Hey all,
As I was researching a response to Amy's (Wimmer) Rompin' Stompin'
question, I happened across dances transcribed/written by Chris Page (I
note Chris has slso responded Amy's thread) and renewed acquaintance with
the gentlespoons/ladles terms.
E.g. https://contradb.com/dances/1372
Does anyone use those terms while calling?
I've not yet returned to contra (pandemic) so haven't yet faced adapting to
the rising avian terminology, but Chris's terms, while a little humourous
to my mind, seem quite logical. (I suppose there is the risk that
gentlespoons is, necessarily, abbreviated to... you know).
No, I'm start trying to start a movement! :) I'm just curious.
Ken Panton
Just want to let folks on this list know:
I'm entirely for choosing what you want to put in your body if it doesn't
harm others.
I also support (and help run) dances who understand that immunology _is_
about harm reduction to the public.
It's a complicated issue, absolutely. I don't think there is one universal
solution for each dance series.
However.
I'm autistic, so are many callers, and so are many dancers. The Anti-vaxx
movement in the US is heavily funded and tied to efforts that do not
respect, patronize, harm, and ignore the wishes of autistic people.
If your science isn't peer-reviewed and air-tight:
1. Autistic folks and their allies will likely regard this as a signal that
you don't care about them, whether that was your intention or not.
2. It has previously been asked not to be in Shared Weight.
So, can we please not?
Julian Blechner
It's delightful to see so many people reporting on their personal
experiences on this thread. So much ingenuity applied to adapting
beloved material to changing contexts -- what a wide and engaging
range of questions, stories, and perspectives !
With four decades of dance experience, (e.g., I'm among the callers
who switched from "ladies" to "women" back in the 1980s) I have
*lots* of stories about the evolution of tradition ... but don't
intend to inflict them on this group. There are other voices that
don't get as much air time ....
<brief plug>
To that end, I strongly encourage you look at a diverse (and often
touching) collection of brief stories at
https://genderanddance.org/
In sharing personal stories about gender, people talk about much more
than language. They talk about their experience of community, their
personal identity, their moments of distress, their hopes, their
fears ... It's rich stuff.
So far, there are relatively few stories from the viewpoint of
callers -- it would enrich the conversation if more of us told of
*our* experiences. (And/or, please nudge a few individuals to visit
who could benefit from a broader perspective, or who have compelling
tales to share.)
</brief plug>
Thanks for taking a look, and sharing the link. As we learn about
others' personal histories and perspectives, our collective
understanding expands, and our diverse community grows stronger.
Happy Dancing !
Scott
scott(a)scotthiggs.com
Hello all,
I've been asked back to a family dance I did at a camp last summer. When I
was there last year, one of the kids said "are we going to do Mousetrap?!",
a dance they remembered from a previous year with the prior caller.
I've tried to find it, but am having no luck. The previous caller said:
*Oh, it's been years... * *Its a singing game, but I can't resurrect the
words/melody at the moment - don't have it written down or recorded. **Kind
of like Ninepin square dance, where the band needs to stop playing on cue.
Everyone's in a circle single file walking under arches - 2 to start, then
doubled each time, those who are caught (i.e. the 'mousetrap') when the
music stops make the arches, and the music resumes, until there's more
arches than people on the line. *
But that's all they've got. Anyone know this one, possibly under another
name?
Thanks!
Luke
Since it looks like we're sharing experiences, evolutions, and thoughts on calling terms,
I'll throw in mine, and it's going to be all over the map. Let me stipulate that I'm a cis-het guy and my relationships since, oh, 1990 have been with women I've met at dances.
My first country-dance exposure that stuck (not the "Skip to my lou" in third grade or the square dancing in 6th grade) was in 1978, Regency dancing at a science fiction convention. The roles were "ladies" and "gentlemen" (not "gents" because it set the wrong tone according to the dance leader who'd brought this to science fiction), and since there were more women interested in doing this than men, I got used to, from day 1, "gentlemen" who were women and very occasionally "ladies" who were men. Continued dancing just that in Los Angeles until moving to the SF Bay Area in 1985.
Wanted to continue Regency dancing, there wasn't anyway, so I became a Regency dance leader and then got exposed to the existing Bay Area ECD and contra communities and started doing those dances. Would rather dance than not dance, so if there were more men than women (as I thought of it then; now I'm usually careful to say "male-presenting" or "female-presenting" so as not to make any assumptions about their self-perceptions) I'd dance with other men. (In those circumstances sometimes I'd take my bandana and tie it over my head as a babushka to make what role I was dancing clear.). I really didn't find ballroom swing with men any more intimate than two-hand turn - of course I expect nobody had any real intention to be intimate. I don't find it necessarily intimate with women either. If there's chemistry, an English-style far apart right shoulder round with eye contact only or a half-figure 8 can be sexy, if there isn't than even a waltz won't be. What I found unpleasantly intimate was the ceilidh swing some guys insisted on - arm across the belly at my waist. Not so much because it was a guy, as because touching my belly is just a lot more intrusive than my shoulder blade or my hand. Always happy to accept a cross-hand turn from anybody who wants to do that.
Was successfully evangelized to globally-based calling of English by Chris Sackett and Brooke Friendly in about 2000. It made sense to me to address calls to as many people as possible - "first corners turn two hands" is fewer syllables and offers more agency to the woman than "first man turn second woman two hands", which is how some of those dances were written down. So since then I've been calling as much in terms of "first corners / second corners / 1s / 2s / partner/neighbor" as i conveniently can and there are a lot of dances where that just completely covers it. My motivation at the time was efficiency and agency, but when I learned about the problems for some non-binary people in having to choose a gender-named role I was reenforced in my tendency to go without those role names.
(If I called away from my home dances I'd use whatever terminology was in use there, but now I just do mostly-inconspicuous gender-free without asking permission. No real complaints so far.)
Since coming back from the pandemic shutdown I've been defining the first corners/diagonals by landmarks in the room. (I used to try "face your partner and look at the person diagonally across from you. If your right shoulders are closer together you're first corners; left shoulders are second corners:" and that never worked. I think also the use of the landmarks gives people the idea that the diagonals exist independently of who's standing there, and as an added bonus you don't have to figure out right and left to know what diagonal you're on.)
I still sometimes have to use "first corner people" as a sort of momentary role name if I want them to do something and they're not at home, and sometimes "first corner top" to identify that person, and sometimes landmarks for the walls. I personally really don't much like "left file" and "right file" for which side of the set you're on both because that's more right/left stuff [I don't personally have a right left problem but know some fine dancers who do] and because it's not obvious whose right and whose left those lines are. At least larks and robins are defined by their initial relations to their partners as they stand side by side, whatever direction they're facing.
I'm I guess 38 years in to calling English, and about 17 years in to calling contras (maybe a quarter or a sixth as often as English). I've called and danced gents/ladies, men/women, bands/barearms, larks/ravens (had about 90 seconds of trouble the first time I danced to those terms because I personally strongly identify with ravens as large loud birds and not with larks (I'm a late riser and not a sweet melodious singer) but subsequently been fine), and larks/robins (neither of which I identify with). I thoroughly don't want to try naming the roles "left" and "right".
I've definitely done beginner lessons for brand new dancers, and I've had rooms of infrequent dances, but I haven't tried teaching contra dancing in a green field with no experience. (I have done that with easy English dances.) I personally don't want to promote something radically different enough that people who learned from me can't manage if they go to a contra dance somewhere else, but i can see where the geographically isolated people have to do what works for them and what fulfills their vision for the kind of dance community they're trying to build.
I haven't done positional contra - despite a lot of experience with it for English - probably because nobody's making me; I get gigs without it, I don't get complaints that I'm not doing it - and because I'd really have to retool. Role name changes I can just drop in without even rewriting the "card"; positonal is a real rethink, and because I haven't gotten into it seriously I don't know the answers to questions like how you get people to internalize which side of a swing they end on - Having troule thinking of any English dances where a neighbor swing is progressive, but I guess Levi Jackson kind of breaks if you end that swing on the wrong side - or whether there's any difference in improper dances. (Now I'll say "as you face the other couple, the person on the left side is a lark, the person on the right is a robin; if that's not the role you want change places with your partner"; doesn't seem like I should tell them they must cross, since we're not aligning roles with gender presentations any more.). Over in English land, there are dances where the first corners have one role and the second corners have another role, and you have the choice of treating that as a dance where you cross over when you're out to keep the same role, or don't cross over and "dance the whole dance". There are definitely some dancers who don't cross but are then surprised that their role has changed.
I have sympathy for Ridge's feelings and if I run into him in line will try to deal with whatever he offers me (prefer symmetric cross-hand swing if doing something nonstandard, provided you know what side you're supposed to end on), but I will also note that I've been told more than once by women that creepy/predatory guys are somewhat deterred from attending dances where they might have to swing other men.
(Oh, one other thought - this relevant to something Julian said - while I've heard plenty of arguments that seemed specious to me about the unsuitability of bird names (including somebody trying to make the bank shot that ravens were reminiscent of crows and "crow" has a racist history - Jim Crow, the three racially-coded crows in "Dumbo"), and I think people should just try and get used to it, I don't think it's intellectually dishonest or incoherent to say "I'm not a bird" and "Gents and Ladies are just role names". The class of thing to which "Larks" and "Robins" belong is avian, not human. The class of thing to which "Gents" and "Ladies" belong is human. That's a genuine distinction - one that's immaterial to me but perhaps material to them. [Now, I never heard anybody object to being called "armband" on the grounds that they're not an accessory, but to get called a "band" or a "bare" you had to step into an explicitly queer space. - nobody tried to bring armbands into play at existing "gents"/"ladies" contra around here. That's all just a nitpick. If what we have is a coded objection from women who like dancing with men and men who like dancing with women and who feel that that's what the dance is really about - well, there's no role name that would make them happy, (I tend to privilege accommodating people who would be harmed without the accommodation - those non-binary people whose gender identity is under threat 24/7 - over people who will be somewhat disappointed but get some of what they want (men who have to swing with other men as well as with women, but also nobody's requiring same-sex partnerships, so in most dances you're guaranteed half the swings are with someone you picked).]
Okay, that's all over the map.
-- Alan
Hey Amy,
Barn Burners, eh?
Tough question cuz, in my mind, barn burner is more than just the chosen
dance; e.g. what tune is driving it. (Might be a question of what's the
fuel and what's the match?)
Nonetheless, I'd think that dances having
satisfying-to-get-there-just-in-time timing would be good bets. More 4 and
8 count figures, less circling, alternating between longways and across
orientation, maybe extra-minor-set daliances, pass-through or cross-trail
progressions, maybe(?). Avoid gimmick figures but look for interesting
ones(?).
So (just a few possibilities of various degrees of difficulty, some
probably on your list already): Chuck the Budgie; Young Adult Rose;
Streetsboro Daisies; Beneficial Tradition; California Twirlin'; Cows are
Watching/Boys from Urbana; The Bus Stop; Pedal Pushers; Joel's in the
kitchen.
???
Sadly, those times when I've said to myself "I must remember that dance", I
rarely have. Take this list with a grain of salt.
Ken Panton
As Amy and Elizabeth mentioned, I have also experienced 1s and 2s being the
CW and CCW couple, progressing along the side like in Becket. The big
difference is I'm pretty sure I learned it that the 1s whose backs are to
the inside of the circle are sliding L which would be going CCW along the
large set (but a Becket contra dance would indicate this to be CW).
Probably this is not a big problem. I learned this from square dance
"Kentucky Running Sets." A caller would have people arrange themselves in
groups of 4 in a large circle, with couples facing in or out together on
the same side of the set as their partner. Usually then there would be a
variety of square dance figures like swings, allemandes, this one cool
boomerang thing I can't remember what it's called, mountain do-si-do, dip
and dive, etc. Then 1s would slide left and 2s would stay where they are
for new neighbors.
I don't have any thoughts about which contra dances would be good for
Sicilian Circles, or whether all are possible or not. I think it's cool to
play around and figure it out, though!
On Sun, Feb 5, 2023, 12:00 AM <contracallers-request(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
wrote:
> Send Contra Callers mailing list submissions to
> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via email, send a message with subject or
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> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Contra Callers digest..."Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Sicilian Circle question (Charles Abell)
> 2. Re: Sicilian Circle question (Jonathan Sivier)
> 3. Do you add a 'do anything' move into a contra? OR other playful
> strategies? :)
> (Emily Addison)
> 4. Re: Sicilian Circle question (Winston, Alan P.)
> 5. Re: Sicilian Circle question (Amy Cann)
> 6. Re: Sicilian Circle question (Winston, Alan P.)
> 7. Re: Sicilian Circle question (Amy Cann)
> 8. Re: Sicilian Circle question (Joe Harrington)
> 9. Re: Do you add a 'do anything' move into a contra? OR other playful
> strategies? :)
> (Qui Ann)
> 10. Re: Sicilian Circle question (David Harding)
> 11. Rompin' Stompin' (Amy Wimmer)
> 12. Re: Sicilian Circle question (Jonathan Sivier)
> 13. Re: Rompin' Stompin' (Chris Page)
> 14. Re: Sicilian Circle question (Charles Abell)
> 15. Re: Sicilian Circle question (Elizabeth Bloom Albert)
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Charles Abell <chuckabell(a)hotmail.com>
> To: "contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net" <
> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2023 20:06:37 +0000
> Subject: [Callers] Re: Sicilian Circle question
> Hello group, It's been a while since I called a Sicilian Circle, but I may
> soon - two questions:
>
> 1. Typically, one couple isn't considered the "ones" and the other
> "twos", right?
> 2. If there *are* ones and two, which couple would be considered the
> "ones" - CW or CCW?
> 3. If there *are not *typically ones and twos, has anyone tried
> ascribing those roles for a Sicilian circle dance. That is, I had an idea
> for a dance that ends with a square dance figure requiring one couple to
> arch first, thus the need for separate numbers.
>
> I did attempt to find an answer online and was not initially successful.
> Thoughts?
>
> Chuck
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Jonathan Sivier <jsivier(a)illinois.edu>
> To: New Contra Callers List <contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2023 14:23:42 -0600
> Subject: [Callers] Re: Sicilian Circle question
> I have a Sicilian Circle dance in my collection called Dip for the
> Oyster which designates 1's and 2's to determine who ducks or arches
> first. In my notes I have 1's facing CCW and 2's facing CW. However, I
> imagine this is totally arbitrary and you could do it whichever way you
> like. In most of the Sicilian Circles I'm aware of there is no need to
> designate 1's and 2's.
>
> Jonathan
>
> On 2/4/2023 2:06 PM, Charles Abell via Contra Callers wrote:
> > Hello group, It's been a while since I called a Sicilian Circle, but I
> may soon - two questions:
> >
> > 1. Typically, one couple isn't considered the "ones" and the other
> "twos", right?
> > 2. If there /are/ ones and two, which couple would be considered the
> "ones" - CW or CCW?
> > 3. If there /are not /typically ones and twos, has anyone tried
> ascribing those roles for a Sicilian circle dance. That is, I had an idea
> for a dance that ends with a square dance figure requiring one couple to
> arch first, thus the need for separate numbers.
> >
> > I did attempt to find an answer online and was not initially successful.
> Thoughts?
> >
> > Chuck
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> > To unsubscribe send an email to
> contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Emily Addison <emilyladdison(a)gmail.com>
> To: callers(a)sharedweight.net
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2023 15:47:02 -0500
> Subject: [Callers] Do you add a 'do anything' move into a contra? OR other
> playful strategies? :)
> Hey folks,
>
> After a number of relatively quiet caller years (parenting; pandemic),
> I've started to dig deep to expand my repertoire and up my skills. It
> feels like it's time for lots more dance fun! :)
>
> One dance that I've really enjoyed is Heartbeat Contra (by Don Flaherty -
> see below).
> Tom Calwell called it in Ottawa way back in 2010 and at the top of the
> B1, he called Al R 1.5 or ANYTHING (R shoulder round, swing, DSD).
>
> *Do any of you throw in a 'do anything' moment in an evening of contra
> programming?* I'm always looking for fun, playful moments that make
> dancers smile and this feels like a lovely one. If you throw in an
> anything moment, how do you choose when?
>
> *And do you have other strategies for adding playfulness to an evening?*
> I've got some dances which I find super playful and fun (e.g., Three's
> Company - Altered & Alternating - Paul Balliet)
>
> Thoughts on this?
>
> Thanks!
> Emily in Ottawa
>
> -------------------------------
> Heartbeat Contra (Don Flaherty)
> A1
>
> Bal Ring & Petronella Twirl
> Bal Ring & Petronella Twirl
>
> A2
> Bal Ring & N Sw
>
> B1
>
> ROB Al R 1.5 *OR ANYTHING! *(Al R, Rshoulder round, swing, DSD...
> original was RH round)
> P Sw
>
> B2
>
> Cir L 3/4
> Bal Ring & California Twirl
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Winston, Alan P." <winston(a)slac.stanford.edu>
> To: "contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net" <
> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>, Charles Abell <
> chuckabell(a)hotmail.com>
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2023 20:47:32 +0000
> Subject: [Callers] Re: Sicilian Circle question
> To your questions:
>
> 1: Right, the vast majority of Sicilians are completely symmetrical.
>
> 2: Because of this, I don't think there's a default for whether CW or CCW
> are the "1s". You can just pick which one you want.
>
> 3. Yes, there are non-symmetric Sicilians -= I'm looking at notes for
> "The Molly Andrew", a waltz Sicilian; it has the 1s ("those facing
> clockwise") do the figure through the 2s and then the 2s through the 1.,
> and it's fine so long as you get across who goes first. Way better to
> indicate that visually rather than just say it.
>
> -- Alan
> ________________________________________
> From: Charles Abell via Contra Callers <
> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
> Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2023 12:06 PM
> To: contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> Subject: [Callers] Re: Sicilian Circle question
>
> Hello group, It's been a while since I called a Sicilian Circle, but I may
> soon - two questions:
>
> 1. Typically, one couple isn't considered the "ones" and the other
> "twos", right?
> 2. If there are ones and two, which couple would be considered the
> "ones" - CW or CCW?
> 3. If there are not typically ones and twos, has anyone tried ascribing
> those roles for a Sicilian circle dance. That is, I had an idea for a dance
> that ends with a square dance figure requiring one couple to arch first,
> thus the need for separate numbers.
>
> I did attempt to find an answer online and was not initially successful.
> Thoughts?
>
> Chuck
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Amy Cann <acann(a)putneyschool.org>
> To: "Winston, Alan P." <winston(a)slac.stanford.edu>
> Cc: "contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net" <
> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
> Bcc:
> Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2023 16:11:52 -0500
> Subject: [Callers] Re: Sicilian Circle question
> Here's how I learned:
>
> "Everybody promenade the usual way, two-by-two around the room - now
> stop where you are."
>
> "Starting from this point right in front of me (gesture to where head
> couple of center set usually stands for contras), you're going to
> count off in pairs of couples and take hands four in this big ring.
>
> "Half of you can just stay facing the usual promenade direction - you're
> 1s"
>
> "Half of you will need to turn as a couple and face the 'wrong'
> direction - you're 2's".
>
> It links the role of 1s/2s to the familiar line-of-direction we use
> for promenading and coupledancing
>
> -- who feels most "normal", and who feels as if they're
> accommodating/supporting.
>
>
>
> On 2/4/23, Winston, Alan P. via Contra Callers
> <contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> > To your questions:
> >
> > 1: Right, the vast majority of Sicilians are completely symmetrical.
> >
> > 2: Because of this, I don't think there's a default for whether CW or CCW
> > are the "1s". You can just pick which one you want.
> >
> > 3. Yes, there are non-symmetric Sicilians -= I'm looking at notes for
> "The
> > Molly Andrew", a waltz Sicilian; it has the 1s ("those facing
> clockwise") do
> > the figure through the 2s and then the 2s through the 1., and it's fine
> so
> > long as you get across who goes first. Way better to indicate that
> > visually rather than just say it.
> >
> > -- Alan
> > ________________________________________
> > From: Charles Abell via Contra Callers
> > <contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
> > Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2023 12:06 PM
> > To: contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> > Subject: [Callers] Re: Sicilian Circle question
> >
> > Hello group, It's been a while since I called a Sicilian Circle, but I
> may
> > soon - two questions:
> >
> > 1. Typically, one couple isn't considered the "ones" and the other
> > "twos", right?
> > 2. If there are ones and two, which couple would be considered the
> "ones"
> > - CW or CCW?
> > 3. If there are not typically ones and twos, has anyone tried
> ascribing
> > those roles for a Sicilian circle dance. That is, I had an idea for a
> dance
> > that ends with a square dance figure requiring one couple to arch first,
> > thus the need for separate numbers.
> >
> > I did attempt to find an answer online and was not initially successful.
> > Thoughts?
> >
> > Chuck
> > _______________________________________________
> > Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> > To unsubscribe send an email to
> contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> >
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Winston, Alan P." <winston(a)slac.stanford.edu>
> To: Amy Cann <acann(a)putneyschool.org>
> Cc: "contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net" <
> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
> Bcc:
> Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2023 21:19:50 +0000
> Subject: [Callers] Re: Sicilian Circle question
> Any —
>
> That’s great! I hadn’t encountered that, and I really have to put it in
> my toolbox for ONS - way faster/more fun than getting people who have no
> idea what a Sicilian *is* to pair up and form one. (The best I had up to
> this point was make a big circle, pick a pair and make them face, and then
> (in Susan Michael’s words), say “Chain Reaction - pair up like this all the
> way around.). So this’ll be good even for symmetric Sicilians.
>
> — Alan
>
> ________________________________________
> From: Amy Cann <acann(a)putneyschool.org>
> Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2023 1:11 PM
> To: Winston, Alan P.
> Cc: contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net; Charles Abell
> Subject: Re: [Callers] Re: Sicilian Circle question
>
> Here's how I learned:
>
> "Everybody promenade the usual way, two-by-two around the room - now
> stop where you are."
>
> "Starting from this point right in front of me (gesture to where head
> couple of center set usually stands for contras), you're going to
> count off in pairs of couples and take hands four in this big ring.
>
> "Half of you can just stay facing the usual promenade direction - you're
> 1s"
>
> "Half of you will need to turn as a couple and face the 'wrong'
> direction - you're 2's".
>
> It links the role of 1s/2s to the familiar line-of-direction we use
> for promenading and coupledancing
>
> -- who feels most "normal", and who feels as if they're
> accommodating/supporting.
>
>
>
> On 2/4/23, Winston, Alan P. via Contra Callers
> <contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> > To your questions:
> >
> > 1: Right, the vast majority of Sicilians are completely symmetrical.
> >
> > 2: Because of this, I don't think there's a default for whether CW or CCW
> > are the "1s". You can just pick which one you want.
> >
> > 3. Yes, there are non-symmetric Sicilians -= I'm looking at notes for
> "The
> > Molly Andrew", a waltz Sicilian; it has the 1s ("those facing
> clockwise") do
> > the figure through the 2s and then the 2s through the 1., and it's fine
> so
> > long as you get across who goes first. Way better to indicate that
> > visually rather than just say it.
> >
> > -- Alan
> > ________________________________________
> > From: Charles Abell via Contra Callers
> > <contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
> > Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2023 12:06 PM
> > To: contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> > Subject: [Callers] Re: Sicilian Circle question
> >
> > Hello group, It's been a while since I called a Sicilian Circle, but I
> may
> > soon - two questions:
> >
> > 1. Typically, one couple isn't considered the "ones" and the other
> > "twos", right?
> > 2. If there are ones and two, which couple would be considered the
> "ones"
> > - CW or CCW?
> > 3. If there are not typically ones and twos, has anyone tried
> ascribing
> > those roles for a Sicilian circle dance. That is, I had an idea for a
> dance
> > that ends with a square dance figure requiring one couple to arch first,
> > thus the need for separate numbers.
> >
> > I did attempt to find an answer online and was not initially successful.
> > Thoughts?
> >
> > Chuck
> > _______________________________________________
> > Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> > To unsubscribe send an email to
> contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> >
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Amy Cann <acann(a)putneyschool.org>
> To: "Winston, Alan P." <winston(a)slac.stanford.edu>
> Cc: "contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net" <
> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
> Bcc:
> Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2023 16:39:39 -0500
> Subject: [Callers] Re: Sicilian Circle question
> Glad you like it!
>
> For what it's worth, at a ONS I often do a scatter mixer that's
> basically half of "Haste to the Wedding" -
>
> Circle L, circle R
> Star R star L
> everybody bow, promenade and find someone else
>
> for a little, then turn the scatter promenade into the big ring and go
> from there.
>
> On 2/4/23, Winston, Alan P. <winston(a)slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
> > Any —
> >
> > That’s great! I hadn’t encountered that, and I really have to put it in
> my
> > toolbox for ONS - way faster/more fun than getting people who have no
> idea
> > what a Sicilian *is* to pair up and form one. (The best I had up to this
> > point was make a big circle, pick a pair and make them face, and then (in
> > Susan Michael’s words), say “Chain Reaction - pair up like this all the
> way
> > around.). So this’ll be good even for symmetric Sicilians.
> >
> > — Alan
> >
> > ________________________________________
> > From: Amy Cann <acann(a)putneyschool.org>
> > Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2023 1:11 PM
> > To: Winston, Alan P.
> > Cc: contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net; Charles Abell
> > Subject: Re: [Callers] Re: Sicilian Circle question
> >
> > Here's how I learned:
> >
> > "Everybody promenade the usual way, two-by-two around the room - now
> > stop where you are."
> >
> > "Starting from this point right in front of me (gesture to where head
> > couple of center set usually stands for contras), you're going to
> > count off in pairs of couples and take hands four in this big ring.
> >
> > "Half of you can just stay facing the usual promenade direction - you're
> 1s"
> >
> > "Half of you will need to turn as a couple and face the 'wrong'
> > direction - you're 2's".
> >
> > It links the role of 1s/2s to the familiar line-of-direction we use
> > for promenading and coupledancing
> >
> > -- who feels most "normal", and who feels as if they're
> > accommodating/supporting.
> >
> >
> >
> > On 2/4/23, Winston, Alan P. via Contra Callers
> > <contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> >> To your questions:
> >>
> >> 1: Right, the vast majority of Sicilians are completely symmetrical.
> >>
> >> 2: Because of this, I don't think there's a default for whether CW or
> CCW
> >> are the "1s". You can just pick which one you want.
> >>
> >> 3. Yes, there are non-symmetric Sicilians -= I'm looking at notes for
> >> "The
> >> Molly Andrew", a waltz Sicilian; it has the 1s ("those facing
> clockwise")
> >> do
> >> the figure through the 2s and then the 2s through the 1., and it's fine
> so
> >> long as you get across who goes first. Way better to indicate that
> >> visually rather than just say it.
> >>
> >> -- Alan
> >> ________________________________________
> >> From: Charles Abell via Contra Callers
> >> <contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
> >> Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2023 12:06 PM
> >> To: contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> >> Subject: [Callers] Re: Sicilian Circle question
> >>
> >> Hello group, It's been a while since I called a Sicilian Circle, but I
> may
> >> soon - two questions:
> >>
> >> 1. Typically, one couple isn't considered the "ones" and the other
> >> "twos", right?
> >> 2. If there are ones and two, which couple would be considered the
> >> "ones"
> >> - CW or CCW?
> >> 3. If there are not typically ones and twos, has anyone tried
> ascribing
> >> those roles for a Sicilian circle dance. That is, I had an idea for a
> >> dance
> >> that ends with a square dance figure requiring one couple to arch first,
> >> thus the need for separate numbers.
> >>
> >> I did attempt to find an answer online and was not initially successful.
> >> Thoughts?
> >>
> >> Chuck
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> >> To unsubscribe send an email to
> contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> >>
> >
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Joe Harrington <contradancerjoe(a)gmail.com>
> To: Amy Cann <acann(a)putneyschool.org>
> Cc: "contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net" <
> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
> Bcc:
> Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2023 16:49:36 -0500
> Subject: [Callers] Re: Sicilian Circle question
> Newbie question: Why is it called a "Sicilian" circle?
>
> While certain dances came from long ago with that label, wouldn't
> many/most contras work, as long as the circle isn't too small and the 1s
> and 2s are comparably active?
>
> --jh--
>
>
> On Sat, Feb 4, 2023 at 4:39 PM Amy Cann via Contra Callers <
> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> Glad you like it!
>>
>> For what it's worth, at a ONS I often do a scatter mixer that's
>> basically half of "Haste to the Wedding" -
>>
>> Circle L, circle R
>> Star R star L
>> everybody bow, promenade and find someone else
>>
>> for a little, then turn the scatter promenade into the big ring and go
>> from there.
>>
>> On 2/4/23, Winston, Alan P. <winston(a)slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
>> > Any —
>> >
>> > That’s great! I hadn’t encountered that, and I really have to put it
>> in my
>> > toolbox for ONS - way faster/more fun than getting people who have no
>> idea
>> > what a Sicilian *is* to pair up and form one. (The best I had up to
>> this
>> > point was make a big circle, pick a pair and make them face, and then
>> (in
>> > Susan Michael’s words), say “Chain Reaction - pair up like this all the
>> way
>> > around.). So this’ll be good even for symmetric Sicilians.
>> >
>> > — Alan
>> >
>> > ________________________________________
>> > From: Amy Cann <acann(a)putneyschool.org>
>> > Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2023 1:11 PM
>> > To: Winston, Alan P.
>> > Cc: contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net; Charles Abell
>> > Subject: Re: [Callers] Re: Sicilian Circle question
>> >
>> > Here's how I learned:
>> >
>> > "Everybody promenade the usual way, two-by-two around the room - now
>> > stop where you are."
>> >
>> > "Starting from this point right in front of me (gesture to where head
>> > couple of center set usually stands for contras), you're going to
>> > count off in pairs of couples and take hands four in this big ring.
>> >
>> > "Half of you can just stay facing the usual promenade direction -
>> you're 1s"
>> >
>> > "Half of you will need to turn as a couple and face the 'wrong'
>> > direction - you're 2's".
>> >
>> > It links the role of 1s/2s to the familiar line-of-direction we use
>> > for promenading and coupledancing
>> >
>> > -- who feels most "normal", and who feels as if they're
>> > accommodating/supporting.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 2/4/23, Winston, Alan P. via Contra Callers
>> > <contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>> >> To your questions:
>> >>
>> >> 1: Right, the vast majority of Sicilians are completely symmetrical.
>> >>
>> >> 2: Because of this, I don't think there's a default for whether CW or
>> CCW
>> >> are the "1s". You can just pick which one you want.
>> >>
>> >> 3. Yes, there are non-symmetric Sicilians -= I'm looking at notes for
>> >> "The
>> >> Molly Andrew", a waltz Sicilian; it has the 1s ("those facing
>> clockwise")
>> >> do
>> >> the figure through the 2s and then the 2s through the 1., and it's
>> fine so
>> >> long as you get across who goes first. Way better to indicate that
>> >> visually rather than just say it.
>> >>
>> >> -- Alan
>> >> ________________________________________
>> >> From: Charles Abell via Contra Callers
>> >> <contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
>> >> Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2023 12:06 PM
>> >> To: contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> >> Subject: [Callers] Re: Sicilian Circle question
>> >>
>> >> Hello group, It's been a while since I called a Sicilian Circle, but I
>> may
>> >> soon - two questions:
>> >>
>> >> 1. Typically, one couple isn't considered the "ones" and the other
>> >> "twos", right?
>> >> 2. If there are ones and two, which couple would be considered the
>> >> "ones"
>> >> - CW or CCW?
>> >> 3. If there are not typically ones and twos, has anyone tried
>> ascribing
>> >> those roles for a Sicilian circle dance. That is, I had an idea for a
>> >> dance
>> >> that ends with a square dance figure requiring one couple to arch
>> first,
>> >> thus the need for separate numbers.
>> >>
>> >> I did attempt to find an answer online and was not initially
>> successful.
>> >> Thoughts?
>> >>
>> >> Chuck
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> >> To unsubscribe send an email to
>> contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> >>
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> To unsubscribe send an email to
>> contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Qui Ann <quiann2(a)gmail.com>
> To: Emily Addison <emilyladdison(a)gmail.com>
> Cc: callers(a)sharedweight.net
> Bcc:
> Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2023 14:29:41 -0800
> Subject: [Callers] Re: Do you add a 'do anything' move into a contra? OR
> other playful strategies? :)
> I call Hot Buttered Rolls by Perry Shafran and sometimes modify the B1 to
> “pass P, shadow DSD” and then invite them to sort out with their shadow as
> to what they want to do.
> https://www.ibiblio.org/contradance/thecallersbox/dance.php?id=7821
>
> Same with "Vote with Your Feet" by Bob Isaacs.
> https://www.ibiblio.org/contradance/thecallersbox/dance.php?id=1956
> In this video you can hear me say “do something” when it comes to that
> part.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKP1xR-fjgk&ab_channel=albatrossace101
>
> Jacqui
>
> On Feb 4, 2023, at 12:47, Emily Addison via Contra Callers <
> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> Hey folks,
>
> After a number of relatively quiet caller years (parenting; pandemic),
> I've started to dig deep to expand my repertoire and up my skills. It
> feels like it's time for lots more dance fun! :)
>
> One dance that I've really enjoyed is Heartbeat Contra (by Don Flaherty -
> see below).
> Tom Calwell called it in Ottawa way back in 2010 and at the top of the
> B1, he called Al R 1.5 or ANYTHING (R shoulder round, swing, DSD).
>
> *Do any of you throw in a 'do anything' moment in an evening of contra
> programming?* I'm always looking for fun, playful moments that make
> dancers smile and this feels like a lovely one. If you throw in an
> anything moment, how do you choose when?
>
> *And do you have other strategies for adding playfulness to an evening?*
> I've got some dances which I find super playful and fun (e.g., Three's
> Company - Altered & Alternating - Paul Balliet)
>
> Thoughts on this?
>
> Thanks!
> Emily in Ottawa
>
> -------------------------------
> Heartbeat Contra (Don Flaherty)
> A1
> Bal Ring & Petronella Twirl
> Bal Ring & Petronella Twirl
>
> A2
> Bal Ring & N Sw
>
> B1
> ROB Al R 1.5 *OR ANYTHING! *(Al R, Rshoulder round, swing, DSD...
> original was RH round)
> P Sw
>
> B2
> Cir L 3/4
> Bal Ring & California Twirl
>
> _______________________________________________
> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: David Harding <dharding101(a)comcast.net>
> To: contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2023 16:52:30 -0600
> Subject: [Callers] Re: Sicilian Circle question
> There is a specific old dance bearing the name "Sicilian Circle". You
> can find it in, for instance, this 1857 instruction book from the
> Library of Congress. https://www.loc.gov/item/musdi.094/ The name has
> come to imply the formation and general pattern.
>
> On 2/4/2023 3:49 PM, Joe Harrington via Contra Callers wrote:
> > Newbie question: Why is it called a "Sicilian" circle?
> >
> > While certain dances came from long ago with that label, wouldn't
> > many/most contras work, as long as the circle isn't too small and the
> > 1s and 2s are comparably active?
> >
> > --jh--
> >
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Amy Wimmer <amywimmer(a)gmail.com>
> To: "Caller's discussion list" <callers(a)sharedweight.net>
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2023 15:04:59 -0800
> Subject: [Callers] Rompin' Stompin'
> Hey All,
>
> What are your favorite barn burner contras? I have a few, but they get old.
>
> -Amy
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Jonathan Sivier <jsivier(a)illinois.edu>
> To: New Contra Callers List <contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2023 17:18:12 -0600
> Subject: [Callers] Re: Sicilian Circle question
> It appears that in that book the dance formation is given as a
> longways, duple, improper set. Not the circle of couple facing couple that
> we typically connect to the Sicilian circle formation. The dance just
> before it is the Spanish Dance and gives as the formation, "The first
> couple at the head of the room, with their backs to the wall; the next
> couple facing the first; the third couple with their backs to the second;
> the fourth couple facing the third; and all the rest are formed in the same
> manner, every two couples facing each other, without regard to numbers."
>
> Then it says, "As each couple arrives at the end of the room, they
> must turn round and wait for the next couple to meet them, the gentlemen
> being careful to have their ladies always on the right hand.
>
> This seems to be describing a longways dance instead of a circle.
> Under Sicilian Circle it says, "This dance is formed precisely the same as
> the Spanish Dance," so that would seem to be a longways dance as well.
>
> I think I have read that Spanish Dance was also used in the 19th
> century as the generic name for the circle of couples facing each other.
> So were these dances described somewhere with the circle formation, or was
> that just something that someone did at one point and it stuck?
>
> Jonathan
>
> On 2/4/2023 4:52 PM, David Harding via Contra Callers wrote:
> > There is a specific old dance bearing the name "Sicilian Circle". You
> can find it in, for instance, this 1857 instruction book from the Library
> of Congress. https://www.loc.gov/item/musdi.094/ The name has come to
> imply the formation and general pattern.
> >
> > On 2/4/2023 3:49 PM, Joe Harrington via Contra Callers wrote:
> >> Newbie question: Why is it called a "Sicilian" circle?
> >>
> >> While certain dances came from long ago with that label, wouldn't
> many/most contras work, as long as the circle isn't too small and the 1s
> and 2s are comparably active?
> >>
> >> --jh--
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> > To unsubscribe send an email to
> contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Chris Page <chriscpage(a)gmail.com>
> To: Amy Wimmer <amywimmer(a)gmail.com>
> Cc: "Caller's discussion list" <callers(a)sharedweight.net>
> Bcc:
> Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2023 16:09:37 -0800
> Subject: [Callers] Re: Rompin' Stompin'
> What do you mean by "barn burner contra"?
>
> Confused,
> -Chris Page
> Los Angeles, CA
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Charles Abell <chuckabell(a)hotmail.com>
> To: New Contra Callers List <contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>,
> Jonathan Sivier <jsivier(a)illinois.edu>
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2023 00:13:28 +0000
> Subject: [Callers] Re: Sicilian Circle question
> Thanks for the comments, everyone. Very helpful, especially the tip about
> promenading into the proper formation.
>
> I noticed no one has responded yet to the question about whether a large
> number of contra dances could be run as Sicilian circles. I'd be curious to
> hear what others say, but my instinct is that it would maybe be
> problematic. The curvature of the format would seem to make heys and other
> figures more challenging to execute - the spacing between minor sets might
> also be impacted in that formation. So, for instance, when doing a sequence
> like "alle right N1 1/2x along the side then alle left next N 1x", the
> distance between N #1 and N#2 might easily be greater than in a regular
> contra. Anyway, this is just an initial gut reaction - let's see what the
> hive mind thinks.
>
> As for "barnburner" dances, that's a broad term, and there are so many to
> choose from. How about, as a starting bid, "From Here to Infinity" by Bob
> Isaacs...
>
> Chuck
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Jonathan Sivier via Contra Callers <
> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
> *Sent:* Saturday, February 4, 2023 11:18 PM
> *To:* New Contra Callers List <contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
> *Subject:* [Callers] Re: Sicilian Circle question
>
> It appears that in that book the dance formation is given as a
> longways, duple, improper set. Not the circle of couple facing couple that
> we typically connect to the Sicilian circle formation. The dance just
> before it is the Spanish Dance and gives as the formation, "The first
> couple at the head of the room, with their backs to the wall; the next
> couple facing the first; the third couple with their backs to the second;
> the fourth couple facing the third; and all the rest are formed in the same
> manner, every two couples facing each other, without regard to numbers."
>
> Then it says, "As each couple arrives at the end of the room, they
> must turn round and wait for the next couple to meet them, the gentlemen
> being careful to have their ladies always on the right hand.
>
> This seems to be describing a longways dance instead of a circle.
> Under Sicilian Circle it says, "This dance is formed precisely the same as
> the Spanish Dance," so that would seem to be a longways dance as well.
>
> I think I have read that Spanish Dance was also used in the 19th
> century as the generic name for the circle of couples facing each other.
> So were these dances described somewhere with the circle formation, or was
> that just something that someone did at one point and it stuck?
>
> Jonathan
>
> On 2/4/2023 4:52 PM, David Harding via Contra Callers wrote:
> > There is a specific old dance bearing the name "Sicilian Circle". You
> can find it in, for instance, this 1857 instruction book from the Library
> of Congress. https://www.loc.gov/item/musdi.094/ The name has come to
> imply the formation and general pattern.
> >
> > On 2/4/2023 3:49 PM, Joe Harrington via Contra Callers wrote:
> >> Newbie question: Why is it called a "Sicilian" circle?
> >>
> >> While certain dances came from long ago with that label, wouldn't
> many/most contras work, as long as the circle isn't too small and the 1s
> and 2s are comparably active?
> >>
> >> --jh--
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> > To unsubscribe send an email to
> contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> _______________________________________________
> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Elizabeth Bloom Albert <ealbert75(a)gmail.com>
> To: Charles Abell <chuckabell(a)hotmail.com>
> Cc: "contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net" <
> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
> Bcc:
> Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2023 22:01:30 -0600
> Subject: [Callers] Re: Sicilian Circle question
> Offering up the following:
>
> *Burning Ring of Arches **by Elizabeth Bloom Albert*
>
> Sicilian Circle. QUADRUPLE Progression dance
>
>
>
> *Key: 1’s = Couples who are facing CW around circle*
>
> * 2’s = Couples who are facing CCW around circle*
>
>
>
> A1 1’s Arch, 2’s Duck under;
>
> 2’s Arch, 1’s Duck under;
>
> 1’s Arch, 2’s Duck under;
>
> 2’s Arch, 1’s Duck under
>
>
>
> A2 Ladies Chain (to Neighbor)
>
> Ladies Chain (to Partner)
>
>
>
> B1 Ladies Alle-R 1 and ½
>
> Swing Neighbor
>
> End swing facing partner.
>
>
>
> B2 Circle Left 3/4
>
> Swing Partner
>
> End swing facing original direction.
>
>
>
> On Sat, Feb 4, 2023 at 2:06 PM Charles Abell via Contra Callers <
> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> Hello group, It's been a while since I called a Sicilian Circle, but I
>> may soon - two questions:
>>
>> 1. Typically, one couple isn't considered the "ones" and the other
>> "twos", right?
>> 2. If there *are* ones and two, which couple would be considered the
>> "ones" - CW or CCW?
>> 3. If there *are not *typically ones and twos, has anyone tried
>> ascribing those roles for a Sicilian circle dance. That is, I had an idea
>> for a dance that ends with a square dance figure requiring one couple to
>> arch first, thus the need for separate numbers.
>>
>> I did attempt to find an answer online and was not initially successful.
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> Chuck
>> _______________________________________________
>> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> To unsubscribe send an email to
>> contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>
>
>
> --
>
> * Elizabeth Bloom Albert *
> _______________________________________________
> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>
Hello group, It's been a while since I called a Sicilian Circle, but I may soon - two questions:
1. Typically, one couple isn't considered the "ones" and the other "twos", right?
2. If there are ones and two, which couple would be considered the "ones" - CW or CCW?
3. If there are not typically ones and twos, has anyone tried ascribing those roles for a Sicilian circle dance. That is, I had an idea for a dance that ends with a square dance figure requiring one couple to arch first, thus the need for separate numbers.
I did attempt to find an answer online and was not initially successful. Thoughts?
Chuck
