[Callers] Re: [External] Re: Choreographic No-Nos

Surprised no one's mentioned interlocking long wavy lines, yet — I think it's relatively well-known that Lisa Greenleaf hates this move! Can't say I'm a huge fan, either, but it has its moments. For my two-cents, butterfly whirls are on thin ice! I'll program dances that include this figure with a partner on rare occasion, and symmetrical dances with both a partner and neighbor whirl could be novel enough to be okay (???) on a cold day, but I think I would essentially never call a dance with only a neighbor butterfly whirl. There are too many excellent dances to ever bother with the mediocre ones, honestly. On Tue, Aug 6, 2024, 3:14 AM Neal Schlein via Contra Callers < contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; wrote: > I agree with Jonathan about your existing list, and think that almost > any sequence CAN be used if done with knowledgeable intent. > > However, for the general list of things to avoid I would nominate what > I like to call “fudge down the line,” which is any adjustment that a) > happens solely because the sequence doesn’t fully progress the couples and > b) does not flow naturally from the existing movement. (This most often > happens in Beckett dances or those substantially in Beckett formation; > examples include a 2 count sideways slide along the line or a slightly > angled right and left thru.) > > Notably, the 4 beat slide in “With Thanks to the Dean” and similar > dances would not count because they are full and discrete actions > that are specifically accounted for in the flow and timing. > > Neal Schlein > Librarian, MSLIS > > > On Mon, Aug 5, 2024 at 10:28 PM Michael Fuerst via Contra Callers < > contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; wrote: > >> Depending on the flow of the dance, balance and box the gnat can >> often replace dsd and shoulder rounds 1 1/2 >> >> On Mon, Aug 5, 2024 at 11:17 PM Maia McCormick via Contra Callers < >> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; wrote: >> >>> I don't have Bob's list handy, but I cribbed heavily from it to make this >>> (much less extensive) list of figures + timings >>> <https://contra.maiamccormick.com/assets/pdfs/esc-choreo-figures.pdf>, >>> in case it's useful to anyone! >>> >>> (This reminds me of some more things I don't like, ha. Circle L and >>> pass through to swing -- IME the swing always gets truncated. Dosido 1.5x >>> and right shoulder round 1.5x don't quiiite fit in 8 counts of music and >>> are often frustrating. And I don't call couples' dosidos anymore, they're a >>> pain to execute correctly unless everyone in the hall is EXTREMELY on top >>> of it.) >>> -- >>> Maia McCormick (she/her) >>> 917.279.8194 >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Aug 6, 2024 at 12:02 AM Joe Harrington < >>> contradancerjoe(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: >>> >>>> Is Bob Isaacs in the house? He has a giant spreadsheet with every >>>> possible move transition and a count of the number of times it occurs in a >>>> set of dances that now numbers in the hundreds or maybe a lot more. It’s >>>> interesting which unlikely combinations do occur and which rarely do. I >>>> hope this someday sees the light of day. >>>> >>>> —jh— >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Aug 5, 2024 at 11:29 PM Maia McCormick via Contra Callers < >>>> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; wrote: >>>> >>>>> Jeff, impressively bad, well done! >>>>> >>>>> My biggest pet peeve is a RH chain (or promenade, or other move >>>>> with a CCW courtesy turn) into a circle L—though this is a very >>>>> of-the-moment style preference, as I know plenty of the classic dances have >>>>> this combo. (Likewise for dances where just the 1s do a figure while the 2s >>>>> stand around, doubly so if the dance doesn’t alternate active couples.) >>>>> >>>>> Long lines followed by a chain is quite idiomatic—and probably in >>>>> part because of the strength that idiom, a chain (or other courtesy turn >>>>> figure) followed by long lines drives me up a wall. >>>>> >>>>> I don’t love long lines into a circle—I’ll tolerate it if the rest >>>>> of the dance is really exceptional, ehhhh. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Maia McCormick (she/her) >>>>> 917.279.8194 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Aug 5, 2024 at 10:31 PM Jeff Kaufman via Contra Callers < >>>>> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Balance neighbor (4), swing partner (12) >>>>>> >>>>>> Ones dosido below while twos seesaw above (8). >>>>>> >>>>>> Long lines forward (4), swing on the side (8), long lines back >>>>>> (4). >>>>>> >>>>>> Circle left 1x (6) pass through (2) >>>>>> >>>>>> Jeff >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Aug 5, 2024 at 9:51 PM Tepfer, Seth via Contra Callers < >>>>>> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - A right chain INTO a swing >>>>>>> - A swing into a circle right >>>>>>> - Standard right shoulder hey into a swing >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Plenty other bad flow examples >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Seth Tepfer, MBA, CSM, PMP (he, him, his) >>>>>>> Senior IT Manager, Emory Primate Center >>>>>>> <Outlook-b31euhoh.png> >>>>>>> <https://outlook.office.com/bookwithme/user/fcd3f5d71da848759228584d1a49babd@emory.edu?anonymous&ep=signature> Book >>>>>>> time to meet with me >>>>>>> <https://outlook.office365.com/owa/calendar/SethTepfer@mscloud.emory.net/bookings/> >>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>> *From:* Jonathan Sivier via Contra Callers < >>>>>>> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; >>>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, August 5, 2024 9:48 PM >>>>>>> *To:* New Contra Callers List < >>>>>>> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; >>>>>>> *Subject:* [External] [Callers] Re: Choreographic No-Nos >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I don't agree with your list. Yes, swings on the first half of >>>>>>> a phrase are challenging and I might try to avoid them. There are dances >>>>>>> with this that generally work fine, especially if the caller is aware of >>>>>>> the potential issue and teaches and calls accordingly. The do-si-do across >>>>>>> can be a bit awkward in a crowded line, but only if everyone is doing the >>>>>>> do-si-do. If only the 1's or 2's are doing it then there is no problem. >>>>>>> Shadow swings seem to be a personal preference or dislike and not really a >>>>>>> choreographic issue. I actually think that a right chain after a swing can >>>>>>> work very well. If you end the swing with the pointy hands pointing across >>>>>>> then the right hands of the right hand dancers are right there ready to >>>>>>> pull by. I suppose you might say there is a momentum change, but that can >>>>>>> be very welcome in a dance where everything seems to be traveling the same >>>>>>> way. Not every dance has to have continuous motion in the same direction >>>>>>> all the time. I danced a dance with that set of figures just last Friday >>>>>>> and I was thinking to myself how well it seemed to work. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So I see #1 and #3 as more of a challenge than a problem. #4 is >>>>>>> a personal preference and #2 seems like a perfectly fine transition between >>>>>>> figures. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Jonathan >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 8/5/2024 7:37 PM, Michael Fuerst via Contra Callers wrote: >>>>>>> > I am accumulating a list of figures, or figure sequence that >>>>>>> significant dance writers (not necessarily a majority) consider >>>>>>> Choreographic No-Nos >>>>>>> > My list so far: >>>>>>> > 1. do-si-do across >>>>>>> > 2. right chain after a swing >>>>>>> > 3 short swings on an odd phrase >>>>>>> > 4. Shadow swings >>>>>>> > Does anyone have further suggestions? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Contra Callers mailing list -- >>>>>>> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >>>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to >>>>>>> contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Contra Callers mailing list -- >>>>>>> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >>>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to >>>>>>> contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Contra Callers mailing list -- >>>>>> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to >>>>>> contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Contra Callers mailing list -- >>>>> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to >>>>> contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >>> To unsubscribe send an email to >>> contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >> To unsubscribe send an email to >> contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net >> > _______________________________________________ > Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net > To unsubscribe send an email to > contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net > _______________________________________________ Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net