[Callers] Re: [External] Re: Choreographic No-Nos

I agree with Jonathan about your existing list, and think that almost any sequence CAN be used if done with knowledgeable intent. However, for the general list of things to avoid I would nominate what I like to call “fudge down the line,” which is any adjustment that a) happens solely because the sequence doesn’t fully progress the couples and b) does not flow naturally from the existing movement. (This most often happens in Beckett dances or those substantially in Beckett formation; examples include a 2 count sideways slide along the line or a slightly angled right and left thru.) Notably, the 4 beat slide in “With Thanks to the Dean” and similar dances would not count because they are full and discrete actions that are specifically accounted for in the flow and timing. Neal Schlein Librarian, MSLIS On Mon, Aug 5, 2024 at 10:28 PM Michael Fuerst via Contra Callers < contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; wrote: > Depending on the flow of the dance, balance and box the gnat can > often replace dsd and shoulder rounds 1 1/2 > > On Mon, Aug 5, 2024 at 11:17 PM Maia McCormick via Contra Callers < > contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; wrote: > >> I don't have Bob's list handy, but I cribbed heavily from it to make this >> (much less extensive) list of figures + timings >> <https://contra.maiamccormick.com/assets/pdfs/esc-choreo-figures.pdf>, >> in case it's useful to anyone! >> >> (This reminds me of some more things I don't like, ha. Circle L and >> pass through to swing -- IME the swing always gets truncated. Dosido 1.5x >> and right shoulder round 1.5x don't quiiite fit in 8 counts of music and >> are often frustrating. And I don't call couples' dosidos anymore, they're a >> pain to execute correctly unless everyone in the hall is EXTREMELY on top >> of it.) >> -- >> Maia McCormick (she/her) >> 917.279.8194 >> >> >> On Tue, Aug 6, 2024 at 12:02 AM Joe Harrington < >> contradancerjoe(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: >> >>> Is Bob Isaacs in the house? He has a giant spreadsheet with every >>> possible move transition and a count of the number of times it occurs in a >>> set of dances that now numbers in the hundreds or maybe a lot more. It’s >>> interesting which unlikely combinations do occur and which rarely do. I >>> hope this someday sees the light of day. >>> >>> —jh— >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Aug 5, 2024 at 11:29 PM Maia McCormick via Contra Callers < >>> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; wrote: >>> >>>> Jeff, impressively bad, well done! >>>> >>>> My biggest pet peeve is a RH chain (or promenade, or other move >>>> with a CCW courtesy turn) into a circle L—though this is a very >>>> of-the-moment style preference, as I know plenty of the classic dances have >>>> this combo. (Likewise for dances where just the 1s do a figure while the 2s >>>> stand around, doubly so if the dance doesn’t alternate active couples.) >>>> >>>> Long lines followed by a chain is quite idiomatic—and probably in >>>> part because of the strength that idiom, a chain (or other courtesy turn >>>> figure) followed by long lines drives me up a wall. >>>> >>>> I don’t love long lines into a circle—I’ll tolerate it if the rest >>>> of the dance is really exceptional, ehhhh. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Maia McCormick (she/her) >>>> 917.279.8194 >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Aug 5, 2024 at 10:31 PM Jeff Kaufman via Contra Callers < >>>> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; wrote: >>>> >>>>> Balance neighbor (4), swing partner (12) >>>>> >>>>> Ones dosido below while twos seesaw above (8). >>>>> >>>>> Long lines forward (4), swing on the side (8), long lines back (4). >>>>> >>>>> Circle left 1x (6) pass through (2) >>>>> >>>>> Jeff >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Aug 5, 2024 at 9:51 PM Tepfer, Seth via Contra Callers < >>>>> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> - A right chain INTO a swing >>>>>> - A swing into a circle right >>>>>> - Standard right shoulder hey into a swing >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Plenty other bad flow examples >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Seth Tepfer, MBA, CSM, PMP (he, him, his) >>>>>> Senior IT Manager, Emory Primate Center >>>>>> <Outlook-b31euhoh.png> >>>>>> <https://outlook.office.com/bookwithme/user/fcd3f5d71da848759228584d1a49babd@emory.edu?anonymous&ep=signature> Book >>>>>> time to meet with me >>>>>> <https://outlook.office365.com/owa/calendar/SethTepfer@mscloud.emory.net/bookings/> >>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>> *From:* Jonathan Sivier via Contra Callers < >>>>>> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; >>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, August 5, 2024 9:48 PM >>>>>> *To:* New Contra Callers List < >>>>>> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; >>>>>> *Subject:* [External] [Callers] Re: Choreographic No-Nos >>>>>> >>>>>> I don't agree with your list. Yes, swings on the first half of a >>>>>> phrase are challenging and I might try to avoid them. There are dances >>>>>> with this that generally work fine, especially if the caller is aware of >>>>>> the potential issue and teaches and calls accordingly. The do-si-do across >>>>>> can be a bit awkward in a crowded line, but only if everyone is doing the >>>>>> do-si-do. If only the 1's or 2's are doing it then there is no problem. >>>>>> Shadow swings seem to be a personal preference or dislike and not really a >>>>>> choreographic issue. I actually think that a right chain after a swing can >>>>>> work very well. If you end the swing with the pointy hands pointing across >>>>>> then the right hands of the right hand dancers are right there ready to >>>>>> pull by. I suppose you might say there is a momentum change, but that can >>>>>> be very welcome in a dance where everything seems to be traveling the same >>>>>> way. Not every dance has to have continuous motion in the same direction >>>>>> all the time. I danced a dance with that set of figures just last Friday >>>>>> and I was thinking to myself how well it seemed to work. >>>>>> >>>>>> So I see #1 and #3 as more of a challenge than a problem. #4 is >>>>>> a personal preference and #2 seems like a perfectly fine transition between >>>>>> figures. >>>>>> >>>>>> Jonathan >>>>>> >>>>>> On 8/5/2024 7:37 PM, Michael Fuerst via Contra Callers wrote: >>>>>> > I am accumulating a list of figures, or figure sequence that >>>>>> significant dance writers (not necessarily a majority) consider >>>>>> Choreographic No-Nos >>>>>> > My list so far: >>>>>> > 1. do-si-do across >>>>>> > 2. right chain after a swing >>>>>> > 3 short swings on an odd phrase >>>>>> > 4. Shadow swings >>>>>> > Does anyone have further suggestions? >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Contra Callers mailing list -- >>>>>> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to >>>>>> contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Contra Callers mailing list -- >>>>>> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to >>>>>> contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Contra Callers mailing list -- >>>>> contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to >>>>> contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >>>> To unsubscribe send an email to >>>> contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >> To unsubscribe send an email to >> contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net >> > _______________________________________________ > Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net > To unsubscribe send an email to > contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net > _______________________________________________ Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net