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4362 discussions

Re: [Callers] Callers Digest, Vol 18, Issue 17

by tavi merrill via Callers

i like where this is going. Folks who want to keep the g-word would have to prove it didn't come from 1620s "unconventional; outdoor" (but we know where that came from, and from the bohemian sense also where hipsters/YUCCYs came from though that was some pretty interesting cultural evolution, thank you Fitzgerald, love ADD). Ah, the arts of cajolery. That's a great phrase for what i was dancing around, godawful puns intended. The square callers have a great point with "dance around/walk around." Particularly Woody's point that it supplies facing generally and dancers do their creative best to cajole each other into swings. We can still call Becky Hill's "The Eyes Have It," but only because mad robin. > Message: 12 > Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 12:03:40 -0400 > From: Rich Sbardella via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> > To: Ron Blechner <contraron(a)gmail.com> > Cc: callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> > Subject: Re: [Callers] Advice about "gypsy" > Message-ID: > < > CAE4BujJ+22zv8mf4bZ185kf8fwRfzEiBZoSrohSmLn+LurfsfQ(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > In square dance, Indian Style is rarely used for single file promenade, > although it was prevalent just 25 years ago. It has slowly disappeared > replaced with just the descriptive language of "single file". > I often replace, "Single file Indian Style" with "Single file with a > smile". > I also beieve Walk around your Neighbor is a suitable, and perhaps the > best, replacement for Gypsy Neighbor or Gypsie around your Neighbor. It > already has the correct meaning for many dancers (eye contact optional), > and it easily translates from contra to common usage in squares. > Rich > Stafford, CT > > > On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 11:41 AM, Ron Blechner via Callers < > callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > > > Since "gypsy" as a contra/ECD term almost certainly refers to Romani, it > > differs from say, geological terms or whatnot. The swastika is a sad > thing, > > because the Nazis basically ruined it, even though they use a reverse > > direction version. > > > > That said, I'm not endorsing or not endorsing the change to the "gypsy" > > move, just stating that there are some clear differences.

9 years, 6 months

Re: [Callers] Advice about "gypsy"

by David Smukler via Callers

When calling, I’ve struggled with “gypsy,” not because of its unfortunate political reverberations (like Amy, I have used it without intending offense or realizing it might cause offense), but because for me it doesn’t roll trippingly off the tongue — I guess I don’t really like “verbing" nouns. I also completely agree with those who are uncomfortable with caller language that seems to require flirtation. People can and will flirt if they wish to, but it shouldn’t be suggested as a requirement. All this said, there is lots of choreography where I like the figure, and I’ve certainly used it. In some old square dance calls you sometimes hear “walk around your corner” for a move with similar geography. How about “walk around” as a straightforward, non-loaded alternative? David > From: Amy Wimmer via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net <mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net>> > Date: October 24, 2015 at 3:12:57 AM EDT > To: callers(a)sharedweight.net <mailto:callers@sharedweight.net> > Subject: [Callers] Advice about "gypsy" > > > Hello All, > > I taught a dance this evening that included a ladies' gypsy. I received the email below a few minutes ago. In teaching it I wanted to convey that it is a flirty, eye contact sort of move. This person was obviously offended. I am at a loss for how to respond, except to apologize for offending. > > I'm pretty sure I described the move accurately. I meant absolutely no offense. I didn't make up the name for the move, but don't want to make excuses. Does this move need a new name? How would you respond? > > -Amy > Seattle > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net <mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net> > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net <http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net>

9 years, 6 months

Re: [Callers] Advice about "gypsy"

by John Sweeney via Callers

When I was at university all the college servants were called gyps. According to my dictionary it may just as well have come from the name of a short jacket (obsolete English gippo derived from the obsolete French word jumeau). We are unlikely to ever know the true derivation of the word gypsy in a dance context. I've been using the word for 50 years and never, ever thought it had anything to do with gypsies! I believe we should accept that English is a rich language with many words having multiple meanings. To a dancer a gypsy is just the name of a move and has no other connotation, and a dance gypsy is someone who travels to dances. There is absolutely no negative or derogatory intent in our use of the word. And since when did the Romani have sole use of the word? There are 10,000 descendants of Irish gypsies in the USA, and DNA studies have shown that Irish gypsies are a distinct ethnic group. And what about the Egyptians? The word originally meant Egyptian! There are people who will read hidden meaning into anything you say. Please let's not let them take control of the English language. = = = = = The original letter is quite worrying. The writer says, "when the step was taught, it became clear that the term was so named based on stereotypes of Romani women as being overly sexual". I can't believe the caller said anything like that. This would appear to be all in the mind of the writer. And, "that term has been used to denigrate Romani people throughout history". I thought it was only used fairly recently as a derogatory term, and even then not generally. I have always thought it was just another word for a traveller and never known it to be negative. And, "some presumably unintentional racial insensitivity". No, it can't possibly be racial since it referred to a move and not a person. = = = = = Happy dancing, John John Sweeney, Dancer, England john(a)modernjive.com 01233 625 362 http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent

9 years, 6 months

Fw: Gypsy terms (Re: Callers Digest, Vol 18, Issue 16)

by Michael Fuerst via Callers

Hmmm...... Although I remain completely unperturbed by our new g-word, Fred Park's "a nose-to-nose do-si-do" description inspired other ideas for a surrogate. How about "dance [or orbit] around" or "dance [or orbit] about" ? Any of these are as easy or easier for a caller to proclaim than "do-si-do" or "ladies chain." Michael Fuerst 802 N Broadway Urbana IL 61801 217 239 5844 #yiv2862906804 #yiv2862906804 -- DIV {margin:0px;}#yiv2862906804

9 years, 6 months

Female caller for one-time beginners party on Long Island

by Jacob or Nancy Bloom via Callers

I've been contacted by someone who is looking for a female square dance caller for a party on Long Island, NY, in December or January. The attendees will be 50 twelve-year-old girls. If anyone would be interested in calling for this gig, please contact me off-list. Jacob Bloom jandnbloom(a)gmail.com

9 years, 6 months

Historical derivation of term "Gypsy"

by Jacob or Nancy Bloom via Callers

I've changed the name on the thread, to reflect the change of subject to historical background. I acknowledge Alan's point, that, unless a pre-Cecil Sharp source shows up for the use of the term 'gypsy' as a country dance figure, the bulk of my hypothesis falls apart. As for the use of the terms 'gyp' and 'gypsy' in Morris dance, *The Morris Book* by Cecil Sharp and Herbert Macilwaine defines the figure "Half-Hands or Half-Gip" in part I, page 65, and defines the figure "Whole-Gip or Gipsies" on page 32 of Part III. No explanation for the derivation of the terms is given in either volume. I do not have a copy of Sharp's Country Dance Book at hand. Did someone say that Sharp did not use the term gypsy in it? Jacob On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 4:40 AM, Alan Winston <winston(a)slac.stanford.edu> wrote: > > > On 10/24/15 10:32 PM, Jacob Nancy Bloom via Callers wrote: > > See the link below for more information on the dance The Spanish Gypsy (or > Jeepsie), the song from which the tune for the dance came, and the 1623 > play from which the song came, which had the title "The Spanish Gypsy". > > http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/lod/vol4/spanish_gipsy.html > > I'll go out on a limb and make some historical pronouncements which cannot > be proven, but which seem most probable to me: > > The dance title The Spanish Gypsy came from the dance being done to a tune > associated with the play The Spanish Gypsy. > > Sure, extremely plausible. > > The dance figure Gypsy got its name from the prevalence of the figure in > the dance The Spanish Gypsy. > > > If true, only true in the modern revival. (Basically, Cecil Sharp made up > *and named* the Gypsy figure. In Spanish Jeepsie - reconstructed at the > link you have above- the figure isn't a gypsy, and it isn't called a > gypsy. It's a back to back.) > > Point me toward dance notation published before 1900 that uses the term > "gypsy" as the name of a figure, and then we can talk. Until there's some > evidence that Elizabethan dancers used the figure name, your argument dies > here. > > The Morris dance figures whole-gyp and half-gyp were originally called > whole-gypsy and half-gypsy. (Although parts of England had and ancient > tradition of seasonal dancing under the name Morris Dance, it seems likely, > from the nature of the dances, that the form of the Cotswold dance > traditions collected by Cecil Sharp only went back to the Elizabethan > period.) > > I think you're saying that Cotswold dances as collected by Sharp and > others reflected Elizabethan country dances as shown in Playford, and that > whole-gyp and half-gyp were therefore originally named after the (notional) > country dance figure and were thus properly named whole-gypsy and > half-gypsy. Please correct me if I've misunderstood this. > > This is irrelevant unless you can show that Elizabethan country dance > actually had a figure called gypsy, which you haven't. (And it's actually > irrelevant even if you can, since once you draw a line from the play to the > tune to the dance you've said what you can about it not being an ethnic > stereotype.) > > But if it *were* relevant, I'd ask you to explain why these > Playford-following Elizabethan morris dancers used "half-gypsy" for what > Playford called "sides all". > > -- Alan >

9 years, 6 months

Gypsy terms (Re: Callers Digest, Vol 18, Issue 16)

by Suzanne Girardot via Callers

9 years, 6 months

Gypsies

by Andrea Nettleton via Callers

I don't like the idea that a term we use might be offensive to someone. I think part of its tenacity is that it can be used for a whole family of similar eye locking moves. The term walk around will not serve in what is now called a gypsy star, or in a traveling gypsy, gypsy chase, or gypsy hey, which all have eye contact as a common element. In discussing with dancers, I heard objection to the terms catching eyes, grabbing by the eyes etc. made them think of hands in eyes. Not that they didn't understand, but it was distasteful to them. Perhaps we could agree to a term like 'facing' to link the diverse moves together. It is used in squares in cases where instead of the usual facing someone's back, you are face to face (as in a facing diamond). This un-knots all the alternative moves (facing star, facing hey, travel facing). I don't actually think of a plain gypsy as involving a shoulder, but rather a side of my face. Go R face round your N, ladies L face round each other? Facing indicates where we should look more or less without demanding eye contact. I like eye contact, but some are profoundly uncomfortable with it. I dislike when they choose to twirl their bodies rather than at least look in my general direction. Facing helps with that. I'm sure we will come up with something better, but I'd like a solution that acknowledges this family of moves. I'm not fond of eddy, for its aural similarity to the name Eddie. Spiral, vortex etc, while all sort of indicative of rotation, also indicate to me the funnel effect, which is not the only way we use the move. Many gypsies merely move us smoothly on to another dancer. One final thought, offered mostly for grins. I have occasionally thought of a gypsy as two people walking round a maypole. We could say R maypole round your N, Ladies L maypole in the center, go one and a half to your P, R maypole and swing your partner. :D Andrea Sent from my iOnlypretendtomultitask > On Oct 25, 2015, at 12:56 PM, Joy Greenwolfe via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > > I once had someone explain the gypsy as not trusting someone enough to take their eyes off of them (!), so I agree that the underlying meaning can be problematic, to say the least. Other moves have historical meanings too, but Gypsy as a term is more pejorative than, say, Allemande, which references traditional German folk dance hand holds. > > I like Michael's suggestion for "eyes." When teaching, it could be described as "walk around holding eyes," which is similar to how I already describe it (holding eyes instead of hands). Then during the dance, the call could be shortened to "eyes" or "hold eyes." Something like "Ladies hold eyes" seems to roll off the tongue with a good rhythm. Or maybe "Ladies by the eyes?" > > Melting could still be melting. Not sure how I'd fix my gypsy chase move, though. > > There is also the issue of avoiding similar directions that would confuse the dancers, such as in a Mad Robin where you are encouraged to hold eyes with the person across from you, but not actually rotate around them. Maybe we need an alternate descriptive/evocative term, like the way a Mad Robin is sometimes called Sliding Doors. > > A single orbit? Eyes single? Star single? Hands off? > > I'm also curious about thoughts about to what degree we might explain the change to dancers. From most of the dancers' perspective, it may be "if it ain't broke, don't change it." We might get push-back from dancers exasperated with what seems to them like an arbitrary term change. Maybe if the term is more descriptive, they won't notice as much. "Holding Eyes" works for me. > > Just some thoughts. > > Joy Greenwolfe > Durham, NC > > >

9 years, 6 months

Re: [Callers] Amy Asked For A Less Loaded Term (formerly "Advice on gypsy")

by tavi merrill via Callers

A couple thoughts i left out of the first message: I suggest "take eyes" rather than "lock eyes" because it's a less forceful/invasive phrasing and because it mirrors "take right hands," "take hands four" et cetera. And yes, i've seen others' comments to the effect that some find eye contact uncomfortable, but eyes are the primary connection between dancers in that move, so i see no reason to shy away from including that information in teaching and prompting, and those who find eye contact uncomfortable can continue avoiding it - as they do anyway, regardless of what the move is called.

9 years, 6 months

Amy Asked For A Less Loaded Term (formerly "Advice on gypsy")

by tavi merrill via Callers

With regard to the term's offensiveness or lack thereof, i am less interested in the exact origins of the term's use within ECD than i am in the implications in pairing the term with that particular move. To be "gypped" is to be cheated, a term rooted in stereotypes of Romani people as untrustworthy, and the eyes are associated with gypsies in popular lore that ascribes a certain mystery or hypnotic power to the gypsy's gaze. While i am aware of both people who are offended by the term and people who take pride in it (hmm, how is that different from the N word? or fag?) i find the term itself less problematic than the web of association among the term, the eyes, mystery, hypnosis and criminality. Alternatives to "gypsy" have thus been on my radar for some time now. Most of the suggestions - orbit, vortex, yada yada - are dismissible, which leads me to a very simple suggestion. While flirtation isn't necessary to the move, eye contact is kind of the point of it. I had forgotten to explicitly teach the move at a recent gig with a number of beginners and just decided to prompt "eyes." It was magic. While i haven't yet pressed this into service: "Take eyes with your [partner/neighbor] and, without hands, turn by the [R/L]." As a prompt, "eyes" has so much more sense and grace to it than any other term that's been suggested. Associated moves (gypsy chase, gypsy star, etc) are another bridge to cross. Personally, i would feel comfortable removing the term from my calling as the name of that particular move without feeling a need to eschew or sanitize dances with the term in the title. I mean, Amy Asked for Eyes is a little awkward ;)

9 years, 6 months

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