Contra Callers

contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net

20 participants
4374 discussions

by Greg McKenzie

Folks, There are a lot of different perspectives and opinions represented here. That is a great value of this list and we can all benefit from hearing the full spectrum of ideas. But please try to avoid personal attacks against anyone. If you disagree with someone we can still coexist and learn from one another. That is the value of this kind of media. Personal attacks will only stifle the free exchange of ideas. That free exchange is why we are here. We don't need to agree with everything posted here to maintain a civil and productive conversation. Sincerely, Greg McKenzie

11 years, 4 months

Re: [Callers] allemandes

by Russell Frank

Allemandes are my most frequent subject for rants, so I'll weigh in here (briefly) as a very experienced dancer/ inexperienced caller. As a dancer, the thing I have found most helpful personally is to make sure to keep my hand well away from my chest and at least somewhat to the side. This allows me free movement and gives me room to adjust to whatever the other person may be doing. If I want to give more or less weight, I can use my bicep, without straining wrist and fingers. (I also need to take larger steps or walk faster to get around.) I'm not sure anything an ordinary caller says can help much at this point, but pointing out that the arm should be extended seems non-controversial and might help. At least in theory, I'm in favor of using thumbs as guideposts, because they almost guarantee a good hand alignment (in my opinion), which is hard to achieve otherwise. Disengaging the thumbs is an option, but it often doesn't happen in the heat of dancing. In practice, I understand the need to dance defensively, but the avoidance of thumbs has created some awful habits. Russell Frank

11 years, 4 months

Re: [Callers] Callers Digest, Vol 114, Issue 26

by Martha Wild

I would just like to say that I stopped posting for a long time after some of Greg's comments on my posts. Now I just usually don't read his comments. Martha On Feb 14, 2014, at 9:24 PM, callers-request(a)sharedweight.net wrote: > Send Callers mailing list submissions to > callers(a)sharedweight.net > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > callers-request(a)sharedweight.net > > You can reach the person managing the list at > callers-owner(a)sharedweight.net > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Callers digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Circling 3/4 and pass thru (Greg McKenzie) > 2. Re: Planned vs. "on-the-fly" call wording (was Re: Circle & > pass through as the last move of a dance) (rich sbardella) > 3. Re: Planned vs. "on-the-fly" call wording (was Re: Circle & > pass through as the last move of a dance) (Erik Hoffman) > 4. Re: Planned vs. "on-the-fly" call wording (was Re: Circle & > pass through as the last move of a dance) (Robert Livingston) > 5. Re: Planned vs. "on-the-fly" call wording (was Re: Circle & > pass through as the last move of a dance) (Greg McKenzie) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2014 09:46:03 -0800 > From: Greg McKenzie <grekenzie(a)gmail.com> > To: "Caller's discussion list" <callers(a)sharedweight.net> > Subject: Re: [Callers] Circling 3/4 and pass thru > Message-ID: > <CAFqkWLvhZ7ZFRFuRb2UM5CPaY85G3z9pepyn_kGhcpi2MPAEww(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Someone wrote: > >> Greg M wrote in response to a post by Jim Saxe : >> "The dancers in your video look like a competent group of regulars who are >> able to adapt to poorly-structured calls quickly and graciously. I'm sure >> they have a lot of practice at it. I find it very productive to be more >> diligent in my own calling." >> >> YOWIE! Is this paragraph really the bashing of these callers that it seems? >> > > No it's not. No one is "bashing" anyone. > > Someone else wrote: > >> Yes, Greg is like that at times..... ;-) >> > > Hey folks. Let's please try to avoid personal attacks. It makes the > newcomers to the list nervous. > > Without some kind of critical comments there is no way we can advance any > tradition. When I am critical I try to be as even-handed as possible. In > the above case I mentioned no one. I was being critical of the behavior of > all callers...including myself (as I mentioned earlier in this thread.). > Ok, "The King has no clothes!" "Callers are human beings!" and all of us > make mistakes. I am amazed and grateful for the tolerance and graciousness > of the dancers when I call. If I look like a competent and capable caller > it is because of them. > > If you have critical comments about this or any of my other ideas I welcome > the discussion. > > - Greg McKenzie > West Coast, USA > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2014 10:09:14 -0800 (PST) > From: rich sbardella <richsbardella(a)snet.net> > To: Caller's discussion list <callers(a)sharedweight.net> > Subject: Re: [Callers] Planned vs. "on-the-fly" call wording (was Re: > Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance) > Message-ID: > <1392401354.35434.YahooMailNeo(a)web181501.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > I attended a well established open contra dance recently with at least?50% newbies.? The caller did an excellent job teaching and calling contras, but his method was more like a square dance caller.? He seldom stopped calling and had lots of descriptive words for the dancers.? Several dancers throughout the night told me how easy it was to dance to this caller, and how good his calls were.? I did not hear one complaint from the dancers, or musicians, that he never stopped calling.? Additionally, the caller went out of his way several times to bring the attention to the excellent musicians playing beside him.? The dance was very successful, and the caller (calls)?very entertaining. > > There are few callers capable of delivering that kind of program, and even fewer who do.? It was a welcomed change for me, and for many of the dancers at the event.? > > Rich Sbardella > Stafford, CT > > > ________________________________ > From: Harold E. Watson <hwatson(a)uark.edu> > To: Caller's discussion list <callers(a)sharedweight.net> > Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 5:16 PM > Subject: Re: [Callers] Planned vs. "on-the-fly" call wording (was Re: Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance) > > > I know most our dancers are still listening because if I ever lose my place and miss-call the next figure, half will try to do what I said (usually the beginners) and the other half will loudly pronounce the correct move.? When I do booboo, after the dance I always compliment the dancers on their masterful recovery, even if they didn't have one. > > I also try to drop out as early as practical.? It's usually as switch from full calling to single words, and finally to maybe a word once every 32 bars at a place that may have tricky timing or to get everyone back in sync with each other. > > ........Circle left > .......Neighbor swing > ...Long lines forward and back > ...Ladies allemande right 1-1/2 > > To > > ........Circle > ........Neighbor > ......Forward and back > ........Ladies > > Harold > > > -----Original Message----- > From: callers-bounces(a)sharedweight.net [mailto:callers-bounces@sharedweight.net] On Behalf Of Aahz Maruch > Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 3:35 PM > To: callers(a)sharedweight.net > Subject: Re: [Callers] Planned vs. "on-the-fly" call wording (was Re: Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance) > > On Thu, Feb 13, 2014, Jonathan Sivier wrote: >> >> ? ? I like to change around the exact words I use during a dance.? In >> part to keep myself and the dancers alert.? Also if a given phrase >> doesn't work for someone then the next time through if I say something >> slightly different it may make more sense for them.? Also if some part >> of the dance seems to be causing problems for some of the dancers I >> may change the words I'm using in order to, hopefully, help them out. > > Does anyone have evidence that dancers pay attention to the caller after the first few iterations?? I certainly don't, and my limited experience as a caller indicates that few do (if any). > -- > Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? http://rule6.info/ > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? <*>? ? ? ? ? <*>? ? ? ? ? <*> > Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > Callers(a)sharedweight.net > http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > Callers(a)sharedweight.net > http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2014 11:01:18 -0800 > From: Erik Hoffman <erik(a)erikhoffman.com> > To: rich sbardella <richsbardella(a)snet.net>, Caller's discussion list > <callers(a)sharedweight.net> > Subject: Re: [Callers] Planned vs. "on-the-fly" call wording (was Re: > Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance) > Message-ID: <52FE67FE.3000002(a)erikhoffman.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > I agree with Rich, that, when the need arises, calling all the way > through is good. It's even better when the caller is entertaining, which > Rich's description, below, seems to indicate. > > That word, entertainment, deserves some attention. A caller that calls > in tune, is far more entertaining than one who chants out of tune. A > caller who has a sense of rhythm, and can adjust her calls to the rhythm > of the band also brings a sense of entertainment. And, a caller who has > a number of ways to describe movements can add to both the understanding > and the music. > > Ways to check this out: Record Yourself & Listen. Record others and > listen. Absorb good ideas. Think about how you might describe things. > Listen to walk-throughs as well as calling with the band. Learn an > instrument. Just spending time with a piano, guitar, fiddle, mandolin, > or even a tuba will give you more of a sense of how the music works. > Take voice lessons, ask trusted people for feedback. Etc. > > I'd also say, decide what kind of calling you want to do. Do you want to > call to beginners? Or do you favor calling to experienced dancers? > Squares? Or just contras? All these things may help you focus on the > particular needs of that type of calling. > > ~erik hoffman > oakland, ca > > > On 2/14/2014 10:09 AM, rich sbardella wrote: >> I attended a well established open contra dance recently with at least 50% newbies. The caller did an excellent job teaching and calling contras, but his method was more like a square dance caller. He seldom stopped calling and had lots of descriptive words for the dancers. Several dancers throughout the night told me how easy it was to dance to this caller, and how good his calls were. I did not hear one complaint from the dancers, or musicians, that he never stopped calling. Additionally, the caller went out of his way several times to bring the attention to the excellent musicians playing beside him. The dance was very successful, and the caller (calls) very entertaining. >> >> There are few callers capable of delivering that kind of program, and even fewer who do. It was a welcomed change for me, and for many of the dancers at the event. >> >> Rich Sbardella >> Stafford, CT >> >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2014 20:31:45 -0800 (PST) > From: Robert Livingston <rlivngstn(a)yahoo.com> > To: rich sbardella <richsbardella(a)snet.net>, Caller's discussion list > <callers(a)sharedweight.net> > Subject: Re: [Callers] Planned vs. "on-the-fly" call wording (was Re: > Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance) > Message-ID: > <1392438705.4406.YahooMailNeo(a)web122303.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Love the musical cadence of a caller. > > > > > ________________________________ > From: rich sbardella <richsbardella(a)snet.net> > To: Caller's discussion list <callers(a)sharedweight.net> > Sent: Friday, February 14, 2014 1:09 PM > Subject: Re: [Callers] Planned vs. "on-the-fly" call wording (was Re: Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance) > > > I attended a well established open contra dance recently with at least?50% newbies.? The caller did an excellent job teaching and calling contras, but his method was more like a square dance caller.? He seldom stopped calling and had lots of descriptive words for the dancers.? Several dancers throughout the night told me how easy it was to dance to this caller, and how good his calls were.? I did not hear one complaint from the dancers, or musicians, that he never stopped calling.? Additionally, the caller went out of his way several times to bring the attention to the excellent musicians playing beside him.? The dance was very successful, and the caller (calls)?very entertaining. > > There are few callers capable of delivering that kind of program, and even fewer who do.? It was a welcomed change for me, and for many of the dancers at the event.? > > Rich Sbardella > Stafford, CT > > > ________________________________ > From: Harold E. Watson <hwatson(a)uark.edu> > To: Caller's discussion list <callers(a)sharedweight.net> > Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 5:16 PM > Subject: Re: [Callers] Planned vs. "on-the-fly" call wording (was Re: Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance) > ? > > I know most our dancers are still listening because if I ever lose my place and miss-call the next figure, half will try to do what I said (usually the beginners) and the other half will loudly pronounce the correct move.? When I do booboo, after the dance I always compliment the dancers on their masterful recovery, even if they didn't have one. > > I also try to drop out as early as practical.? It's usually as switch from full calling to single words, and finally to maybe a word once every 32 bars at a place that may have tricky timing or to get everyone back in sync with each other. > > ........Circle left > .......Neighbor swing > ...Long lines forward and back > ...Ladies allemande right 1-1/2 > > To > > ........Circle > ........Neighbor > ......Forward and back > ........Ladies > > Harold > > > -----Original Message----- > From: callers-bounces(a)sharedweight.net [mailto:callers-bounces@sharedweight.net] On Behalf Of Aahz Maruch > Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 3:35 PM > To: callers(a)sharedweight.net > Subject: Re: [Callers] Planned vs. "on-the-fly" call wording (was Re: Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance) > > On Thu, Feb 13, 2014, Jonathan Sivier wrote: >> >> ? ? I like to change around the exact words I use during a dance.? In >> part to keep myself and the dancers alert.? Also if a given phrase >> doesn't work for someone then the next time through if I say something >> slightly different it may make more sense for them.? Also if some part >> of the dance seems to be causing problems for some of the dancers I >> may change the words I'm using in order to, hopefully, help them out. > > Does anyone have evidence that dancers pay attention to the caller after the first few iterations?? I certainly don't, and my limited experience as a caller indicates that few do (if any). > -- > Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? http://rule6.info/ > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? <*>? ? ? ? ?? <*>? ? ? ? ?? <*> > Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > Callers(a)sharedweight.net > http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > Callers(a)sharedweight.net > http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > Callers(a)sharedweight.net > http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2014 21:24:41 -0800 > From: Greg McKenzie <grekenzie(a)gmail.com> > To: rich sbardella <richsbardella(a)snet.net>, "Caller's discussion > list" <callers(a)sharedweight.net> > Subject: Re: [Callers] Planned vs. "on-the-fly" call wording (was Re: > Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance) > Message-ID: > <CAFqkWLt3TkWDYKshNLdKRagni_euVth9GCsMcqQ0HEqtjJC-fQ(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Rich wrote: > >> I attended a well established open contra dance recently with at least 50% >> newbies. The caller did an excellent job teaching and calling contras, but >> his method was more like a square dance caller. He seldom stopped calling >> and had lots of descriptive words for the dancers. Several dancers >> throughout the night told me how easy it was to dance to this caller, and >> how good his calls were. I did not hear one complaint from the dancers, or >> musicians, that he never stopped calling. > > > There is definitely a difference in style and preference here. I really > respect a caller who can entertain in this way. But it does not "work" for > me like most of the dances I attend. I come for the music and the people > and I love a caller who facilitates a connection between the music and the > dancers. That is plenty "entertaining" for me. Connecting with the caller > is not so much of a draw for me. If the caller "fills the room" with his > personality and voice...well, I generally start looking for another room. > > But, that's just how I roll on this. I like to be an integral part of the > event and feel I have a role in making the connections happen. I don't go > to be entertained by the caller. > > Oh...and I don't get any complaints when I call either. Dancers are a very > kind and generous bunch, I think. (And I make it my business to seek out > complaints.) > > To each his own. > > - Greg Mckenzie > West Coast, USA > > ********* > > >> Additionally, the caller went out of his way several times to bring the >> attention to the excellent musicians playing beside him. The dance was >> very successful, and the caller (calls) very entertaining. >> >> There are few callers capable of delivering that kind of program, and even >> fewer who do. It was a welcomed change for me, and for many of the dancers >> at the event. >> >> Rich Sbardella >> Stafford, CT >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: Harold E. Watson <hwatson(a)uark.edu> >> To: Caller's discussion list <callers(a)sharedweight.net> >> Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 5:16 PM >> Subject: Re: [Callers] Planned vs. "on-the-fly" call wording (was Re: >> Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance) >> >> >> I know most our dancers are still listening because if I ever lose my >> place and miss-call the next figure, half will try to do what I said >> (usually the beginners) and the other half will loudly pronounce the >> correct move. When I do booboo, after the dance I always compliment the >> dancers on their masterful recovery, even if they didn't have one. >> >> I also try to drop out as early as practical. It's usually as switch from >> full calling to single words, and finally to maybe a word once every 32 >> bars at a place that may have tricky timing or to get everyone back in sync >> with each other. >> >> ........Circle left >> .......Neighbor swing >> ...Long lines forward and back >> ...Ladies allemande right 1-1/2 >> >> To >> >> ........Circle >> ........Neighbor >> ......Forward and back >> ........Ladies >> >> Harold >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: callers-bounces(a)sharedweight.net [mailto: >> callers-bounces(a)sharedweight.net] On Behalf Of Aahz Maruch >> Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 3:35 PM >> To: callers(a)sharedweight.net >> Subject: Re: [Callers] Planned vs. "on-the-fly" call wording (was Re: >> Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance) >> >> On Thu, Feb 13, 2014, Jonathan Sivier wrote: >>> >>> I like to change around the exact words I use during a dance. In >>> part to keep myself and the dancers alert. Also if a given phrase >>> doesn't work for someone then the next time through if I say something >>> slightly different it may make more sense for them. Also if some part >>> of the dance seems to be causing problems for some of the dancers I >>> may change the words I'm using in order to, hopefully, help them out. >> >> Does anyone have evidence that dancers pay attention to the caller after >> the first few iterations? I certainly don't, and my limited experience as >> a caller indicates that few do (if any). >> -- >> Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6 >> http://rule6.info/ >> <*> <*> <*> >> Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html_____________________________________________… >> Callers mailing list >> Callers(a)sharedweight.net >> http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers >> _______________________________________________ >> Callers mailing list >> Callers(a)sharedweight.net >> http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers >> _______________________________________________ >> Callers mailing list >> Callers(a)sharedweight.net >> http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers >> > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > Callers(a)sharedweight.net > http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers > > > End of Callers Digest, Vol 114, Issue 26 > ****************************************

11 years, 4 months

Circling 3/4 and pass thru

by jean francis

Greg M wrote in response to a post by Jim Saxe : "The dancers in your video look like a competent group of regulars who are able to adapt to poorly-structured calls quickly and graciously. I'm sure they have a lot of practice at it. I find it very productive to be more diligent in my own calling." Referring to 3 videos sent by Jim Saxe, the calling on those videos by Steve Zakon- Anderson, Karen Jackson and Maggie Cowan. YOWIE! Is this paragraph really the bashing of these callers that it seems?

11 years, 4 months

Re: [Callers] Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance

by John Sweeney

Responding to a couple of points: If you don't like saying "beats", say "steps": "You usually have 8 steps for a circle, for this one you only have six steps". To get them round a circle faster without going into too much detail use phrases such as: "You need to get around this circle a little faster, you'll find it easier if you put your elbows down and your hands up" - demonstrate - this tends to make the circle smaller and increases connection so the better dancers have a chance of pulling the slower ones round. Happy dancing, John John Sweeney, Dancer, England john(a)modernjive.com 01233 625 362 http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent

11 years, 4 months

Re: [Callers] Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance

by Donna Hunt

Personally I prefer that the "regular dancers" do not verbally "teach" the new dancers. Contrary to what you've described I find that what I have learned to say succinctly and clearly during my years of calling will take a "regular dancer" 2 or 3x the amount of time to say and by that time the new dancer is late for the next move AND has learned not to listen to the caller. Please consider that some "regular dancers" who are dancing with beginners are trying to impress them with their knowledge rather than assisting the new dancers to learn quickly and correctly. I agree that taking "a second to mention" (as John suggested) tricky timing or the execution of a move "Ladies Chain: Ladies give right hands pull by give your left to the gent for a courtesy turn" takes no more time to explain than it takes the dancers to walk it through. Of course this much detail is for the first and possibly second Ladies Chain of the evening and NOT every time. I prefer that the "regulars" teach by example and "show" by action as I explain with words. I do not endorse "A caller who jabbers constantly" (as you wrote)... but to "drip-feed good ideas" (as John suggested) throughout the evening, taking a few seconds here and a few seconds, I believe, will help create a more cohesive dance experience for all on the floor. Donna Hunt -----Original Message----- From: Greg McKenzie <grekenzie(a)gmail.com> To: Caller's discussion list <callers(a)sharedweight.net> Sent: Tue, Feb 11, 2014 4:56 pm Subject: Re: [Callers] Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance John wrote: Read also mentioned "avoidance of teaching". > > But we ARE teachers. You may CALL it a walk-through, but what you are > actually doing is TEACHING the dance. And if the dance will work better if > you point out some key items then go head and point them out, i.e. teach! > I know that many of us love teaching. In fact it seems to be one reason many take up calling in the first place. But teaching from the mike at an open, public contra dance can be very counterproductive...particularly with regard to your efforts to integrate first-timers into the fun. You love to teach. But so do most of the regular dancers. A big part of the fun of partnering with newcomers is being able to guide them through the dance and share your passion for this wonderful dance form. While the caller is teaching verbally it is almost impossible for the regulars to enjoy their own "teaching" role. If you really want the regulars to partner with first-timers one of the key "tricks" is to make sure the regulars will have time to take the lead and "teach" their partner during the walk through. This is what makes partnering with regulars fun, And that is why I try to keep my prompts to an absolute minimum during the walk-through. A caller who jabbers constantly during the walk-through can transform the joy of a collaborative learning experience into a dreadful chore as the regulars are required to stand by silently while the caller *explains *a move that they could *show *their partner in less time than it would take the caller to say the *name *of the move. And later the caller will complain that it is so hard to get the regulars to partner with first-timers. Instead of "explaining" that a circle takes only "6 counts" I would gently suggest that callers consider simply giving the prompt "pass through" so that it ends precisely two counts before the end of the phrase. That way you can "say it all" with only two words and the dancers get to keep moving in time with the live music. Make it fun! Just a thought. Greg McKenzie West Coast, USA _______________________________________________ Callers mailing list Callers(a)sharedweight.net http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers

11 years, 4 months

Re: [Callers] Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance

by John W Gintell

There are several other factors that effect this move. Sometime it is what happened before the circle causes the circle to start late because some people aren't there on time. And if you are in the circle and the fourth person isn't quite there do those who are there trust that they'll catch up and thus start the circle on time or do you wait until they are there thus not even giving you 6 counts for the circle. It is also surprising to discover how many people (and I don't mean only beginners) don't actually understand the 8-beat phrase - and depending on what the band is doing there may not be quite enough reinforcement. For people with no musical education - and there are lot more of them these days because school budgeting problems - phrases and beats are a foreign concept. And they are not going to absorb much through much popular music and butchered Star Spangled Banners sung at sports events. > Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2014 17:42:21 -0500 > From: Read Weaver <rweaver(a)igc.org> > To: Caller's discussion list <callers(a)sharedweight.net> > Subject: [Callers] Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance > Message-ID: <8BCE1A2D-60EB-4067-957D-5E19B2826708(a)igc.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > In the last few years, I find myself dancing a lot more dances that end with > Circle left 3 places and pass through > > What I find is that about 3/4 of the dancers take 8 counts to do the circle 3 places, then a brief but indeterminate amount of time to do the pass through, and then arrive late to the next couple & next figure. (The other 1/4 take 6 counts to circle, 2 to pass through, and are then on the music's phrasing for the next figure.) > > It seems to me likely that this is frustrating to almost everyone. The "eight and late" dancers think "what a stupid dance, I can't get where I'm supposed to be in time," and the "6 + 2" dancers think "why are 3/4 of the people not here when I get here?" > > I haven't done a careful study, but I did just go to an experienced dance, and my impression is that the 3/4 - 1/4 ratio doesn't change with level of experience (though the experienced dancers, whatever their timing is, do it with more confidence). And I don't think there's anything all that surprising about that: we hardly do anything in contras to a count of 6 or 2. (If I've noticed any pattern, it's that contra dancers who also do English are more likely to dance it 6+2.) I do it 6+2, since it's the only way I can see to both dance to the phrasing and not be late to the next figure. > > It seems like a caller could point it out which might help some (though dancers' experience that everything is in a count of 8 or 4 is pretty ingrained), but the avoidance of teaching seems to prevent that--I don't recall any caller ever saying anything about it. > > Have others noticed it as an issue? (And am I right that it's a relatively recent issue?) Thoughts on what to do about it, if anything? > > --Read Weaver > Jamaica Plain, MA > http://lcfd.org >

11 years, 4 months

Re: [Callers] Calling weddings and private parties

by Child, Jeremy

Sorry for the late reply - I had problems sending to the list. I agree absolutely with your comments - and especially that you need simple proper dances. I do a lot of weddings and have devised a few(!) rules / tricks to make them go well: * Never call a contra, and rarely a proper longways - they find the "1s work their way down, 2s work their way up" too complicated. * Start with a dance that allows you to test their ability, not just to dance but to listen to the caller and do what they're told! A good mixer will do for this - Lucky 7 or Scatter Promenade * Keep the moves simple, and don't introduce too many new ones at once. I rarely do Ladies Chains, for example. * Start with simple dances and progress from there - so a grand chain starts as a special move but later becomes just something they do. * Don't feel the need to include too many clever moves - you can get a lot out of stars and circles! * Have a collection of 20 or so simple dances at your disposal * Be ready for not many people on the dance floor - plenty of three and four couple dances, just in case. * Equally have some "space saving" dances, in case everyone wants to get up. * Use dances that can take variable numbers of couples. At a wedding, if 7 couples get up to dance you need to get all 7 dancing. * Don't be afraid to write your own simple dances (about half of mine I wrote myself). * Have a supply of "sexless" dances - where you don't have to call "men" or "women". This is especially important if you have a number of children. * On the subject of children, if you have very young ones avoid dances which change partner, or allow them to keep their partner while everyone else changes. * Use dances that are easy to recover from when they go wrong - and tell them how ("if you don't have anyone to swing come and stand in the middle") * Use dances where one person / couple going wrong doesn't mess it up for everyone else * Use dances with leeway in them - one set will always end up well behind and need recovery time * Once you get going in a dance, Be prepared to call it "unphrased" if they're just not getting through it in time - and warn the band beforehand if you can! * Calling from the floor with a radio mike helps a lot, as you have: * The ability to correct a particular person / set having difficulties during the walkthrough * The ability to correct a person / set during the actual dance * Much better engagement with the audience than standing on the stage Regards Jeremy www.barndancecaller.net<http://www.barndancecaller.net>

11 years, 4 months

Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance

by Read Weaver

In the last few years, I find myself dancing a lot more dances that end with Circle left 3 places and pass through What I find is that about 3/4 of the dancers take 8 counts to do the circle 3 places, then a brief but indeterminate amount of time to do the pass through, and then arrive late to the next couple & next figure. (The other 1/4 take 6 counts to circle, 2 to pass through, and are then on the music's phrasing for the next figure.) It seems to me likely that this is frustrating to almost everyone. The "eight and late" dancers think "what a stupid dance, I can't get where I'm supposed to be in time," and the "6 + 2" dancers think "why are 3/4 of the people not here when I get here?" I haven't done a careful study, but I did just go to an experienced dance, and my impression is that the 3/4 - 1/4 ratio doesn't change with level of experience (though the experienced dancers, whatever their timing is, do it with more confidence). And I don't think there's anything all that surprising about that: we hardly do anything in contras to a count of 6 or 2. (If I've noticed any pattern, it's that contra dancers who also do English are more likely to dance it 6+2.) I do it 6+2, since it's the only way I can see to both dance to the phrasing and not be late to the next figure. It seems like a caller could point it out which might help some (though dancers' experience that everything is in a count of 8 or 4 is pretty ingrained), but the avoidance of teaching seems to prevent that--I don't recall any caller ever saying anything about it. Have others noticed it as an issue? (And am I right that it's a relatively recent issue?) Thoughts on what to do about it, if anything? --Read Weaver Jamaica Plain, MA http://lcfd.org

11 years, 4 months

Re: [Callers] Programming on-the-fly

by Sue Robishaw

Hi, I'm a fairly new caller as well and here are some thing that have helped me. I 1 - Have a master list of dances in rough order of difficulty so I can quickly go to the beginning, middle, or end for ideas on what to call depending on my dancers. I gave up on a formal "program" after the first couple of dances. 2 - Code the dances for type and mix them in the list (circle, contra, mixer, starting or main figure...) to help keep variety. 3 - Have different lists for3cpl, 4 cpl, 5-6, 7+ groupings (this probably won't pertain to you but where I am a hall full of dancers isn't likely!) 4 - Print out eight dances per side on paper (colored paper helps organize) in more or less the same order, easily folded and stuck in my belt pouch so I can quickly glance at a dance to jogg my memory. My dances are small and I'm on the floor and often dancing so quick and easy is important. The dances are also marked with 3, 4, etc cples tomake it easier to grab a right one. To have a "large" group of any kind would be a delight! Congratulations! But I've learned to enjoy 3 and 4 couple nights. Again this probably doesn't pertain to your situation but I've found it easier on me to rewrite the dances to suit different number of couples and have each one printed that way (unless it's a very simple change). I'm getting better at being able to do this on my feet, and have had to do so more than I like, but I like the security of having it written out, especially if I have a lot of new dancers to pay attention to. The same for changes that make a dance easier or harder. I really like dances that are easily adapted and can be used in a variety of situations. As others have noted, new dancers continually surprise me with what they can do (and can't) do. It depends on your dancers of course and the dance atmosphere, but I've found as long as we laugh and have a good time even the meltdowns can add to the evening. It's the fun that counts, not the dance. Cheers from the snowy U.P. (of Michigan) Sue Robishaw

11 years, 4 months

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