15 Oct
2017
15 Oct
'17
5:21 a.m.
Hi Mary! A lot has already been written on the subject elsewhere, but the
summary of why Larks and Ravens has become a great set of terms is that
they correlate to the (L)eft and (R)ight positions at the end of a swing.
The syllable count is the same when compared to Gent and Lady (or Man and
Woman, for that matter), and the terms don't conflict with any dance
instructions (like how Lead and Follow would, especially if used to call
for English or Square Dancing).
Another great set of terms are Jets and Rubies, but I've found those labels
to be more arbitrary...the main advantage is that the words are
phonetically similar to Gents and Ladies...and I'm not sure whether or not
that's a good thing!
I hope this helps clarify things for you, and I thank you in advance for
keeping an open mind about trying these new, genderfree terms soon! In the
communities I've danced in, I can't tell you how much of a positive
difference these terms have made for individual dancers and for the
communities on the balance. But again, more on that can be read elsewhere,
and I hope to write in with more about my personal experiences as a caller
and dance organizer soon!
Angela
On Oct 14, 2017 2:09 PM, "Mary Collins" <nativedae(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Ahem Tom...that would be "gender"
lol....Seriously, being of the more
mature (and I use that term loosely) set, I find all these new names for
ROLES to be troublesome and tiresome. Who exactly is a Lark & who exactly
are Ravens? Because quite frankly I have mental pictures of both....from
literature and music and they could be as offending as gents & ladies or
women & men....not to try to start anything here. I am just trying to
grasp something that seems to be just a wee bit beyond my reach. Several
of my fellow traveling dance friends (of similar age) do not understand
these terms either. Since I plan to be traveling and hopefully calling in
"your community" sometime, I'd really like to get a handle on this.
Mary "24" Collins
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On Sat, Oct 14, 2017 at 12:15 PM, Tom Hinds <twhinds(a)earthlink.net> wrote:
Thanks Angela. If only we could easily change
our gender so we could
understand what it's like to be the other sex.
On Oct 14, 2017, at 11:32 AM, Angela DeCarlis wrote:
Tom, I had this conversation with Sue Rosen this summer. Women who belong
to the original Feminist generation (like Sue and, presumably, like Mary
and Martha above) were involved in a cultural movement to abolish the word
"Lady", along with its restrictive connotations, in favor of "Woman".
The
latter label, I understand, was one which lent more power and ownership to
its wearers, and so was preferable. You could be however you were,
"ladylike" or not, and still be a Woman. (others, please chime in if I've
gotten anything wrong or missed anything!)
My generation has an opposite problem: due to the modern-day Gender
Revolution, wherein we seek to abolish the gender dichotomy, terms like
"Woman" and "Man" feel too restrictive and denotative.
"Lady" and "Gent"
feel almost more comfortable to some, since they are words that are
slightly more flexible, in some ways.
One of the biggest problems for both groups, I think, is when the terms
are used interchangeably.
This is one of my favorite things to think about when it comes to role
terms in dance today! I *love* our community's intergenerationality, and
learning about each other through conversations like this!
Eventually I hope to get around to writing in about the changes I've seen
at BIDA since switching to Larks and Ravens at the beginning of the summer.
It's been truly remarkable!
'Til then,
Angela
On Oct 14, 2017 9:26 AM, "Mary Collins via Callers" <
callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Martha, I dont recall this dance of which you
speak. Could you share the
true title and calls? Thanks! I also cringe over ladies (I don't fit that
tradition) yet it is a good "place holder, ROLE identifer" for my
communities.
On Oct 14, 2017 9:06 AM, "Tom Hinds via Callers" <
callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
I must have fallen asleep during a discussion of
"ladies". What's the
issue?
Sent from my iPad
> On Oct 11, 2017, at 12:13 PM, Martha Wild via Callers <
callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> I’ve got a gypsy star dance (I actually call it “Star Wrong” and not
just because of the g-word, but because if you say “gypsy star” everybody
starts to gypsy and NOT star, so I gave up on that confusing terminology).
Haven’t seen another dance like it. The move from mad robin into the star
wrong actually flows quite well. I use men and women for roles, not
genders. When I first started calling, we considered “lady” to be a four
letter word - women’s movement and bra burning and all that. I still find
it hard to use the word “lady” and not bristle. Times have changed, now
people bristle at men and women. Go figure. I didn’t correct the “g-word”
use on this version
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