22 May
2024
22 May
'24
2:34 p.m.
I have heard that, especially in larger halls - the time it takes for the music to get to
the dancers and then the clapping back to the band makes the clapping out of time with
what the band is trying to do and can be annoying.
I am not sure I ever heard a musician say that
Mac
On Wednesday, May 22, 2024 at 12:58:48 PM CDT, Russell Frank via Contra Callers
<contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
I’m no expert, but I was dancing back in the era when clapping was frowned upon, and still
often refrain from clapping. I can think of 2 reasons.
First, this was simply a case of the dancers doing a move differently than the caller had
taught it - and not just a few dancers occasionally, but a lot of dancers every time. It
must have been a bit of a shock.
Second, percussion from the hall is generally frowned upon, because it covers, and could
confuse the band. This may have been a problem back in the day, although bands expect it
and have no problem these days.
Russell, Monterey, CA
On May 22, 2024, at 9:45 AM, Julian Blechner via
Contra Callers <contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
John Sweeney hit on a big reason I'm baffled, in pointing out that the balances in
Petronella (the dance) are in the second half of a phrase. So what's funny is that in
the originally Petronella, it's
Spin spin spin pause
Stomp Stomp Stomp Stomp (or steps, but, still)
And in the modern move it's
Stomp Stomp Stomp stomp
Spin spin spin pause
So the originally Petronella had everyone making percussive noise on that last measure.
And the modern move has people filling in that pause with percussive sounds.
I've heard from people say "you need the beat or two to take hands" but
like, somehow that's not true with every other move where a move ends and you need to
join hands in a ring immediately - after a swing, bending a line of four, turning to a new
neighbor on a progression and readying for a balance, etc.
My summation is it's just a preference.
And I notice when bands play chiller tunes for Petronella spins, fewer people clap,
so...
...
Anyway, I also very much would love to hear any other explanations of "clapping in
Petronellas is wrong".
In dance,
Julian Blechner.
On Wed, May 22, 2024, 12:16 PM Richard Fischer via Contra Callers
<contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
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Hi Maia,
I have no claim to expertise, but I'm with you. In dances where the Petronella claps
don't interfere with anything, why not? Dancers enjoy it, and it can often be one of
the first things new dancers notice about unified timing. I'm not sure how it
originated, but since the move previously was often spin first then a satisfying balance,
maybe the claps were a way to still have that nice rhythmic end to the phrase. In any
event, why should a caller tell a hall full of dancers they're wrong?
With best wishes,
Richard Fischer
Arlington, MA
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To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net On May 22, 2024, at 11:49 AM, Maia McCormick via
Contra Callers <contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
tldr: those of you who are anti-Petronella claps (in general, not just in specific cases
where they interrupt flow from the spin into the next move), I want to understand why!
Clapping on Petronella turns has been the overwhelming norm ever since I started dancing,
but I know that it wasn't always this way, and that some folks vehemently dislike it.
Well recently I've noted the (baffling?? inexplicable??) rise of clapping after the
spin on Rory O'Moore's, which makes my blood boil (it's so satisfying to catch
hands in the new wave out of the spin, why would you ever NOT do that??), and it's
making me think more about Petronella claps.
Clapping on a Rory bugs me so much because it interrupts the momentum of
spin-and-catch-hands. I'll admit that I don't understand the objection to
Petronella claps, at least through that lens. Like certainly, in a specifically Cure for
the Claps-type* dance (with e.g. Petronella spin into allemande left, Petronella spin into
swing, etc.), clapping interrupts the momentum, and it's way more satisfying to spin
directly into the next move. But given a bog standard "Petronella, Petronella,
balance and swing" or similar, I don't feel like the claps interrupt the momentum
or disrupt transitions, and in fact are a nice fun way to fill space.
To be clear, the above isn't an argument in favor of Petronella claps, just me
explaining where I'm coming from. So now we come to my question:
1. those of you who are anti-Petronella claps, can you explain why? I want to understand!
Is it a satisfying momentum thing that I've just never experienced because I'm so
used to clapping? Dedication to historical accuracy? Something else entirely?
2. what dance(s) would you use to make your case to a contemporary contra hall, that
aren't explicitly written as Cure for the Claps dances? Petronella spin to a swing
feels great, and of course you shouldn't clap there (although some folks inexplicably
do, sigh)—but if you'd prefer that we didn't clap even in a dance like Tica Tica
Timing, then a CftC dance isn't the whole story. If you had the infinite good will of
a contemporary contra hall, and were able to say to the dancers "don't clap on
the Petronellas in this one and just pay attention to how nice it feels to X and how
satisfying it is to Y", what dance would you use, what things would you tell the
dancers to clue into, etc. to make your case? (And what would you ask the band for?)
Thanks as always for your expertise!
Cheers,
Maia
* Cure for the Claps contra: a dance that discourages clapping during the Petronella
turn, often by putting moves directly after the Petronella that flow nicely from a spin.
May be intentional or incidental. See e.g.: The Cure for the Claps (Bob Isaacs), Becket
in the Kitchen (Becky Hill)
--
Maia McCormick (she/her)
917.279.8194
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