I have found two identical dances. First I collected Coconut Cream Puff by
Nils Fredland, then I lost the card, and in the process of looking for it
online, discovered Coconut Cream Pie by Lynn Ackerson. It is the same dance:
4 Facing 4
A1 Lines of 4 go forward and back
middles star R once
A2 Partner allemande L 1 1/2
new middles star R once
B1 Partner balance & swing
B2 All 8 circle L 1/2 (4 places)
Balance ring, partner California twirl
So who really wrote it? Does anyone know why there are two names and two
choreographers attributed?
Hi, Liz,
I have that choreography as "Coconut Cream Pie" by Lynn Ackerson. I
collected it that way from Nils Fredland a few years ago.
Dugan Murphy
(he/him)
Portland, Maine
dugan at duganmurphy.comwww.DuganMurphy.comwww.PortlandIntownContraDance.comwww.NufSed.consulting
Date: Wed, 29 May 2019 20:36:43 -0400
> > From: Liz Burkhart <burkhart.liz(a)gmail.com>
> > To: callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> > Subject: [Callers] Coconut Cream Puff vs Pie + choreographer?
> >
> > I have found two identical dances. First I collected Coconut Cream Puff
> by
> > Nils Fredland, then I lost the card, and in the process of looking for it
> > online, discovered Coconut Cream Pie by Lynn Ackerson. It is the same
> > dance:
> >
> > 4 Facing 4
> > A1 Lines of 4 go forward and back
> > middles star R once
> > A2 Partner allemande L 1 1/2
> > new middles star R once
> > B1 Partner balance & swing
> > B2 All 8 circle L 1/2 (4 places)
> > Balance ring, partner California twirl
> >
> >
> > So who really wrote it? Does anyone know why there are two names and two
> > choreographers attributed?
>
Hi All,
In the first video link in Callers Box, one dancer is doing an interesting addition at A2b:
A2 Partner allemande L 1 1/2;
New middles star R once WHILE new ends Neighbor swing.
Cheers, Bill
Thank you! That sure does look like the same dance except B2 (or in the
original, C1!)
On Thu, May 30, 2019 at 6:36 PM <callers-request(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
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> 1. Coconut Cream Puff vs Pie + choreographer? (Liz Burkhart)
> 2. Re: Coconut Cream Puff vs Pie + choreographer? (Winston, Alan P.)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 29 May 2019 20:36:43 -0400
> From: Liz Burkhart <burkhart.liz(a)gmail.com>
> To: callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> Subject: [Callers] Coconut Cream Puff vs Pie + choreographer?
> Message-ID:
> <CAEQ=jxCz=
> 2syXFyoF6bE8BPrm2NcQnbVHomdKD3T+fmztR8qtg(a)mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I have found two identical dances. First I collected Coconut Cream Puff by
> Nils Fredland, then I lost the card, and in the process of looking for it
> online, discovered Coconut Cream Pie by Lynn Ackerson. It is the same
> dance:
>
> 4 Facing 4
> A1 Lines of 4 go forward and back
> middles star R once
> A2 Partner allemande L 1 1/2
> new middles star R once
> B1 Partner balance & swing
> B2 All 8 circle L 1/2 (4 places)
> Balance ring, partner California twirl
>
>
> So who really wrote it? Does anyone know why there are two names and two
> choreographers attributed?
>
Michael Dyck and my contra dance database project, the Caller's Box,
http://www.ibiblio.org/contradance/thecallersbox/
now includes links for about 1,900 dances to about 8,000 youtube videos.
They're currently unsorted, but hopefully after a few random clicks on
the currently 115 identified videos of Gene Hubert's "Butter",
there'll be an interesting one.
-Chris Page
San Diego, CA
In Otter Creek Books, in Middlebury VT, the other day I picked up a little book called “Prompting: How to do it”, by John M. Schell, “One of Boston’s leading prompters”. It “Contains the figures of all modern dances in common use, and how to call them”. It was published by Carl Fisher Inc (whom I think of as a music publisher) in 1890.
It contains instructions for numerous multi-part quadrilles (Plain, Lancers, Caledonian, Double Lancers, Saratoga Lancers, etc), and a couple of individual square dances. It also has about 120 contra dances, all in proper formation and almost all described as duple (many seem as though they could just as well be done improper). The instructions say they are for six-couple sets. Every contra is to be followed by “All forward (4); turn partners (4); all promenade around the hall.” (I interpret this as forward and back, swing partner, promenade.). The ones that have familiar names (Petronella, Money Musk, Hull’s Victory, Vinton’s Hornpipe etc) have a family resemblance to the dances that were codified by Ralph Page and others or appear e.g. in Zesty Contras, but often aren't quite the same.
This book was apparently one of Ralph Page’s main sources, and he felt free to update them some as he adapted them. in 1995, in connection with the 8th Ralph Page Legacy weekend at UNH, Tony Parkes wrote: "In preparing for this session, I reread Ralph's account of his early years as a caller ("One More Couple: Some Memories of 30 Years of Calling." Northern Junket, vol. 6 no. 12 and vol. 7 no. 1. February and May 1960) and discovered that Ralph learned to call with the aid of two different books: Prompting: How To Do It by John M. Schell (1890) and The Prompter’s Handbook, edited by J.A. French (1893)".
Here is some of the advice from the first few pages of the book. It looks like the task and role of the prompter/caller have not changed very much in 129 years:
—————————————————
Be a gentleman always; many questions will be asked and many minds to please. Answer each in a pleasant manner in every instance.
Should any complain of the tempo adapted by the orchestra…. inform such that you are playing according to the instructions of the floor manager, to whom you pleasantly refer them, adding that you will willingly change it is his wish…..In the case of a new party, or no instructions regarding tempo, watch the effect of the music, and change it if it seems too fast or too slow.
Grand Right and Left: It is well to make this call “Right hand to partner, grand right and left”.
Ladies’ Chain (8 bars): Danced by opposite couples at same time. Opposite ladies cross, give right hand in passing, join left hand with opposite gent, and turn half around. (Before the invention of the courtesy turn — perhaps as a flourish, as suggested recently on this list-serv).
The Voice: Do not strain the voice under any circumstances; the effect is injurious, and will soon render it useless. A few lessons in elocution, for the purpose of learning to throw out the voice, as in singing, will prove money well invested.
Commit to memory one set of figures of a quadrille, for example, and call aloud and with the music until perfectly learned and the calls exactly in time; then take up the next. The first attempts are nervous times at best, so that all calls should be perfectly committed in the order they are to come, leaving nothing to memorandums or books before entering the hall. Practice with the music until the calls are thoroughly mastered on time, and distinct. (This reminds me of a square calling workshop I attended at Augusta in 1990 taught by Larry Edelman, in which we were forbidden to have dance cards in our hands while calling — though we could use them in teaching.)
Figures requiring two calls, such as right and left etc, give the first call on the eighth bar (i.e. counts 15 and 16), the last on the fourth (i.e. counts 7 and 8). Invariably finish calling before the strain begins, otherwise the dancers will be behind, which detracts from their pleasure and the general effect.
``````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
Richard Hopkins
Middlebury, VT
850-544-7614
hopkinsrs(a)comcast.net
The forearm turn works well in MWSD because men wear long-sleeved shirts. Don’t know about you, but with short sleeved Ts typically worn by men in contra dancing, I’d hate to get a load of sweat on my arm , especially up and down the line with the all-too-frequent gents (or larks) allemand left once and a half.
Sent from my iPhone
> On May 21, 2019, at 4:07 PM, callers-request(a)lists.sharedweight.net wrote:
>
> Send Callers mailing list submissions to
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Hand Turns & Safety (Richard Fischer)
> 2. Re: Hand Turns & Safety (Rich Sbardella)
> 3. Re: Hand Turns & Safety (Don Veino)
> 4. Re: Hand Turns & Safety (Rich Sbardella)
> 5. Re: Hand Turns & Safety (Erik Hoffman)
> 6. Re: Hand Turns & Safety (Andrea Nettleton)
> 7. Re: Hand Turns & Safety (John Sweeney)
> 8. Re: Hand Turns & Safety (Folk Dance)
> 9. Re: Hand Turns & Safety (John Sweeney)
> 10. Re: Hand Turns & Safety (Andrea Nettleton)
> 11. Re: Hand Turns & Safety (John Sweeney)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 20 May 2019 18:58:41 -0400
> From: Richard Fischer <richardallenfischer(a)verizon.net>
> To: Andrea Nettleton <twirly-girl(a)bellsouth.net>
> Cc: Caller's discussion list <callers(a)sharedweight.net>
> Subject: Re: [Callers] Hand Turns & Safety
> Message-ID: <52479A7C-5587-493A-8B69-F85F8519BE71(a)verizon.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Andrea, could you describe the forearm allemande? I don't think I've seen it and can't quite picture it. Or maybe send a link to a video that shows it?
>
> Of possible interest to some, one of the scenes portrayed on the Shield of Achilles in the Iliad shows youths and maidens dancing, "holding their hands on one another's wrists."
>
> With best wishes,
>
> Richard Fischer
> Princeton, NJ
>
>> On May 18, 2019, at 12:14 PM, Andrea Nettleton via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>> I?m going to add a controversial note. I also loathe the many poor allemandes I get, unweighted, awkward handed, arm pulled in like a chicken wing, what have you. As a MWSD, I have come to love the forearm allemande for arm turns. Callerlab made the switch some years ago, and at first I was like, wut??? But it?s a position which save everyone?s hands and wrists, and even shoulders, is intrinsically very stable, and makes the chicken wing almost impossible. I started using it for dances with revolving doors, as a dancer, because those turns are so brief and necessarily tight and need a quick strong connection. I was so pleased I began using them elsewhere. People generally go along with it. I have been wishing Contra could just switch to this for all allemandes. I know it would be an uphill struggle to get everyone on board. But I had to put it out there.
>>
>> Currently I still teach an old fashioned allemande. I demonstrate and emphasize meaty parts of the thumb together, fingers curled around the base of the opposite?s thumb, flat wrist. And I always add that the thumb itself is an injurious device which lands at a tender spot if depressed, so leave it loose. Then I demonstrate how to produce enough connection to make a 2 person unit that turns on a post. I?m sure everyone on this list has similar teaches.
>> If teaching this allemande was ever going to work, it would have by now. I suspect it?s failure as a hold is why callerlab opted for the forearm hold instead.
>> My 2c,
>> Andrea N
>> Arlington VA
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On May 17, 2019, at 6:01 PM, Erik Hoffman via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net <mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net>> wrote:
>>>
>>> John Sweeny below hoped we callers would teach more about hand turns and the like.
>>>
>>> I?ve been thinking on this for quite a while. Years ago I had a discussion with Brad Foster. We both lamented the loss of the allemande with mildly interlocking thumbs to the modern overprotective thumb against the side of the palm allemande. At that time I think I was still in Santa Barbara, thus it must have been pre 1994. I wrote an article for our dance rag called, ?If Allemande Left, Where?d Allemande Go??
>>>
>>> I talked about what I do when someone grips my hand?and I think all of us should remove that word, ?grip? from our caller?s vocabulary?
>>>
>>> But the most important thing I discussed is:
>>> Our Wrist is Strongest When It?s Straight
>>> Our Fingers are Strongest When Curved
>>> Thus, however one does an allemande, it should be a hook, with curved fingers and a straight wrist.
>>>
>>> Lately I?ve seen teachers promote the straight fingers, bent wrist, and flat palm method. The almost always makes one person?s wrist uncomfortable. Not as bad as when someone draws the others hand into that almost-Aikido-put-them-on-the-ground position, but usually quite uncomfortable.
>>>
>>> Thus I hope most of us learn the curved fingers, straight wrist, no grip, and, no thumb clamping allemande, ECD hand turn, two hand turn type hand connections.
>>>
>>> ~Erik Hoffman,
>>> Oakland, CA
>>>
>>> From: Callers <callers-bounces(a)lists.sharedweight.net <mailto:callers-bounces@lists.sharedweight.net>> On Behalf Of John Sweeney via Callers
>>> Sent: Friday, May 17, 2019 2:09 PM
>>> To: 'Caller's discussion list' <callers(a)sharedweight.net <mailto:callers@sharedweight.net>>
>>> Subject: Re: [Callers] Name that Dance
>>>
>>> Hi Rich,
>>> I would just call it a ?Big Set Mixer?. It is a slight variation of the one in the Community Dances Manual. Callers just make up a 32 bar sequence that works for their dancers.
>>>
>>> While it is a good example of all ages having fun together, I really wish callers would teach the dancers just a tiny bit about how to do better hand/arm turns and swings :-)
>>>
>>> Happy dancing,
>>> John
>>>
>>> John Sweeney, Dancer, England john(a)modernjive.com <mailto:john@modernjive.com> 01233 625 362 & 07802 940 574
>>> http://contrafusion.co.uk/KentCeilidhs.html <http://contrafusion.co.uk/KentCeilidhs.html> for Live Music Ceilidhs
>>> http://www.contrafusion.co.uk <http://www.contrafusion.co.uk/> for Dancing in Kent
>>> http://www.modernjive.com <http://www.modernjive.com/> for Modern Jive DVDs
>>>
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>
Ditto all that.I tell dancers (and demonstrate) that only my ring and pinky fingers are wrapped around the base of the other's thumb and the rest of my hand is loose. I think that helps them understand that this isn't a "power" move (read "arm wrestle"), but more gentle but with a good connection, flat wrist, imagine a pole where our hands are and we're walking around the pole.
Let's keep working on this!
Donna Hunt
-----Original Message-----
From: Bree Kalb via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
To: Martha Wild <mawild(a)sbcglobal.net>
Cc: Caller's discussion list <callers(a)sharedweight.net>
Sent: Sat, May 18, 2019 8:37 am
Subject: Re: [Callers] Hand Turns & Safety
This is a long term project of mine: to teach and encourage what I call “the physical therapist approved” way to Allemande. I don’t seem to be making much progress so am delighted that others care about it, too.
On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 8:55 PM Martha Wild via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Hear, hear! My sentiments exactly! How on earth are you supposed to “give weight” (in the proper way, just a tiny bit so you are both part of a unit) and get around each other with a flat, palm to palm contact? The only way that works is that people bend their wrists so that they have some purchase on the other person. Which hurts my now no longer flat wrist! So wrong, painfully wrong. Please, please, please, stop teaching a flat hand allemande. It doesn’t work. Curved fingers, straight wrist, the thumb is just sort of loose and not doing much. Thank you for bringing that up, Erik!Martha
On May 17, 2019, at 3:01 PM, Erik Hoffman via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
John Sweeny below hoped we callers would teach more about hand turns and the like. I’ve been thinking on this for quite a while. Years ago I had a discussion with Brad Foster. We both lamented the loss of the allemande with mildly interlocking thumbs to the modern overprotective thumb against the side of the palm allemande. At that time I think I was still in Santa Barbara, thus it must have been pre 1994. I wrote an article for our dance rag called, “If Allemande Left, Where’d Allemande Go?” I talked about what I do when someone grips my hand—and I think all of us should remove that word, “grip” from our caller’s vocabulary… But the most important thing I discussed is:
- Our Wrist is Strongest When It’s Straight
- Our Fingers are Strongest When Curved
- Thus, however one does an allemande, it should be a hook, with curved fingers and a straight wrist.
Lately I’ve seen teachers promote the straight fingers, bent wrist, and flat palm method. The almost always makes one person’s wrist uncomfortable. Not as bad as when someone draws the others hand into that almost-Aikido-put-them-on-the-ground position, but usually quite uncomfortable. Thus I hope most of us learn the curved fingers, straight wrist, no grip, and, no thumb clamping allemande, ECD hand turn, two hand turn type hand connections. ~Erik Hoffman, Oakland, CA From: Callers <callers-bounces(a)lists.sharedweight.net> On Behalf Of John Sweeney via Callers
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2019 2:09 PM
To: 'Caller's discussion list' <callers(a)sharedweight.net>
Subject: Re: [Callers] Name that Dance Hi Rich, I would just call it a “Big Set Mixer”. It is a slight variation of the one in the Community Dances Manual. Callers just make up a 32 bar sequence that works for their dancers. While it is a good example of all ages having fun together, I really wish callers would teach the dancers just a tiny bit about how to do better hand/arm turns and swings :-) Happy dancing, John John Sweeney, Dancer, England john(a)modernjive.com 01233 625 362 & 07802 940 574 http://contrafusion.co.uk/KentCeilidhs.html for Live Music Ceilidhs http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent http://www.modernjive.com for Modern Jive DVDs _______________________________________________
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Can anyone put the title to this dance from the web?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=20AzpUhcl_E&fbclid=IwAR2cUdLxooGD3zONkK4KatXcca3B3spscqRK26CLlOFcVgzPuEPaYhCf8Tc
Do you know "Double Double This This"? It can be done as a mixer or keeper.
Concentric circles, partners facing each other
Partners tap 2 fists together at chin's height 2 times: "Double, double"Partners tap 2 hands together, palms together 2 times: "This, this"Partners tap 2 fists together 2 times: "Double, double"Partners tap 2 hands back to back 2 times: "That, that"Partners tap fists 1 time, and open palms 1 time: "Double, this"Partners tap fists 1 time, and backs of hands 1 time: "Double, that'Partners tap 2 fists together 2 times: "Double, double"Partners tap open palms together 1 time and backs of hands 1 time: "This, That!"Repeat the above with same partner (or shift to the next person in the circle if making it a mixer)B Right hand allemande your partner;Do si do partnerLeft hand allemande partnerDo si do partner
At this point you can throw in an elbow swing or a promenade. I've done it with ages 9-10, never tried it with younger.
-----Original Message-----
From: Charles Abell via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
To: Callers(a)Lists.Sharedweight.net <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>; John Sweeney <john(a)modernjive.com>
Sent: Wed, May 15, 2019 8:51 am
Subject: Re: [Callers] Looking for "fun" dances
#yiv2122591051 P {margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;}I'm sure there is already a thread on this somewhere, but I'm wondering what are your favorite dances for those in the 4-10 year old range. Specifically, dances that are not mixers since many younger dancers prefer to stay with a particular partner the whole time. I have a number of good ones already (Alabama Gal, Haste to the Wedding, La Bastringue, etc), but I'd like to expand my existing collection of dances geared towards "little ones".
Let 'em rip!
From: Callers <callers-bounces(a)lists.sharedweight.net> on behalf of John Sweeney via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 9:58 AM
To: callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
Subject: Re: [Callers] Looking for "fun" dances Since so many people enjoy the contrary circling in The Wheel, you might
enjoy this one as well:
Suicide Square
http://www.ceilidhcalling.co.uk/danceviewpage.php?view=1&id=9
It is extremely chaotic! You can reduce the chaos slightly by getting the
band to stop randomly during the circling, at which point everyone grabs a
partner; the band waits a few seconds while everyone finds a partner and
decides whether they are Heads or Sides, then gives two notes and starts the
next Heads Gallop.
I modify it to give a bit more recovery time:
Start in a big square around the room
A1: Head couples take partner in a ballroom hold and gallop eight steps
into the centre and back
A2: Sides gallop eight steps into the centre and back
B1: All the men form an outer circle facing in, while the ladies form an
inner circle facing out. All circle left then find a new partner
B2: Partner Swing - stop early enough to decide whether you are now
Heads or Sides - Heads get ready to gallop
There is also The Muffin Man Jig:
http://www.ceilidhcalling.co.uk/danceviewpage.php?view=1&id=11
Happy dancing,
John
John Sweeney, Dancer, England john(a)modernjive.com 01233 625 362 & 07802
940 574
http://www.modernjive.com for Modern Jive Events & DVDs
http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent
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