18 Sep
2023
18 Sep
'23
12:06 p.m.
I was having a giggle over this message, especially imagining myself calling a
"Hey" as "weave around a bunch of people in an organized fashion" ....
I was laughing loud enough that my boyfriend wanted to know what I was chortling about.
So when I explained, he said, "Well couldn't you just describe contra dancing
itself, as " Weave around a bunch of people in an organized fashion"??"
:D :D :D
In case anyone ever needs to re-invent their resume!
Anyhow I've enjoyed this discussion very much.
In my specific case, which I think is fairly unique, I do weigh the introduction of new
terms carefully - because I am operating in a bubble - so if I think it's going to
help my often-confused, newbie-centric group cue the move in their head, I like to choose
a helpful name.
We always struggle with Ravens chains when they get introduced. I actually had great
success at our last couple of dances teaching the "courtesy turn" as a
"teapot turn" instead - because when I teach it, I cue the Ravens' hand
position with "You're a little teapot, short and stout, here is your handle and
here is your spout" . People loved it, and I was then able to use that to teach the
right-and-left through figure,. Our last caller told me the rt-left-thru massively
confused ppl and i've therefore been avoiding it. But when I taught it as "pull
by and teapot turn" - and they nailed it right away.
Anyhow, it's good fun to have this luxury here in our little contra-island in the
great white north :)
I definitely would do things differently if I were in a place where dancers regularly
flowed between different dance groups.
After listening to all the discussion here, I've decided for the Mad Robin figure,
i'm going to offer my dancers a few options and put it to a vote after they try it
out. I want to hear what they think.
I'm excited to report back to you after Sept 23rd!
:)
Kat K
Sep 18, 2023 1:14:53 AM jeff - syncopaths via Contra Callers
<contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>et>:
I don’t understand the need for renaming dance moves
like Mad Robin, Petronella, California Twirl… to something that describes the move. We all
learned these moves with non-descriptive names, and that was never really an issue. Are
callers now hearing from beginning dancers that the names are confusing, or are we
creating an issue when there really isn’t one?
In English, everything has names. Yes, we have descriptive names like “automobiles,"
but we refer to them as “cars." That doesn’t appear to be confusing to people. We
COULD call a ball a “spherical object,” but “ball” is much simpler.
Do we need to rename a chain to “pull by the right and courtesy turn,” or hey to “weave
around a bunch of people in an organized fashion?” There are many moves in contradancing
with non-descriptive names - or names that ARE descriptive but only to a select few, i.e.
“allemande” meaning "by the hand."
I think we need to trust that people have a goodly amount of intelligence, and as long as
we are teaching the moves properly, people will attach the name with the movement.
That being said, I tend to call “petronella” as “spin to the right,” so maybe I’m a bit
hypocritical!
--
Jeffrey Spero
Culver City, CA
On Sep 17, 2023, at 4:51 PM, Julian Blechner via
Contra Callers <contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
So, I had this worry, at first.
Back when Hampshire College was experimenting with various alternatives to Arm Bands /
Bare Arms, we had a spreadsheet with all sorts of qualities to get an overview on how
various terms compared, even if not a firm science. One of these was "does it sound
like existing dance terms", which is why things like "ports/starboards" was
ruled out. (At a house party that year, I danced to someone trying that, and it was
immediately confusing.)
When Larks/Robins was evaluated, the assumption was that Robins would be confused with
Mad Robin, so Ravens was attempted instead.
When some folks were looking for alter alternatives to Ravens, a few callers were trying
out Robins, again. I recall Lisa Greenleaf had done so at a Pinewoods week, probably
summer 2019? That Fall, at the Downtown Amherst Contra, we had been using Larks/Ravens and
were considering going over. So, as an experiment, I volunteered to try at a gig at the
dance I had calling that was coming up.
I called 3 Mad Robin dances that night.
The first was to teach it, maybe 4th dance of the evening, and I was sure it had no moves
with a "Robins" prompt.
The second was early in the second half, and I specifically chose one which ought to have
caused trouble - had like a Robins Chain to Mad Robin to Robins Allemande or something
like that.
The third was a no walk through with a Mad Robin.
We had zero issues with any of them.
We've been dancing with the terms Larks / Robins, since, with various callers calling
Mad Robins, maybe every 2nd or 3rd dance. We've had zero issues reported, and
we're a dance that specifically asks on the mic for dancers to give us feedback.
What I think matters is that dancer brains are cueing from The "Mad" in Mad
Robin.
So I can say with a high amount of confidence that Mad Robin and Larks/Robins works
perfectly well. Even if I still think Ravens are a cooler bird and a better term. ;)
In dance,
Julian Blechner
He/Him
Western Mass
On Sun, Sep 17, 2023, 12:51 PM Gabrielle Taylor via Contra Callers
<contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Regarding the term "Mad Robin", it can
potentially lead to some conflict with the gender-free "larks" and
"robins", so I'd personally lean towards using a new name, though I'm
not strong in that belief. I can definitely imagine new dancers hearing the term and
thinking that it refers to something that only the robins do.
There was discussion back in 2019 in the comments of Jeff Kaufman's blog [1] about
this, when the term "robin" was being suggested about this. Some there suggested
that the term "Mad Robin" could be replaced with "sashay" or
"full sashay" from MWSD. Apparently "full sashay" was used until the
1950s, meaning the same motion as a Mad Robin, but is not used today, although "half
sashay" still is. I can't vouch for the accuracy of that discussion though, since
I haven't danced MWSD, and I certainly wasn't dancing in the 1950s.
Gabrielle Taylor
She/Her
Massachusetts
[1]: https://www.jefftk.com/p/larks-robins
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