Re: [Callers] Fw: Shadow Swing Disclaimers?

Luke:  Your assessment is inaccurate.  This is not a matter where levity is acceptable.Creating a situation which could force someone into close, almost intimate  proximity with a person perceived as emotionally or physically threatening is inappropriate.A lesser problem is that one can get a shadow who one considers personable, but very unpleasant for swinging  (for example, due to either height difference,  or  a body position or weight distribution which unnecessarily strains one's own body). Michael Fuerst      802 N Broadway      Urbana IL 61801      217 239 5844 On Tuesday, September 8, 2015 1:53 PM, Luke Donforth <luke.donev(a)gmail.com> wrote: Mr. Fuerst, I again think your attempt to inject levity into a conversation have come across as crass and inappropriate.  Asking about shadow swings on a list for calling is pertinent; joking about men groping women dancers isn't. On Tue, Sep 8, 2015 at 2:43 PM, Michael Fuerst via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: Asking about how to appropriately do dances with shadow swings seems like asking how men can appropriately grope women during a dance.  Michael Fuerst      802 N Broadway      Urbana IL 61801      217 239 5844 On Tuesday, September 8, 2015 1:41 PM, Michael Fuerst <mjerryfuerst(a)yahoo.com> wrote: One can also be miffed at having to repeatedly  swing a shadow who one finds very pleasant as a person, but just awkward to swing with (too tall, too short, distributes his/her weight during a swing in a way that strains some part of you). Michael Fuerst      802 N Broadway      Urbana IL 61801      217 239 5844 On Tuesday, September 8, 2015 1:30 PM, Mac Mckeever via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: I agree with Michael - I can't see any reason I would want to call a dance with a shadow swing.  If the rest of the dance is that good - modify it to get rid of that swing. Chances are you are going to make at least one dancer very uncomfortable.  I avoid any figures that introduce that risk (not a big fan of men's chains either). There are lots of great dances out there - so I don't see a need to knowingly offend dancers with the few dances that contain risky figures.  Warning them ahead of time creates a very awkward situation on  the floor and someone is going to lose. Mac McKeever ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: Perry Shafran via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> To: "callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net" <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> Sent: Tuesday, September 8, 2015 1:20 PM Subject: Re: [Callers] Shadow Swing Disclaimers? I'm going to go with Andrea's well-written note on this.  I understand that the goal is to prevent people from dancing with people who really make them uncomfortable (i.e. creepers).  However, if you suggest "if you need to make changes, do so now", that will open up the potential for people to refuse a shadow for ANY reason (they smell, they're too fat, they're too old, they're not my BFF, they're the same gender, they're a beginner, whatever), and that could cause a whole world of hurt - especially in a community where we welcome all and celebrate differences in people.  There is no graceful way to do this, really, that I can think of.  For the most part, if there is someone that a person does not want to encounter in a dance, much less be a shadow, that person will find a different line to dance in.  At least that has been my experience.  Callers should not be encouraging people to find someone "better" than the potluck shadow that they got.  I would suggest not calling a dance with a shadow swing - that would ward off potential problems with shadows people don't want to swing and also prevent the hurt that would come with suggesting people make changes for whatever reason.  Perry From: Maia McCormick via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> To: "callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net" <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> Sent: Tuesday, September 8, 2015 11:06 AM Subject: [Callers] Shadow Swing Disclaimers? Hey all, First, a disclaimer: Some people on this listserv thing shadow swings are problematic. Some don't see any issue with them. This is NOT the conversation I want to have in this thread; I ask that you respond to the question I'm asking and do not debate my premise--at least not in this particular thread. This should help keep this thread on track and hopefully reduce excess noise and go-nowhere discussions on this listserv. Thanks! Anyway, the actual question I wanted to ask (whew!)-- There do exist some really fabulous shadow-swing dances that I would love to be able to call, as long as I could do so without putting anyone in an uncomfortable position. Do folks have ideas for ways to mitigate the potential harms of shadow swing dances? I was considering, at the beginning of the dance, having dancers identify their shadow and mentioning, "this will be a shadow swing dance, so if you need to make any changes, do so now" (or something like that)--haven't gotten the wording down-pat, but the idea is giving dancers advance warning of a shadow swing so they can move (thereby changing their shadow) if they need to. Any thoughts on this method? Suggestions of others? Cheers.Maia _______________________________________________ Callers mailing list Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net _______________________________________________ Callers mailing list Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net _______________________________________________ Callers mailing list Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net _______________________________________________ Callers mailing list Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net -- Luke Donforth Luke.Donforth(a)gmail.com