Contra Callers February 2014

contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net

84 participants
55 discussions

by Hgrastorf＠aol.com

For me (a short person -- but only on the outside), a problem I occasionally have with some tall dancers is the failure to take relative arm length differential into consideration during the swing. If his left arm is nearly straight, my right is hyperextended and I'm off balance. April Blum

11 years, 1 month

Re: [Callers] Subject: Height diffferential

by John W Gintell

I've noticed some tall dancers bend their knees and stoop a bit to make them closer to the height of the person they are swinging with. A very nice gesture. > Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2014 09:23:35 -0500 > From: George Mercer <geopmercer(a)gmail.com> > To: "Caller's discussion list" <callers(a)sharedweight.net> > Subject: [Callers] Height diffferential > Message-ID: > <CACRi76uc=H2hPBCN0DKrX_e9UDBkZjEDYbPYJq=qFq9dbFMmGw(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > A number of years ago I danced a number of times with a woman who was much > shorter than me. I am about 5'6" or so on a good day. She was probably > 4'8" give or take an inch. When we'd go into a swing, as my arm went around > her to her back, she'd lock her left arm down so that I could hardly get my > right hand past her side. At first I thought it was bad form on her part, > but let it be. Then as I watched her dance with others, I realized that > when her co-swinger managed to get his arm around her to the "normal" place > it had the result of lifting her left side up to what appeared to me to be > a discomfort level. The taller the man, the further her left side was > forced to go. I had to learn a new approach to entering a swing, even to > lean toward bad form when the height of the other dancer led me to an > adjusted approach. I'm not suggesting we should teach this, but thinking > about how your technique (good or bad) can cause another discomfort is > worth thinking about. Over the year I've danced enough with men that I've > also experienced discomfort with this height differential. Just thinking > out loud. Thanks. >

11 years, 1 month

Re: [Callers] Dances with three or more allemandes

by Jerome Grisanti

Aahz wrote to Erik: > > I have no idea what you mean by "guideposts", though; from my POV either > the thumbs are interlocked or they're not. (If each person's thumb can > touch the other person's webbing between thumb and forefinger they're > interlocked.) > I believe most dancers can make a distinction between holding your hand in a position (e.g. with interlocking thumbs), and gripping based on that same position. How can we best communicate that difference? I ask people to feel the connection through their entire arm, and their entire body, and I avoid the term "grip" as well. Also, I find that when the music is faster than people are comfortable with, they tend to grip more -- so before asking the dancers to change I might first start with the band or other factors. I also remind dancers that they will eventually let go of the hand connection they've made, and to make sure they allow other dancers to leave them comfortably. Also, Lindsay spoke of saying "ouch," adjusting the offending hand, and saying "sorry, carpal tunnel." This has the benefit of making it about him -- "this is what works for me" -- moreso than making it about the other person -- "you're doing it wrong." Hard to do in a short time without practice, but worth practicing that attitude as a dancer so you can communicate quickly and effectively. (Upon re-reading, this does appear to support scripting comments for common quandaries). --Jerome -- Jerome Grisanti 660-528-0858 http://www.jeromegrisanti.com "We should consider every day lost on which we have not danced at least once." -- Friedrich Nietzsche

11 years, 1 month

Re: [Callers] Allemandes

by joda_rogers

OK, I don't usually enter these discussions because, although I find reading the posts interesting, by the time I see them, every possible opinion has already been expressed, with approximately equal vehemence on all sides, and as a result I don't usually feel that I have much to add. However, in this case I'll chime in that I agree with Eric, that the interlocking thumbs is rather nice, at least for those who can tolerate it. For one thing, it is how I learned to dance, and it feels more "right" that way. For another, it provides (in my opinion) a more firm connection between the dancers. (Here, Larry Jennings' description - in Zesty Contras - of what he called a "zesty" dancing style comes to mind.) But, as I point out in my beginners' sessions, some people - I am married to one - prefer not to have their thumbs involved, so they will come to you "without a thumb showing"… so, take what they give you and work with it. No big deal. Someone pointed out that the interlocking thumb grip doesn't fit their style of dancing, because (I gather) they do a lot of spinning, or something. That's fine, don't use the interlocking grip. In fact, please don't. No big deal. My main point is that personally, I would find it a loss if the interlocking grip went away entirely. I enjoy using it with others who know how to use it. On Feb 17, 2014, at 9:00 AM, callers-request(a)sharedweight.net wrote: > Send Callers mailing list submissions to > callers(a)sharedweight.net > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > callers-request(a)sharedweight.net > > You can reach the person managing the list at > callers-owner(a)sharedweight.net > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Callers digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Dances with three or more allemandes (Michael Fuerst) > 2. Re: Dances with three or more allemandes (Michael Dyck) > 3. Re: allemandes (Russell Frank) > 4. Re: Dances with three or more allemandes (Jerome Grisanti) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2014 09:43:11 -0800 (PST) > From: Michael Fuerst <mjerryfuerst(a)yahoo.com> > To: Caller's discussion list <callers(a)sharedweight.net> > Subject: Re: [Callers] Dances with three or more allemandes > Message-ID: > <1392572591.59857.YahooMailNeo(a)web140705.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Thanks you Joy and Les for the suggested dances. ? ? > Does anyone have additional suggestions? > I think what I had in mind are dances where everyone allemandes 1 1/2 at least once plus allemande 3/4 or more at least one additional time > ? > Michael Fuerst ? ? ?802 N Broadway ? ? ?Urbana IL 61801?????? 217-239-5844 > > > > On Sunday, February 16, 2014 10:25 AM, Aahz Maruch <aahz(a)pobox.com> wrote: > > On Sun, Feb 16, 2014, Erik Hoffman wrote: >> On 2/15/2014 10:32 PM, Aahz Maruch wrote: >>> On Sat, Feb 15, 2014, Michael Fuerst wrote: >>>> >>>> I should have said thumbs an wrapped around the other's hand. >>>> Interlocked was the wrong. >>> >>> <whew> I do know people who believe that interlocked thumbs are >>> correct, and I've been on a campaign to discourage the practice. ;-) >> >> So, Aahz, why do you want to eliminate it? I'm talking about the >> thumbs up as guideposts, fingers hooked around the others hand, a >> hook, not a grip, wrists straight, fingers curved. Is it just the >> safety issue? I play music. I teach music. I worry a lot about my >> hands! I have things I do to protect myself, and I don't let people >> grab and grip, or bend my wrist in some painful way. > > Oddly enough, as has been pointed out here, you are a somewhat large-ish > man -- that means your personal safety requirements are not necessarily > what's appropriate for the general dancer population. > > So yeah, it's pretty much all about safety from my POV.? Any kind of > spinning move out of allemande or wave risks yanking the thumb.? And > actually, my concern is more about waves than allemandes: the grip is > mostly the same for both and the spinning half-sashy is pretty much > standard these days. > > I have no idea what you mean by "guideposts", though; from my POV either > the thumbs are interlocked or they're not.? (If each person's thumb can > touch the other person's webbing between thumb and forefinger they're > interlocked.) > -- > Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? http://rule6.info/ > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? <*>? ? ? ? ? <*>? ? ? ? ? <*> > Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html > > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > Callers(a)sharedweight.net > http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2014 10:46:27 -0800 > From: Michael Dyck <jmdyck(a)ibiblio.org> > To: callers(a)sharedweight.net > Subject: Re: [Callers] Dances with three or more allemandes > Message-ID: <53010783.1040809(a)ibiblio.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > On 14-02-15 10:18 AM, Michael Fuerst wrote: >> >> So I am asking for dances which have at least three, and preferably four allemandes > > Searching my personal collection, I find: > > 6 allemandes: > "Al's Half a Heyday" [Al Olson] (but 2 are only 1/2) > > 5 allemandes: > "Jeffro's Tree" [Don Flaherty] > "Chuck the Budgie" [Rick Mohr] > "Remember the Alamo" [Gene Hubert] (but 4 are only 1/2) > > 4 allemandes: > "Two Whos in the Middle" [Al Olson] > "Chichester House Reel" [Steve Zakon] > "Dr Brown's Prescription" [David Kirchner] > > 4 allemandes, one of which is only 1/2: > "Coal Country Contra" [Ron Buchanan] > "Eric on Mondays" [David Kaynor] > "Al's Answer" [Al Olson -> David Kaynor] > "Hey in the Middle" [Tom Hinds] > "Thinking of John" [Erik Hoffman] > "Hull's Surprise" [Tom Hinds] > > 4 allemandes, two of which are only 1/2: > "Batja's Breakdown" [Tom Hinds] > "Ben's Spinoff #3" [Gene Hubert] > "Ben's Spinoff #2" [Gene Hubert] > "Southern Swing" [Steve Zakon] > "Fuller Park Fantasy" [Paul Balliet] > "Sunday on the Green" [Jim Kitch] (circle mixer) > > -Michael > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2014 11:40:45 -0800 > From: Russell Frank <russell.knarf(a)gmail.com> > To: callers(a)sharedweight.net > Subject: Re: [Callers] allemandes > Message-ID: > <CABSg-QF9RQavoNX5h_yaQCb12pwX3YeKRri=w26NsmEWk-TvHQ(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Allemandes are my most frequent subject for rants, so I'll weigh in here > (briefly) as a very experienced dancer/ inexperienced caller. As a dancer, > the thing I have found most helpful personally is to make sure to keep my > hand well away from my chest and at least somewhat to the side. This allows > me free movement and gives me room to adjust to whatever the other person > may be doing. If I want to give more or less weight, I can use my bicep, > without straining wrist and fingers. (I also need to take larger steps or > walk faster to get around.) I'm not sure anything an ordinary caller says > can help much at this point, but pointing out that the arm should be > extended seems non-controversial and might help. > > At least in theory, I'm in favor of using thumbs as guideposts, because > they almost guarantee a good hand alignment (in my opinion), which is hard > to achieve otherwise. Disengaging the thumbs is an option, but it often > doesn't happen in the heat of dancing. In practice, I understand the need > to dance defensively, but the avoidance of thumbs has created some awful > habits. > > Russell Frank > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2014 20:09:41 -0600 > From: Jerome Grisanti <jerome.grisanti(a)gmail.com> > To: callers(a)sharedweight.net > Subject: Re: [Callers] Dances with three or more allemandes > Message-ID: > <CAD6SnUS+KoxRp5v3f_K8O805GZDbskLmcz79_f_JRAjfU3bxBQ(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Aahz wrote to Erik: > >> >> I have no idea what you mean by "guideposts", though; from my POV either >> the thumbs are interlocked or they're not. (If each person's thumb can >> touch the other person's webbing between thumb and forefinger they're >> interlocked.) >> > > I believe most dancers can make a distinction between holding your hand in > a position (e.g. with interlocking thumbs), and gripping based on that same > position. How can we best communicate that difference? > > I ask people to feel the connection through their entire arm, and their > entire body, and I avoid the term "grip" as well. Also, I find that when > the music is faster than people are comfortable with, they tend to grip > more -- so before asking the dancers to change I might first start with the > band or other factors. > > I also remind dancers that they will eventually let go of the hand > connection they've made, and to make sure they allow other dancers to leave > them comfortably. > > Also, Lindsay spoke of saying "ouch," adjusting the offending hand, and > saying "sorry, carpal tunnel." This has the benefit of making it about him > -- "this is what works for me" -- moreso than making it about the other > person -- "you're doing it wrong." Hard to do in a short time without > practice, but worth practicing that attitude as a dancer so you can > communicate quickly and effectively. (Upon re-reading, this does appear to > support scripting comments for common quandaries). > > --Jerome > > -- > Jerome Grisanti > 660-528-0858 > http://www.jeromegrisanti.com > > "We should consider every day lost on which we have not danced at least > once." > -- Friedrich Nietzsche > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > Callers(a)sharedweight.net > http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers > > > End of Callers Digest, Vol 114, Issue 33 > **************************************** >

11 years, 1 month

A Call For Civility

by Greg McKenzie

Folks, There are a lot of different perspectives and opinions represented here. That is a great value of this list and we can all benefit from hearing the full spectrum of ideas. But please try to avoid personal attacks against anyone. If you disagree with someone we can still coexist and learn from one another. That is the value of this kind of media. Personal attacks will only stifle the free exchange of ideas. That free exchange is why we are here. We don't need to agree with everything posted here to maintain a civil and productive conversation. Sincerely, Greg McKenzie

11 years, 1 month

Re: [Callers] allemandes

by Russell Frank

Allemandes are my most frequent subject for rants, so I'll weigh in here (briefly) as a very experienced dancer/ inexperienced caller. As a dancer, the thing I have found most helpful personally is to make sure to keep my hand well away from my chest and at least somewhat to the side. This allows me free movement and gives me room to adjust to whatever the other person may be doing. If I want to give more or less weight, I can use my bicep, without straining wrist and fingers. (I also need to take larger steps or walk faster to get around.) I'm not sure anything an ordinary caller says can help much at this point, but pointing out that the arm should be extended seems non-controversial and might help. At least in theory, I'm in favor of using thumbs as guideposts, because they almost guarantee a good hand alignment (in my opinion), which is hard to achieve otherwise. Disengaging the thumbs is an option, but it often doesn't happen in the heat of dancing. In practice, I understand the need to dance defensively, but the avoidance of thumbs has created some awful habits. Russell Frank

11 years, 1 month

Re: [Callers] Callers Digest, Vol 114, Issue 26

by Martha Wild

I would just like to say that I stopped posting for a long time after some of Greg's comments on my posts. Now I just usually don't read his comments. Martha On Feb 14, 2014, at 9:24 PM, callers-request(a)sharedweight.net wrote: > Send Callers mailing list submissions to > callers(a)sharedweight.net > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > callers-request(a)sharedweight.net > > You can reach the person managing the list at > callers-owner(a)sharedweight.net > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Callers digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Circling 3/4 and pass thru (Greg McKenzie) > 2. Re: Planned vs. "on-the-fly" call wording (was Re: Circle & > pass through as the last move of a dance) (rich sbardella) > 3. Re: Planned vs. "on-the-fly" call wording (was Re: Circle & > pass through as the last move of a dance) (Erik Hoffman) > 4. Re: Planned vs. "on-the-fly" call wording (was Re: Circle & > pass through as the last move of a dance) (Robert Livingston) > 5. Re: Planned vs. "on-the-fly" call wording (was Re: Circle & > pass through as the last move of a dance) (Greg McKenzie) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2014 09:46:03 -0800 > From: Greg McKenzie <grekenzie(a)gmail.com> > To: "Caller's discussion list" <callers(a)sharedweight.net> > Subject: Re: [Callers] Circling 3/4 and pass thru > Message-ID: > <CAFqkWLvhZ7ZFRFuRb2UM5CPaY85G3z9pepyn_kGhcpi2MPAEww(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Someone wrote: > >> Greg M wrote in response to a post by Jim Saxe : >> "The dancers in your video look like a competent group of regulars who are >> able to adapt to poorly-structured calls quickly and graciously. I'm sure >> they have a lot of practice at it. I find it very productive to be more >> diligent in my own calling." >> >> YOWIE! Is this paragraph really the bashing of these callers that it seems? >> > > No it's not. No one is "bashing" anyone. > > Someone else wrote: > >> Yes, Greg is like that at times..... ;-) >> > > Hey folks. Let's please try to avoid personal attacks. It makes the > newcomers to the list nervous. > > Without some kind of critical comments there is no way we can advance any > tradition. When I am critical I try to be as even-handed as possible. In > the above case I mentioned no one. I was being critical of the behavior of > all callers...including myself (as I mentioned earlier in this thread.). > Ok, "The King has no clothes!" "Callers are human beings!" and all of us > make mistakes. I am amazed and grateful for the tolerance and graciousness > of the dancers when I call. If I look like a competent and capable caller > it is because of them. > > If you have critical comments about this or any of my other ideas I welcome > the discussion. > > - Greg McKenzie > West Coast, USA > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2014 10:09:14 -0800 (PST) > From: rich sbardella <richsbardella(a)snet.net> > To: Caller's discussion list <callers(a)sharedweight.net> > Subject: Re: [Callers] Planned vs. "on-the-fly" call wording (was Re: > Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance) > Message-ID: > <1392401354.35434.YahooMailNeo(a)web181501.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > I attended a well established open contra dance recently with at least?50% newbies.? The caller did an excellent job teaching and calling contras, but his method was more like a square dance caller.? He seldom stopped calling and had lots of descriptive words for the dancers.? Several dancers throughout the night told me how easy it was to dance to this caller, and how good his calls were.? I did not hear one complaint from the dancers, or musicians, that he never stopped calling.? Additionally, the caller went out of his way several times to bring the attention to the excellent musicians playing beside him.? The dance was very successful, and the caller (calls)?very entertaining. > > There are few callers capable of delivering that kind of program, and even fewer who do.? It was a welcomed change for me, and for many of the dancers at the event.? > > Rich Sbardella > Stafford, CT > > > ________________________________ > From: Harold E. Watson <hwatson(a)uark.edu> > To: Caller's discussion list <callers(a)sharedweight.net> > Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 5:16 PM > Subject: Re: [Callers] Planned vs. "on-the-fly" call wording (was Re: Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance) > > > I know most our dancers are still listening because if I ever lose my place and miss-call the next figure, half will try to do what I said (usually the beginners) and the other half will loudly pronounce the correct move.? When I do booboo, after the dance I always compliment the dancers on their masterful recovery, even if they didn't have one. > > I also try to drop out as early as practical.? It's usually as switch from full calling to single words, and finally to maybe a word once every 32 bars at a place that may have tricky timing or to get everyone back in sync with each other. > > ........Circle left > .......Neighbor swing > ...Long lines forward and back > ...Ladies allemande right 1-1/2 > > To > > ........Circle > ........Neighbor > ......Forward and back > ........Ladies > > Harold > > > -----Original Message----- > From: callers-bounces(a)sharedweight.net [mailto:callers-bounces@sharedweight.net] On Behalf Of Aahz Maruch > Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 3:35 PM > To: callers(a)sharedweight.net > Subject: Re: [Callers] Planned vs. "on-the-fly" call wording (was Re: Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance) > > On Thu, Feb 13, 2014, Jonathan Sivier wrote: >> >> ? ? I like to change around the exact words I use during a dance.? In >> part to keep myself and the dancers alert.? Also if a given phrase >> doesn't work for someone then the next time through if I say something >> slightly different it may make more sense for them.? Also if some part >> of the dance seems to be causing problems for some of the dancers I >> may change the words I'm using in order to, hopefully, help them out. > > Does anyone have evidence that dancers pay attention to the caller after the first few iterations?? I certainly don't, and my limited experience as a caller indicates that few do (if any). > -- > Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? http://rule6.info/ > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? <*>? ? ? ? ? <*>? ? ? ? ? <*> > Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > Callers(a)sharedweight.net > http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > Callers(a)sharedweight.net > http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2014 11:01:18 -0800 > From: Erik Hoffman <erik(a)erikhoffman.com> > To: rich sbardella <richsbardella(a)snet.net>, Caller's discussion list > <callers(a)sharedweight.net> > Subject: Re: [Callers] Planned vs. "on-the-fly" call wording (was Re: > Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance) > Message-ID: <52FE67FE.3000002(a)erikhoffman.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > I agree with Rich, that, when the need arises, calling all the way > through is good. It's even better when the caller is entertaining, which > Rich's description, below, seems to indicate. > > That word, entertainment, deserves some attention. A caller that calls > in tune, is far more entertaining than one who chants out of tune. A > caller who has a sense of rhythm, and can adjust her calls to the rhythm > of the band also brings a sense of entertainment. And, a caller who has > a number of ways to describe movements can add to both the understanding > and the music. > > Ways to check this out: Record Yourself & Listen. Record others and > listen. Absorb good ideas. Think about how you might describe things. > Listen to walk-throughs as well as calling with the band. Learn an > instrument. Just spending time with a piano, guitar, fiddle, mandolin, > or even a tuba will give you more of a sense of how the music works. > Take voice lessons, ask trusted people for feedback. Etc. > > I'd also say, decide what kind of calling you want to do. Do you want to > call to beginners? Or do you favor calling to experienced dancers? > Squares? Or just contras? All these things may help you focus on the > particular needs of that type of calling. > > ~erik hoffman > oakland, ca > > > On 2/14/2014 10:09 AM, rich sbardella wrote: >> I attended a well established open contra dance recently with at least 50% newbies. The caller did an excellent job teaching and calling contras, but his method was more like a square dance caller. He seldom stopped calling and had lots of descriptive words for the dancers. Several dancers throughout the night told me how easy it was to dance to this caller, and how good his calls were. I did not hear one complaint from the dancers, or musicians, that he never stopped calling. Additionally, the caller went out of his way several times to bring the attention to the excellent musicians playing beside him. The dance was very successful, and the caller (calls) very entertaining. >> >> There are few callers capable of delivering that kind of program, and even fewer who do. It was a welcomed change for me, and for many of the dancers at the event. >> >> Rich Sbardella >> Stafford, CT >> >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2014 20:31:45 -0800 (PST) > From: Robert Livingston <rlivngstn(a)yahoo.com> > To: rich sbardella <richsbardella(a)snet.net>, Caller's discussion list > <callers(a)sharedweight.net> > Subject: Re: [Callers] Planned vs. "on-the-fly" call wording (was Re: > Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance) > Message-ID: > <1392438705.4406.YahooMailNeo(a)web122303.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Love the musical cadence of a caller. > > > > > ________________________________ > From: rich sbardella <richsbardella(a)snet.net> > To: Caller's discussion list <callers(a)sharedweight.net> > Sent: Friday, February 14, 2014 1:09 PM > Subject: Re: [Callers] Planned vs. "on-the-fly" call wording (was Re: Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance) > > > I attended a well established open contra dance recently with at least?50% newbies.? The caller did an excellent job teaching and calling contras, but his method was more like a square dance caller.? He seldom stopped calling and had lots of descriptive words for the dancers.? Several dancers throughout the night told me how easy it was to dance to this caller, and how good his calls were.? I did not hear one complaint from the dancers, or musicians, that he never stopped calling.? Additionally, the caller went out of his way several times to bring the attention to the excellent musicians playing beside him.? The dance was very successful, and the caller (calls)?very entertaining. > > There are few callers capable of delivering that kind of program, and even fewer who do.? It was a welcomed change for me, and for many of the dancers at the event.? > > Rich Sbardella > Stafford, CT > > > ________________________________ > From: Harold E. Watson <hwatson(a)uark.edu> > To: Caller's discussion list <callers(a)sharedweight.net> > Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 5:16 PM > Subject: Re: [Callers] Planned vs. "on-the-fly" call wording (was Re: Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance) > ? > > I know most our dancers are still listening because if I ever lose my place and miss-call the next figure, half will try to do what I said (usually the beginners) and the other half will loudly pronounce the correct move.? When I do booboo, after the dance I always compliment the dancers on their masterful recovery, even if they didn't have one. > > I also try to drop out as early as practical.? It's usually as switch from full calling to single words, and finally to maybe a word once every 32 bars at a place that may have tricky timing or to get everyone back in sync with each other. > > ........Circle left > .......Neighbor swing > ...Long lines forward and back > ...Ladies allemande right 1-1/2 > > To > > ........Circle > ........Neighbor > ......Forward and back > ........Ladies > > Harold > > > -----Original Message----- > From: callers-bounces(a)sharedweight.net [mailto:callers-bounces@sharedweight.net] On Behalf Of Aahz Maruch > Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 3:35 PM > To: callers(a)sharedweight.net > Subject: Re: [Callers] Planned vs. "on-the-fly" call wording (was Re: Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance) > > On Thu, Feb 13, 2014, Jonathan Sivier wrote: >> >> ? ? I like to change around the exact words I use during a dance.? In >> part to keep myself and the dancers alert.? Also if a given phrase >> doesn't work for someone then the next time through if I say something >> slightly different it may make more sense for them.? Also if some part >> of the dance seems to be causing problems for some of the dancers I >> may change the words I'm using in order to, hopefully, help them out. > > Does anyone have evidence that dancers pay attention to the caller after the first few iterations?? I certainly don't, and my limited experience as a caller indicates that few do (if any). > -- > Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? http://rule6.info/ > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? <*>? ? ? ? ?? <*>? ? ? ? ?? <*> > Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > Callers(a)sharedweight.net > http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > Callers(a)sharedweight.net > http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > Callers(a)sharedweight.net > http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2014 21:24:41 -0800 > From: Greg McKenzie <grekenzie(a)gmail.com> > To: rich sbardella <richsbardella(a)snet.net>, "Caller's discussion > list" <callers(a)sharedweight.net> > Subject: Re: [Callers] Planned vs. "on-the-fly" call wording (was Re: > Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance) > Message-ID: > <CAFqkWLt3TkWDYKshNLdKRagni_euVth9GCsMcqQ0HEqtjJC-fQ(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Rich wrote: > >> I attended a well established open contra dance recently with at least 50% >> newbies. The caller did an excellent job teaching and calling contras, but >> his method was more like a square dance caller. He seldom stopped calling >> and had lots of descriptive words for the dancers. Several dancers >> throughout the night told me how easy it was to dance to this caller, and >> how good his calls were. I did not hear one complaint from the dancers, or >> musicians, that he never stopped calling. > > > There is definitely a difference in style and preference here. I really > respect a caller who can entertain in this way. But it does not "work" for > me like most of the dances I attend. I come for the music and the people > and I love a caller who facilitates a connection between the music and the > dancers. That is plenty "entertaining" for me. Connecting with the caller > is not so much of a draw for me. If the caller "fills the room" with his > personality and voice...well, I generally start looking for another room. > > But, that's just how I roll on this. I like to be an integral part of the > event and feel I have a role in making the connections happen. I don't go > to be entertained by the caller. > > Oh...and I don't get any complaints when I call either. Dancers are a very > kind and generous bunch, I think. (And I make it my business to seek out > complaints.) > > To each his own. > > - Greg Mckenzie > West Coast, USA > > ********* > > >> Additionally, the caller went out of his way several times to bring the >> attention to the excellent musicians playing beside him. The dance was >> very successful, and the caller (calls) very entertaining. >> >> There are few callers capable of delivering that kind of program, and even >> fewer who do. It was a welcomed change for me, and for many of the dancers >> at the event. >> >> Rich Sbardella >> Stafford, CT >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: Harold E. Watson <hwatson(a)uark.edu> >> To: Caller's discussion list <callers(a)sharedweight.net> >> Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 5:16 PM >> Subject: Re: [Callers] Planned vs. "on-the-fly" call wording (was Re: >> Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance) >> >> >> I know most our dancers are still listening because if I ever lose my >> place and miss-call the next figure, half will try to do what I said >> (usually the beginners) and the other half will loudly pronounce the >> correct move. When I do booboo, after the dance I always compliment the >> dancers on their masterful recovery, even if they didn't have one. >> >> I also try to drop out as early as practical. It's usually as switch from >> full calling to single words, and finally to maybe a word once every 32 >> bars at a place that may have tricky timing or to get everyone back in sync >> with each other. >> >> ........Circle left >> .......Neighbor swing >> ...Long lines forward and back >> ...Ladies allemande right 1-1/2 >> >> To >> >> ........Circle >> ........Neighbor >> ......Forward and back >> ........Ladies >> >> Harold >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: callers-bounces(a)sharedweight.net [mailto: >> callers-bounces(a)sharedweight.net] On Behalf Of Aahz Maruch >> Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 3:35 PM >> To: callers(a)sharedweight.net >> Subject: Re: [Callers] Planned vs. "on-the-fly" call wording (was Re: >> Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance) >> >> On Thu, Feb 13, 2014, Jonathan Sivier wrote: >>> >>> I like to change around the exact words I use during a dance. In >>> part to keep myself and the dancers alert. Also if a given phrase >>> doesn't work for someone then the next time through if I say something >>> slightly different it may make more sense for them. Also if some part >>> of the dance seems to be causing problems for some of the dancers I >>> may change the words I'm using in order to, hopefully, help them out. >> >> Does anyone have evidence that dancers pay attention to the caller after >> the first few iterations? I certainly don't, and my limited experience as >> a caller indicates that few do (if any). >> -- >> Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6 >> http://rule6.info/ >> <*> <*> <*> >> Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html_____________________________________________… >> Callers mailing list >> Callers(a)sharedweight.net >> http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers >> _______________________________________________ >> Callers mailing list >> Callers(a)sharedweight.net >> http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers >> _______________________________________________ >> Callers mailing list >> Callers(a)sharedweight.net >> http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers >> > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > Callers(a)sharedweight.net > http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers > > > End of Callers Digest, Vol 114, Issue 26 > ****************************************

11 years, 1 month

Circling 3/4 and pass thru

by jean francis

Greg M wrote in response to a post by Jim Saxe : "The dancers in your video look like a competent group of regulars who are able to adapt to poorly-structured calls quickly and graciously. I'm sure they have a lot of practice at it. I find it very productive to be more diligent in my own calling." Referring to 3 videos sent by Jim Saxe, the calling on those videos by Steve Zakon- Anderson, Karen Jackson and Maggie Cowan. YOWIE! Is this paragraph really the bashing of these callers that it seems?

11 years, 1 month

Re: [Callers] Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance

by John Sweeney

Responding to a couple of points: If you don't like saying "beats", say "steps": "You usually have 8 steps for a circle, for this one you only have six steps". To get them round a circle faster without going into too much detail use phrases such as: "You need to get around this circle a little faster, you'll find it easier if you put your elbows down and your hands up" - demonstrate - this tends to make the circle smaller and increases connection so the better dancers have a chance of pulling the slower ones round. Happy dancing, John John Sweeney, Dancer, England john(a)modernjive.com 01233 625 362 http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent

11 years, 1 month

Re: [Callers] Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance

by Donna Hunt

Personally I prefer that the "regular dancers" do not verbally "teach" the new dancers. Contrary to what you've described I find that what I have learned to say succinctly and clearly during my years of calling will take a "regular dancer" 2 or 3x the amount of time to say and by that time the new dancer is late for the next move AND has learned not to listen to the caller. Please consider that some "regular dancers" who are dancing with beginners are trying to impress them with their knowledge rather than assisting the new dancers to learn quickly and correctly. I agree that taking "a second to mention" (as John suggested) tricky timing or the execution of a move "Ladies Chain: Ladies give right hands pull by give your left to the gent for a courtesy turn" takes no more time to explain than it takes the dancers to walk it through. Of course this much detail is for the first and possibly second Ladies Chain of the evening and NOT every time. I prefer that the "regulars" teach by example and "show" by action as I explain with words. I do not endorse "A caller who jabbers constantly" (as you wrote)... but to "drip-feed good ideas" (as John suggested) throughout the evening, taking a few seconds here and a few seconds, I believe, will help create a more cohesive dance experience for all on the floor. Donna Hunt -----Original Message----- From: Greg McKenzie <grekenzie(a)gmail.com> To: Caller's discussion list <callers(a)sharedweight.net> Sent: Tue, Feb 11, 2014 4:56 pm Subject: Re: [Callers] Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance John wrote: Read also mentioned "avoidance of teaching". > > But we ARE teachers. You may CALL it a walk-through, but what you are > actually doing is TEACHING the dance. And if the dance will work better if > you point out some key items then go head and point them out, i.e. teach! > I know that many of us love teaching. In fact it seems to be one reason many take up calling in the first place. But teaching from the mike at an open, public contra dance can be very counterproductive...particularly with regard to your efforts to integrate first-timers into the fun. You love to teach. But so do most of the regular dancers. A big part of the fun of partnering with newcomers is being able to guide them through the dance and share your passion for this wonderful dance form. While the caller is teaching verbally it is almost impossible for the regulars to enjoy their own "teaching" role. If you really want the regulars to partner with first-timers one of the key "tricks" is to make sure the regulars will have time to take the lead and "teach" their partner during the walk through. This is what makes partnering with regulars fun, And that is why I try to keep my prompts to an absolute minimum during the walk-through. A caller who jabbers constantly during the walk-through can transform the joy of a collaborative learning experience into a dreadful chore as the regulars are required to stand by silently while the caller *explains *a move that they could *show *their partner in less time than it would take the caller to say the *name *of the move. And later the caller will complain that it is so hard to get the regulars to partner with first-timers. Instead of "explaining" that a circle takes only "6 counts" I would gently suggest that callers consider simply giving the prompt "pass through" so that it ends precisely two counts before the end of the phrase. That way you can "say it all" with only two words and the dancers get to keep moving in time with the live music. Make it fun! Just a thought. Greg McKenzie West Coast, USA _______________________________________________ Callers mailing list Callers(a)sharedweight.net http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers

11 years, 1 month

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