -0500
> Subject: [Callers] Re: The Spiral Dance
> I would add this it's important for the dancers to know to keep holding on
> during the spiral.
>
> Also, I often quip as the ball is nearing its tightest that "planning
> ahead wasn't always my strongest skill."
>
> Adds a bit of drama as people wonder, "how's this going to end?"
>
> Jerome
>
> On Tue, Feb 14, 2023, 9:04 AM Jessica Atkinson via Contra Callers <
> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> I’ve done this often as part of the Grand March, I do it as the first
>> “dance” of the evening. The only people who really need to know what will
>> happen is the first few people - I typically lead the group, and either
>> prompt the next couple of people as necessary or give them a heads up
>> before the dance. I don’t often do it as a partner dance just so that
>> everyone of all ages can join in, and let everyone know it’s a “follow the
>> leader” dance. I turn on the music, start walking around and have people
>> join onto the end of the line as I weave around room. Once everyone
>> interested has joined, I lead the line in a circle around the edge of the
>> room. Gradually I tighten the circle in a spiral formation until there’s
>> just a small space in the middle - you do have to slow down as the spiral
>> tightens to avoid too much pulling on arms. Once there’s just a bit of
>> space in the middle, it’s a sharp u-turn for the leader, then spiral out.
>> It is everyone’s favorite moment when it happens, especially if they didn’t
>> realize it was coming! From there, as the spiral unwinds I lead around in a
>> circle again until the next set of figures. I will weave in and out of the
>> line without dropping hands as one move. Another is making arches - the
>> first two make an arch, the line travels under and the next two make an
>> arch and so on everyone has travelled under the arches and then formed one.
>> At the point the arches “collapse” - the lead two people drop their arch
>> and then travel under the arch themselves. Once out on the other side, can
>> either transition to a move with everyone paired up or form up the
>> line/ring of joined hands. When done with live music, once I’ve completed
>> all the figures I drop hands and everyone gathers around where the band is
>> and claps along until the music stops. Hopefully that makes sense! I can’t
>> remember which book, but either Sashay the Donut or Listen to the
>> Mockingbird describes some of the different possible moves. Google may
>> bring up some different ideas and videos as well. 🙂
>>
>> -Jessica
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Feb 14, 2023, at 7:43 AM, Hannah Chamberlain via Contra Callers <
>> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > Greeting callers!
>> > I am calling a friend's wedding this weekend and she requested "the
>> spiral dance," a circle dance where at some point one person leads everyone
>> into a spiral (or, optionally, anywhere around the hall?). I think I've
>> danced it before, but I'm having a hard time finding a name or notes on how
>> to call it. Can anyone share a version with me?
>> > Thanks in advance,
>> > Hannah Chamberlain
>> > (outside of) Portland, ME
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> > To unsubscribe send an email to
>> contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> _______________________________________________
>> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> To unsubscribe send an email to
>> contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Bree Kalb <breekalb(a)gmail.com>
> To: Maia McCormick <maia.mcc(a)gmail.com>
> Cc: Shared Weight Contra Callers <contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
> Bcc:
> Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2023 09:55:53 -0500
> Subject: [Callers] Re: Gentlespoons/Ladles (from Rompin' Stompin')
> Thanks for this Maia; you said it better than I can.
>
> And as I’ve said elsewhere, learning to teach/call positionally and
> adapting to dancing to Larks/Ravens has, for me, the bonus of creating new
> brain cells and possibly delaying cognitive decline.
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 13, 2023 at 9:47 PM Maia McCormick via Contra Callers <
> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> Happier days for some, but a lot of us, those "haylcon days" were really
>> not all that. Transgender people and gays and lesbians having to hide who
>> they were, or not able to dance with (let alone marry) their partners for
>> fear of retaliation, or having to go to their own separate dances to feel
>> safe and accepted; women with no recourse if they were touched
>> inappropriately or made to feel unsafe; and more that I don't have a gut
>> sense for, not being part of those groups. For myself, I much prefer the
>> current time.
>>
>> I'm sure it must feel jarring to experience this sort of contention and
>> discomfort, but I promise this is only a fraction of what minorities and
>> vulnerable groups have experienced in the dance scene over the years. I
>> hope that folks who have mostly coasted through a dance world built for
>> them are willing to endure a little proximal discomfort and change for the
>> sake of the people only just finding safety and community here.
>>
>> I know email and especially large group discussions are a pretty lousy
>> way to have discussions and convey nuance; if Jon or anyone else yearning
>> for these "simpler times" is interested in having a one-on-one conversation
>> about this, drop me a line off-list.
>>
>> Take care,
>> Maia
>> --
>> Maia McCormick (she/her)
>> 917.279.8194
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Feb 11, 2023 at 5:37 PM Jon Greene via Contra Callers <
>> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Oh those halcyon days when gents were men, ladies were women, birds were
>>> birds, gypsies melted down, nobody cared how many jabs you had and you
>>> never had to guess whether someone was smiling or frowning at you.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Feb 10, 2023, at 9:23 PM, ROBERT FABINSKI via Contra Callers <
>>> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> I look forward to a day in the future when the "quaintness" of the
>>> gendered terms will be used as a quirky theme for a dance evening, and
>>> people will think it's so old fashioned that no one will take offense;
>>> gendered terms will just be "the way it was a long time ago" and not the
>>> contentious topic it has been for the last few years.
>>>
>>> If that ever happens, the "Push Pa, Pull Ma" type dances with original
>>> will be pure gold!
>>>
>>> bobfab(a)aol.com
>>>
>>> On Fri, Feb 10, 2023 at 3:03 PM, Rich Sbardella via Contra Callers
>>> <contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>> To unsubscribe send an email to
>>> contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>> To unsubscribe send an email to
>>> contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>> To unsubscribe send an email to
>>> contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> To unsubscribe send an email to
>> contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Jon Greene <greeneneerg(a)gmail.com>
> To: Maia McCormick <maia.mcc(a)gmail.com>
> Cc: Shared Weight Contra Callers <contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
> Bcc:
> Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2023 10:32:20 -0500
> Subject: [Callers] Re: Gentlespoons/Ladles (from Rompin' Stompin')
> Hi Maia,
>
> The part of my post referencing role names was meant to be ironic ("when
> men were men ...") and was triggered by Robert's post about some future
> nostalgia. I'm sorry if I offended you or anyone else. I have no problem
> with any of the gender free names. Nor do I have a problem with "right
> shoulder round" apart from it being a mouthful and that callers no longer
> emphasize eye contact. But that's fine. I get that not everyone is
> comfortable with making eye contact with everyone else. Those who want to,
> do. Neither of these changes has in any way detracted from my dance
> experience.
>
> But the Covid part was not ironic. I definitely miss not being able to
> simply go to a dance without restrictions. And I miss seeing people's
> faces. But at least requirements like pre-registration, testing and mask
> wearing impose reasonable requirements on all dancers, even though I
> personally have chosen not to go to a dance that requires masking. But I
> believe that vaccination requirements are out and out exclusionary and that
> the data is at best mixed as to whether asymptomatic unvaccinated or
> partially vaccinated dancers pose any greater risk of transmitting Covid
> than asymptomatic fully vaccinated and boosted dancers, especially as the
> virus continues to mutate. Requiring that a person puts a synthesized
> chemical into their body is not equivalent to requiring that they wear a
> mask. And that's why virtually all vaccination mandates have been dropped,
> even by organizations like the Metropolitan Opera that caters to older,
> more vulnerable populations. It's ironic that this thread is all about
> making dances as inclusive as possible while some of the largest dances in
> New England exclude over 80% of the population (those who have not gotten
> the bivalent booster). It doesn't much matter what the role names are when
> you're not allowed to go to a dance in the first place.
>
> - Jon
>
> On Mon, Feb 13, 2023 at 9:47 PM Maia McCormick via Contra Callers <
> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> Happier days for some, but a lot of us, those "haylcon days" were really
>> not all that. Transgender people and gays and lesbians having to hide who
>> they were, or not able to dance with (let alone marry) their partners for
>> fear of retaliation, or having to go to their own separate dances to feel
>> safe and accepted; women with no recourse if they were touched
>> inappropriately or made to feel unsafe; and more that I don't have a gut
>> sense for, not being part of those groups. For myself, I much prefer the
>> current time.
>>
>> I'm sure it must feel jarring to experience this sort of contention and
>> discomfort, but I promise this is only a fraction of what minorities and
>> vulnerable groups have experienced in the dance scene over the years. I
>> hope that folks who have mostly coasted through a dance world built for
>> them are willing to endure a little proximal discomfort and change for the
>> sake of the people only just finding safety and community here.
>>
>> I know email and especially large group discussions are a pretty lousy
>> way to have discussions and convey nuance; if Jon or anyone else yearning
>> for these "simpler times" is interested in having a one-on-one conversation
>> about this, drop me a line off-list.
>>
>> Take care,
>> Maia
>> --
>> Maia McCormick (she/her)
>> 917.279.8194
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Feb 11, 2023 at 5:37 PM Jon Greene via Contra Callers <
>> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Oh those halcyon days when gents were men, ladies were women, birds were
>>> birds, gypsies melted down, nobody cared how many jabs you had and you
>>> never had to guess whether someone was smiling or frowning at you.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Feb 10, 2023, at 9:23 PM, ROBERT FABINSKI via Contra Callers <
>>> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> I look forward to a day in the future when the "quaintness" of the
>>> gendered terms will be used as a quirky theme for a dance evening, and
>>> people will think it's so old fashioned that no one will take offense;
>>> gendered terms will just be "the way it was a long time ago" and not the
>>> contentious topic it has been for the last few years.
>>>
>>> If that ever happens, the "Push Pa, Pull Ma" type dances with original
>>> will be pure gold!
>>>
>>> bobfab(a)aol.com
>>>
>>> On Fri, Feb 10, 2023 at 3:03 PM, Rich Sbardella via Contra Callers
>>> <contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>> To unsubscribe send an email to
>>> contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>> To unsubscribe send an email to
>>> contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>> To unsubscribe send an email to
>>> contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> To unsubscribe send an email to
>> contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Stein, Robert" <steinr(a)msu.edu>
> To: Jerome Grisanti <jerome.grisanti(a)gmail.com>
> Cc: Hannah Chamberlain <hannahchamb(a)gmail.com>, Shared Weight Contra
> Callers <contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
> Bcc:
> Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2023 15:58:25 +0000
> Subject: [Callers] Re: The Spiral Dance
> We have done this for decades and called it winding up the ball of yarn
>
> Bob
>
> On Feb 14, 2023, at 07:18, Jerome Grisanti via Contra Callers <
> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>
> I would add this it's important for the dancers to know to keep holding on
> during the spiral.
>
> Also, I often quip as the ball is nearing its tightest that "planning
> ahead wasn't always my strongest skill."
>
> Adds a bit of drama as people wonder, "how's this going to end?"
>
> Jerome
>
> On Tue, Feb 14, 2023, 9:04 AM Jessica Atkinson via Contra Callers <
> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> I’ve done this often as part of the Grand March, I do it as the first
>> “dance” of the evening. The only people who really need to know what will
>> happen is the first few people - I typically lead the group, and either
>> prompt the next couple of people as necessary or give them a heads up
>> before the dance. I don’t often do it as a partner dance just so that
>> everyone of all ages can join in, and let everyone know it’s a “follow the
>> leader” dance. I turn on the music, start walking around and have people
>> join onto the end of the line as I weave around room. Once everyone
>> interested has joined, I lead the line in a circle around the edge of the
>> room. Gradually I tighten the circle in a spiral formation until there’s
>> just a small space in the middle - you do have to slow down as the spiral
>> tightens to avoid too much pulling on arms. Once there’s just a bit of
>> space in the middle, it’s a sharp u-turn for the leader, then spiral out.
>> It is everyone’s favorite moment when it happens, especially if they didn’t
>> realize it was coming! From there, as the spiral unwinds I lead around in a
>> circle again until the next set of figures. I will weave in and out of the
>> line without dropping hands as one move. Another is making arches - the
>> first two make an arch, the line travels under and the next two make an
>> arch and so on everyone has travelled under the arches and then formed one.
>> At the point the arches “collapse” - the lead two people drop their arch
>> and then travel under the arch themselves. Once out on the other side, can
>> either transition to a move with everyone paired up or form up the
>> line/ring of joined hands. When done with live music, once I’ve completed
>> all the figures I drop hands and everyone gathers around where the band is
>> and claps along until the music stops. Hopefully that makes sense! I can’t
>> remember which book, but either Sashay the Donut or Listen to the
>> Mockingbird describes some of the different possible moves. Google may
>> bring up some different ideas and videos as well. 🙂
>>
>> -Jessica
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Feb 14, 2023, at 7:43 AM, Hannah Chamberlain via Contra Callers <
>> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > Greeting callers!
>> > I am calling a friend's wedding this weekend and she requested "the
>> spiral dance," a circle dance where at some point one person leads everyone
>> into a spiral (or, optionally, anywhere around the hall?). I think I've
>> danced it before, but I'm having a hard time finding a name or notes on how
>> to call it. Can anyone share a version with me?
>> > Thanks in advance,
>> > Hannah Chamberlain
>> > (outside of) Portland, ME
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> > To unsubscribe send an email to
>> contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> _______________________________________________
>> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> To unsubscribe send an email to
>> contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Luke Donforth <luke.donev(a)gmail.com>
> To: "Stein, Robert" <steinr(a)msu.edu>
> Cc: Hannah Chamberlain <hannahchamb(a)gmail.com>, Shared Weight Contra
> Callers <contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
> Bcc:
> Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2023 12:13:13 -0500
> Subject: [Callers] Re: The Spiral Dance
> Goes by lots of names, spiral, ball of yarn, cinnamon bun. Here's a video
> of one tacked onto the end of a dance (spiral at about 1 minute in)
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=315YYGc9C3k
>
> I'll note, you can go into it either by drawing the spiral tighter -
> everyone keeps moving the same direction (say clockwise) but you on the
> inside overtake folks by going faster. This is probably the easiest entry,
> and is what's shown in the video.
>
> You can, however, get in a slightly different way. Rather than drawing the
> spiral tighter, have the line leader make a u-turn so that they're facing
> back out as they draw the line. This means you don't have to go faster than
> the outside line to start winding it up, you can move at the same pace. You
> have folks immediately start passing each other face-to-face on that
> outside ring, and make a spiral of outward facing folks. When you exit,
> your outward bound line is facing in. The advantage is that it can help
> prevent the end of the line from having to really hustle along (crack the
> whip style).
>
> Either way: for a wedding, if you have the couple right behind you in the
> line, they'll be the first to the center. Jerome has his quip, I often say
> something like "this is your community, surrounding and supporting you"
> right before leading them out.
>
> Have fun.
>
> On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 10:58 AM Stein, Robert via Contra Callers <
> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> We have done this for decades and called it winding up the ball of yarn
>>
>> Bob
>>
>> On Feb 14, 2023, at 07:18, Jerome Grisanti via Contra Callers <
>> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I would add this it's important for the dancers to know to keep holding
>> on during the spiral.
>>
>> Also, I often quip as the ball is nearing its tightest that "planning
>> ahead wasn't always my strongest skill."
>>
>> Adds a bit of drama as people wonder, "how's this going to end?"
>>
>> Jerome
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 14, 2023, 9:04 AM Jessica Atkinson via Contra Callers <
>> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>
>>> I’ve done this often as part of the Grand March, I do it as the first
>>> “dance” of the evening. The only people who really need to know what will
>>> happen is the first few people - I typically lead the group, and either
>>> prompt the next couple of people as necessary or give them a heads up
>>> before the dance. I don’t often do it as a partner dance just so that
>>> everyone of all ages can join in, and let everyone know it’s a “follow the
>>> leader” dance. I turn on the music, start walking around and have people
>>> join onto the end of the line as I weave around room. Once everyone
>>> interested has joined, I lead the line in a circle around the edge of the
>>> room. Gradually I tighten the circle in a spiral formation until there’s
>>> just a small space in the middle - you do have to slow down as the spiral
>>> tightens to avoid too much pulling on arms. Once there’s just a bit of
>>> space in the middle, it’s a sharp u-turn for the leader, then spiral out.
>>> It is everyone’s favorite moment when it happens, especially if they didn’t
>>> realize it was coming! From there, as the spiral unwinds I lead around in a
>>> circle again until the next set of figures. I will weave in and out of the
>>> line without dropping hands as one move. Another is making arches - the
>>> first two make an arch, the line travels under and the next two make an
>>> arch and so on everyone has travelled under the arches and then formed one.
>>> At the point the arches “collapse” - the lead two people drop their arch
>>> and then travel under the arch themselves. Once out on the other side, can
>>> either transition to a move with everyone paired up or form up the
>>> line/ring of joined hands. When done with live music, once I’ve completed
>>> all the figures I drop hands and everyone gathers around where the band is
>>> and claps along until the music stops. Hopefully that makes sense! I can’t
>>> remember which book, but either Sashay the Donut or Listen to the
>>> Mockingbird describes some of the different possible moves. Google may
>>> bring up some different ideas and videos as well. 🙂
>>>
>>> -Jessica
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> > On Feb 14, 2023, at 7:43 AM, Hannah Chamberlain via Contra Callers <
>>> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Greeting callers!
>>> > I am calling a friend's wedding this weekend and she requested "the
>>> spiral dance," a circle dance where at some point one person leads everyone
>>> into a spiral (or, optionally, anywhere around the hall?). I think I've
>>> danced it before, but I'm having a hard time finding a name or notes on how
>>> to call it. Can anyone share a version with me?
>>> > Thanks in advance,
>>> > Hannah Chamberlain
>>> > (outside of) Portland, ME
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>> > To unsubscribe send an email to
>>> contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>> To unsubscribe send an email to
>>> contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> To unsubscribe send an email to
>> contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> To unsubscribe send an email to
>> contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>
>
>
> --
> Luke Donforth
> Luke.Donforth(a)gmail.com <Luke.Donev(a)gmail.com>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Mary Collins <nativedae(a)gmail.com>
> To: Hannah Chamberlain <hannahchamb(a)gmail.com>
> Cc: contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> Bcc:
> Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2023 12:20:27 -0500
> Subject: [Callers] Re: The Spiral Dance
> I do this with the basic circle dance, let the band know what you are
> going to do though and be clear when you break the ring to lead the spiral
> that all others hold hands. Kids esp love this. I do a weave though
> arched hands and loop around several times before I take it to the very
> center and then loop back out into that big circle again. you can end the
> dance there or resume your original dance.
>
> Mary
> "And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who
> couldn't hear the music." - Nietzsche
>
> “Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass ... it's about learning
> to dance in the rain!” ~ unknown
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 7:43 AM Hannah Chamberlain via Contra Callers <
> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> Greeting callers!
>> I am calling a friend's wedding this weekend and she requested "the
>> spiral dance," a circle dance where at some point one person leads everyone
>> into a spiral (or, optionally, anywhere around the hall?). I think I've
>> danced it before, but I'm having a hard time finding a name or notes on how
>> to call it. Can anyone share a version with me?
>> Thanks in advance,
>> Hannah Chamberlain
>> (outside of) Portland, ME
>> _______________________________________________
>> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> To unsubscribe send an email to
>> contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Julian Blechner <juliancallsdances(a)gmail.com>
> To: Jon Greene <greeneneerg(a)gmail.com>
> Cc: Shared Weight Contra Callers <contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
> Bcc:
> Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2023 12:20:51 -0500
> Subject: [Callers] Re: Gentlespoons/Ladles (from Rompin' Stompin')
> Hi Jon,
>
> I really appreciate you clarifying your email's intent and which parts
> were facetious and which weren't!
>
> Best,
> Julian
>
> On Tue, Feb 14, 2023, 10:32 AM Jon Greene via Contra Callers <
> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> Hi Maia,
>>
>> The part of my post referencing role names was meant to be ironic ("when
>> men were men ...") and was triggered by Robert's post about some future
>> nostalgia. I'm sorry if I offended you or anyone else. I have no problem
>> with any of the gender free names. Nor do I have a problem with "right
>> shoulder round" apart from it being a mouthful and that callers no longer
>> emphasize eye contact. But that's fine. I get that not everyone is
>> comfortable with making eye contact with everyone else. Those who want to,
>> do. Neither of these changes has in any way detracted from my dance
>> experience.
>>
>> But the Covid part was not ironic. I definitely miss not being able to
>> simply go to a dance without restrictions. And I miss seeing people's
>> faces. But at least requirements like pre-registration, testing and mask
>> wearing impose reasonable requirements on all dancers, even though I
>> personally have chosen not to go to a dance that requires masking. But I
>> believe that vaccination requirements are out and out exclusionary and that
>> the data is at best mixed as to whether asymptomatic unvaccinated or
>> partially vaccinated dancers pose any greater risk of transmitting Covid
>> than asymptomatic fully vaccinated and boosted dancers, especially as the
>> virus continues to mutate. Requiring that a person puts a synthesized
>> chemical into their body is not equivalent to requiring that they wear a
>> mask. And that's why virtually all vaccination mandates have been dropped,
>> even by organizations like the Metropolitan Opera that caters to older,
>> more vulnerable populations. It's ironic that this thread is all about
>> making dances as inclusive as possible while some of the largest dances in
>> New England exclude over 80% of the population (those who have not gotten
>> the bivalent booster). It doesn't much matter what the role names are when
>> you're not allowed to go to a dance in the first place.
>>
>> - Jon
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 13, 2023 at 9:47 PM Maia McCormick via Contra Callers <
>> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Happier days for some, but a lot of us, those "haylcon days" were really
>>> not all that. Transgender people and gays and lesbians having to hide who
>>> they were, or not able to dance with (let alone marry) their partners for
>>> fear of retaliation, or having to go to their own separate dances to feel
>>> safe and accepted; women with no recourse if they were touched
>>> inappropriately or made to feel unsafe; and more that I don't have a gut
>>> sense for, not being part of those groups. For myself, I much prefer the
>>> current time.
>>>
>>> I'm sure it must feel jarring to experience this sort of contention and
>>> discomfort, but I promise this is only a fraction of what minorities and
>>> vulnerable groups have experienced in the dance scene over the years. I
>>> hope that folks who have mostly coasted through a dance world built for
>>> them are willing to endure a little proximal discomfort and change for the
>>> sake of the people only just finding safety and community here.
>>>
>>> I know email and especially large group discussions are a pretty lousy
>>> way to have discussions and convey nuance; if Jon or anyone else yearning
>>> for these "simpler times" is interested in having a one-on-one conversation
>>> about this, drop me a line off-list.
>>>
>>> Take care,
>>> Maia
>>> --
>>> Maia McCormick (she/her)
>>> 917.279.8194
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Feb 11, 2023 at 5:37 PM Jon Greene via Contra Callers <
>>> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Oh those halcyon days when gents were men, ladies were women, birds
>>>> were birds, gypsies melted down, nobody cared how many jabs you had and you
>>>> never had to guess whether someone was smiling or frowning at you.
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 10, 2023, at 9:23 PM, ROBERT FABINSKI via Contra Callers <
>>>> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I look forward to a day in the future when the "quaintness" of the
>>>> gendered terms will be used as a quirky theme for a dance evening, and
>>>> people will think it's so old fashioned that no one will take offense;
>>>> gendered terms will just be "the way it was a long time ago" and not the
>>>> contentious topic it has been for the last few years.
>>>>
>>>> If that ever happens, the "Push Pa, Pull Ma" type dances with original
>>>> will be pure gold!
>>>>
>>>> bobfab(a)aol.com
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Feb 10, 2023 at 3:03 PM, Rich Sbardella via Contra Callers
>>>> <contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to
>>>> contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to
>>>> contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to
>>>> contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>> To unsubscribe send an email to
>>> contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> To unsubscribe send an email to
>> contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Katherine Kitching <kat(a)outdooractive.ca>
> To: contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2023 13:30:52 -0400 (AST)
> Subject: [Callers] Re: The Spiral Dance
> Can anyone suggest a video where the caller does lead the line under
> another part of the line? And then plays around with arches?
>
> I was once lucky to dance it this way with Sue Hulsether (thanks Sue!) but
> didn't feel confident enough to replicate it, even after reading written
> descriptions.
>
> We *love* doing the spiral at the start of our dances since learning it
> from Sue, but I haven't been brave enough to do anything fancier than the
> basic wind-unwind, for fear of messing up with a large group of ppl on the
> very first dance of the evening :)
>
> Kat K
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Julian Blechner <juliancallsdances(a)gmail.com>
> To: Shared Weight Contra Callers <contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2023 12:31:07 -0500
> Subject: [Callers] Antivaxx stuff
> Just want to let folks on this list know:
>
> I'm entirely for choosing what you want to put in your body if it doesn't
> harm others.
>
> I also support (and help run) dances who understand that immunology _is_
> about harm reduction to the public.
>
> It's a complicated issue, absolutely. I don't think there is one universal
> solution for each dance series.
>
> However.
>
> I'm autistic, so are many callers, and so are many dancers. The Anti-vaxx
> movement in the US is heavily funded and tied to efforts that do not
> respect, patronize, harm, and ignore the wishes of autistic people.
>
> If your science isn't peer-reviewed and air-tight:
> 1. Autistic folks and their allies will likely regard this as a signal
> that you don't care about them, whether that was your intention or not.
> 2. It has previously been asked not to be in Shared Weight.
>
> So, can we please not?
>
> Julian Blechner
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Louise Siddons <lesiddons(a)gmail.com>
> To: contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2023 17:53:35 +0000
> Subject: [Callers] Re: The Spiral Dance
> I’ve come to know this dance as the Farandole — a term that comes from
> trad French dance (as per here:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vb74ey_LVeg). For people in search of
> videos, the more specific term might help!
>
> Louise
> (Winchester, UK)
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Erik Hoffman <erik(a)erikhoffman.com>
> To: Louise Siddons <lesiddons(a)gmail.com>, "
> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net" <
> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2023 18:23:42 +0000
> Subject: [Callers] Re: The Spiral Dance
>
> I have led the “winding a ball of yarn,” for years at barn dances. Used to
> do it occasionally at a contra dance—though not since square and other form
> fell out of favor.
>
>
>
> Then I think it was at a Quaker Yearly Meeting in Wisconsin when they
> asked a local Native American Tribe to share their culture. There their
> participatory part included “The Snake Shedding Its Skin.” The same as
> Winding a Ball of Yarn.
>
>
>
> Here’s a video of another Tribe doing a Snake dance ending with the leader
> saying, “The snake has to coil up.” I think the song for the dance is
> beautiful.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> ~Erik Hoffman
>
> Oakland, CA
>
>
>
> *From:* Louise Siddons via Contra Callers <
> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 14, 2023 9:54 AM
> *To:* contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> *Subject:* [Callers] Re: The Spiral Dance
>
>
>
>
>
> I’ve come to know this dance as the Farandole — a term that comes from
> trad French dance (as per here:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vb74ey_LVeg). For people in search of
> videos, the more specific term might help!
>
>
>
> Louise
>
> (Winchester, UK)
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>
> To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Erik Hoffman <erik(a)erikhoffman.com>
> To: Gabrielle Taylor <gabrielletaylor(a)vivissi.com>, Jim Thaxter <
> jathaxter47(a)gmail.com>
> Cc: Peghesley <peghesley(a)cox.net>, Shared Weight Contra Callers <
> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
> Bcc:
> Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2023 19:00:21 +0000
> Subject: [Callers] Re: Gentlespoons/Ladles (from Rompin' Stompin')
>
> I don’t recall when I turned the Berkeley dance into a series that used
> non-gendered terms, but we accepted it was early in the rage. Prior to
> hearing about using these terms I used Men and Women. I didn’t use ladies
> and gents as I didn’t want to use terms that were historically class based.
> A dancer caught me in a private moment and after asking me why told me for
> him and friends men and women were seen as a gender, ladies and gents were
> roles, thus more comfortable to hear. I switched back to ladies and gents,
> realizing they had lost much of the class meaning.
>
>
>
> When I searching for non-gendered terms I found a list, a survey of
> non-gendered terms being used. I think from it came from Amherst College.
> The ones I remember were Jets & Rubies. “Jets,” I thought? Uh, “When you’re
> a Jet, You’re a Jet?” Or is it a Jet spewing contrails? No. A jet is a gem
> stone. Never knew that. Jets and Rubies didn’t work for me.
>
>
>
> Then there were Trees and Squirrels. I like that one. Used them for a
> couple months. Too lighthearted.
>
>
>
> Finally landed on Larks and Ravens. Lasted a couple years until Ravens
> lost favor and we went to Larks and Robins.
>
>
>
> I am glad it seems Larks and Robins are becoming the standard.
>
>
>
> When working in elementary schools, for years I used Red Birds and Blue
> Birds, so Larks and Robins fit quite well.
>
>
>
> I still use Gents and Ladies in communities that prefer those terms.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> ~Erik Hoffman
>
> Oakland, CA
>
>
>
> *From:* Gabrielle Taylor via Contra Callers <
> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 9, 2023 5:57 AM
> *To:* Jim Thaxter <jathaxter47(a)gmail.com>
> *Cc:* Peghesley <peghesley(a)cox.net>; Shared Weight Contra Callers <
> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
> *Subject:* [Callers] Re: Gentlespoons/Ladles (from Rompin' Stompin')
>
>
>
>
>
> As a member of the LGBT community, my view (personal, from talking to
> others, and from votes in local contra dances in Western Massachusetts) is
> it's very good to have a consistent term that isn't inherently gendered.
>
>
>
> After local debate and dance-specific polls, we've been using larks and
> robins/ravens here since about 2018, and I think it's been a big
> improvement over ladies/gents. Larks and robins are my personal preference,
> since it's what everyone here is used to, and I at least don't have enough
> bird knowledge to get confused about robins or larks having some inherent
> gendering. I don't have any cultural stance against positional calling, but
> the confusion of "lefts allemande right" seems a lot worse than learning
> new terms.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gabrielle
>
>
>
> On Feb 9, 2023, at 13:45, Jim Thaxter via Contra Callers <
> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> Just a thought, but has anyone checked with the lgbtq community about what
> terms they would like to have used?
>
>
>
> Another thought, someone mentioned earlier in the thread that the
> terminology issue had been discussed thoroughly some time ago and the
> decision had been made to go with the birds. I don’t remember seeing or
> hearing about a general survey sent out to all the CDSS affiliates or any
> other general list of dance groups around the country or world vetting that
> decision
>
>
>
> Personally, I’m exploring positional calling. Just my gut feeling, but I
> think fewer people would be challenged by right/left directional calls than
> by being called bird names.
>
>
>
> Jim Thaxter
>
> Columbia, MO
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 9, 2023 at 6:31 AM Amy Cann via Contra Callers <
> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> Since no one else has mentioned this, I'll just say that my entire
> personal difficulty with birds comes from fairy tales and ornithology.
>
> When we say "robin" we are mostly thinking about that bird with the
> "red breast", right? Not something kinda reddish-brownish? That's the
> male. In my childhood I read any number of books with
> anthropomorphised birds, and Mister Robin Redbreast was male. In a
> bunch of the stories there was also small, sweet-singing female lark.
>
> Add to that that in the states the robin is a different bird from in
> the UK, and much larger, I've got two good reasons to think of the
> robin as being the "male" role. My brain weighs the imagery and
> memories against that silly little detail of starting with "R" or "L"
> and defaults obstinately to the exact wrong conclusion every time.
> EVERY time. It's somewhat maddening. But "Ravens" was even worse,
> because ravens are black and men in formal clothing dress in black, so
> I guess things are better now??
>
> Whew. Change is hard.
>
> On 2/9/23, Peghesley via Contra Callers
> <contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> > Bree, I’m making the same change as well and am calling without
> reference to
> > role and don’t need bird terms. Louise Siddons’ position is a compelling
> > one.
> >
> > Peg Hesley
> > www.peghesley.com
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone using voice recognition
> >
> >> On Feb 8, 2023, at 7:04 PM, Bree Kalb via Contra Callers
> >> <contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> I made the same changes Chrissy did and for the same reason. I think it
> >> was 4-5 years ago when I switched from M and W to Gents and Ladies. And
> >> it seems to me that almost all the local callers did the same.
> >>
> >> ( Now I’m calling without reference to gender or role. Louise Siddons
> >> booklet “Dance the Whole Dance” from CDSS describes well what many of us
> >> are learning to do.)
> >>
> >> If it matters, my dance community is in a progressive/liberal area, so
> >> calling styles here might be different than in other places.
> >>
> >> Bree Kalb
> >> Carrboro, NC
> >>
> >> On Wed, Feb 8, 2023 at 8:18 PM Jacob or Nancy Bloom via Contra Callers
> >> <contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> At the Ralph Page Legacy day last month, Chrissy Fowler did a session
> in
> >>> which she called dances as she called them at different times in her
> >>> career. In it, she talked about how, at one point, she and other
> female
> >>> callers were insisting on the term "women" because they weren't ladies,
> >>> and then several years later they were insisting on the term "ladies"
> >>> because that was understood to be the name of a role.
> >>>
> >>> I can't give a year when it happened, but I do believe I remember a
> time
> >>> when at least some callers were making it explicitly clear that the
> terms
> >>> Gents and Ladies referred to roles, and anybody could dance either
> role.
> >>>
> >>> Jacob
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, Feb 8, 2023, 2:29 PM Tony Parkes via Contra Callers
> >>> <contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> I believe it’s in Myrtle Wilhite’s Lullaby of the Swing and other
> contra
> >>>> dances, tunes, waltzes, and essays (Madison, WI, 1993). I can’t lay my
> >>>> hand on my copy at the moment, but perhaps someone else has one.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Tony Parkes
> >>>>
> >>>> Billerica, Mass.
> >>>>
> >>>> www.hands4.com
> >>>>
> >>>> New book! Square Dance Calling: An Old Art for a New Century
> >>>>
> >>>> (available now)
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> From: Mary Collins <nativedae(a)gmail.com>
> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 8, 2023 2:11 PM
> >>>> To: Jeff Kaufman <jeff(a)alum.swarthmore.edu>
> >>>> Cc: Tony Parkes <tony(a)hands4.com>; Joe Harrington
> >>>> <contradancerjoe(a)gmail.com>; contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> >>>> Subject: Re: [Callers] Re: Gentlespoons/Ladles (from Rompin' Stompin')
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Jeff, me too...if you find it, share please.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> mary
> >>>>
> >>>> "And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those
> who
> >>>> couldn't hear the music." - Nietzsche
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> “Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass ... it's about
> >>>> learning to dance in the rain!” ~ unknown
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Wed, Feb 8, 2023 at 9:58 AM Jeff Kaufman via Contra Callers
> >>>> <contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Aside: does anyone have a copy of the "I am not a lady" essay? I'd
> be
> >>>>> interested to read it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Jeff
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Wed, Feb 8, 2023 at 9:54 AM Tony Parkes via Contra Callers
> >>>>> <contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Joe Harrington wrote:
> >>>
>
>
Hey all,
As I was researching a response to Amy's (Wimmer) Rompin' Stompin'
question, I happened across dances transcribed/written by Chris Page (I
note Chris has slso responded Amy's thread) and renewed acquaintance with
the gentlespoons/ladles terms.
E.g. https://contradb.com/dances/1372
Does anyone use those terms while calling?
I've not yet returned to contra (pandemic) so haven't yet faced adapting to
the rising avian terminology, but Chris's terms, while a little humourous
to my mind, seem quite logical. (I suppose there is the risk that
gentlespoons is, necessarily, abbreviated to... you know).
No, I'm start trying to start a movement! :) I'm just curious.
Ken Panton
Just want to let folks on this list know:
I'm entirely for choosing what you want to put in your body if it doesn't
harm others.
I also support (and help run) dances who understand that immunology _is_
about harm reduction to the public.
It's a complicated issue, absolutely. I don't think there is one universal
solution for each dance series.
However.
I'm autistic, so are many callers, and so are many dancers. The Anti-vaxx
movement in the US is heavily funded and tied to efforts that do not
respect, patronize, harm, and ignore the wishes of autistic people.
If your science isn't peer-reviewed and air-tight:
1. Autistic folks and their allies will likely regard this as a signal that
you don't care about them, whether that was your intention or not.
2. It has previously been asked not to be in Shared Weight.
So, can we please not?
Julian Blechner
It's delightful to see so many people reporting on their personal
experiences on this thread. So much ingenuity applied to adapting
beloved material to changing contexts -- what a wide and engaging
range of questions, stories, and perspectives !
With four decades of dance experience, (e.g., I'm among the callers
who switched from "ladies" to "women" back in the 1980s) I have
*lots* of stories about the evolution of tradition ... but don't
intend to inflict them on this group. There are other voices that
don't get as much air time ....
<brief plug>
To that end, I strongly encourage you look at a diverse (and often
touching) collection of brief stories at
https://genderanddance.org/
In sharing personal stories about gender, people talk about much more
than language. They talk about their experience of community, their
personal identity, their moments of distress, their hopes, their
fears ... It's rich stuff.
So far, there are relatively few stories from the viewpoint of
callers -- it would enrich the conversation if more of us told of
*our* experiences. (And/or, please nudge a few individuals to visit
who could benefit from a broader perspective, or who have compelling
tales to share.)
</brief plug>
Thanks for taking a look, and sharing the link. As we learn about
others' personal histories and perspectives, our collective
understanding expands, and our diverse community grows stronger.
Happy Dancing !
Scott
scott(a)scotthiggs.com
Hello all,
I've been asked back to a family dance I did at a camp last summer. When I
was there last year, one of the kids said "are we going to do Mousetrap?!",
a dance they remembered from a previous year with the prior caller.
I've tried to find it, but am having no luck. The previous caller said:
*Oh, it's been years... * *Its a singing game, but I can't resurrect the
words/melody at the moment - don't have it written down or recorded. **Kind
of like Ninepin square dance, where the band needs to stop playing on cue.
Everyone's in a circle single file walking under arches - 2 to start, then
doubled each time, those who are caught (i.e. the 'mousetrap') when the
music stops make the arches, and the music resumes, until there's more
arches than people on the line. *
But that's all they've got. Anyone know this one, possibly under another
name?
Thanks!
Luke
Since it looks like we're sharing experiences, evolutions, and thoughts on calling terms,
I'll throw in mine, and it's going to be all over the map. Let me stipulate that I'm a cis-het guy and my relationships since, oh, 1990 have been with women I've met at dances.
My first country-dance exposure that stuck (not the "Skip to my lou" in third grade or the square dancing in 6th grade) was in 1978, Regency dancing at a science fiction convention. The roles were "ladies" and "gentlemen" (not "gents" because it set the wrong tone according to the dance leader who'd brought this to science fiction), and since there were more women interested in doing this than men, I got used to, from day 1, "gentlemen" who were women and very occasionally "ladies" who were men. Continued dancing just that in Los Angeles until moving to the SF Bay Area in 1985.
Wanted to continue Regency dancing, there wasn't anyway, so I became a Regency dance leader and then got exposed to the existing Bay Area ECD and contra communities and started doing those dances. Would rather dance than not dance, so if there were more men than women (as I thought of it then; now I'm usually careful to say "male-presenting" or "female-presenting" so as not to make any assumptions about their self-perceptions) I'd dance with other men. (In those circumstances sometimes I'd take my bandana and tie it over my head as a babushka to make what role I was dancing clear.). I really didn't find ballroom swing with men any more intimate than two-hand turn - of course I expect nobody had any real intention to be intimate. I don't find it necessarily intimate with women either. If there's chemistry, an English-style far apart right shoulder round with eye contact only or a half-figure 8 can be sexy, if there isn't than even a waltz won't be. What I found unpleasantly intimate was the ceilidh swing some guys insisted on - arm across the belly at my waist. Not so much because it was a guy, as because touching my belly is just a lot more intrusive than my shoulder blade or my hand. Always happy to accept a cross-hand turn from anybody who wants to do that.
Was successfully evangelized to globally-based calling of English by Chris Sackett and Brooke Friendly in about 2000. It made sense to me to address calls to as many people as possible - "first corners turn two hands" is fewer syllables and offers more agency to the woman than "first man turn second woman two hands", which is how some of those dances were written down. So since then I've been calling as much in terms of "first corners / second corners / 1s / 2s / partner/neighbor" as i conveniently can and there are a lot of dances where that just completely covers it. My motivation at the time was efficiency and agency, but when I learned about the problems for some non-binary people in having to choose a gender-named role I was reenforced in my tendency to go without those role names.
(If I called away from my home dances I'd use whatever terminology was in use there, but now I just do mostly-inconspicuous gender-free without asking permission. No real complaints so far.)
Since coming back from the pandemic shutdown I've been defining the first corners/diagonals by landmarks in the room. (I used to try "face your partner and look at the person diagonally across from you. If your right shoulders are closer together you're first corners; left shoulders are second corners:" and that never worked. I think also the use of the landmarks gives people the idea that the diagonals exist independently of who's standing there, and as an added bonus you don't have to figure out right and left to know what diagonal you're on.)
I still sometimes have to use "first corner people" as a sort of momentary role name if I want them to do something and they're not at home, and sometimes "first corner top" to identify that person, and sometimes landmarks for the walls. I personally really don't much like "left file" and "right file" for which side of the set you're on both because that's more right/left stuff [I don't personally have a right left problem but know some fine dancers who do] and because it's not obvious whose right and whose left those lines are. At least larks and robins are defined by their initial relations to their partners as they stand side by side, whatever direction they're facing.
I'm I guess 38 years in to calling English, and about 17 years in to calling contras (maybe a quarter or a sixth as often as English). I've called and danced gents/ladies, men/women, bands/barearms, larks/ravens (had about 90 seconds of trouble the first time I danced to those terms because I personally strongly identify with ravens as large loud birds and not with larks (I'm a late riser and not a sweet melodious singer) but subsequently been fine), and larks/robins (neither of which I identify with). I thoroughly don't want to try naming the roles "left" and "right".
I've definitely done beginner lessons for brand new dancers, and I've had rooms of infrequent dances, but I haven't tried teaching contra dancing in a green field with no experience. (I have done that with easy English dances.) I personally don't want to promote something radically different enough that people who learned from me can't manage if they go to a contra dance somewhere else, but i can see where the geographically isolated people have to do what works for them and what fulfills their vision for the kind of dance community they're trying to build.
I haven't done positional contra - despite a lot of experience with it for English - probably because nobody's making me; I get gigs without it, I don't get complaints that I'm not doing it - and because I'd really have to retool. Role name changes I can just drop in without even rewriting the "card"; positonal is a real rethink, and because I haven't gotten into it seriously I don't know the answers to questions like how you get people to internalize which side of a swing they end on - Having troule thinking of any English dances where a neighbor swing is progressive, but I guess Levi Jackson kind of breaks if you end that swing on the wrong side - or whether there's any difference in improper dances. (Now I'll say "as you face the other couple, the person on the left side is a lark, the person on the right is a robin; if that's not the role you want change places with your partner"; doesn't seem like I should tell them they must cross, since we're not aligning roles with gender presentations any more.). Over in English land, there are dances where the first corners have one role and the second corners have another role, and you have the choice of treating that as a dance where you cross over when you're out to keep the same role, or don't cross over and "dance the whole dance". There are definitely some dancers who don't cross but are then surprised that their role has changed.
I have sympathy for Ridge's feelings and if I run into him in line will try to deal with whatever he offers me (prefer symmetric cross-hand swing if doing something nonstandard, provided you know what side you're supposed to end on), but I will also note that I've been told more than once by women that creepy/predatory guys are somewhat deterred from attending dances where they might have to swing other men.
(Oh, one other thought - this relevant to something Julian said - while I've heard plenty of arguments that seemed specious to me about the unsuitability of bird names (including somebody trying to make the bank shot that ravens were reminiscent of crows and "crow" has a racist history - Jim Crow, the three racially-coded crows in "Dumbo"), and I think people should just try and get used to it, I don't think it's intellectually dishonest or incoherent to say "I'm not a bird" and "Gents and Ladies are just role names". The class of thing to which "Larks" and "Robins" belong is avian, not human. The class of thing to which "Gents" and "Ladies" belong is human. That's a genuine distinction - one that's immaterial to me but perhaps material to them. [Now, I never heard anybody object to being called "armband" on the grounds that they're not an accessory, but to get called a "band" or a "bare" you had to step into an explicitly queer space. - nobody tried to bring armbands into play at existing "gents"/"ladies" contra around here. That's all just a nitpick. If what we have is a coded objection from women who like dancing with men and men who like dancing with women and who feel that that's what the dance is really about - well, there's no role name that would make them happy, (I tend to privilege accommodating people who would be harmed without the accommodation - those non-binary people whose gender identity is under threat 24/7 - over people who will be somewhat disappointed but get some of what they want (men who have to swing with other men as well as with women, but also nobody's requiring same-sex partnerships, so in most dances you're guaranteed half the swings are with someone you picked).]
Okay, that's all over the map.
-- Alan
