Contra Callers

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4417 discussions

by Bengtson, Lissa via Callers

Thank you for the clarification from the Voice of Roma. Having learned the dance move and the term, and used it in complete ignorant innocence, I feel sad that it's leaving. But I'm sentimental about the Confederate flag, too and sad that my high school's arch-rival will no longer be Robert E Lee High School. I've just been living my life in a pool of ignorance and not realizing I'm offending people right and left. Lissa Bengtson San Antonio Sent from my iPhone > On Nov 4, 2015, at 3:01 PM, via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > > Send Callers mailing list submissions to > callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > callers-request(a)lists.sharedweight.net > > You can reach the person managing the list at > callers-owner(a)lists.sharedweight.net > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Callers digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Fwd: Use of the word "gypsy" in various folk dances - > Response from Voice of Roma (Martha Wild via Callers) > 2. Re: Fwd: Use of the word "gypsy" in various folk dances - > Response from Voice of Roma (Winston, Alan P. via Callers) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2015 19:43:31 -0800 > From: Martha Wild via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> > To: Caller's discussion list <callers(a)sharedweight.net> > Subject: [Callers] Fwd: Use of the word "gypsy" in various folk dances > - Response from Voice of Roma > Message-ID: <E9D55526-AB98-4C9C-AA56-DD67DACF5AF4(a)sbcglobal.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > > All, I have received the following response from a representative from the Voice of Roma. This seems to be a pretty definitive response to whether the term is insulting or not to the Roma people. > Martha > > > Begin forwarded message: > >> From: Carol Silverman <csilverm(a)uoregon.edu> >> Subject: Re: Use of the word "gypsy" in various folk dances >> Date: November 3, 2015 7:28:00 PM PST >> To: Martha Wild <mawild(a)sbcglobal.net>, Voice of Roma <voiceofroma(a)gmail.com> >> Cc: Petra Gelbart <petragelbart(a)gmail.com> >> >> Dear Martha, >> Sani Rifati, President of Voice of Roma forwarded you message to me. Although I am not Romani, I am on the Board of VOR and we do care deeply about the terms used for the people we represent. >> A large number of Roma (but not all) are offended by the term Gypsy, especially with a small g. To ?gyp" someone means to steal and swindle; plus the word connotes a false history? it a short for Egyptian whereas Roma are from India. Roma have faced centuries of discrimination, and today are subject to deportations and racial profiling; this would be an opportunity to teach your community a little about their history. >> >> So whatever the history of the dance step, I know that names can be changed by sensitive callers like you. I would urge you to change the names and seize and educational moment! >> Sincerely, Carol Silverman >> PS Check the VOR webs page fro my information: http://www.voiceofroma.com/culture/gyp_vs_rom.html >> >> >> >> >> >>> From: Martha Wild <mawild(a)sbcglobal.net> >>> Date: Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 1:56 AM >>> Subject: Use of the word "gypsy" in various folk dances >>> To: voiceofroma(a)gmail.com >>> >>> >>> Hi, >>> I am a folk dancer - I do a lot of contra dancing and English Country dance and I call the dances as well. >>> >>> Recently a newcomer who came to a dance at another venue brought to our (a group of caller's that talk about such subjects on a list) attention that we have been using the word gypsy for one of the dance moves in both types of dance. This dancer (not a Roma) came to one of our dances and was upset that we used the term "gypsy" for this dance move, as they felt that the word was insulting to the Roma people. >>> >>> I would like to know if this is the case, as we have never intended to be derogatory to anyone, but lots of dances have this move, and dance names even contain the name, like "The Gypsy Star" and others. >>> >>> The move in question is a move where two people walk around each other and back to place, while facing each other. There is some confusion about origin of the term, but the best guess is that there was an English Country dance called "The Spanish Gypsy" that was written over a hundred years ago, and it was the first to include this move of people walking around each other while facing (prior to that people generally did a "back to back, or what is also called "do-si-do". The move was not called a "gypsy", but because this dance used it and other dances copied it, people called it a "gypsy" because it was the same move that was in that dance. >>> >>> I've been calling these dances for over 25 years and have used this term to indicate this move, never intending anything by it other than as an established name for a dance figure. I am hoping that some of the folks at Voice of Roma could give me an opinion as to whether you find it offensive or not for us to continue to use it. We've been discussing on the web whether we should try to find a different name, but if you feel that this use of the word gypsy is not an issue then we can stop arguing over words like "eddy" or "swirl" and continue to use it. If you do find it offensive, however, I will gladly alter my dance cards to something else so as not to continue to be offensive. >>> >>> Thanks for your input, >>> Martha Wild >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Sani Rifati >>> 707/823-7941 >>> http://www.voiceofroma.com >> >> Carol Silverman >> Professor >> Department of Anthropology and >> Folklore Program >> University of Oregon >> Eugene OR 97403-1218 >> Office 541-346-5114 >> Fax 541-346-0668 >> csilverm(a)uoregon.edu > >

10 years, 1 month

Fwd: Use of the word "gypsy" in various folk dances - Response from Voice of Roma

by Martha Wild via Callers

All, I have received the following response from a representative from the Voice of Roma. This seems to be a pretty definitive response to whether the term is insulting or not to the Roma people. Martha Begin forwarded message: > From: Carol Silverman <csilverm(a)uoregon.edu> > Subject: Re: Use of the word "gypsy" in various folk dances > Date: November 3, 2015 7:28:00 PM PST > To: Martha Wild <mawild(a)sbcglobal.net>, Voice of Roma <voiceofroma(a)gmail.com> > Cc: Petra Gelbart <petragelbart(a)gmail.com> > > Dear Martha, > Sani Rifati, President of Voice of Roma forwarded you message to me. Although I am not Romani, I am on the Board of VOR and we do care deeply about the terms used for the people we represent. > A large number of Roma (but not all) are offended by the term Gypsy, especially with a small g. To “gyp" someone means to steal and swindle; plus the word connotes a false history— it a short for Egyptian whereas Roma are from India. Roma have faced centuries of discrimination, and today are subject to deportations and racial profiling; this would be an opportunity to teach your community a little about their history. > > So whatever the history of the dance step, I know that names can be changed by sensitive callers like you. I would urge you to change the names and seize and educational moment! > Sincerely, Carol Silverman > PS Check the VOR webs page fro my information: http://www.voiceofroma.com/culture/gyp_vs_rom.html > > > >> >> > > >> From: Martha Wild <mawild(a)sbcglobal.net> >> Date: Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 1:56 AM >> Subject: Use of the word "gypsy" in various folk dances >> To: voiceofroma(a)gmail.com >> >> >> Hi, >> I am a folk dancer - I do a lot of contra dancing and English Country dance and I call the dances as well. >> >> Recently a newcomer who came to a dance at another venue brought to our (a group of caller's that talk about such subjects on a list) attention that we have been using the word gypsy for one of the dance moves in both types of dance. This dancer (not a Roma) came to one of our dances and was upset that we used the term "gypsy" for this dance move, as they felt that the word was insulting to the Roma people. >> >> I would like to know if this is the case, as we have never intended to be derogatory to anyone, but lots of dances have this move, and dance names even contain the name, like "The Gypsy Star" and others. >> >> The move in question is a move where two people walk around each other and back to place, while facing each other. There is some confusion about origin of the term, but the best guess is that there was an English Country dance called "The Spanish Gypsy" that was written over a hundred years ago, and it was the first to include this move of people walking around each other while facing (prior to that people generally did a "back to back, or what is also called "do-si-do". The move was not called a "gypsy", but because this dance used it and other dances copied it, people called it a "gypsy" because it was the same move that was in that dance. >> >> I've been calling these dances for over 25 years and have used this term to indicate this move, never intending anything by it other than as an established name for a dance figure. I am hoping that some of the folks at Voice of Roma could give me an opinion as to whether you find it offensive or not for us to continue to use it. We've been discussing on the web whether we should try to find a different name, but if you feel that this use of the word gypsy is not an issue then we can stop arguing over words like "eddy" or "swirl" and continue to use it. If you do find it offensive, however, I will gladly alter my dance cards to something else so as not to continue to be offensive. >> >> Thanks for your input, >> Martha Wild >> >> >> >> -- >> Sani Rifati >> 707/823-7941 >> http://www.voiceofroma.com > > Carol Silverman > Professor > Department of Anthropology and > Folklore Program > University of Oregon > Eugene OR 97403-1218 > Office 541-346-5114 > Fax 541-346-0668 > csilverm(a)uoregon.edu >

10 years, 1 month

Gypsy Synopsis

by Erik Hoffman via Callers

On the subject of gypsies and language, I've enjoyed reading the myriad comments, and find myself feeling ambiguous (which I define as feeling very strongly both ways). And, I know it's been thrashed about and we've a request for acknowledging that we are unlikely to change any opinions on this. That said: * I have had this discussion with a number people in the past, about the very strong negative connotations of the word "Gypsy." Ambivalent as I am, I do think we should look for a replacement word. * I thought I'd collect all the words that have been suggested so far (unless I missed one or two) in one place. Here it is: No Hand Turn No Hand Allemande (and I do think Allemande comes from "The German," a dance) Dance Around, or Walk Around Face to Face Do Si Do Bine (binary stars -- snippet below) Nose-to-Nose Do Si Do Dance Around - or Dance About Orbit Around - or Orbit About Loop Eddy Vortex Swirl Spiral Eyes or "Take Eyes" Holding Eyes Eyeballs Facing Maypole Hands Off Face à Face (facey-face...) Right (Left) Shoulder (without the G-word) Cyclone (though mentioned with a complaint - too "violent") * I like "Single File with a Smile" to replace "Indian Style." Many Indians don't like the moniker "Native American," and vice versa -- America is a name that comes from a European explorer, in some ways more insulting than the misconstrued "Indians," from the name given by a murderous European explorer... It is good, I think, to stop using words that come from stereotyped images of an oppressed or victimized people. * When thinking of our positive feelings about the word -- "happy, colorful," think about people of the slave-holding South remembered with great delight how "Nigras" were always happy, and how warm and wonderful it was when they were slaves. Of course, they rarely considered that that "happiness" stemmed from fear -- the fear of bodily injury, jail, or even lynching... * We are teaching dance in a public forum. Dog breeders use the word "bitch" regularly -- no problem. Start calling a woman that word, and the connotation is different. A chink in a chain, a dike to hold back water or in a rock formation, etc. are all used in specialized situations. I run into a similar problem as I love playing the Jews Harp... Our use of the word Gypsy in a public forum could be said to have that specialized meaning. But it can be construed to have those negative connotations. * Eric Black says he uses "Gents & Ladies," never, "men & women." Years ago I stopped using Ladies & Gents since their roots are steeped in classism, and we live in a severely class society -- even though we pretend we don't. Be that as it may, I started using Ladies & Gents again when I realized most of us don't have those connotations associated with those words. Now I've gone gender free, and use ravens & larks. But when I was young we used "him," and "he" to mean "everyone. We did notice the affect this had on young women as promoting that sense of exclusion that still dominates our culture. Most of us now say "he and she," or just "she", and it has changed how some of us think about the power of women. Language does make a difference. Much of this came about from discussions on how the words I choose to use affect some. Most of are "unaffected," by the use of certain words. Or at least we don't perceive an affect of the use of certain words. It's like those of us who are White often don't know the scrutiny Black people are subjected to throughout their everyday lives. Or the majority of us men don't live with the fear and degradation women are subjected to. It is important to understand how our language affects those around us, especially from the podium. Well, enough for now, as that's more than two-cents worth... ~erik hoffman oakland, ca The Snippet on from Richard Fischer (richardallenfischer(a)verizon.net) "Bine": > I have a suggestion for a new word to replace "gypsy." My word is "bine" and I derive it from > "binary stars" which, especially if they are of similar mass, circle each other as in our dance > move. I consulted with an astrophysicist friend, who told me that under certain circumstances > binary stars may be "tidally locked," that is, facing each other as they orbit about each other. > (Our moon is tidally locked, but in the earth-moon case it's not a mutual thing.) > > "Bine" can be used as a verb and a noun, it's one syllable and easy to say, and its etymology is > known. (And some dancers might enjoy the image). > > As others have said, I too have appreciated this thoughtful discussion. It is hard to know when > to retire an established term that has been used without intention to offend anyone, but I know > many of us are considering doing so. So I thought I'd put my suggestion out there.

10 years, 1 month

dances in unusual formations

by Donna Hunt via Callers

Hi I'm doing a workshop on dances "outside the box" (ie, no squares or contras). Anyone have any interesting dances for contra dancers that fit the criteria? I have Tom Hinds "Hexitation" and several triplets, a Zia and a Tempest, and have looked through the Ralph Page weekend glossary, but I'm wondering if you were doing a workshop like this, what would be your top pick of a dance? Thanks Donna Hunt

10 years, 1 month

Itty-bitty dances, triplets, odd numbers

by Kalia Kliban via Callers

I just called a tiny dance last night, and went through several of my triplets along with a big pile of English 3-couple dances that we did to old-time tunes (that was a little weird for me but the dancers enjoyed them, so what the heck). I was grateful to have the few triplets I had, and I'd like to expand my collection. The ones I used were Microchasmic, David's Triplet #7 and Ted's Triplet #24, which all have distinctive bits in them (contra corners, round two/drop through, and a cast to invert then 1s lead up, respectively). I like triplets that have some choreographic substance to them, something for the dancers to chew on. Do you have favorites you enjoy dancing as well as calling? I get the impression sometimes that triplets are "that thing you do to fill time until the real dancing starts," but 3-couple sets can be a whole lot of fun. And sometimes they can save your butt as a caller. We had lots of odd numbers last night, so in addition to the triplets and 3-couple English dances I used dances like Domino 5 (5 dancers) and Pride of Dingle (for 9). For a short while we had 4 couples and did contras but most of the evening was "other." Got any good dances for odd numbers? Kalia

10 years, 1 month

Itty-bitty dances, triplets, Timing Correction for David's Triplet #5

by Paul Wilde via Callers

Quick correction on timing: David's Triplet #5 David Smuckler A-1 1s cast down own side to bottom, Back up ctr to cast w/ 2s A-2 All do si do P 1 1/4 into way line of 6, balance Balance & Al R w/ P 1/2 into new wave & B-1 Bal, Pul by P by R into hey for 6 B-2 P Gypsy & Swing, face up Thanks to Tom for pointing this out. And Levi Jackson Rag is by Pat Shaw Thanks to all for the great dance suggestions. Paul

10 years, 1 month

Gypsy Wrap-Up

by Amy Wimmer via Callers

Hi All, I finally composed a response to the original complainant. Here it is, followed by an almost instant reply from him (yes, it is a male): Hello Mr.__________, Thank you for letting us know about your experience at our dance. I am glad our community was so welcoming and friendly to you. I hope you remember that in the future. As for the term "gypsy," it has been used in contra dancing for decades, and is not my invention. I am sorry you were offended by my use and description of it. It is my habit to let dancers know the name and author of each dance I call, and "gypsy" is in the title of that dance. I regret my description of the move as "flirty." I thank you for reminding me that some people are uncomfortable with that, and I will no longer suggest it. As for the name of the move itself, you are correct in that it has never been meant as a pejorative. I cannot, however, change it on my own. Contra is a folk dance and the folk process takes time. There is no governing body in charge of naming the terms used in contra dancing. When someone invents a new move they give it a name and it gradually works its way into the vernacular. I can assure you that callers nationwide are discussing this and other terms we use which we are learning are offensive to others. We are endeavoring to change what we can, but you might imagine that coming to a consensus between many hundreds of callers is neither swift nor sure. This is especially true, given the lack of a governing body. For my part, I have decided to remove the term "gypsy" from my calling and am searching for a substitute. It is not in my power to rename dances. At Emerald City Contra Dance we book approximately 25 different callers every year, from across the United States and beyond. I am just one. Please understand that if you return to our dance you may hear that term used again, until such time as awareness has spread as far and wide as the callers themselves. Sincerely, Amy Wimmer Caller and ECCD Organizer His response: Thank you for your very thoughtful and informative response. I feel much better about continuing to attend, hearing that there is an awareness of this issue and conversations happening about it.

10 years, 1 month

by David Kaynor via Callers

Sent from my edseeeesea

10 years, 1 month

The ongoing gypsy discussion

by Kalia Kliban via Callers

Just out of curiosity, since I had a gig scheduled while this discussion was going on, I tried substituting the phrase "right/left shoulders around" for "gypsy." I had not taught the move in the beginners session. The first dance this came up in had a neighbors gypsy 1-1/2. I said "neighbors right shoulders around once and a half," the dancers all did it, easy peasy. It's not too hard to remember to substitute the term, and will get easier as it goes along. I called 2 dances today, the Sebastopol English dance and the Petaluma contra. I had a few "gypsy halfway" moments at the English but no full gypsies. Several at the contra and I found the different terminology to cause not the tiniest ripple on the floor. It was seamless. Kalia

10 years, 1 month

Re: [Callers] Gypsy / "Redneck"

by Ron Blechner via Callers

"who on this list believe that contra dancers have a negative view of the Romani people because of the word gypsy?" Over the last few days, as this conversation has spilled out onto a few forms of social media, I have now heard specific stories about people who are Roma and/or have Roma heritage who are folk dancers in dance forms that use "gypsy" as a term, and are offended directly. As to your question, do you consider "negative" to include "reinforcing stereotypes"? Maybe? What if we had a dance move called "redneck". Sure, there's plenty of find country folks in America who proudly self-describe as a "redneck". There are songs written about them. There are people who dress up for Halloween as them. etc. Does that mean that there aren't also plenty of people who have been called "redneck" as a slur against the stereotype of "dumb, rural, ignorant yokels"? I find the parallels compelling enough where I'm now seriously leaning off the fence... -Ron Blechner On Sat, Oct 31, 2015 at 10:37 AM, Tom Hinds via Callers < callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > In my opinion the offended women actually helped spread a stereotype she > didn't like. Who on this list knew that Romani women had a reputation for > being (I can't remember, was it) sexual? Not me. Okay, it was the caller > she complained to who put it out there, but she started it. Should the > caller feel defensive or should the caller turn the issue around if it's > appropriate? > > I REALLY, REALLY, REALLY WANT TO KNOW, who on this list believe that > contra dancers have a negative view of the Romani people because of the > word gypsy? Anyone? > > For me the more important issue is education. I learned another tidbit > about the Romani people. Yes I understand how people can be sensitive, but > perhaps this woman needs to learn something about us before jumping to > conclusions. > > Tom > > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net >

10 years, 1 month

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