This is an excellent example of what I pointed out previously ... different uses of the same word in different contexts, where one may be considered derogatory and another quite the opposite. Homo, as in homosexual, appears to derive from the Greek translation meaning one in the same. However, the genus and species of humans is Homo sapien, and homo refers to a genus with several species that are closely related to humans, including Homo neandrathal. It derives from the Latin meaning mankind. When a person calls someone a homo, as in homosexual, they often mean it as deragatory. But I'm pretty sure no one would take offense to being called human. In the dance community, gypsy is not meant to be offensive, but quite the opposite is viewed as a positive term. Education of other meanings is useful, and goes both ways. It would be equally useful to educate the woman who brought this up that in our community it had a different meaning that generally means to travel.
Janet
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: Read Weaver via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
Date: 10/31/2015 12:09 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
Subject: Re: [Callers] Gypsy
I've known at least one person who sincerely thought “homo” was a perfectly acceptable term, carrying no particular negative connotations. Whether or not she held negative views herself, she needed to learn that she was mistaken about the connotations, and if she didn’t want to be offensive, she needed to change the word she used.
Read Weaver
Jamaica Plain, MA
http://lcfd.org
> On Oct 31, 2015, at 10:37 AM, Tom Hinds via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> In my opinion the offended women actually helped spread a stereotype she didn't like. Who on this list knew that Romani women had a reputation for being (I can't remember, was it) sexual? Not me. Okay, it was the caller she complained to who put it out there, but she started it. Should the caller feel defensive or should the caller turn the issue around if it's appropriate?
>
> I REALLY, REALLY, REALLY WANT TO KNOW, who on this list believe that contra dancers have a negative view of the Romani people because of the word gypsy? Anyone?
>
> For me the more important issue is education. I learned another tidbit about the Romani people. Yes I understand how people can be sensitive, but perhaps this woman needs to learn something about us before jumping to conclusions.
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
I am looking for some EASY wholeset dancers for a Civil War event that is
mostly teenage boys. Wholesets seem to be the best option, but I am open
to othe suggestions. Virginia Reel is an obvious choice.
Peace & Thanks!
Rich
Pleas could you clarify how you intend to pronounce "gyre"?
I have been saying "gyre" with a hard "g" as in "give" or "gimble".
But if it is related to "gyrate" then maybe people are using a soft "g" and
making it sound like "jire".
Which do you use? Thanks.
By the way, I am still having major problems with understanding why the word
needs to be changed. "Gypsy" is not inherently bad.
Just Google, say, "gypsy pope" and you will find countless articles in
countless papers and other media (including Vatican Radio) referring to
"gypsies". Are they and the pope all racist? And that is just one example.
It is only racist if you use tone or context to make it so. But that can
apply to just about any word.
And in a dance environment it is definitely not racist.
If anyone ever asks me (and I doubt it will ever happen) I will tell them
that we call people who travel to dances "dance gypsies", just using the
word to mean someone who travels; the move likewise is just a move where you
travel around each other. No deep meaning!
Happy dancing,
John
John Sweeney, Dancer, England john(a)modernjive.com 01233 625 362
http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent
On Wed, Oct 28, 2015, Michael Fuerst via Callers wrote:
>
> I have been contra dancing for 30 years or so and this is the first
> time I've encountered a question about "gypsy" being controversial.
> The people who contra dance on average are well left of center
> politically--people who would never use an ethnically offensive
> word.(Finding a bumper sticker at a contra dance gathering supporting
> a Republican candidate is quite impossible.)As you noted, language
> evolves, and the use of "gypsy" in contra dancing never had any
> offensive baggage or intent. Given the thousands of left-wing contra
> dancers who have guiltlessly gypsied over the years, having a single
> individual (who may not well be a member of the allegedly offended
> group) come to a dance, and for some reason makes the connection she
> did, does not seem adequate to drop the word.
<belly laugh> Your suggestion that progressive people promoting
political correctness always stick to their progressive principles is
risible. I suggest that you do some research into the countless number
of times that "progressive" people have screwed over minorities who
weren't in their own demographic.
To save you a bit of time, here's one specific example that consumed
large amounts of time and emotional energy in one of my other social
groups:
http://fanlore.org/wiki/RaceFail_%2709
> Your examples of "nigger" and "faggot" are not comparable, as they are
> today often sill used with intended hate.
Please re-read the messages pointing out that in Europe, particularly,
"gypsy" still definitely gets used as a hateful slur. And I don't know
enough about *ALL* of American culture to presume that "gypsy" isn't used
that way here in significant subcultures. Certainly "gyp" (as a verb)
does get used.
--
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6 http://rule6.info/
<*> <*> <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html
Then Gypsy meltdown could be "gyre and gambol (sic) in the wabe." This
would be particularly true if the gypsy and swing are used as a "catch up"
move when the couple is wabehind.
If the term is to be changed I think there should be agreement as to what the replacement is and not have a variety of terms. The health of many contra dance series is very dependent upon new dancers coming and having a good time so they return. There is a big vocabulary to learn and having it not be the same at successive or neighboring dances would add to the confusion.
On Oct 28, 2015, at 3:21 PM, Don Veino via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> Might I suggest at this point there's been enough shared such that folks have figured out where they are on this subject? And, while the discussion has been informative, that further posts will do little to change anyone's beliefs?
>
> If that's accepted, I further suggest we move forward with our own personal belief and act as conscience dictates:
> Should you wish to continue with the status quo call, then do so and incorporate whatever learning you've taken from this exchange to improve your teaching and leading. Your further experience and learning from dance participants may inform your future view.
> Should you be motivated to change the term, have a conversation with your dance organizer(s) and try out an alternate call/description, should they be willing - see how it goes. That learning may inform the culture by example.
> I hope we can trust the Folk Process to be robust enough to do its thing in this matter - as it has so many times before.
> _______________________________________________
> Callers mailing list
> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
For those interested in the historical derivation of our terms:
As Alan said, the Allemande was a couple dance from the late 1700s. In it,
both hands were held, and the arms moved through various positions. This
put the couple in much closer contact than they were in the minuet, in
which the only physical contact was through hands held at arm's length.
This makes the Allemande an important part of the transition of couple
dancing from the minuet to the waltz.
The dance form known as Germans was shortened from German Cotillions.
These were musical games which were popular in ballrooms in the 1800s.
Here's a link to an example of the Allemande being danced:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3ay1kAK0YA
Jacob
On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 6:00 AM, Alan Winston via Callers <
callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>
> On 10/29/15 2:45 AM, Jeff Kaufman via Callers wrote:
>
> On Oct 29, 2015 4:24 AM, "Erik Hoffman via Callers" <
> callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> > No Hand Allemande (and I do think Allemande comes from "The
> German," a dance)
> >
>
> I wonder what we'll do if we discover that to some Germans the French term
> "Allemande" is derogatory and they prefer to be called "Deutsche".
>
> Given that "allemande" is an incredibly-overloaded term in different dance
> genres - it's a progressive figure for two or three couples in Scottish
> dancing; it's a kind of 1700s couple dance; it's a pretzel-armed turn in
> cotillions, it's a not-100%-clearly-understood-thing-with-a-circular-track
> in Regency-era longways dances, it's an elbow turn, it's a hand turn - it
> wouldn't ruin my life if we started saying "hand turn" instead of
> "allemande".
>
> Just sayin'. (Although I would miss "allemande left with your left hand,
> walk right in to a right and left grand" and the allemande alphabet.)
>
> -- Alan
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Callers mailing list
> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>
>
Hello All,
I taught a dance this evening that included a ladies' gypsy. I received the
email below a few minutes ago. In teaching it I wanted to convey that it is
a flirty, eye contact sort of move. This person was obviously offended. I
am at a loss for how to respond, except to apologize for offending.
I'm pretty sure I described the move accurately. I meant absolutely no
offense. I didn't make up the name for the move, but don't want to make
excuses. Does this move need a new name? How would you respond?
-Amy
Seattle
Begin forwarded message:
*Subject:* *First time at your event*
This evening, I came to one of your dances for the first time. I was
impressed by the friendliness of the dancers, the quality of the musicians,
and the overall fun of the dance.
And then we got to a dance in which we were told we would be learning a
step named after an offensive term for Romani people. And I felt
uncomfortable. And then when the step was taught, it became clear that the
term was so named based on stereotypes of Romani women as being overly
sexual. And I became more uncomfortable.
I assume that this was not done maliciously, but rather out of an
unawareness of the ways that that term has been used to denigrate Romani
people throughout history (much the same way that many other racial slurs
have been used in the past by well-meaning people before they became aware
that those terms were hurtful and harmful to those disadvantaged groups).
Nonetheless, it felt shockingly offensive to me, all the more so in the
context of a community that appeared to be so welcoming and accepting.
Until that point, I had a very enjoyable time dancing at your event. I've
been a dancer in a variety of communities for many years now, and aside
from that issue, this was probably the best first experience I've had when
meeting a new dance community. It was a shame that some presumably
unintentional racial insensitivity had to ruin what was otherwise such a
positive experience.
Country Song and Dance Society is coming to NYC and would love to meet you,
dance with you, and learn about your local dance community! The schedule
includes ECD and Contra with talent from near and far. The potluck on
Saturday between the dances will be a great opportunity to munch, mix, and
mingle. Ritual dancers may make surprise visits too.
Please invite your communities of FDOs as well as dancers, musicians, and
callers! We hope to see you on the dance floor!
https://www.facebook.com/events/1110110708999514/
Schedule, locations, and subway directions:
FRIDAY:
Friday 7:30-10:30 CDNY English Country Dance with callers *Brooke Friendly,
Jill Allen, Jenny Beer*! Manhattan. (Needs some embellishment to match
below.)
Friday 7:30-11 Brooklyn Contra and Village Contra Present:* The Brooklyn
Swing Ensemble with *Alexandra Deis-Lauby and Quena Crain. Wonderful local
talent, gender free calling, and a vibrant dance community! Brooklyn.
SATURDAY in Manhattan:
Saturday 3-6 Advanced Contra dance with music and calling by KING KONTRA
all the way from ENGLAND! http://www.cbdb.co.uk/king-kontra/
<http://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cbdb.co.uk%2Fking-kontra%2F&…>
*Saturday 6-8:00 Community meeting and potluck with CDSS Executive
Committee members. *
Saturday 7:30-10:45 More KING KONTRA! Callers include CDSS Board Members: *Jill
Allen, Brooke Friendly* and local talent! New dancer workshop from 7:30-8:00
.
Manhattan events take place at:
The Church of the Village
201 West 13th street at 7th ave.
NY, NY
Subway trains at the corner of 7th Ave and 14th Street are 1, 2, or 3. F,
A, C, E a block away. D, N, 4, 5, or 6 a 10-minute walk away.
The Brooklyn dance takes place at:
Camp Friendship
339 8th st, Brooklyn NY
Subway trains F, G, R.
*Join us on the dance floor!*
The Ralph Page Dance Legacy weekend will be on the weekend of January
15-17, 2016 in the Memorial Union Building at the University of New
Hampshire.
Come and join us for a great weekend of dance, music, and dance
history. We even expect Ralph Page, himself, to join us briefly for a
few dances.
This year we have added the ability to register online. Please let us
know if you have any problems with the online registration so we can
fix it as soon as possible.
http://ralphpage.neffa.org/
Rich Hart.
