[Callers] Rotation shifts (was: Another dance-check zig-zag R dance)

As long as you're opening this line of thought, here's some more thoughts: Should we thus also say that every circle L / star R to circle R / star L transition has equally no place in contra? Because that's even more of a pronounced shift in rotational direction. (To be clear: with same neighbors, not as a transition.) I can imagine a counter-point would be noting that the swing is unique because it's a tighter rotation, and so it's not the same as stars/circles. But then how do we explain the frequency of dances with swing to ladies allemande right / ladies pass right to start a hey? It's absolutely ladies going from clockwise swing rotation to moving the opposite direction. Or how about some other frequently used transitions (from most frequent)?: Chain / R+L Thru to circle left. (Common, and a change in vector for both roles) Chain/star promenade to Face Next neighbor, DSD/"Gypsy"/Allemandes R with that new neighbor. (Less common, but I dance one of these every few weeks, on average.) Contra Corners dances where ladies role has to make both a hand and direction change (like... Chorus Jig) And maybe the answer someone might give is "these are all bad flow". Yet people seem to like many dances with them in it. I would be interested to find out why. In dance, Ron On Mar 14, 2017 11:41 PM, "Bob Isaacs" &lt;isaacsbob(a)hotmail.com&gt; wrote: Ron and All: I respectfully disagree. As long as we swing in a clockwise direction, the swing/circle R transition will flow poorly for both roles, and should have no place in any contra dance - Bob ------------------------------ *From:* Ron Blechner &lt;contraron(a)gmail.com&gt; *Sent:* Tuesday, March 14, 2017 11:19 PM *To:* Bob Isaacs *Cc:* Caller's discussion list *Subject:* Re: [Callers] Another dance-check zig-zag R dance I dance the ladies role enough where I feel I can confidently assert that swing -> circle R is as difficult for gents as swing -> circle L is for ladies. Either way, one person is unfolding from the swing opposite from the rotation of the subsequent circle. The bigger objection to flow is simply that it's a circle right that is from a standstill, and people don't dance many circle rights. (But we dance plenty circle lefts from a standstill.) In this case, I'm interested in the circle R as something to fill a second-half-of-evening slot where I often have need for dances that are fairly easy but not the same old circle lefts, swings, stars, chains, and allemandes. Best, Ron On Mar 14, 2017 11:05 PM, "Bob Isaacs via Callers" < callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; wrote: