2 Jul
2013
2 Jul
'13
3:46 p.m.
Thank you for taking up this position, Jeff. Because there is also a discussion of swing
going on on FB, I decided to verify my thoughts with my ten year old daughter, an
excellent dancer who dances both roles with equal ease. She barely comes up to my chin.
First I danced the gent position and I was unsurprised to find that she took up her
position, with no prompting from me, and her hand was squarely on my shoulder blade. She
swung with perfect counterbalance and was easy to turn as she sensed my body shifting and
removed her arm in preparation for a flourish. Then she danced the gent. Though I am
considerably taller than she she had no trouble in the swing or in twirling me out. She
reports that she often twirls her friends,many of whom are taller than me. She can even
twirl people dancing as twins. Not everyone is as limber as she, but that is not a
function of height.
Andrea
Sent from my iPad
On Jul 2, 2013, at 8:08 PM, Jeff Kaufman <jeff(a)alum.swarthmore.edu> wrote:
On Tue, Jul 2, 2013 at 11:27 AM, John Sweeney
<info(a)contrafusion.co.uk> wrote:
that only applies if the lady places her hand on
the man's back.
I never teach that. I always tell ladies to rest their arm gently on the
man's upper arm.
When the lady rests their hand on the gent's upper arm they're not
helping hold the two people together. When I'm dancing as the gent I
much prefer to dance with ladies where the swing can be symmetrical in
terms of weight distribution. Otherwise my right arm has to do twice
as much work, and my wrist gets sore.
For an example of the kind of hold I'm taking about, here's an example
from your website:
http://www.contrafusion.co.uk/Videos.html#GlensideContra
I'm the young bearded guy at the front facing the camera (2007 gets
longer ago every year). You can see that me, my partner, and my
neighbors, all put our left hands on the other person's back when
swinging as the lady. Several videos down on the same page you c
see a video of the Concord Scout House, and every lady there is
helping support their weight by putting their left hand on the gent's
back.
1) The man, who, on average, has longer arms, reaches under the lady's arm
to very easily reach her shoulder-blade. The lady, with her (on average)
shorter arms and probably starting from lower down, has to reach OVER the
man's arm to get to his shoulder-blade. Yes, some ladies can reach. But in
my experience many ladies cannot easily reach and still be comfortable.
If the gent bends their right arm a little bit more than the lady
bends their left, then this should just work. But if some people's
arms aren't long enough for this to work, that's fine. Just as long
as most ladies I meet while dancing the gent will still be trying to
do their share.
2) If they can just reach, many ladies then, instead of just placing their
hand on the man's shoulder-blade (so that when centrifugal force increases
they can resist it) they actually press into the man's shoulder-blade. I am
not sure if this is just bad technique, but I suspect it may be partially to
do with the fact that they can only just reach so they press so that their
hand doesn't slip. It can be quite uncomfortable for the man.
I've only seen this occasionally, with new dancers who haven't figured
out how to give weight evenly. Is this actually that common?
3) Even if the lady's arm is the same length as the man, and she is the same
height, she still has to reach over his arm, so it automatically pulls you
closer together than you need to be, and even closer if her arm is shorter.
While there are fun swing variations where we get really, really close, in a
standard buzz-step swing I don't believe that being forced closer together
is desirable.
I'm not very comfortable dancing close to arbitrary people, and you
won't see me sleaze dancing at contras. But we're talking about being
maybe 10% closer than you would need to be otherwise. This is a small
change.
4) It is not necessary if the man's hand is well placed. As you say each
supports their own weight, so all the connection is doing is resisting
centrifugal force and, in nearly 50 years of swinging, I have never found
that a problem.
I think you may have stronger wrists than I do. I regularly find my
right wrist hurts after swinging with ladies who don't help support
their weight. I also hear women complain about this a lot when they
try dancing the gent for the first time.
5) It is quite common for the lady to twirl under the man's arm at the end
of a swing. If the lady twirls counter-clockwise that is not a problem. But
if she twirls clockwise then she will break her arm. Probably not a problem
is the lady is completely in control of the twirl - she just prepares for it
by moving her arm, but if the man takes some part in initiating the twirl
(which I believe is very common) then if he tries to twirl her and she
reacts slowly then either the twirl fails or she gets hurt. Of course if
the lady's left hand is just resting on the man's upper arm she can twirl
either way without a problem. The hand just slides off easily.
I'm a little confused here. The difference in hand positions is very
small and I can't picture how it would lead to people getting hurt.
But I probably need to see a demo with people on the floor before I'll
understand your point.
6) In complex flourishes, such as a Texas
Tommy/Apache Whip exit from a
swing, then you really do need some lead and follow, and it is nearly always
the man leading the lady. A move like that is impossible if the lady's left
hand is on the man's back. Believe me I have tried it!
When I dance as the gent I do quite a bit of leading, and I haven't
had any problem, even with complex flourishes. Similarly, when I
dance as the lady I put my hand on the gents back and again I haven't
noticed any problems.
I hope that helps you understand why I always teach the lady to leave her
relaxed left arm resting on the man's upper arm. :-)
I think we could probably understand each other much better in person
with demonstration. If you're in Boston some time let me know and
check out one of our BIDA dances; I'll try to make it to one of yours
if I'm ever in Kent.
Kent
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