13 Mar
2023
13 Mar
'23
4:45 p.m.
Newbies are not returning my thoughts...
Why? not feeling welcome?, feeling intimidated/too hard? Coming late to
lesson and being lost/confused during dance? Lack of feeling of
mastery/learning? Need follow up lesson since we only dance 1x/month? One
month is a long time to wait for another lesson. Not enough younger
dancers like themselves?
Ideas:
1. Use beginner friendly buttons
2. Ask experienced dancers to dance with beginners for first 2 dances at
least. Board members lead by example.
3. Encourage experienced dancers to come for the beginner lesson to
welcome/socialize with new dancers.
4. Have caller or one of us give out free passes (pass for next dance) at
the lesson so we don't have to remember to do it at the table. We gave out
15 free passes to new dancers in Feb and did not get any to return in
March. (March dance was on 2nd sat instead of our normal 3rd sat and it's
spring break. Feb attendance 61, March 38 (paid dancers, not including 3
listeners). Also there was a local magazine article about LBDA in February
and we had our most experienced and popular contra dance band (Kaw Creek)
playing.
5. Our Lesson is at 7:00, Dance 7:30. Should we use start time 7:00 in
advertising bc experienced dancers will figure it out and adjust to coming
at 7:30 more easily than new people knowing they need to come at 7:00 for
the lesson. New people attending and being on time for 7:00 lesson is
important for a smooth dance so do we need to advertise that way? Want
experienced dancers to be there to meet and socialize with them so they can
be better integrated into the community and not feel so awkward. I have
suggested this to our board before, but was told that would be manipulative
toward experienced dancers who would be upset that they came too early and
wasted their time. That feels like a very unwelcoming attitude, and I
would like to encourage all our dancers to consider that 7:00 is our start
time because beginners are important and we need to be there to greet them
and socialize.
6. Schedule a 1 hour lesson or series of lessons led by experienced callers
Lisa and or Jill and a couple new callers... before the dance? On a
different day? Through Parks and Rec this summer?
7. New dancers are far outnumbering experienced dancers. Need to do
advanced dance to pull back in some dancers who drifted away after the
pandemic. Contact individually by phone/email?
And then getting younger people to attend is a whole other but strongly
related topic we need to address more effectively. We are not getting
enough young people at dances. It appears to me that when a young person
comes they often decide to not return because there aren't enough people in
their age group.
Please tell me if you like/encourage these ideas I have come up with so far
and add others.
Especially I want to know how to get new people to come on time for the
lesson.
Is it ok to advertise dance for 7:00 even though first 30 minutes is
lesson? It's frustrating for our callers and then they don't get a full
lesson which is not good for anyone.
13 Mar
13 Mar
7:54 p.m.
Watching this as we have the same issue. We are (I believe) the 2nd largest
city in NYS and have the most pitiful turnout.
I think you have some good ideas here.
One comment: we often or even always speak about our dance not only gender
free, no partner necessary to bring, but also as no lessons needed, each
dance being taught and "walked through". Then we advertise "the
lesson" b4
the dance. If words matter (and I think we agree they do) the this is a
huge contradiction.
I say to people these sets of words & phrasing: easy, walking to music,
Only 8 steps, no need to bring partner but a friend is fun, dances are
taught, practiced (stole from country line dance & swing) and then they are
prompted once the music starts. We offer basic move instruction rather than
lesson.
I don't really know if these changes help, hinder or have no effect. I only
know that not having a friend anchor for the first few dances would have
resulted in my not coming back. The lesson too. But that's just my
perception.
We give out "get in free" cards and encourage ppl to share theirs with a
friend. I also encourage people who say "I told my friends...", to next
dance offer to pick them up or meet b4 and come together.
We also encourage experienced dancers to partner with new dancers.
I am anxious to hear other's ideas.
Mary "from Buffalo", not.
On Mon, Mar 13, 2023, 12:49 PM Sandy Seiler via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Newbies are not returning my thoughts...
Why? not feeling welcome?, feeling intimidated/too hard? Coming late to
lesson and being lost/confused during dance? Lack of feeling of
mastery/learning? Need follow up lesson since we only dance 1x/month? One
month is a long time to wait for another lesson. Not enough younger
dancers like themselves?
Ideas:
1. Use beginner friendly buttons
2. Ask experienced dancers to dance with beginners for first 2 dances at
least. Board members lead by example.
3. Encourage experienced dancers to come for the beginner lesson to
welcome/socialize with new dancers.
4. Have caller or one of us give out free passes (pass for next dance) at
the lesson so we don't have to remember to do it at the table. We gave out
15 free passes to new dancers in Feb and did not get any to return in
March. (March dance was on 2nd sat instead of our normal 3rd sat and it's
spring break. Feb attendance 61, March 38 (paid dancers, not including 3
listeners). Also there was a local magazine article about LBDA in February
and we had our most experienced and popular contra dance band (Kaw Creek)
playing.
5. Our Lesson is at 7:00, Dance 7:30. Should we use start time 7:00 in
advertising bc experienced dancers will figure it out and adjust to coming
at 7:30 more easily than new people knowing they need to come at 7:00 for
the lesson. New people attending and being on time for 7:00 lesson is
important for a smooth dance so do we need to advertise that way? Want
experienced dancers to be there to meet and socialize with them so they can
be better integrated into the community and not feel so awkward. I have
suggested this to our board before, but was told that would be manipulative
toward experienced dancers who would be upset that they came too early and
wasted their time. That feels like a very unwelcoming attitude, and I
would like to encourage all our dancers to consider that 7:00 is our start
time because beginners are important and we need to be there to greet them
and socialize.
6. Schedule a 1 hour lesson or series of lessons led by experienced
callers Lisa and or Jill and a couple new callers... before the dance? On
a different day? Through Parks and Rec this summer?
7. New dancers are far outnumbering experienced dancers. Need to do
advanced dance to pull back in some dancers who drifted away after the
pandemic. Contact individually by phone/email?
And then getting younger people to attend is a whole other but strongly
related topic we need to address more effectively. We are not getting
enough young people at dances. It appears to me that when a young person
comes they often decide to not return because there aren't enough people in
their age group.
Please tell me if you like/encourage these ideas I have come up with so
far and add others.
Especially I want to know how to get new people to come on time for the
lesson.
Is it ok to advertise dance for 7:00 even though first 30 minutes is
lesson? It's frustrating for our callers and then they don't get a full
lesson which is not good for anyone.
_______________________________________________
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8:34 p.m.
Mary,
Is the Buffalo dance gender free? The website tells callers to use gents and ladies. If
the dance is in fact gender free, then the website needs updating. If you are advertising
the dance as gender free but use gents and ladies, that would certainly not encourage me
to return if I were a new dancer.
On Mar 13, 2023, at 3:54 PM, Mary Collins via
Organizers <organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Watching this as we have the same issue. We are (I believe) the 2nd largest city in NYS
and have the most pitiful turnout.
I think you have some good ideas here.
One comment: we often or even always speak about our dance not only gender free, no
partner necessary to bring, but also as no lessons needed, each dance being taught and
"walked through". Then we advertise "the lesson" b4 the dance. If
words matter (and I think we agree they do) the this is a huge contradiction.
I say to people these sets of words & phrasing: easy, walking to music, Only 8 steps,
no need to bring partner but a friend is fun, dances are taught, practiced (stole from
country line dance & swing) and then they are prompted once the music starts. We offer
basic move instruction rather than lesson.
I don't really know if these changes help, hinder or have no effect. I only know that
not having a friend anchor for the first few dances would have resulted in my not coming
back. The lesson too. But that's just my perception.
We give out "get in free" cards and encourage ppl to share theirs with a
friend. I also encourage people who say "I told my friends...", to next dance
offer to pick them up or meet b4 and come together.
We also encourage experienced dancers to partner with new dancers.
I am anxious to hear other's ideas.
Mary "from Buffalo", not.
On Mon, Mar 13, 2023, 12:49 PM Sandy Seiler via Organizers
<organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net <mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>>
wrote:
Newbies are not returning my thoughts...
Why? not feeling welcome?, feeling intimidated/too hard? Coming late to lesson and being
lost/confused during dance? Lack of feeling of mastery/learning? Need follow up lesson
since we only dance 1x/month? One month is a long time to wait for another lesson. Not
enough younger dancers like themselves?
Ideas:
1. Use beginner friendly buttons
2. Ask experienced dancers to dance with beginners for first 2 dances at least. Board
members lead by example.
3. Encourage experienced dancers to come for the beginner lesson to welcome/socialize
with new dancers.
4. Have caller or one of us give out free passes (pass for next dance) at the lesson so
we don't have to remember to do it at the table. We gave out 15 free passes to new
dancers in Feb and did not get any to return in March. (March dance was on 2nd sat instead
of our normal 3rd sat and it's spring break. Feb attendance 61, March 38 (paid
dancers, not including 3 listeners). Also there was a local magazine article about LBDA
in February and we had our most experienced and popular contra dance band (Kaw Creek)
playing.
5. Our Lesson is at 7:00, Dance 7:30. Should we use start time 7:00 in advertising bc
experienced dancers will figure it out and adjust to coming at 7:30 more easily than new
people knowing they need to come at 7:00 for the lesson. New people attending and being
on time for 7:00 lesson is important for a smooth dance so do we need to advertise that
way? Want experienced dancers to be there to meet and socialize with them so they can be
better integrated into the community and not feel so awkward. I have suggested this to
our board before, but was told that would be manipulative toward experienced dancers who
would be upset that they came too early and wasted their time. That feels like a very
unwelcoming attitude, and I would like to encourage all our dancers to consider that 7:00
is our start time because beginners are important and we need to be there to greet them
and socialize.
6. Schedule a 1 hour lesson or series of lessons led by experienced callers Lisa and or
Jill and a couple new callers... before the dance? On a different day? Through Parks and
Rec this summer?
7. New dancers are far outnumbering experienced dancers. Need to do advanced dance to
pull back in some dancers who drifted away after the pandemic. Contact individually by
phone/email?
And then getting younger people to attend is a whole other but strongly related topic we
need to address more effectively. We are not getting enough young people at dances. It
appears to me that when a young person comes they often decide to not return because there
aren't enough people in their age group.
Please tell me if you like/encourage these ideas I have come up with so far and add
others.
Especially I want to know how to get new people to come on time for the lesson.
Is it ok to advertise dance for 7:00 even though first 30 minutes is lesson? It's
frustrating for our callers and then they don't get a full lesson which is not good
for anyone.
_______________________________________________
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<mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>
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<mailto:organizers-leave@lists.sharedweight.net>
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14 Mar
14 Mar
6:39 a.m.
I'm in the same boat. Orlando's dance is about 20 dancers each week.
We've been at it since last summer and the numbers have not changed. About
half the group is newbies each time. A few come back, but often after 2-4
dances they don't come anymore. One referred to contra as "cute", and I
suppose the easy dances are. We have just a handful of regulars. So, I've
been giving this a lot of thought. I don't have magic answers, or I
wouldn't still have the problem. Some observations:
I can't call anything too complex with that number of newbies. If someone
has come half a dozen times, they're likely outgrowing the dance and
getting bored. They probably have all my dances memorized, too. It may be
the experienced dancers I need to incentivize, not the newbies, if I want
to retain people after a few weeks! Raising the level toward the end of
the evening is hard, as then we only have about 12 dancers, half newbies.
Finances are hard, too. I'd hire another caller if I could afford it.
I've done it a few times, but that's not enough. CDSS grants are far below
the $500/week of a basic dance with hall, music, caller, and sound.
People today have many more options of things to do than in the past. They
often like to try out different things with the same friend group. They
may feel that coming every third time is a deep commitment to the dance.
This makes it hard for the group as a whole to improve enough to retain
many dancers after a few times, as it takes each person several months
rather than several weeks to get good. The lower level drives experienced
people away.
People do social activities to connect with others. They either need to go
with friends who already like it (so this is the only option for hanging
out with those friends that night) or they need to make friends there.
It's good to have a welcoming committee. It's good if people verbally
welcome the new dancers and ask them to dance. It's far better if people
strike up genuine friendships with them, such that they want to return to
hang out and dance with those people. But, it is difficult to arrange
something genuine, especially across generations. Things like going out
for ice cream afterwards help, though.
People who have come a few times are less likely to make a point of coming
the very next time than either regulars or newbies who have seen an ad and
decided they want to try it. Even though we have a calendar of future
dances and we make a lot of announcements on social media and I personally
send an individual Facebook chat to every dancer in my friend list, I still
get plenty of, oh I have something that night, gee if only I'd known, etc.
I've made business cards with QR codes for the dance and hand these out
both as ads for people to give to friends and to remind them to put the
next dance on their calendar.
It goes without saying that if people (especially younger women) are
experiencing unwanted behavior or are being treated in an unpleasant way,
they won't come back. Reactively managing these problems isn't enough.
You often won't hear about them unless you seek them out by making a safe
space and asking people individually whether they're always treated well.
Setting behavioral expectations and letting people know of the recourse
paths starts in the workshop and continues with signs and mentions during
the dance. A culture of consent and courtesy is key. If nobody is
returning, you might have a problem of this sort.
To make the dance attractive to a given group, put that group on your board
in sufficient numbers to change the program and outreach so that it
attracts more of them.
We were all (mostly) dragged to a dance by a friend. Find the people doing
this (the social centers of each friend group) and incentivize them.
People bond over food. Have snacks at the break.
Make it free for students, young people, and low-income or jobless people
if you're hoping to attract them. Ask people who are well off to make up
the difference, in private, one-on-one conversations.
I've heard a lot of anecdotal information about second-dance-free cards and
the like. I am curious if anyone has real data about their effectiveness.
But, the bottom line is, if it were really the best experience of their
lives, they'd come back. I'm doing what I can to get better at calling and
to have better music, to raise the funds to have different callers and live
bands every time, and to advertise, advertise, advertise, so the numbers
come up, we can afford a quality program, and the experience improves.
--jh--
On Mon, Mar 13, 2023 at 4:37 PM Alexandra Deis-Lauby via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Mary,
Is the Buffalo dance gender free? The website tells callers to use gents
and ladies. If the dance is in fact gender free, then the website needs
updating. If you are advertising the dance as gender free but use gents
and ladies, that would certainly not encourage me to return if I were a new
dancer.
On Mar 13, 2023, at 3:54 PM, Mary Collins via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Watching this as we have the same issue. We are (I believe) the 2nd
largest city in NYS and have the most pitiful turnout.
I think you have some good ideas here.
One comment: we often or even always speak about our dance not only gender
free, no partner necessary to bring, but also as no lessons needed, each
dance being taught and "walked through". Then we advertise "the
lesson" b4
the dance. If words matter (and I think we agree they do) the this is a
huge contradiction.
I say to people these sets of words & phrasing: easy, walking to music,
Only 8 steps, no need to bring partner but a friend is fun, dances are
taught, practiced (stole from country line dance & swing) and then they are
prompted once the music starts. We offer basic move instruction rather than
lesson.
I don't really know if these changes help, hinder or have no effect. I
only know that not having a friend anchor for the first few dances would
have resulted in my not coming back. The lesson too. But that's just my
perception.
We give out "get in free" cards and encourage ppl to share theirs with a
friend. I also encourage people who say "I told my friends...", to next
dance offer to pick them up or meet b4 and come together.
We also encourage experienced dancers to partner with new dancers.
I am anxious to hear other's ideas.
Mary "from Buffalo", not.
On Mon, Mar 13, 2023, 12:49 PM Sandy Seiler via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Newbies are not returning my thoughts...
Why? not feeling welcome?, feeling intimidated/too hard? Coming late to
lesson and being lost/confused during dance? Lack of feeling of
mastery/learning? Need follow up lesson since we only dance 1x/month? One
month is a long time to wait for another lesson. Not enough younger
dancers like themselves?
Ideas:
1. Use beginner friendly buttons
2. Ask experienced dancers to dance with beginners for first 2 dances at
least. Board members lead by example.
3. Encourage experienced dancers to come for the beginner lesson to
welcome/socialize with new dancers.
4. Have caller or one of us give out free passes (pass for next dance) at
the lesson so we don't have to remember to do it at the table. We gave out
15 free passes to new dancers in Feb and did not get any to return in
March. (March dance was on 2nd sat instead of our normal 3rd sat and it's
spring break. Feb attendance 61, March 38 (paid dancers, not including 3
listeners). Also there was a local magazine article about LBDA in February
and we had our most experienced and popular contra dance band (Kaw Creek)
playing.
5. Our Lesson is at 7:00, Dance 7:30. Should we use start time 7:00 in
advertising bc experienced dancers will figure it out and adjust to coming
at 7:30 more easily than new people knowing they need to come at 7:00 for
the lesson. New people attending and being on time for 7:00 lesson is
important for a smooth dance so do we need to advertise that way? Want
experienced dancers to be there to meet and socialize with them so they can
be better integrated into the community and not feel so awkward. I have
suggested this to our board before, but was told that would be manipulative
toward experienced dancers who would be upset that they came too early and
wasted their time. That feels like a very unwelcoming attitude, and I
would like to encourage all our dancers to consider that 7:00 is our start
time because beginners are important and we need to be there to greet them
and socialize.
6. Schedule a 1 hour lesson or series of lessons led by experienced
callers Lisa and or Jill and a couple new callers... before the dance? On
a different day? Through Parks and Rec this summer?
7. New dancers are far outnumbering experienced dancers. Need to do
advanced dance to pull back in some dancers who drifted away after the
pandemic. Contact individually by phone/email?
And then getting younger people to attend is a whole other but strongly
related topic we need to address more effectively. We are not getting
enough young people at dances. It appears to me that when a young person
comes they often decide to not return because there aren't enough people in
their age group.
Please tell me if you like/encourage these ideas I have come up with so
far and add others.
Especially I want to know how to get new people to come on time for the
lesson.
Is it ok to advertise dance for 7:00 even though first 30 minutes is
lesson? It's frustrating for our callers and then they don't get a full
lesson which is not good for anyone.
_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
_______________________________________________
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11:50 a.m.
Alexander- oops...while we are not specifically gender free, we strive for
it in a very very conservative group of older dancers. I am scheduled to
meet with our web person soon and will adress verbage. Thanks for this info.
On Mon, Mar 13, 2023, 4:34 PM Alexandra Deis-Lauby <adeislauby(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Mary,
Is the Buffalo dance gender free? The website tells callers to use gents
and ladies. If the dance is in fact gender free, then the website needs
updating. If you are advertising the dance as gender free but use gents
and ladies, that would certainly not encourage me to return if I were a new
dancer.
On Mar 13, 2023, at 3:54 PM, Mary Collins via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Watching this as we have the same issue. We are (I believe) the 2nd
largest city in NYS and have the most pitiful turnout.
I think you have some good ideas here.
One comment: we often or even always speak about our dance not only gender
free, no partner necessary to bring, but also as no lessons needed, each
dance being taught and "walked through". Then we advertise "the
lesson" b4
the dance. If words matter (and I think we agree they do) the this is a
huge contradiction.
I say to people these sets of words & phrasing: easy, walking to music,
Only 8 steps, no need to bring partner but a friend is fun, dances are
taught, practiced (stole from country line dance & swing) and then they are
prompted once the music starts. We offer basic move instruction rather than
lesson.
I don't really know if these changes help, hinder or have no effect. I
only know that not having a friend anchor for the first few dances would
have resulted in my not coming back. The lesson too. But that's just my
perception.
We give out "get in free" cards and encourage ppl to share theirs with a
friend. I also encourage people who say "I told my friends...", to next
dance offer to pick them up or meet b4 and come together.
We also encourage experienced dancers to partner with new dancers.
I am anxious to hear other's ideas.
Mary "from Buffalo", not.
On Mon, Mar 13, 2023, 12:49 PM Sandy Seiler via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Newbies are not returning my thoughts...
Why? not feeling welcome?, feeling intimidated/too hard? Coming late to
lesson and being lost/confused during dance? Lack of feeling of
mastery/learning? Need follow up lesson since we only dance 1x/month? One
month is a long time to wait for another lesson. Not enough younger
dancers like themselves?
Ideas:
1. Use beginner friendly buttons
2. Ask experienced dancers to dance with beginners for first 2 dances at
least. Board members lead by example.
3. Encourage experienced dancers to come for the beginner lesson to
welcome/socialize with new dancers.
4. Have caller or one of us give out free passes (pass for next dance) at
the lesson so we don't have to remember to do it at the table. We gave out
15 free passes to new dancers in Feb and did not get any to return in
March. (March dance was on 2nd sat instead of our normal 3rd sat and it's
spring break. Feb attendance 61, March 38 (paid dancers, not including 3
listeners). Also there was a local magazine article about LBDA in February
and we had our most experienced and popular contra dance band (Kaw Creek)
playing.
5. Our Lesson is at 7:00, Dance 7:30. Should we use start time 7:00 in
advertising bc experienced dancers will figure it out and adjust to coming
at 7:30 more easily than new people knowing they need to come at 7:00 for
the lesson. New people attending and being on time for 7:00 lesson is
important for a smooth dance so do we need to advertise that way? Want
experienced dancers to be there to meet and socialize with them so they can
be better integrated into the community and not feel so awkward. I have
suggested this to our board before, but was told that would be manipulative
toward experienced dancers who would be upset that they came too early and
wasted their time. That feels like a very unwelcoming attitude, and I
would like to encourage all our dancers to consider that 7:00 is our start
time because beginners are important and we need to be there to greet them
and socialize.
6. Schedule a 1 hour lesson or series of lessons led by experienced
callers Lisa and or Jill and a couple new callers... before the dance? On
a different day? Through Parks and Rec this summer?
7. New dancers are far outnumbering experienced dancers. Need to do
advanced dance to pull back in some dancers who drifted away after the
pandemic. Contact individually by phone/email?
And then getting younger people to attend is a whole other but strongly
related topic we need to address more effectively. We are not getting
enough young people at dances. It appears to me that when a young person
comes they often decide to not return because there aren't enough people in
their age group.
Please tell me if you like/encourage these ideas I have come up with so
far and add others.
Especially I want to know how to get new people to come on time for the
lesson.
Is it ok to advertise dance for 7:00 even though first 30 minutes is
lesson? It's frustrating for our callers and then they don't get a full
lesson which is not good for anyone.
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
_______________________________________________
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1:25 p.m.
Could you specifically address my question of how to get new dancers to
show up on time for the lesson? I think it would be ok to advertise the
event as starting at 7:00 with lesson (or basic moves instruction) in the
first half hour. I feel like when new people come at 7:00 and experienced
arrive at 7:30 that already sets the newbies up as "a tribe apart". We
need to get as many as possible there at 7:00 to integrate and socialize.
Thoughts?
On Tue, Mar 14, 2023 at 6:50 AM Mary Collins <nativedae(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Alexander- oops...while we are not specifically gender
free, we strive for
it in a very very conservative group of older dancers. I am scheduled to
meet with our web person soon and will adress verbage. Thanks for this info.
On Mon, Mar 13, 2023, 4:34 PM Alexandra Deis-Lauby <adeislauby(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
> Mary,
>
> Is the Buffalo dance gender free? The website tells callers to use gents
> and ladies. If the dance is in fact gender free, then the website needs
> updating. If you are advertising the dance as gender free but use gents
> and ladies, that would certainly not encourage me to return if I were a new
> dancer.
>
>
>
> On Mar 13, 2023, at 3:54 PM, Mary Collins via Organizers <
> organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> Watching this as we have the same issue. We are (I believe) the 2nd
> largest city in NYS and have the most pitiful turnout.
>
> I think you have some good ideas here.
>
> One comment: we often or even always speak about our dance not only
> gender free, no partner necessary to bring, but also as no lessons needed,
> each dance being taught and "walked through". Then we advertise "the
> lesson" b4 the dance. If words matter (and I think we agree they do) the
> this is a huge contradiction.
>
> I say to people these sets of words & phrasing: easy, walking to music,
> Only 8 steps, no need to bring partner but a friend is fun, dances are
> taught, practiced (stole from country line dance & swing) and then they are
> prompted once the music starts. We offer basic move instruction rather than
> lesson.
>
> I don't really know if these changes help, hinder or have no effect. I
> only know that not having a friend anchor for the first few dances would
> have resulted in my not coming back. The lesson too. But that's just my
> perception.
>
> We give out "get in free" cards and encourage ppl to share theirs with a
> friend. I also encourage people who say "I told my friends...", to next
> dance offer to pick them up or meet b4 and come together.
>
> We also encourage experienced dancers to partner with new dancers.
>
> I am anxious to hear other's ideas.
>
> Mary "from Buffalo", not.
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 13, 2023, 12:49 PM Sandy Seiler via Organizers <
> organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> Newbies are not returning my thoughts...
>> Why? not feeling welcome?, feeling intimidated/too hard? Coming late to
>> lesson and being lost/confused during dance? Lack of feeling of
>> mastery/learning? Need follow up lesson since we only dance 1x/month? One
>> month is a long time to wait for another lesson. Not enough younger
>> dancers like themselves?
>> Ideas:
>> 1. Use beginner friendly buttons
>> 2. Ask experienced dancers to dance with beginners for first 2 dances at
>> least. Board members lead by example.
>> 3. Encourage experienced dancers to come for the beginner lesson to
>> welcome/socialize with new dancers.
>> 4. Have caller or one of us give out free passes (pass for next dance)
>> at the lesson so we don't have to remember to do it at the table. We gave
>> out 15 free passes to new dancers in Feb and did not get any to return in
>> March. (March dance was on 2nd sat instead of our normal 3rd sat and it's
>> spring break. Feb attendance 61, March 38 (paid dancers, not including 3
>> listeners). Also there was a local magazine article about LBDA in February
>> and we had our most experienced and popular contra dance band (Kaw Creek)
>> playing.
>> 5. Our Lesson is at 7:00, Dance 7:30. Should we use start time 7:00 in
>> advertising bc experienced dancers will figure it out and adjust to coming
>> at 7:30 more easily than new people knowing they need to come at 7:00 for
>> the lesson. New people attending and being on time for 7:00 lesson is
>> important for a smooth dance so do we need to advertise that way? Want
>> experienced dancers to be there to meet and socialize with them so they can
>> be better integrated into the community and not feel so awkward. I have
>> suggested this to our board before, but was told that would be manipulative
>> toward experienced dancers who would be upset that they came too early and
>> wasted their time. That feels like a very unwelcoming attitude, and I
>> would like to encourage all our dancers to consider that 7:00 is our start
>> time because beginners are important and we need to be there to greet them
>> and socialize.
>> 6. Schedule a 1 hour lesson or series of lessons led by experienced
>> callers Lisa and or Jill and a couple new callers... before the dance? On
>> a different day? Through Parks and Rec this summer?
>> 7. New dancers are far outnumbering experienced dancers. Need to do
>> advanced dance to pull back in some dancers who drifted away after the
>> pandemic. Contact individually by phone/email?
>>
>> And then getting younger people to attend is a whole other but strongly
>> related topic we need to address more effectively. We are not getting
>> enough young people at dances. It appears to me that when a young person
>> comes they often decide to not return because there aren't enough people in
>> their age group.
>>
>> Please tell me if you like/encourage these ideas I have come up with so
>> far and add others.
>> Especially I want to know how to get new people to come on time for the
>> lesson.
>> Is it ok to advertise dance for 7:00 even though first 30 minutes is
>> lesson? It's frustrating for our callers and then they don't get a full
>> lesson which is not good for anyone.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>
>
>
2:57 p.m.
I think we're doing about all we can to get them there at 7, but I'm eager
for ideas. Here's maybe too much detail on what we do, and the result,
thoughts welcome, especially if you get better results. But, we used to
get worse, so this may be about as much as we can expect.
Our website (contraknights.org) and socials (Contra Knights on FB, IG,
Discord, all linked from the website if you want to check them out) say the
doors open at 6:30 and the dance runs 7-10:30, starts with a lesson for new
dancers, and has open dancing starting around 7:30. It requests new
dancers to show up in time to start dancing at 7:00, and in one place uses
boldface and the word "sharp". I want to encourage experienced dancers to
come at 7 but not require it, as some in our student group weren't coming
at all when we presented the dance as starting at 7 and then spent 30
minutes in the lesson. They told us that was why. Now some come at 7:30
or even 8, but with a good attitude, and enough show up at 7.
Perhaps more importantly, when we talk to dancers about bringing new
people, we emphasize the need to bring them in time to start at 7. We
especially do this after dances when we have a big bunch come in at 7:30 or
later and confuse the dance (we're small, so four newbies showing up at
7:30 might be 20% of the group). We do this in the Discord server for the
student club and in discussion in the break and after. On socials for the
open dance, I'll sometimes say, be sure to bring those newbies in time for
the lesson at 7. The organizers are divided about whether to encourage a
newbie to come late if the alternative is not coming at all. I think the
answer is one or two, yes, bigger groups, no. A larger dance can absorb a
bigger group of newbies. One newbie per minor set is a good rule of thumb
for rapid integration into the dance. Since we start out with half
newbies, more walking in after the workshop is a real challenge to us.
We do encourage experienced dancers to dance with newbies, especially
early. Again, if we require it, some of the experienced dancers won't
come, as this means they'll never get to dance with each other, given our
50%.
Of course, it always has to be said positively and inclusively, as in, so
WE'll all feel comfortable and dance well together when the regular dancing
starts at 7:30, never, so THEY don't mess us up! A reason doesn't need to
be given, but in conversational contexts like social media I think it helps
sometimes. It's rare to be in a context where no newbies can hear!
This gets about a third to half the newbies actually there at 7, and most
by 7:15 or so. Some still walk in late. A decent number of people who
have been at least once also come at 7, and by 7:30 about half our
experienced dancers are dancing in the workshop. They know (and we tell
them, again informally) that their participation in the workshop helps the
newbies learn faster, especially the swing, and makes the dance better.
Our ads say, "Join us for high-energy dancing", "inclusive community",
and
"beginners welcome". We had "all dances taught" and others in the
past but
simplified it. I think that if you emphasize the teaching and simplicity
too much, you're telegraphing that it isn't easy (shades of a bank
president saying, "we're fully capitalized" out of the blue last week! what
more terrifying words can you hear from your bank?). People go to social
events for fun and social interaction, so we try to emphasize those. We
also have a friendly cartoon that visually telegraphs the joy of dancing
together as the centerpiece of all our ads. I think photographs have a
harder time doing this, except perhaps the very best.
Here's the text in one of our Facebook events:
[picture with cartoon, encouraging words, and website]
[when-where-etc in standard FB event format]
This event is for EVERYONE: beginner, experienced, old, and young. Click
GOING!
Celebrate St. Patrick's with LIVE MUSIC by McIntyre and calling by Joe
Harrington! McIntyre is Lisa McIntyre on guitar, George Houston on
percussion, Terry Henson on bass, and Sharon Hartmann on hot Irish fiddle.
We'll be in the new Winter Park Ballroom Dance Company, just 15 minutes
from UCF and right next to Jeremiah's Italian Ice (we'll go there after).
Bring friends or come alone and make some. Wear some GREEN! (But absolutely
no pinching allowed!)
What is contra? Where do I park? See: https://contraknights.org/
<https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fcontraknights.org%2F%3Ffbclid%3DIwAR2YjzgCqg-ubXd4uuYz16feGxpwB2WwLhc7eD_mgeOPidAX7zCoKAL9B9o&h=AT3Y93q_3NGKMQmfyvGwGSt5zy9UKkw8AjDMS0QehY8MVFZXIy1S0a-RrR9sibKy2JCiKCq0lD5fezTgamBHRHxI1W0nymFmVNlu287t-LdtHQ7Xwahn_vwrq68q&__tn__=q&c[0]=AT3nOUOzdcFcBIC1vSnvhz2dLVsi_-pPPe4gc4ghgLdTDyYzRxI5knKziJH8lddLkVtskc8MUwbzQ4gGXhuVClHzfoGPVLoemKS6D1zwz1eC6EY0NjET35swoBxGCuPrLKA>
for videos, a parking map, and more.
No partner or experience required. Dances start easy and get more
challenging as the evening progresses. Beginners should definitely come for
the lesson before the dance starts.
SCHEDULE:
6:30 Doors open
7:00 Beginner lesson (everyone can join)
7:30-10:30 Dance!
Admission is $15. Students are FREE!
Contra dance is great exercise and loads of fun besides, so bring a water
bottle and dress for cardio!
Click "Going" and we'll see you there!
Feedback welcome!
--jh--
On Tue, Mar 14, 2023 at 9:29 AM Sandy Seiler via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Could you specifically address my question of how to
get new dancers to
show up on time for the lesson? I think it would be ok to advertise the
event as starting at 7:00 with lesson (or basic moves instruction) in the
first half hour. I feel like when new people come at 7:00 and experienced
arrive at 7:30 that already sets the newbies up as "a tribe apart". We
need to get as many as possible there at 7:00 to integrate and socialize.
Thoughts?
On Tue, Mar 14, 2023 at 6:50 AM Mary Collins <nativedae(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Alexander- oops...while we are not specifically
gender free, we strive
for it in a very very conservative group of older dancers. I am scheduled
to meet with our web person soon and will adress verbage. Thanks for this
info.
On Mon, Mar 13, 2023, 4:34 PM Alexandra Deis-Lauby <adeislauby(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
> Mary,
>
> Is the Buffalo dance gender free? The website tells callers to use
> gents and ladies. If the dance is in fact gender free, then the website
> needs updating. If you are advertising the dance as gender free but use
> gents and ladies, that would certainly not encourage me to return if I were
> a new dancer.
>
>
>
> On Mar 13, 2023, at 3:54 PM, Mary Collins via Organizers <
> organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> Watching this as we have the same issue. We are (I believe) the 2nd
> largest city in NYS and have the most pitiful turnout.
>
> I think you have some good ideas here.
>
> One comment: we often or even always speak about our dance not only
> gender free, no partner necessary to bring, but also as no lessons needed,
> each dance being taught and "walked through". Then we advertise "the
> lesson" b4 the dance. If words matter (and I think we agree they do) the
> this is a huge contradiction.
>
> I say to people these sets of words & phrasing: easy, walking to music,
> Only 8 steps, no need to bring partner but a friend is fun, dances are
> taught, practiced (stole from country line dance & swing) and then they are
> prompted once the music starts. We offer basic move instruction rather than
> lesson.
>
> I don't really know if these changes help, hinder or have no effect. I
> only know that not having a friend anchor for the first few dances would
> have resulted in my not coming back. The lesson too. But that's just my
> perception.
>
> We give out "get in free" cards and encourage ppl to share theirs with a
> friend. I also encourage people who say "I told my friends...", to next
> dance offer to pick them up or meet b4 and come together.
>
> We also encourage experienced dancers to partner with new dancers.
>
> I am anxious to hear other's ideas.
>
> Mary "from Buffalo", not.
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 13, 2023, 12:49 PM Sandy Seiler via Organizers <
> organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> Newbies are not returning my thoughts...
>> Why? not feeling welcome?, feeling intimidated/too hard? Coming late
>> to lesson and being lost/confused during dance? Lack of feeling of
>> mastery/learning? Need follow up lesson since we only dance 1x/month? One
>> month is a long time to wait for another lesson. Not enough younger
>> dancers like themselves?
>> Ideas:
>> 1. Use beginner friendly buttons
>> 2. Ask experienced dancers to dance with beginners for first 2 dances
>> at least. Board members lead by example.
>> 3. Encourage experienced dancers to come for the beginner lesson to
>> welcome/socialize with new dancers.
>> 4. Have caller or one of us give out free passes (pass for next dance)
>> at the lesson so we don't have to remember to do it at the table. We gave
>> out 15 free passes to new dancers in Feb and did not get any to return in
>> March. (March dance was on 2nd sat instead of our normal 3rd sat and it's
>> spring break. Feb attendance 61, March 38 (paid dancers, not including 3
>> listeners). Also there was a local magazine article about LBDA in February
>> and we had our most experienced and popular contra dance band (Kaw Creek)
>> playing.
>> 5. Our Lesson is at 7:00, Dance 7:30. Should we use start time 7:00 in
>> advertising bc experienced dancers will figure it out and adjust to coming
>> at 7:30 more easily than new people knowing they need to come at 7:00 for
>> the lesson. New people attending and being on time for 7:00 lesson is
>> important for a smooth dance so do we need to advertise that way? Want
>> experienced dancers to be there to meet and socialize with them so they can
>> be better integrated into the community and not feel so awkward. I have
>> suggested this to our board before, but was told that would be manipulative
>> toward experienced dancers who would be upset that they came too early and
>> wasted their time. That feels like a very unwelcoming attitude, and I
>> would like to encourage all our dancers to consider that 7:00 is our start
>> time because beginners are important and we need to be there to greet them
>> and socialize.
>> 6. Schedule a 1 hour lesson or series of lessons led by experienced
>> callers Lisa and or Jill and a couple new callers... before the dance? On
>> a different day? Through Parks and Rec this summer?
>> 7. New dancers are far outnumbering experienced dancers. Need to do
>> advanced dance to pull back in some dancers who drifted away after the
>> pandemic. Contact individually by phone/email?
>>
>> And then getting younger people to attend is a whole other but strongly
>> related topic we need to address more effectively. We are not getting
>> enough young people at dances. It appears to me that when a young person
>> comes they often decide to not return because there aren't enough people in
>> their age group.
>>
>> Please tell me if you like/encourage these ideas I have come up with so
>> far and add others.
>> Especially I want to know how to get new people to come on time for the
>> lesson.
>> Is it ok to advertise dance for 7:00 even though first 30 minutes is
>> lesson? It's frustrating for our callers and then they don't get a full
>> lesson which is not good for anyone.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list --
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
3:16 p.m.
Chiming in from Chicago here to say that although we have a newcomer’s
orientation at 7 pm, nobody ever makes it until maybe 715-720 and so as a
caller who also leads that session when it’s my turn to call, I have it
boiled down to what I think is the most important 10-15 minutes of wisdom
and then I call a super easy dance to start that doesn’t use anything
beyond what I just taught (how to swing, geography and how to progress.)
Meg
6:44 p.m.
I'll toss out some perceptions of how some dances in my area (northeast
Georgia) are doing.
I can't absolutely say why some are growing and doing very well versus
others that are on life support.
(I apologize if I step on any toes, please chime in and correct me if
I'm off. Thanks.)
my dance, Gainesville, Georgia, monthly ... we were very slowly growing
to 90 - 120 dancers and then
covid knocked us out. I will be restarting (not as the formal
organization, just myself) in April.
I'm pulling back to a small (but loads of character) cabin in the middle
of my city
that maxes out at 60 or so dancers. I wouldn't be surprised if I'm
flooded with dancers or no one comes. TBD
Sautee, Georgia, monthly ... they've exploded with dancers, a few dances
back they had to
turn dancers away because of building restrictions (believe that was
around 240 dancers).
I went recently and they had 140 dancers for a local band.
Their overall feel is "family friendly" in that many families come
(doesn't mean loads of elementary school
age dancers but not unknown). That dance I went to had some 20 new
dancers that came from one local college alone (maybe another 20 new
dancers from other sources).
That's not unusual for Sauee. A very wide range of ages attend that dance.
(very old gym, loads of character, middle of nowhere)
Atlanta, Georgia, weekly ... they're stable, 80 to 95 dancers typical.
Several new dancers
every week, but overall number doesn't seem to tick up. At the same
time, there's not
a lot of anxiety ... stable is okay. Overall some new dancers stick and
some dancers move
away and some dancers age out.
River Falls Lodge, SC, weekly ... very strong turnout, lots (and lots)
of young dancers.
(high school, college, and up)
I've heard of so many dancers that it's uncomfortable recently.
This is a quirky, in the middle of nowhere, ancient of days dance hall.
I'm guessing 160 dancers would be tight but maybe doable fit.
prior younger gen at RFL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BC1THbxnGUQ
more recent pre-covid lower turnout:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0LVxHb5WvE
(imagine three times that number of dancers for current RFL dances)
Chattanooga, TN, not sure of frequency ... struggling.
Athens, GA, haven't restarted post covid but heard rumors that they may
restart soon.
Pre covid they had a pleasant 60 - 85 person dance in a small community
hall in
a park. Mostly local talent.
Charlotte, NC, monthly ... restarted last summer, I've heard they're
doing great
with a full hall of dancers (130? guessing!). My pre-covid sense of
Charlotte
was they had an unusual demographic with a peak of late 30 to early 40
dancers
along with a reasonable set of younger and older dancers. I'm not used
to seeing
a dance with that demographic. Their dance had slacked off some
pre-covid but
now is full of energy. I don't know their current demographic.
Asheville's Monday night dance is struggling to find it's footing
(recently restarted)
but Asheville's Thursday night dance, OFB, is doing well (just a few
data points!).
================
My *assumptions* are:
Dances with lots of energy to start with and a wide range of ages are
pulling in
new dancers and doing well, i.e. keeping a number of them.
Dances without a lot of social event competition, i.e. more rural areas,
can (!)
do well.
Here, in the SE, for good or ill, dances that require masks are having more
trouble coming back or getting new dancers than dances that don't
require masks.
I'm not making a value judgement in that. Just a note that is likely
region specific.
There's, regionally, tension over role terminology, but I don't have
a sense that that is having a strong effect on the number of dancers
attending
the above dances.
I realize I'm not directly addressing "getting new dancers to return".
But a *growing *dance *is* getting new dancers to return.
Wishing everyone (and every dance) well,
Heitzso
Gainesville, Georgia
7:02 p.m.
One incentive to arrive on time for a lesson/workshop (and drive
invitations) is to offer a nominal discount to experienced dancers who
bring a new dancer before 7:00 pm (or whatever the workshop time is).
This has the added benefit of incentivizing experienced dancers to join in
the workshop. Some may even learn things, but at a minimum they're a
friendly face and experienced partner for somebody.
Personal invites are the most effective, as long as the expectations are
set correctly. Not everyone will accept an invitation, and not everyone
will fine it their cup of tea. In aggregate, if 10-15% of new dancers
"stick," that's doing well.
Jerome
On Tue, Mar 14, 2023, 9:27 AM Sandy Seiler via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Could you specifically address my question of how to
get new dancers to
show up on time for the lesson? I think it would be ok to advertise the
event as starting at 7:00 with lesson (or basic moves instruction) in the
first half hour. I feel like when new people come at 7:00 and experienced
arrive at 7:30 that already sets the newbies up as "a tribe apart". We
need to get as many as possible there at 7:00 to integrate and socialize.
Thoughts?
On Tue, Mar 14, 2023 at 6:50 AM Mary Collins <nativedae(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Alexander- oops...while we are not specifically
gender free, we strive
for it in a very very conservative group of older dancers. I am scheduled
to meet with our web person soon and will adress verbage. Thanks for this
info.
On Mon, Mar 13, 2023, 4:34 PM Alexandra Deis-Lauby <adeislauby(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
> Mary,
>
> Is the Buffalo dance gender free? The website tells callers to use
> gents and ladies. If the dance is in fact gender free, then the website
> needs updating. If you are advertising the dance as gender free but use
> gents and ladies, that would certainly not encourage me to return if I were
> a new dancer.
>
>
>
> On Mar 13, 2023, at 3:54 PM, Mary Collins via Organizers <
> organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> Watching this as we have the same issue. We are (I believe) the 2nd
> largest city in NYS and have the most pitiful turnout.
>
> I think you have some good ideas here.
>
> One comment: we often or even always speak about our dance not only
> gender free, no partner necessary to bring, but also as no lessons needed,
> each dance being taught and "walked through". Then we advertise "the
> lesson" b4 the dance. If words matter (and I think we agree they do) the
> this is a huge contradiction.
>
> I say to people these sets of words & phrasing: easy, walking to music,
> Only 8 steps, no need to bring partner but a friend is fun, dances are
> taught, practiced (stole from country line dance & swing) and then they are
> prompted once the music starts. We offer basic move instruction rather than
> lesson.
>
> I don't really know if these changes help, hinder or have no effect. I
> only know that not having a friend anchor for the first few dances would
> have resulted in my not coming back. The lesson too. But that's just my
> perception.
>
> We give out "get in free" cards and encourage ppl to share theirs with a
> friend. I also encourage people who say "I told my friends...", to next
> dance offer to pick them up or meet b4 and come together.
>
> We also encourage experienced dancers to partner with new dancers.
>
> I am anxious to hear other's ideas.
>
> Mary "from Buffalo", not.
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 13, 2023, 12:49 PM Sandy Seiler via Organizers <
> organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> Newbies are not returning my thoughts...
>> Why? not feeling welcome?, feeling intimidated/too hard? Coming late
>> to lesson and being lost/confused during dance? Lack of feeling of
>> mastery/learning? Need follow up lesson since we only dance 1x/month? One
>> month is a long time to wait for another lesson. Not enough younger
>> dancers like themselves?
>> Ideas:
>> 1. Use beginner friendly buttons
>> 2. Ask experienced dancers to dance with beginners for first 2 dances
>> at least. Board members lead by example.
>> 3. Encourage experienced dancers to come for the beginner lesson to
>> welcome/socialize with new dancers.
>> 4. Have caller or one of us give out free passes (pass for next dance)
>> at the lesson so we don't have to remember to do it at the table. We gave
>> out 15 free passes to new dancers in Feb and did not get any to return in
>> March. (March dance was on 2nd sat instead of our normal 3rd sat and it's
>> spring break. Feb attendance 61, March 38 (paid dancers, not including 3
>> listeners). Also there was a local magazine article about LBDA in February
>> and we had our most experienced and popular contra dance band (Kaw Creek)
>> playing.
>> 5. Our Lesson is at 7:00, Dance 7:30. Should we use start time 7:00 in
>> advertising bc experienced dancers will figure it out and adjust to coming
>> at 7:30 more easily than new people knowing they need to come at 7:00 for
>> the lesson. New people attending and being on time for 7:00 lesson is
>> important for a smooth dance so do we need to advertise that way? Want
>> experienced dancers to be there to meet and socialize with them so they can
>> be better integrated into the community and not feel so awkward. I have
>> suggested this to our board before, but was told that would be manipulative
>> toward experienced dancers who would be upset that they came too early and
>> wasted their time. That feels like a very unwelcoming attitude, and I
>> would like to encourage all our dancers to consider that 7:00 is our start
>> time because beginners are important and we need to be there to greet them
>> and socialize.
>> 6. Schedule a 1 hour lesson or series of lessons led by experienced
>> callers Lisa and or Jill and a couple new callers... before the dance? On
>> a different day? Through Parks and Rec this summer?
>> 7. New dancers are far outnumbering experienced dancers. Need to do
>> advanced dance to pull back in some dancers who drifted away after the
>> pandemic. Contact individually by phone/email?
>>
>> And then getting younger people to attend is a whole other but strongly
>> related topic we need to address more effectively. We are not getting
>> enough young people at dances. It appears to me that when a young person
>> comes they often decide to not return because there aren't enough people in
>> their age group.
>>
>> Please tell me if you like/encourage these ideas I have come up with so
>> far and add others.
>> Especially I want to know how to get new people to come on time for the
>> lesson.
>> Is it ok to advertise dance for 7:00 even though first 30 minutes is
>> lesson? It's frustrating for our callers and then they don't get a full
>> lesson which is not good for anyone.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list --
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
3:29 p.m.
Hi Mary,
I'm still confused -- what does striving for gender free dancing without
being gender free mean? Is it that you use "gents" and "ladies"
but emphasize that anyone can dance any role?
Jeff
On Tue, Mar 14, 2023 at 7:51 AM Mary Collins via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Alexander- oops...while we are not specifically gender
free, we strive for
it in a very very conservative group of older dancers. I am scheduled to
meet with our web person soon and will adress verbage. Thanks for this info.
On Mon, Mar 13, 2023, 4:34 PM Alexandra Deis-Lauby <adeislauby(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Mary,
Is the Buffalo dance gender free? The website tells callers to use gents
and ladies. If the dance is in fact gender free, then the website needs
updating. If you are advertising the dance as gender free but use gents
and ladies, that would certainly not encourage me to return if I were a new
dancer.
On Mar 13, 2023, at 3:54 PM, Mary Collins via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Watching this as we have the same issue. We are (I believe) the 2nd
largest city in NYS and have the most pitiful turnout.
I think you have some good ideas here.
One comment: we often or even always speak about our dance not only
gender free, no partner necessary to bring, but also as no lessons needed,
each dance being taught and "walked through". Then we advertise "the
lesson" b4 the dance. If words matter (and I think we agree they do) the
this is a huge contradiction.
I say to people these sets of words & phrasing: easy, walking to music,
Only 8 steps, no need to bring partner but a friend is fun, dances are
taught, practiced (stole from country line dance & swing) and then they are
prompted once the music starts. We offer basic move instruction rather than
lesson.
I don't really know if these changes help, hinder or have no effect. I
only know that not having a friend anchor for the first few dances would
have resulted in my not coming back. The lesson too. But that's just my
perception.
We give out "get in free" cards and encourage ppl to share theirs with a
friend. I also encourage people who say "I told my friends...", to next
dance offer to pick them up or meet b4 and come together.
We also encourage experienced dancers to partner with new dancers.
I am anxious to hear other's ideas.
Mary "from Buffalo", not.
On Mon, Mar 13, 2023, 12:49 PM Sandy Seiler via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Organizers mailing list --
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
Newbies are not returning my thoughts...
Why? not feeling welcome?, feeling intimidated/too hard? Coming late to
lesson and being lost/confused during dance? Lack of feeling of
mastery/learning? Need follow up lesson since we only dance 1x/month? One
month is a long time to wait for another lesson. Not enough younger
dancers like themselves?
Ideas:
1. Use beginner friendly buttons
2. Ask experienced dancers to dance with beginners for first 2 dances at
least. Board members lead by example.
3. Encourage experienced dancers to come for the beginner lesson to
welcome/socialize with new dancers.
4. Have caller or one of us give out free passes (pass for next dance)
at the lesson so we don't have to remember to do it at the table. We gave
out 15 free passes to new dancers in Feb and did not get any to return in
March. (March dance was on 2nd sat instead of our normal 3rd sat and it's
spring break. Feb attendance 61, March 38 (paid dancers, not including 3
listeners). Also there was a local magazine article about LBDA in February
and we had our most experienced and popular contra dance band (Kaw Creek)
playing.
5. Our Lesson is at 7:00, Dance 7:30. Should we use start time 7:00 in
advertising bc experienced dancers will figure it out and adjust to coming
at 7:30 more easily than new people knowing they need to come at 7:00 for
the lesson. New people attending and being on time for 7:00 lesson is
important for a smooth dance so do we need to advertise that way? Want
experienced dancers to be there to meet and socialize with them so they can
be better integrated into the community and not feel so awkward. I have
suggested this to our board before, but was told that would be manipulative
toward experienced dancers who would be upset that they came too early and
wasted their time. That feels like a very unwelcoming attitude, and I
would like to encourage all our dancers to consider that 7:00 is our start
time because beginners are important and we need to be there to greet them
and socialize.
6. Schedule a 1 hour lesson or series of lessons led by experienced
callers Lisa and or Jill and a couple new callers... before the dance? On
a different day? Through Parks and Rec this summer?
7. New dancers are far outnumbering experienced dancers. Need to do
advanced dance to pull back in some dancers who drifted away after the
pandemic. Contact individually by phone/email?
And then getting younger people to attend is a whole other but strongly
related topic we need to address more effectively. We are not getting
enough young people at dances. It appears to me that when a young person
comes they often decide to not return because there aren't enough people in
their age group.
Please tell me if you like/encourage these ideas I have come up with so
far and add others.
Especially I want to know how to get new people to come on time for the
lesson.
Is it ok to advertise dance for 7:00 even though first 30 minutes is
lesson? It's frustrating for our callers and then they don't get a full
lesson which is not good for anyone.
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
_______________________________________________
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_______________________________________________
15 Mar
15 Mar
2:45 a.m.
what does striving for gender free dancing without
being gender free mean?
A number of dances nearby are in this category, so I'll answer. The
organizers, or some of them, and/or callers would like the dance to be
gender-free, and maybe some of the dancers would, as well. The organizers
are concerned that at least a significant number of dancers will not like
it, and they may have some justifications for those concerns (e.g., many
dancers told them). They're nibbling at the edges, talking up the idea,
maybe having occasional gender-free dances, thinking of starting a
gender-free series as an alternative to the regular one or alternating
gendered and gender-free dances or leaving it to the caller to decide (one
caller called this throwing the caller under the bus!). They're not quite
ready to eliminate all gendered dances and declare it on their website, but
they're moving in that direction.
...Perhaps slowly. At least one group down here (Florida) tried
gender-free and went back to gendered. Orlando is still the only
gender-free in the state, as far as I know. Give them time...
--jh--
On Tue, Mar 14, 2023 at 11:35 AM Jeff Kaufman via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Hi Mary,
I'm still confused -- what does striving for gender free dancing without
being gender free mean? Is it that you use "gents" and "ladies"
but emphasize that anyone can dance any role?
Jeff
On Tue, Mar 14, 2023 at 7:51 AM Mary Collins via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Alexander- oops...while we are not specifically
gender free, we strive
for it in a very very conservative group of older dancers. I am scheduled
to meet with our web person soon and will adress verbage. Thanks for this
info.
On Mon, Mar 13, 2023, 4:34 PM Alexandra Deis-Lauby <adeislauby(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
Mary,
Is the Buffalo dance gender free? The website tells callers to use
gents and ladies. If the dance is in fact gender free, then the website
needs updating. If you are advertising the dance as gender free but use
gents and ladies, that would certainly not encourage me to return if I were
a new dancer.
On Mar 13, 2023, at 3:54 PM, Mary Collins via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Watching this as we have the same issue. We are (I believe) the 2nd
largest city in NYS and have the most pitiful turnout.
I think you have some good ideas here.
One comment: we often or even always speak about our dance not only
gender free, no partner necessary to bring, but also as no lessons needed,
each dance being taught and "walked through". Then we advertise "the
lesson" b4 the dance. If words matter (and I think we agree they do) the
this is a huge contradiction.
I say to people these sets of words & phrasing: easy, walking to music,
Only 8 steps, no need to bring partner but a friend is fun, dances are
taught, practiced (stole from country line dance & swing) and then they are
prompted once the music starts. We offer basic move instruction rather than
lesson.
I don't really know if these changes help, hinder or have no effect. I
only know that not having a friend anchor for the first few dances would
have resulted in my not coming back. The lesson too. But that's just my
perception.
We give out "get in free" cards and encourage ppl to share theirs with a
friend. I also encourage people who say "I told my friends...", to next
dance offer to pick them up or meet b4 and come together.
We also encourage experienced dancers to partner with new dancers.
I am anxious to hear other's ideas.
Mary "from Buffalo", not.
On Mon, Mar 13, 2023, 12:49 PM Sandy Seiler via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Organizers mailing list --
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
Newbies are not returning my thoughts...
Why? not feeling welcome?, feeling intimidated/too hard? Coming late
to lesson and being lost/confused during dance? Lack of feeling of
mastery/learning? Need follow up lesson since we only dance 1x/month? One
month is a long time to wait for another lesson. Not enough younger
dancers like themselves?
Ideas:
1. Use beginner friendly buttons
2. Ask experienced dancers to dance with beginners for first 2 dances
at least. Board members lead by example.
3. Encourage experienced dancers to come for the beginner lesson to
welcome/socialize with new dancers.
4. Have caller or one of us give out free passes (pass for next dance)
at the lesson so we don't have to remember to do it at the table. We gave
out 15 free passes to new dancers in Feb and did not get any to return in
March. (March dance was on 2nd sat instead of our normal 3rd sat and it's
spring break. Feb attendance 61, March 38 (paid dancers, not including 3
listeners). Also there was a local magazine article about LBDA in February
and we had our most experienced and popular contra dance band (Kaw Creek)
playing.
5. Our Lesson is at 7:00, Dance 7:30. Should we use start time 7:00 in
advertising bc experienced dancers will figure it out and adjust to coming
at 7:30 more easily than new people knowing they need to come at 7:00 for
the lesson. New people attending and being on time for 7:00 lesson is
important for a smooth dance so do we need to advertise that way? Want
experienced dancers to be there to meet and socialize with them so they can
be better integrated into the community and not feel so awkward. I have
suggested this to our board before, but was told that would be manipulative
toward experienced dancers who would be upset that they came too early and
wasted their time. That feels like a very unwelcoming attitude, and I
would like to encourage all our dancers to consider that 7:00 is our start
time because beginners are important and we need to be there to greet them
and socialize.
6. Schedule a 1 hour lesson or series of lessons led by experienced
callers Lisa and or Jill and a couple new callers... before the dance? On
a different day? Through Parks and Rec this summer?
7. New dancers are far outnumbering experienced dancers. Need to do
advanced dance to pull back in some dancers who drifted away after the
pandemic. Contact individually by phone/email?
And then getting younger people to attend is a whole other but strongly
related topic we need to address more effectively. We are not getting
enough young people at dances. It appears to me that when a young person
comes they often decide to not return because there aren't enough people in
their age group.
Please tell me if you like/encourage these ideas I have come up with so
far and add others.
Especially I want to know how to get new people to come on time for the
lesson.
Is it ok to advertise dance for 7:00 even though first 30 minutes is
lesson? It's frustrating for our callers and then they don't get a full
lesson which is not good for anyone.
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
_______________________________________________
3:20 a.m.
That's exactly where we are in Lawrence, KS. We are leaving it up to
callers to choose. Some of us would like to do gender free or at least know
it's here so we might as well embrace it. I wish we had better terms
instead of Larks and Robins. Those words just don't lend themselves to an
easy transition from Ladies and Gents. They aren't even typically said in
the same sequence. Technically it should be Robins and Larks. I suggested
to one caller to just use both esp if dancers seem confused. That seemed
to work well and communicates that we appreciate both viewpoints. There
are several people in our community who do not want to change from the
traditional terms. Some argue that the words don't matter and we have
always embraced men in skirts for instance. I can see their point and I
don't want to change if it means we alienate a whole other group. So for
right now we are not pushing it and figure things will eventually change
with time. There are so many things changing in the world and I think it's
better for us to not be insistent about this. Besides, I'm hoping someone
will come up with better terms.
On Tue, Mar 14, 2023 at 9:46 PM Joe Harrington <contradancerjoe(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
what does
striving for gender free dancing without being gender free
mean?
A number of dances nearby are in this category, so I'll answer. The
organizers, or some of them, and/or callers would like the dance to be
gender-free, and maybe some of the dancers would, as well. The organizers
are concerned that at least a significant number of dancers will not like
it, and they may have some justifications for those concerns (e.g., many
dancers told them). They're nibbling at the edges, talking up the idea,
maybe having occasional gender-free dances, thinking of starting a
gender-free series as an alternative to the regular one or alternating
gendered and gender-free dances or leaving it to the caller to decide (one
caller called this throwing the caller under the bus!). They're not quite
ready to eliminate all gendered dances and declare it on their website, but
they're moving in that direction.
...Perhaps slowly. At least one group down here (Florida) tried
gender-free and went back to gendered. Orlando is still the only
gender-free in the state, as far as I know. Give them time...
--jh--
On Tue, Mar 14, 2023 at 11:35 AM Jeff Kaufman via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Hi Mary,
I'm still confused -- what does striving for gender free dancing without
being gender free mean? Is it that you use "gents" and "ladies"
but emphasize that anyone can dance any role?
Jeff
On Tue, Mar 14, 2023 at 7:51 AM Mary Collins via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Alexander- oops...while we are not specifically
gender free, we strive
for it in a very very conservative group of older dancers. I am scheduled
to meet with our web person soon and will adress verbage. Thanks for this
info.
On Mon, Mar 13, 2023, 4:34 PM Alexandra Deis-Lauby <adeislauby(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
Mary,
Is the Buffalo dance gender free? The website tells callers to use
gents and ladies. If the dance is in fact gender free, then the website
needs updating. If you are advertising the dance as gender free but use
gents and ladies, that would certainly not encourage me to return if I were
a new dancer.
On Mar 13, 2023, at 3:54 PM, Mary Collins via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Watching this as we have the same issue. We are (I believe) the 2nd
largest city in NYS and have the most pitiful turnout.
I think you have some good ideas here.
One comment: we often or even always speak about our dance not only
gender free, no partner necessary to bring, but also as no lessons needed,
each dance being taught and "walked through". Then we advertise "the
lesson" b4 the dance. If words matter (and I think we agree they do) the
this is a huge contradiction.
I say to people these sets of words & phrasing: easy, walking to music,
Only 8 steps, no need to bring partner but a friend is fun, dances are
taught, practiced (stole from country line dance & swing) and then they are
prompted once the music starts. We offer basic move instruction rather than
lesson.
I don't really know if these changes help, hinder or have no effect. I
only know that not having a friend anchor for the first few dances would
have resulted in my not coming back. The lesson too. But that's just my
perception.
We give out "get in free" cards and encourage ppl to share theirs with
a friend. I also encourage people who say "I told my friends...", to next
dance offer to pick them up or meet b4 and come together.
We also encourage experienced dancers to partner with new dancers.
I am anxious to hear other's ideas.
Mary "from Buffalo", not.
On Mon, Mar 13, 2023, 12:49 PM Sandy Seiler via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> Newbies are not returning my thoughts...
> Why? not feeling welcome?, feeling intimidated/too hard? Coming late
> to lesson and being lost/confused during dance? Lack of feeling of
> mastery/learning? Need follow up lesson since we only dance 1x/month? One
> month is a long time to wait for another lesson. Not enough younger
> dancers like themselves?
> Ideas:
> 1. Use beginner friendly buttons
> 2. Ask experienced dancers to dance with beginners for first 2 dances
> at least. Board members lead by example.
> 3. Encourage experienced dancers to come for the beginner lesson to
> welcome/socialize with new dancers.
> 4. Have caller or one of us give out free passes (pass for next dance)
> at the lesson so we don't have to remember to do it at the table. We gave
> out 15 free passes to new dancers in Feb and did not get any to return in
> March. (March dance was on 2nd sat instead of our normal 3rd sat and it's
> spring break. Feb attendance 61, March 38 (paid dancers, not including 3
> listeners). Also there was a local magazine article about LBDA in February
> and we had our most experienced and popular contra dance band (Kaw Creek)
> playing.
> 5. Our Lesson is at 7:00, Dance 7:30. Should we use start time 7:00
> in advertising bc experienced dancers will figure it out and adjust to
> coming at 7:30 more easily than new people knowing they need to come at
> 7:00 for the lesson. New people attending and being on time for 7:00
> lesson is important for a smooth dance so do we need to advertise that
> way? Want experienced dancers to be there to meet and socialize with them
> so they can be better integrated into the community and not feel so
> awkward. I have suggested this to our board before, but was told that
> would be manipulative toward experienced dancers who would be upset that
> they came too early and wasted their time. That feels like a very
> unwelcoming attitude, and I would like to encourage all our dancers to
> consider that 7:00 is our start time because beginners are important and we
> need to be there to greet them and socialize.
> 6. Schedule a 1 hour lesson or series of lessons led by experienced
> callers Lisa and or Jill and a couple new callers... before the dance? On
> a different day? Through Parks and Rec this summer?
> 7. New dancers are far outnumbering experienced dancers. Need to do
> advanced dance to pull back in some dancers who drifted away after the
> pandemic. Contact individually by phone/email?
>
> And then getting younger people to attend is a whole other but
> strongly related topic we need to address more effectively. We are not
> getting enough young people at dances. It appears to me that when a young
> person comes they often decide to not return because there aren't enough
> people in their age group.
>
> Please tell me if you like/encourage these ideas I have come up with
> so far and add others.
> Especially I want to know how to get new people to come on time for
> the lesson.
> Is it ok to advertise dance for 7:00 even though first 30 minutes is
> lesson? It's frustrating for our callers and then they don't get a full
> lesson which is not good for anyone.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> To unsubscribe send an email to
> organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
_______________________________________________
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organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
4:20 a.m.
I found it surprisingly non-eventful to attend a dance with gender-free
terms. To all the nibbling on the edge groups: try it and see what it's
actually like! The best way I can explain it is it's like when someone
changes their nickname, and you know the name they used to go by. It's not
mentally challenging at all; you keep thinking the wrong thing, but you
think of the right thing quickly, and everything kinda just keeps going. It
doesn't even feel completely "non-gendered" to me, for what it's worth,
because the normal contra terms already feel kinda antiquated and arbitrary
to me. Using different arbitrary names is just a different sound to get
used to.
That's for the dancers. For callers, I'm sure it is very weird to use
different terms. Callers have to say the new terms, while dancers just have
to recognize them.
Atlanta also gets a lot of first-time dancers that do not return. I wish I
had my fingers on the numbers, because I know people used to collect
them, especially pre-covid. I'd guess around 10% to 25% of dancers are
first-timers, just as a wild guess. Most of them don't come back a second
time.
The mentally demanding aspect is real for new dancers. When I've brought
people and asked them how it went, they describe a real firehose of
commands and information coming in, and people grabbing at you from every
direction. If you look at their faces in the line, they're often really
tense and jumpy as they try to hyper-react to a situation that for them is
going at break-neck speed. I remember feeling like this at a few first
dances. It gets hard to remember this experience over time, because to an
experienced dancer a lot of things just click and do not need to be
processed any more. It's hard to remember that that's not true for new
people. You look at their faces and they look like normal people, i.e.
contra dancers. But inside, they're divergent from you, and some of your
words are gobbledygook to them.
In general, dance events have a lot of competition in most locales.
Non-gendered is usually the expectation nowadays, in my modest travels, so
it will cut out a lot of potential visitors to have an overly gendered
event. Bear in mind it's not just terminology that makes an event awkward
for gender diversity. Contra dance has an extra challenge for gender
diversity due to the format of the dance. Unlike at a couples dance, a
contra dance has you encountering each person in the line. So if you role
swap for a dance, you have to not just find a compatible partner, but
you're going to surprise everyone in your line. It can be emotionally
draining to do that. I wonder if there are contra dance sequences that make
a role-swapped dancer stand out less, e.g. no swings with neighbors, and
equal encounters with larks and robins in the other couple. "Coming up
next, everyone, it's a twister!" I wonder if those sequences are still fun
for people who WANT a cis-het binary dance, and that's what they came for.
For organizers.... no, I am not sure either how much to push it. Getting
back to the subject of repeat visitors, perhaps the biggest difference of
all is a caller who brings the fun and the inclusiveness, the type who can
laugh with you when something goes goofy. Micro-managing a caller's
terminology will not go well.
Good luck on the quest. However it goes, I'm tremendously grateful to
everyone organizing contra dances, and to all the people trying to make
their dance a little bit better each week.
Lex Spoon
10:34 a.m.
Several years ago, Louise Siddons called at a London club opposed to
gender-neutral calling. Louise doesn't use 'Larks' or convoluted
references to walls and windows. She calls positionally. No one had
noticed the absence of gendered terms by the time the break arrived.
For new dancers, positional calls are also much easier than struggling
to remember e.g. which is the first corner.
Judith De Witt
------ Original Message ------
From: "Joe Harrington via Organizers"
<organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
To: "Jeff Kaufman" <jeff(a)alum.swarthmore.edu>
Cc: "Sandy Seiler" <sandyjaneseiler(a)gmail.com>om>; "Marie-Michèle
Fournier
via Organizers" <organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
Sent: Wednesday, 15 Mar, 2023 At 02:45
Subject: [Organizers] Re: Need ideas/feedback about how to get new
dancers to return
what does striving for gender free dancing without
being gender free
mean?
A number of dances nearby are in this category, so I'll answer. The
organizers, or some of them, and/or callers would like the dance to be
gender-free, and maybe some of the dancers would, as well. The
organizers are concerned that at least a significant number of dancers
will not like it, and they may have some justifications for those
concerns (e.g., many dancers told them). They're nibbling at the edges,
talking up the idea, maybe having occasional gender-free dances,
thinking of starting a gender-free series as an alternative to the
regular one or alternating gendered and gender-free dances or leaving it
to the caller to decide (one caller called this throwing the caller
under the bus!). They're not quite ready to eliminate all gendered
dances and declare it on their website, but they're moving in that
direction.
...Perhaps slowly. At least one group down here (Florida) tried
gender-free and went back to gendered. Orlando is still the only
gender-free in the state, as far as I know. Give them time...
--jh--
On Tue, Mar 14, 2023 at 11:35 AM Jeff Kaufman via Organizers
<organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net> > wrote:
Hi Mary,
I'm still confused -- what does striving for gender free dancing without
being gender free mean? Is it that you use "gents" and "ladies" but
emphasize that anyone can dance any role?
Jeff
On Tue, Mar 14, 2023 at 7:51 AM Mary Collins via Organizers
<organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net> > wrote:
Alexander- oops...while we are not specifically gender free, we strive
for it in a very very conservative group of older dancers. I am
scheduled to meet with our web person soon and will adress verbage.
Thanks for this info.
On Mon, Mar 13, 2023, 4:34 PM Alexandra Deis-Lauby <adeislauby(a)gmail.com
<mailto:adeislauby@gmail.com> > wrote:
Mary,
Is the Buffalo dance gender free? The website tells callers to use
gents and ladies. If the dance is in fact gender free, then the website
needs updating. If you are advertising the dance as gender free but use
gents and ladies, that would certainly not encourage me to return if I
were a new dancer.
On Mar 13, 2023, at 3:54 PM, Mary Collins via Organizers
<organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net> > wrote:
Watching this as we have the same issue. We are (I believe) the 2nd
largest city in NYS and have the most pitiful turnout.
I think you have some good ideas here.
One comment: we often or even always speak about our dance not only
gender free, no partner necessary to bring, but also as no lessons
needed, each dance being taught and "walked through". Then we advertise
"the lesson" b4 the dance. If words matter (and I think we agree they
do) the this is a huge contradiction.
I say to people these sets of words & phrasing: easy, walking to music,
Only 8 steps, no need to bring partner but a friend is fun, dances are
taught, practiced (stole from country line dance & swing) and then they
are prompted once the music starts. We offer basic move instruction
rather than lesson.
I don't really know if these changes help, hinder or have no effect. I
only know that not having a friend anchor for the first few dances would
have resulted in my not coming back. The lesson too. But that's just my
perception.
We give out "get in free" cards and encourage ppl to share theirs with a
friend. I also encourage people who say "I told my friends...", to next
dance offer to pick them up or meet b4 and come together.
We also encourage experienced dancers to partner with new dancers.
I am anxious to hear other's ideas.
Mary "from Buffalo", not.
On Mon, Mar 13, 2023, 12:49 PM Sandy Seiler via Organizers
<organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net> > wrote:
Newbies are not returning my thoughts...
Why? not feeling welcome?, feeling intimidated/too hard? Coming late
to lesson and being lost/confused during dance? Lack of feeling of
mastery/learning? Need follow up lesson since we only dance 1x/month?
One month is a long time to wait for another lesson. Not enough
younger dancers like themselves?
Ideas:
1. Use beginner friendly buttons
2. Ask experienced dancers to dance with beginners for first 2 dances at
least. Board members lead by example.
3. Encourage experienced dancers to come for the beginner lesson to
welcome/socialize with new dancers.
4. Have caller or one of us give out free passes (pass for next dance)
at the lesson so we don't have to remember to do it at the table. We
gave out 15 free passes to new dancers in Feb and did not get any to
return in March. (March dance was on 2nd sat instead of our normal 3rd
sat and it's spring break. Feb attendance 61, March 38 (paid dancers,
not including 3 listeners). Also there was a local magazine article
about LBDA in February and we had our most experienced and popular
contra dance band (Kaw Creek) playing.
5. Our Lesson is at 7:00, Dance 7:30. Should we use start time 7:00 in
advertising bc experienced dancers will figure it out and adjust to
coming at 7:30 more easily than new people knowing they need to come at
7:00 for the lesson. New people attending and being on time for 7:00
lesson is important for a smooth dance so do we need to advertise that
way? Want experienced dancers to be there to meet and socialize with
them so they can be better integrated into the community and not feel so
awkward. I have suggested this to our board before, but was told that
would be manipulative toward experienced dancers who would be upset that
they came too early and wasted their time. That feels like a very
unwelcoming attitude, and I would like to encourage all our dancers to
consider that 7:00 is our start time because beginners are important and
we need to be there to greet them and socialize.
6. Schedule a 1 hour lesson or series of lessons led by experienced
callers Lisa and or Jill and a couple new callers... before the dance?
On a different day? Through Parks and Rec this summer?
7. New dancers are far outnumbering experienced dancers. Need to do
advanced dance to pull back in some dancers who drifted away after the
pandemic. Contact individually by phone/email?
And then getting younger people to attend is a whole other but strongly
related topic we need to address more effectively. We are not getting
enough young people at dances. It appears to me that when a young
person comes they often decide to not return because there aren't enough
people in their age group.
Please tell me if you like/encourage these ideas I have come up with so
far and add others.
Especially I want to know how to get new people to come on time for the
lesson.
Is it ok to advertise dance for 7:00 even though first 30 minutes is
lesson? It's frustrating for our callers and then they don't get a
full lesson which is not good for anyone.
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12:02 p.m.
“Getting back to the subject of repeat visitors, perhaps the biggest difference of all is
a caller who brings the fun and the inclusiveness, the type who can laugh with you when
something goes goofy. (… . ) I'm tremendously grateful to everyone organizing contra
dances, and to all the people trying to make their dance a little bit better each week.
Lex Spoon”
Hear, hear!
(And I think it’s also the organizers who can bring that fun and inclusiveness and set the
tone for embracing the goofiness.) Let’s face it, even though some folks forget and take
it all a bit too seriously, these dances we love are incredibly weird. Beautifully so, but
definitely on the silly side of joy.
I’m also grateful for all you folks sharing ideas and experiences openly and
nonjudgmentally. What a gift!
Chrissy Fowler
Belfast Maine
Where we are digging out from the latest nor’easter (ah the joys of finally getting winter
weather in March)
12:49 p.m.
Lots of good suggestions from a lot of people.
I think I can boil down success keeping new dancers to:
1. Listen to youth, put then on your committee, and implement their
suggestions.
2. Have a written values statement, which all of your other policies follow.
3. Make it clear you want to hear from dancers with compliments or
complaints. And actually deal with complaints. Over and over, the biggest
reason I hear people not returning (other than just not liking the dance
form) is unhandled and ignored complaints.
In dance,
Julian Blechner
On Wed, Mar 15, 2023, 8:10 AM Chrissy Fowler via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
*“Getting back to the subject of repeat visitors,
perhaps the biggest
difference of all is a caller who brings the fun and the inclusiveness, the
type who can laugh with you when something goes goofy. (… . ) I'm
tremendously grateful to everyone organizing contra dances, and to all the
people trying to make their dance a little bit better each week.*
*Lex Spoon”*
Hear, hear!
(And I think it’s also the organizers who can bring that fun and
inclusiveness and set the tone for embracing the goofiness.) Let’s face it,
even though some folks forget and take it all a bit too seriously, these
dances we love are *incredibly* weird. Beautifully so, but definitely on
the silly side of joy.
I’m also grateful for all you folks sharing ideas and experiences openly
and nonjudgmentally. What a gift!
Chrissy Fowler
Belfast Maine
*Where we are digging out from the latest nor’easter (ah the joys of
finally getting winter weather in March)*
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
3:12 p.m.
On "Listen to youth, put them on your committee, and implement their
suggestions", this is pretty tricky and is something I've seen several
organizations get wrong.
Let's say you're an established organization with a lot of
institutional knowledge and a built-up system of how things are done, and
you add an enthusiastic young dancer, musician, or caller to your board.
They probably don't know much about how the organization works, and they're
initially not going to know much about what needs doing. When they have
ideas about how to do things differently they often won't understand the
practical issues that led to things being the way they are. So you can
easily get one of two dynamics:
a. They're initially excited and propose things, but then get frustrated
as the long-time folks explain the issues and none of their proposals stick.
b. They stay quiet because they understand how much they don't know, and
don't end up contributing much.
Then, when their initial term is up they don't stay on because they don't
feel like they've accomplished anything and don't feel useful.
I've been the excited young person in this case, and can think of several
other friends who have as well. In retrospect I think most of us wish we
had said no to the invitation.
I don't think the solution is as simple as "implement their suggestions",
though: not every suggestion will be a good one (none of us, young or old,
have only good ideas).
What I've seen work well is giving people responsibility, especially in
areas where they can quickly learn what makes the dance work. For example,
if your dance has a person who does/oversees setup and/or cleanup, teach
them how to do this. Get them filling out the end-of-dance financial
sheets to figure out who gets what money. If you're putting on a new
one-off event get them on a small committee with 1-2 other friendly
organizers. Then when they propose changes they'll be better ones (less
likely to propose something infeasible) and the changes are more likely to
be well received (in a do-ocracy people respect the people they see putting
in work).
There's also a completely different path, where the enthusiastic young
person gets together a group of people and starts something independent.
They can make their own mistakes, without making more work for people on
the committee. If they want to make their new dance gender-free, half
squares, all open bands + open calling, or something else that might get a
lot of pushback at an existing dance, they can just go ahead and do it.
When these work well they draw a new crowd, pulling from their own networks
instead of mostly drawing people away from the existing dance, and you get
a healthier community with more options.
Jeff
On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 8:49 AM Julian Blechner via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Lots of good suggestions from a lot of people.
I think I can boil down success keeping new dancers to:
1. Listen to youth, put then on your committee, and implement their
suggestions.
2. Have a written values statement, which all of your other policies
follow.
3. Make it clear you want to hear from dancers with compliments or
complaints. And actually deal with complaints. Over and over, the biggest
reason I hear people not returning (other than just not liking the dance
form) is unhandled and ignored complaints.
In dance,
Julian Blechner
On Wed, Mar 15, 2023, 8:10 AM Chrissy Fowler via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
*“Getting back to the subject of repeat visitors,
perhaps the biggest
difference of all is a caller who brings the fun and the inclusiveness, the
type who can laugh with you when something goes goofy. (… . ) I'm
tremendously grateful to everyone organizing contra dances, and to all the
people trying to make their dance a little bit better each week.*
*Lex Spoon”*
Hear, hear!
(And I think it’s also the organizers who can bring that fun and
inclusiveness and set the tone for embracing the goofiness.) Let’s face it,
even though some folks forget and take it all a bit too seriously, these
dances we love are *incredibly* weird. Beautifully so, but definitely on
the silly side of joy.
I’m also grateful for all you folks sharing ideas and experiences openly
and nonjudgmentally. What a gift!
Chrissy Fowler
Belfast Maine
*Where we are digging out from the latest nor’easter (ah the joys of
finally getting winter weather in March)*
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
16 Mar
16 Mar
1:32 p.m.
Jeff,
I'm glad you're able to dig us into some of the particulars of the subtopic
about youth leadership in contra.
Certainly I agree that it is not as simple as I stated; my email was meant
as brief, high-level bullets, not sufficient instructions for implementing.
I think your questions are good jumping-off points, so I'll do that!
If I had to wager, I would say that your experience with youth dancers in
leadership may differ from ones that I've seen and experienced.
Like, the "I" in BIDA is "Intergenerational" with engaging dancers of
all
ages right there as a primary goal; that alone is going to affect how you
and other BIDA leaders current and past engage with potential youth leaders.
And what I've seen in BIDA's policies, what you personally and advocate
for, and what I've experienced both as a dancer and a performer at your
series contrasts with some of the negative issues I've seen come up.
So, by contrast, I draw upon experience both in dances I've been a regular
at, as well as discussions with peers and younger peers about goings-on
with various dances, in regards to how youth leaders are treated.
You wrote:
" They're initially excited and propose things, but then get frustrated as
the long-time folks explain the issues and none of their proposals stick."
Yeah, I think there's an experience gap that you allude to here and that's
real.
At the same time, it is definitely the responsibility for more experienced
leaders to mentor newer leaders, and that mentorship means:
1. Explaining issues in a way that isn't discouraging.
2. Not merely using explaining as a way to shut down suggestions.
On that latter point, I've found that - probably more often than not -
initial suggestions both in contra dance and in my professional career
working in teams usually are not the final solution.
I'm sure I'm not saying anything you don't already know, but bringing it
into this conversation here.
Yeah, new leaders to a volunteer organization have a learning curve, and
their suggestions may need work.
But, _all suggestions_ I see as frequently needing work.
A healthy committee takes those suggestions and integrates them into
whatever ultimate decisions / policies / actions they take. (Again, I'm
sure you've experienced this, but for the purposes of leading to my next
point.)
By contrast, what I've both seen and heard of from many youth leaders are
things like:
"Oh, Soandso has always done the website and that's the way they like it."
"There's no way we could implement Larks / Robins because too many older
dancers would hate it."
"Soandso has always done Treasurer"
"A special dance event would be too difficult"
etc.
The summary being that, as you said, youth leaders come in excited with new
suggestions. Yes, they may need work. But instead of a committee coming
together to form a consensus, youth leaders are shut down.
And I think it's obvious how discouraging that can be.
So, back to the purposes of this email discussion here, the suggestions I
would come for include:
1. Come with a mindset of "how can we make this work / alter the idea to
make it work" rather than "how will this idea not work"
2. Figure out a way to _try out_ ideas older members don't agree with.
3. On a youth-led idea that older members don't think are practical, do
data gathering. Larks/Robins is a great example where practical data made
it clear to the many dances who chose to implement it, as, again, BIDA
certainly demonstrated, and my own dance in Amherst demonstrated.
4. (In regards to your point B) Specifically solicit ideas from youth
leaders. Actively ask their opinions. Realize that experienced leaders have
an innate power imbalance and that is a big reason why new / younger
leaders don't speak up.
" they don't feel like they've accomplished anything and don't feel
useful."
5. Set them up in areas of success. Even little stuff, like, "We had to
decide how to set up the fans in the room as we opened back up after the
pandemic shutdown" was an opportunity where our group could just ... let
newer+younger group members decide and do it with no need for
full-committee approval. (Jeff, I think this basically is your "giving
people responsibilities")
6. Let them fail a little. This is kind of a repeat of #2, but ...
mentoring new leaders means letting them make some mistakes. They need to
be able to take some risks.
6a. When they fail, continue to encourage and frame that failure instead as
"trying something out and learning as a group".
I think your last point is a good one, too.
There's a 20-something / 30ish led new Fusion dance in the Pioneer Valley.
And while one of the organizers has some significant committee experience,
they're one of the least in-charge-y types on that dance's committee.
So, lots of potential lessons for the OP and other readers on the group,
and this email is hardly an exhaustive treatise on mentoring youth leaders.
In short though, I have experienced and seen the dismissal of young
organizers as a repeat, chronic, and widespread issue in contra dance
organizations.
It will take active work from older and more experienced leaders to change
this.
Best regards,
Julian
On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 11:12 AM Jeff Kaufman <jeff(a)alum.swarthmore.edu>
wrote:
On "Listen to youth, put them on your committee,
and implement their
suggestions", this is pretty tricky and is something I've seen several
organizations get wrong.
Let's say you're an established organization with a lot of
institutional knowledge and a built-up system of how things are done, and
you add an enthusiastic young dancer, musician, or caller to your board.
They probably don't know much about how the organization works, and they're
initially not going to know much about what needs doing. When they have
ideas about how to do things differently they often won't understand the
practical issues that led to things being the way they are. So you can
easily get one of two dynamics:
a. They're initially excited and propose things, but then get frustrated
as the long-time folks explain the issues and none of their proposals stick.
b. They stay quiet because they understand how much they don't know, and
don't end up contributing much.
Then, when their initial term is up they don't stay on because they don't
feel like they've accomplished anything and don't feel useful.
I've been the excited young person in this case, and can think of several
other friends who have as well. In retrospect I think most of us wish we
had said no to the invitation.
I don't think the solution is as simple as "implement their suggestions",
though: not every suggestion will be a good one (none of us, young or old,
have only good ideas).
What I've seen work well is giving people responsibility, especially in
areas where they can quickly learn what makes the dance work. For example,
if your dance has a person who does/oversees setup and/or cleanup, teach
them how to do this. Get them filling out the end-of-dance financial
sheets to figure out who gets what money. If you're putting on a new
one-off event get them on a small committee with 1-2 other friendly
organizers. Then when they propose changes they'll be better ones (less
likely to propose something infeasible) and the changes are more likely to
be well received (in a do-ocracy people respect the people they see putting
in work).
There's also a completely different path, where the enthusiastic young
person gets together a group of people and starts something independent.
They can make their own mistakes, without making more work for people on
the committee. If they want to make their new dance gender-free, half
squares, all open bands + open calling, or something else that might get a
lot of pushback at an existing dance, they can just go ahead and do it.
When these work well they draw a new crowd, pulling from their own networks
instead of mostly drawing people away from the existing dance, and you get
a healthier community with more options.
Jeff
On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 8:49 AM Julian Blechner via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Lots of good suggestions from a lot of people.
I think I can boil down success keeping new dancers to:
1. Listen to youth, put then on your committee, and implement their
suggestions.
2. Have a written values statement, which all of your other policies
follow.
3. Make it clear you want to hear from dancers with compliments or
complaints. And actually deal with complaints. Over and over, the biggest
reason I hear people not returning (other than just not liking the dance
form) is unhandled and ignored complaints.
In dance,
Julian Blechner
On Wed, Mar 15, 2023, 8:10 AM Chrissy Fowler via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
*“Getting back to the subject of repeat visitors,
perhaps the biggest
difference of all is a caller who brings the fun and the inclusiveness, the
type who can laugh with you when something goes goofy. (… . ) I'm
tremendously grateful to everyone organizing contra dances, and to all the
people trying to make their dance a little bit better each week.*
*Lex Spoon”*
Hear, hear!
(And I think it’s also the organizers who can bring that fun and
inclusiveness and set the tone for embracing the goofiness.) Let’s face it,
even though some folks forget and take it all a bit too seriously, these
dances we love are *incredibly* weird. Beautifully so, but definitely
on the silly side of joy.
I’m also grateful for all you folks sharing ideas and experiences openly
and nonjudgmentally. What a gift!
Chrissy Fowler
Belfast Maine
*Where we are digging out from the latest nor’easter (ah the joys of
finally getting winter weather in March)*
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
1:50 p.m.
New subject: Where is your home dance, etc? Need ideas/feedback about how to get new dancers to return
Hi folks
Is there a possibility that contributors to these discussions could
indicate where they are from or where their home dance is?
That type of information is useful or at least interesting to many of us
Thanks
Paul Rosenberg
Albany, NY
www.homespun.biz
*Joy Through Traditional Dance & Live Fiddle Music*
518-482-9255
On Thu, Mar 16, 2023 at 9:33 AM Julian Blechner via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Jeff,
I'm glad you're able to dig us into some of the particulars of the
subtopic about youth leadership in contra.
Certainly I agree that it is not as simple as I stated; my email was meant
as brief, high-level bullets, not sufficient instructions for implementing.
I think your questions are good jumping-off points, so I'll do that!
If I had to wager, I would say that your experience with youth dancers in
leadership may differ from ones that I've seen and experienced.
Like, the "I" in BIDA is "Intergenerational" with engaging dancers of
all
ages right there as a primary goal; that alone is going to affect how you
and other BIDA leaders current and past engage with potential youth leaders.
And what I've seen in BIDA's policies, what you personally and advocate
for, and what I've experienced both as a dancer and a performer at your
series contrasts with some of the negative issues I've seen come up.
So, by contrast, I draw upon experience both in dances I've been a regular
at, as well as discussions with peers and younger peers about goings-on
with various dances, in regards to how youth leaders are treated.
You wrote:
" They're initially excited and propose things, but then get frustrated as
the long-time folks explain the issues and none of their proposals stick."
Yeah, I think there's an experience gap that you allude to here and that's
real.
At the same time, it is definitely the responsibility for more experienced
leaders to mentor newer leaders, and that mentorship means:
1. Explaining issues in a way that isn't discouraging.
2. Not merely using explaining as a way to shut down suggestions.
On that latter point, I've found that - probably more often than not -
initial suggestions both in contra dance and in my professional career
working in teams usually are not the final solution.
I'm sure I'm not saying anything you don't already know, but bringing it
into this conversation here.
Yeah, new leaders to a volunteer organization have a learning curve, and
their suggestions may need work.
But, _all suggestions_ I see as frequently needing work.
A healthy committee takes those suggestions and integrates them into
whatever ultimate decisions / policies / actions they take. (Again, I'm
sure you've experienced this, but for the purposes of leading to my next
point.)
By contrast, what I've both seen and heard of from many youth leaders are
things like:
"Oh, Soandso has always done the website and that's the way they like it."
"There's no way we could implement Larks / Robins because too many older
dancers would hate it."
"Soandso has always done Treasurer"
"A special dance event would be too difficult"
etc.
The summary being that, as you said, youth leaders come in excited with
new suggestions. Yes, they may need work. But instead of a committee coming
together to form a consensus, youth leaders are shut down.
And I think it's obvious how discouraging that can be.
So, back to the purposes of this email discussion here, the suggestions I
would come for include:
1. Come with a mindset of "how can we make this work / alter the idea to
make it work" rather than "how will this idea not work"
2. Figure out a way to _try out_ ideas older members don't agree with.
3. On a youth-led idea that older members don't think are practical, do
data gathering. Larks/Robins is a great example where practical data made
it clear to the many dances who chose to implement it, as, again, BIDA
certainly demonstrated, and my own dance in Amherst demonstrated.
4. (In regards to your point B) Specifically solicit ideas from youth
leaders. Actively ask their opinions. Realize that experienced leaders have
an innate power imbalance and that is a big reason why new / younger
leaders don't speak up.
" they don't feel like they've accomplished anything and don't feel
useful."
5. Set them up in areas of success. Even little stuff, like, "We had to
decide how to set up the fans in the room as we opened back up after the
pandemic shutdown" was an opportunity where our group could just ... let
newer+younger group members decide and do it with no need for
full-committee approval. (Jeff, I think this basically is your "giving
people responsibilities")
6. Let them fail a little. This is kind of a repeat of #2, but ...
mentoring new leaders means letting them make some mistakes. They need to
be able to take some risks.
6a. When they fail, continue to encourage and frame that failure instead
as "trying something out and learning as a group".
I think your last point is a good one, too.
There's a 20-something / 30ish led new Fusion dance in the Pioneer Valley.
And while one of the organizers has some significant committee experience,
they're one of the least in-charge-y types on that dance's committee.
So, lots of potential lessons for the OP and other readers on the group,
and this email is hardly an exhaustive treatise on mentoring youth leaders.
In short though, I have experienced and seen the dismissal of young
organizers as a repeat, chronic, and widespread issue in contra dance
organizations.
It will take active work from older and more experienced leaders to change
this.
Best regards,
Julian
On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 11:12 AM Jeff Kaufman <jeff(a)alum.swarthmore.edu>
wrote:
On "Listen to youth, put them on your
committee, and implement their
suggestions", this is pretty tricky and is something I've seen several
organizations get wrong.
Let's say you're an established organization with a lot of
institutional knowledge and a built-up system of how things are done, and
you add an enthusiastic young dancer, musician, or caller to your board.
They probably don't know much about how the organization works, and they're
initially not going to know much about what needs doing. When they have
ideas about how to do things differently they often won't understand the
practical issues that led to things being the way they are. So you can
easily get one of two dynamics:
a. They're initially excited and propose things, but then get frustrated
as the long-time folks explain the issues and none of their proposals stick.
b. They stay quiet because they understand how much they don't know, and
don't end up contributing much.
Then, when their initial term is up they don't stay on because they don't
feel like they've accomplished anything and don't feel useful.
I've been the excited young person in this case, and can think of several
other friends who have as well. In retrospect I think most of us wish we
had said no to the invitation.
I don't think the solution is as simple as "implement their suggestions",
though: not every suggestion will be a good one (none of us, young or old,
have only good ideas).
What I've seen work well is giving people responsibility, especially in
areas where they can quickly learn what makes the dance work. For example,
if your dance has a person who does/oversees setup and/or cleanup, teach
them how to do this. Get them filling out the end-of-dance financial
sheets to figure out who gets what money. If you're putting on a new
one-off event get them on a small committee with 1-2 other friendly
organizers. Then when they propose changes they'll be better ones (less
likely to propose something infeasible) and the changes are more likely to
be well received (in a do-ocracy people respect the people they see putting
in work).
There's also a completely different path, where the enthusiastic young
person gets together a group of people and starts something independent.
They can make their own mistakes, without making more work for people on
the committee. If they want to make their new dance gender-free, half
squares, all open bands + open calling, or something else that might get a
lot of pushback at an existing dance, they can just go ahead and do it.
When these work well they draw a new crowd, pulling from their own networks
instead of mostly drawing people away from the existing dance, and you get
a healthier community with more options.
Jeff
On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 8:49 AM Julian Blechner via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Organizers mailing list --
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
Lots of good suggestions from a lot of people.
I think I can boil down success keeping new dancers to:
1. Listen to youth, put then on your committee, and implement their
suggestions.
2. Have a written values statement, which all of your other policies
follow.
3. Make it clear you want to hear from dancers with compliments or
complaints. And actually deal with complaints. Over and over, the biggest
reason I hear people not returning (other than just not liking the dance
form) is unhandled and ignored complaints.
In dance,
Julian Blechner
On Wed, Mar 15, 2023, 8:10 AM Chrissy Fowler via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
_______________________________________________ *“Getting back to the subject of repeat visitors,
perhaps the biggest
difference of all is a caller who brings the fun and the inclusiveness, the
type who can laugh with you when something goes goofy. (… . ) I'm
tremendously grateful to everyone organizing contra dances, and to all the
people trying to make their dance a little bit better each week.*
*Lex Spoon”*
Hear, hear!
(And I think it’s also the organizers who can bring that fun and
inclusiveness and set the tone for embracing the goofiness.) Let’s face it,
even though some folks forget and take it all a bit too seriously, these
dances we love are *incredibly* weird. Beautifully so, but definitely
on the silly side of joy.
I’m also grateful for all you folks sharing ideas and experiences
openly and nonjudgmentally. What a gift!
Chrissy Fowler
Belfast Maine
*Where we are digging out from the latest nor’easter (ah the joys of
finally getting winter weather in March)*
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
2:11 p.m.
New subject: Where is your home dance, etc? Need ideas/feedback about how to get new dancers to return
Hi Paul,
The way I treat email signatures is thus:
If I state my organization name in my signature, this is a signal that I am
speaking for my committee.
In the case of 99% of my Shared Weight emails, I am speaking only for
myself and my own experience. I exclude my committee from my email
signature on purpose, for that reason.
At the same time, I see what you mean and get that it can be valuable
information.
I did, in the context of that email, mention my dance, but, it was a lot of
words so I can see it getting lost.
I'll take your feedback, and look at what options Google Mail has for
signatures, and consider setting one up for Shared Weight Organizers list
specifically where it can both list my committee and specifically have a
disclaimer that I am speaking just for myself.
Questions for you, so I can fill this need better:
- Is it the specific committee that's valuable?
- Are you just looking for geographic area?
- Is listing non-dance volunteer organization memberships also valuable, or
just when those are relevant in context?
- Is knowing past committee memberships also valuable, or, again, only when
relevant in context?
Thanks!
-Julian
Julian Blechner (he/him)
(Speaking only for myself, and not any organization)
Committee Member, Downtown Amherst Contra Dance, Amherst, MA, USA
On Thu, Mar 16, 2023 at 9:50 AM Paul Rosenberg <paul(a)homespun.biz> wrote:
Hi folks
Is there a possibility that contributors to these discussions could
indicate where they are from or where their home dance is?
That type of information is useful or at least interesting to many of us
Thanks
Paul Rosenberg
Albany, NY
www.homespun.biz
*Joy Through Traditional Dance & Live Fiddle Music*
518-482-9255
On Thu, Mar 16, 2023 at 9:33 AM Julian Blechner via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Jeff,
I'm glad you're able to dig us into some of the particulars of the
subtopic about youth leadership in contra.
Certainly I agree that it is not as simple as I stated; my email was
meant as brief, high-level bullets, not sufficient instructions for
implementing.
I think your questions are good jumping-off points, so I'll do that!
If I had to wager, I would say that your experience with youth dancers in
leadership may differ from ones that I've seen and experienced.
Like, the "I" in BIDA is "Intergenerational" with engaging dancers of
all
ages right there as a primary goal; that alone is going to affect how you
and other BIDA leaders current and past engage with potential youth leaders.
And what I've seen in BIDA's policies, what you personally and advocate
for, and what I've experienced both as a dancer and a performer at your
series contrasts with some of the negative issues I've seen come up.
So, by contrast, I draw upon experience both in dances I've been a
regular at, as well as discussions with peers and younger peers about
goings-on with various dances, in regards to how youth leaders are treated.
You wrote:
" They're initially excited and propose things, but then get frustrated
as the long-time folks explain the issues and none of their proposals
stick."
Yeah, I think there's an experience gap that you allude to here and
that's real.
At the same time, it is definitely the responsibility for more
experienced leaders to mentor newer leaders, and that mentorship means:
1. Explaining issues in a way that isn't discouraging.
2. Not merely using explaining as a way to shut down suggestions.
On that latter point, I've found that - probably more often than not -
initial suggestions both in contra dance and in my professional career
working in teams usually are not the final solution.
I'm sure I'm not saying anything you don't already know, but bringing it
into this conversation here.
Yeah, new leaders to a volunteer organization have a learning curve, and
their suggestions may need work.
But, _all suggestions_ I see as frequently needing work.
A healthy committee takes those suggestions and integrates them into
whatever ultimate decisions / policies / actions they take. (Again, I'm
sure you've experienced this, but for the purposes of leading to my next
point.)
By contrast, what I've both seen and heard of from many youth leaders are
things like:
"Oh, Soandso has always done the website and that's the way they like it."
"There's no way we could implement Larks / Robins because too many older
dancers would hate it."
"Soandso has always done Treasurer"
"A special dance event would be too difficult"
etc.
The summary being that, as you said, youth leaders come in excited with
new suggestions. Yes, they may need work. But instead of a committee coming
together to form a consensus, youth leaders are shut down.
And I think it's obvious how discouraging that can be.
So, back to the purposes of this email discussion here, the suggestions I
would come for include:
1. Come with a mindset of "how can we make this work / alter the idea to
make it work" rather than "how will this idea not work"
2. Figure out a way to _try out_ ideas older members don't agree with.
3. On a youth-led idea that older members don't think are practical, do
data gathering. Larks/Robins is a great example where practical data made
it clear to the many dances who chose to implement it, as, again, BIDA
certainly demonstrated, and my own dance in Amherst demonstrated.
4. (In regards to your point B) Specifically solicit ideas from youth
leaders. Actively ask their opinions. Realize that experienced leaders have
an innate power imbalance and that is a big reason why new / younger
leaders don't speak up.
" they don't feel like they've accomplished anything and don't feel
useful."
5. Set them up in areas of success. Even little stuff, like, "We had to
decide how to set up the fans in the room as we opened back up after the
pandemic shutdown" was an opportunity where our group could just ... let
newer+younger group members decide and do it with no need for
full-committee approval. (Jeff, I think this basically is your "giving
people responsibilities")
6. Let them fail a little. This is kind of a repeat of #2, but ...
mentoring new leaders means letting them make some mistakes. They need to
be able to take some risks.
6a. When they fail, continue to encourage and frame that failure instead
as "trying something out and learning as a group".
I think your last point is a good one, too.
There's a 20-something / 30ish led new Fusion dance in the Pioneer
Valley. And while one of the organizers has some significant committee
experience, they're one of the least in-charge-y types on that dance's
committee.
So, lots of potential lessons for the OP and other readers on the group,
and this email is hardly an exhaustive treatise on mentoring youth leaders.
In short though, I have experienced and seen the dismissal of young
organizers as a repeat, chronic, and widespread issue in contra dance
organizations.
It will take active work from older and more experienced leaders to
change this.
Best regards,
Julian
On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 11:12 AM Jeff Kaufman <jeff(a)alum.swarthmore.edu>
wrote:
On "Listen to youth, put them on your
committee, and implement their
suggestions", this is pretty tricky and is something I've seen several
organizations get wrong.
Let's say you're an established organization with a lot of
institutional knowledge and a built-up system of how things are done, and
you add an enthusiastic young dancer, musician, or caller to your board.
They probably don't know much about how the organization works, and they're
initially not going to know much about what needs doing. When they have
ideas about how to do things differently they often won't understand the
practical issues that led to things being the way they are. So you can
easily get one of two dynamics:
a. They're initially excited and propose things, but then get
frustrated as the long-time folks explain the issues and none of their
proposals stick.
b. They stay quiet because they understand how much they don't know,
and don't end up contributing much.
Then, when their initial term is up they don't stay on because they
don't feel like they've accomplished anything and don't feel useful.
I've been the excited young person in this case, and can think of
several other friends who have as well. In retrospect I think most of us
wish we had said no to the invitation.
I don't think the solution is as simple as "implement their
suggestions", though: not every suggestion will be a good one (none of us,
young or old, have only good ideas).
What I've seen work well is giving people responsibility, especially in
areas where they can quickly learn what makes the dance work. For example,
if your dance has a person who does/oversees setup and/or cleanup, teach
them how to do this. Get them filling out the end-of-dance financial
sheets to figure out who gets what money. If you're putting on a new
one-off event get them on a small committee with 1-2 other friendly
organizers. Then when they propose changes they'll be better ones (less
likely to propose something infeasible) and the changes are more likely to
be well received (in a do-ocracy people respect the people they see putting
in work).
There's also a completely different path, where the enthusiastic young
person gets together a group of people and starts something independent.
They can make their own mistakes, without making more work for people on
the committee. If they want to make their new dance gender-free, half
squares, all open bands + open calling, or something else that might get a
lot of pushback at an existing dance, they can just go ahead and do it.
When these work well they draw a new crowd, pulling from their own networks
instead of mostly drawing people away from the existing dance, and you get
a healthier community with more options.
Jeff
On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 8:49 AM Julian Blechner via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Organizers mailing list --
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
Lots of good suggestions from a lot of people.
I think I can boil down success keeping new dancers to:
1. Listen to youth, put then on your committee, and implement their
suggestions.
2. Have a written values statement, which all of your other policies
follow.
3. Make it clear you want to hear from dancers with compliments or
complaints. And actually deal with complaints. Over and over, the biggest
reason I hear people not returning (other than just not liking the dance
form) is unhandled and ignored complaints.
In dance,
Julian Blechner
On Wed, Mar 15, 2023, 8:10 AM Chrissy Fowler via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> *“Getting back to the subject of repeat visitors, perhaps the biggest
> difference of all is a caller who brings the fun and the inclusiveness, the
> type who can laugh with you when something goes goofy. (… . ) I'm
> tremendously grateful to everyone organizing contra dances, and to all the
> people trying to make their dance a little bit better each week.*
> *Lex Spoon”*
>
> Hear, hear!
>
> (And I think it’s also the organizers who can bring that fun and
> inclusiveness and set the tone for embracing the goofiness.) Let’s face it,
> even though some folks forget and take it all a bit too seriously, these
> dances we love are *incredibly* weird. Beautifully so, but definitely
> on the silly side of joy.
>
> I’m also grateful for all you folks sharing ideas and experiences
> openly and nonjudgmentally. What a gift!
>
> Chrissy Fowler
> Belfast Maine
> *Where we are digging out from the latest nor’easter (ah the joys of
> finally getting winter weather in March)*
> _______________________________________________
> Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> To unsubscribe send an email to
> organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
_______________________________________________
3:13 p.m.
New subject: Where is your home dance, etc? Need ideas/feedback about how to get new dancers to return
Hi Julian
Wow, you sure are thorough!
If you are ever looking for part-time work, I could use another
subcontractor who is as thorough as you!
By the way, I add my city manually when I remember to do that for all of
these Shared Weight conversations.. I don't want to add more clutter to my
signature line for my other clients and friends
For me, the most important information is the geographic area where people
dance and or organize. But the dance series that people are connected to is
also very useful
And for your final two points, non-dance volunteer activities -- as well as
past committee volunteer activities -- are useful to me mainly in context.
Let me know the next time you're coming to call in the Albany area, because
if you are as thorough in teaching and leading dancers I might enjoy
participating!
Although I rarely attend contradances nowadays because of the evolution
into "take no prisoners" fast moving cardio workouts that leave so many
physically and mentally challenged people behind. It gives me too much pain
and frustration when I know many of those folks would absolutely love
community dancing.
Swinging away
Paul Rosenberg
Albany, NY
www.homespun.biz
*Joy Through Traditional Dance & Live Fiddle Music*
518-482-9255
On Thu, Mar 16, 2023 at 10:11 AM Julian Blechner <
juliancallsdances(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Paul,
The way I treat email signatures is thus:
If I state my organization name in my signature, this is a signal that I
am speaking for my committee.
In the case of 99% of my Shared Weight emails, I am speaking only for
myself and my own experience. I exclude my committee from my email
signature on purpose, for that reason.
At the same time, I see what you mean and get that it can be valuable
information.
I did, in the context of that email, mention my dance, but, it was a lot
of words so I can see it getting lost.
I'll take your feedback, and look at what options Google Mail has for
signatures, and consider setting one up for Shared Weight Organizers list
specifically where it can both list my committee and specifically have a
disclaimer that I am speaking just for myself.
Questions for you, so I can fill this need better:
- Is it the specific committee that's valuable?
- Are you just looking for geographic area?
- Is listing non-dance volunteer organization memberships also valuable,
or just when those are relevant in context?
- Is knowing past committee memberships also valuable, or, again, only
when relevant in context?
Thanks!
-Julian
Julian Blechner (he/him)
(Speaking only for myself, and not any organization)
Committee Member, Downtown Amherst Contra Dance, Amherst, MA, USA
On Thu, Mar 16, 2023 at 9:50 AM Paul Rosenberg <paul(a)homespun.biz> wrote:
> Hi folks
>
> Is there a possibility that contributors to these discussions could
> indicate where they are from or where their home dance is?
>
> That type of information is useful or at least interesting to many of us
>
> Thanks
> Paul Rosenberg
> Albany, NY
> www.homespun.biz
> *Joy Through Traditional Dance & Live Fiddle Music*
> 518-482-9255
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 16, 2023 at 9:33 AM Julian Blechner via Organizers <
> organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> Jeff,
>>
>> I'm glad you're able to dig us into some of the particulars of the
>> subtopic about youth leadership in contra.
>> Certainly I agree that it is not as simple as I stated; my email was
>> meant as brief, high-level bullets, not sufficient instructions for
>> implementing.
>>
>> I think your questions are good jumping-off points, so I'll do that!
>>
>> If I had to wager, I would say that your experience with youth dancers
>> in leadership may differ from ones that I've seen and experienced.
>> Like, the "I" in BIDA is "Intergenerational" with engaging
dancers of
>> all ages right there as a primary goal; that alone is going to affect how
>> you and other BIDA leaders current and past engage with potential youth
>> leaders.
>> And what I've seen in BIDA's policies, what you personally and advocate
>> for, and what I've experienced both as a dancer and a performer at your
>> series contrasts with some of the negative issues I've seen come up.
>>
>> So, by contrast, I draw upon experience both in dances I've been a
>> regular at, as well as discussions with peers and younger peers about
>> goings-on with various dances, in regards to how youth leaders are treated.
>>
>> You wrote:
>> " They're initially excited and propose things, but then get frustrated
>> as the long-time folks explain the issues and none of their proposals
>> stick."
>>
>> Yeah, I think there's an experience gap that you allude to here and
>> that's real.
>> At the same time, it is definitely the responsibility for more
>> experienced leaders to mentor newer leaders, and that mentorship means:
>> 1. Explaining issues in a way that isn't discouraging.
>> 2. Not merely using explaining as a way to shut down suggestions.
>>
>> On that latter point, I've found that - probably more often than not -
>> initial suggestions both in contra dance and in my professional career
>> working in teams usually are not the final solution.
>> I'm sure I'm not saying anything you don't already know, but bringing
it
>> into this conversation here.
>> Yeah, new leaders to a volunteer organization have a learning curve, and
>> their suggestions may need work.
>> But, _all suggestions_ I see as frequently needing work.
>> A healthy committee takes those suggestions and integrates them into
>> whatever ultimate decisions / policies / actions they take. (Again, I'm
>> sure you've experienced this, but for the purposes of leading to my next
>> point.)
>>
>> By contrast, what I've both seen and heard of from many youth leaders
>> are things like:
>> "Oh, Soandso has always done the website and that's the way they like
>> it."
>> "There's no way we could implement Larks / Robins because too many
older
>> dancers would hate it."
>> "Soandso has always done Treasurer"
>> "A special dance event would be too difficult"
>> etc.
>>
>> The summary being that, as you said, youth leaders come in excited with
>> new suggestions. Yes, they may need work. But instead of a committee coming
>> together to form a consensus, youth leaders are shut down.
>> And I think it's obvious how discouraging that can be.
>>
>> So, back to the purposes of this email discussion here, the suggestions
>> I would come for include:
>> 1. Come with a mindset of "how can we make this work / alter the idea to
>> make it work" rather than "how will this idea not work"
>> 2. Figure out a way to _try out_ ideas older members don't agree with.
>> 3. On a youth-led idea that older members don't think are practical, do
>> data gathering. Larks/Robins is a great example where practical data made
>> it clear to the many dances who chose to implement it, as, again, BIDA
>> certainly demonstrated, and my own dance in Amherst demonstrated.
>> 4. (In regards to your point B) Specifically solicit ideas from youth
>> leaders. Actively ask their opinions. Realize that experienced leaders have
>> an innate power imbalance and that is a big reason why new / younger
>> leaders don't speak up.
>>
>> " they don't feel like they've accomplished anything and don't
feel
>> useful."
>>
>> 5. Set them up in areas of success. Even little stuff, like, "We had to
>> decide how to set up the fans in the room as we opened back up after the
>> pandemic shutdown" was an opportunity where our group could just ... let
>> newer+younger group members decide and do it with no need for
>> full-committee approval. (Jeff, I think this basically is your "giving
>> people responsibilities")
>>
>> 6. Let them fail a little. This is kind of a repeat of #2, but ...
>> mentoring new leaders means letting them make some mistakes. They need to
>> be able to take some risks.
>> 6a. When they fail, continue to encourage and frame that failure instead
>> as "trying something out and learning as a group".
>>
>> I think your last point is a good one, too.
>> There's a 20-something / 30ish led new Fusion dance in the Pioneer
>> Valley. And while one of the organizers has some significant committee
>> experience, they're one of the least in-charge-y types on that dance's
>> committee.
>>
>> So, lots of potential lessons for the OP and other readers on the group,
>> and this email is hardly an exhaustive treatise on mentoring youth leaders.
>>
>> In short though, I have experienced and seen the dismissal of young
>> organizers as a repeat, chronic, and widespread issue in contra dance
>> organizations.
>> It will take active work from older and more experienced leaders to
>> change this.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Julian
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 11:12 AM Jeff Kaufman <jeff(a)alum.swarthmore.edu>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On "Listen to youth, put them on your committee, and implement their
>>> suggestions", this is pretty tricky and is something I've seen
several
>>> organizations get wrong.
>>>
>>> Let's say you're an established organization with a lot of
>>> institutional knowledge and a built-up system of how things are done, and
>>> you add an enthusiastic young dancer, musician, or caller to your board.
>>> They probably don't know much about how the organization works, and
they're
>>> initially not going to know much about what needs doing. When they have
>>> ideas about how to do things differently they often won't understand the
>>> practical issues that led to things being the way they are. So you can
>>> easily get one of two dynamics:
>>>
>>> a. They're initially excited and propose things, but then get
>>> frustrated as the long-time folks explain the issues and none of their
>>> proposals stick.
>>>
>>> b. They stay quiet because they understand how much they don't know,
>>> and don't end up contributing much.
>>>
>>> Then, when their initial term is up they don't stay on because they
>>> don't feel like they've accomplished anything and don't feel
useful.
>>>
>>> I've been the excited young person in this case, and can think of
>>> several other friends who have as well. In retrospect I think most of us
>>> wish we had said no to the invitation.
>>>
>>> I don't think the solution is as simple as "implement their
>>> suggestions", though: not every suggestion will be a good one (none of
us,
>>> young or old, have only good ideas).
>>>
>>> What I've seen work well is giving people responsibility, especially in
>>> areas where they can quickly learn what makes the dance work. For example,
>>> if your dance has a person who does/oversees setup and/or cleanup, teach
>>> them how to do this. Get them filling out the end-of-dance financial
>>> sheets to figure out who gets what money. If you're putting on a new
>>> one-off event get them on a small committee with 1-2 other friendly
>>> organizers. Then when they propose changes they'll be better ones (less
>>> likely to propose something infeasible) and the changes are more likely to
>>> be well received (in a do-ocracy people respect the people they see putting
>>> in work).
>>>
>>> There's also a completely different path, where the enthusiastic young
>>> person gets together a group of people and starts something independent.
>>> They can make their own mistakes, without making more work for people on
>>> the committee. If they want to make their new dance gender-free, half
>>> squares, all open bands + open calling, or something else that might get a
>>> lot of pushback at an existing dance, they can just go ahead and do it.
>>> When these work well they draw a new crowd, pulling from their own networks
>>> instead of mostly drawing people away from the existing dance, and you get
>>> a healthier community with more options.
>>>
>>> Jeff
>>>
>>> On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 8:49 AM Julian Blechner via Organizers <
>>> organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Lots of good suggestions from a lot of people.
>>>>
>>>> I think I can boil down success keeping new dancers to:
>>>> 1. Listen to youth, put then on your committee, and implement their
>>>> suggestions.
>>>> 2. Have a written values statement, which all of your other policies
>>>> follow.
>>>> 3. Make it clear you want to hear from dancers with compliments or
>>>> complaints. And actually deal with complaints. Over and over, the
biggest
>>>> reason I hear people not returning (other than just not liking the dance
>>>> form) is unhandled and ignored complaints.
>>>>
>>>> In dance,
>>>> Julian Blechner
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Mar 15, 2023, 8:10 AM Chrissy Fowler via Organizers <
>>>> organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> *“Getting back to the subject of repeat visitors, perhaps the
biggest
>>>>> difference of all is a caller who brings the fun and the
inclusiveness, the
>>>>> type who can laugh with you when something goes goofy. (… . )
I'm
>>>>> tremendously grateful to everyone organizing contra dances, and to
all the
>>>>> people trying to make their dance a little bit better each week.*
>>>>> *Lex Spoon”*
>>>>>
>>>>> Hear, hear!
>>>>>
>>>>> (And I think it’s also the organizers who can bring that fun and
>>>>> inclusiveness and set the tone for embracing the goofiness.) Let’s
face it,
>>>>> even though some folks forget and take it all a bit too seriously,
these
>>>>> dances we love are *incredibly* weird. Beautifully so, but
>>>>> definitely on the silly side of joy.
>>>>>
>>>>> I’m also grateful for all you folks sharing ideas and experiences
>>>>> openly and nonjudgmentally. What a gift!
>>>>>
>>>>> Chrissy Fowler
>>>>> Belfast Maine
>>>>> *Where we are digging out from the latest nor’easter (ah the joys of
>>>>> finally getting winter weather in March)*
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to
>>>>> organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to
>>>> organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>> Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>
>
17 Mar
17 Mar
6:49 p.m.
Chiming in from up in Ottawa Ontario where we are on march break... pretty
busy with kid activities!
There have been so many wonderful points on a wiiiiide range of topics in
this discussion. I'm so appreciative and am learning lots. :)
I've written a very mixed bag of thoughts below, sometimes riffing on what
others have said (e.g., name buttons; second dance free passes).
These are quick thoughts because of the tight times during march break so I
hope I've been able to communicate these ideas all riiiiiight.... :)
- *Name tags: *I personally love them whether they are buttons (could
feel a bit exclusive to those without) or simply stickers available for
people to write their names. Not a requirement but an option for people to
connect names.
- *ID for new folks: *In Ottawa prior to the pandemic, we were
suggesting that anyone who felt relatively new grab one of the bright
colour stickers (can't remember the colour... let's say fluorescent green)
and that we'd look out for them on the dance floor, ask to dance etc..
Then those with more experience could quickly ID folks who self-identified
as new AND the new folks who wanted to, could flag that they wanted more
connection/support. These seemed to work really well!
- *2nd dance free passes: *We've used them in Ottawa for a decade - we
track how many go out and come back. Not sure how effective they are but we
do get them back and it's something for everyone. I like Sandy's idea of
handing them out during the beginner lesson... that's cool and I had never
heard of that before!
- *Timing of the dance: *I saw lots of mentions of dancers arriving
late, missing the beginner lesson. A lot of those dances start at 7. I'm
totally not sure about this but the Ottawa beginner lesson is at 730pm and
dance is from 8-11pm with visiting at a local pub after. We tend to get a
lot of people at the beginner lesson. I'm wondering if that extra 1/2hr
might just be enough for folks to finish their dinner.
- *Option to eat at hall ahead of time: * Related to the above on
timing, I was juuuuust at the Quebec City contra dance this past weekend.
They hold theirs Sunday afternoons and they publicly invite anyone who
wants to bring their lunch to the hall ahead of time and eat it there.
There were only a few people who did that but I really love the idea of
packing an easy meal, eating it on one's lap, and visiting with folks. It
gets some folks there earlier (maybe they'd help with set up?!), creates
more visiting/socializing/connection time (which is so important to
building community..... ..
- *Beginner lesson:* I've seen so so many... ... I think it's really
important to make make it as fun, inclusive, and encouraging as possible.
Lots of movement, very little standing around, feeling of learning skills
and success!
- *Dancers bringing their friends: *This has been by far the biggest
success for our local community and that I've heard over the years talking
to other organizers... word of mouth. There are lots of strategies to
encourage this (E.g., I heard of once dance that would provide a birthday
cake to dancers who would have have their Bday party at the dance and bring
friends).
- *Re level of dance (as in card/figures): * This might just be me but I
really don't mind simple dances as long as the music is AWESOME and there
is good flow to them. Much better than wading through long teaching and/or
confusion on the floor as the dance is too hard for the crowd. I could
totally be wrong on this but I think for dances with lots of beginners....
I'd try to get everyone having as much success as possible, quick teaching,
and awesome music. This also get's to Lex's point about the mental load.
Don't want it to be overwhelming for new folks or their brains will shut
off.
- *Make it as much a social/happening/community space as possible:* Some
people just come for the dancing. That's what they love. But for many,
feeling a sense of community/belonging is important. And for newer folks, I
think it can really help if the event feels like 'it's the place to
be/really happenin/lots of great energy. It's interesting... I get way
more excited about a dance if I know the energy is going to be jumpin in
the crowd and that the caller will be making it as fun as possible. If it
feels like it's 'not a happenin' place or if I feel unwelcome (has
happened
in various communities even as an experienced dancer), I'm not really
interested in going back. There's lots of strategies to up the
social/community/happenin' vibe.
I helped create this resource a few years ago... it's a collection of
flyers/posters from 57 different dance communities. Each piece of print
material communicates a fair bit about how their event feels/or not...
https://cdss.org/wp-content/uploads/resources/CDSS-inspiring-promo-material…
- *Re goofy ... leading into joy*: I loved Lex and Chrissy's points on
the value of goofyness and I think this directly relates to joy, laughter,
and connection. These things make people feel good, build community and I
think encourage people to come back.
- *Julian's points: *I really liked Julian's points about
listening/engaging youth, having a values statement (Ottawa worked hard on
updating our mission/vision statement to capture this stuff) and yes yes
yes to promoting that open to complimeents/complaints + deal with. Soooo
great! And such great points from Jeff on the challenges youth face when
joining committees.
- *Re role terminology in contra dance: *Dana wrote so eloquently and I
agree with all Dana said. Also, I was at the Quebec City contra dance,
which is small but growing and joyful contra community and they are not
only using the terms ladies and gents but interspersing them with 'hommes'
et 'femmes' (men/women) coming from the French Canadian square dancing
context (which has a LOT of young people engaged in certain communities).
Helping to shift society through dance can be powerful in local contexts
and I think it's important to also to appreciate dance communities for
which these forms of inclusion haven't come up on the radar yet or their
local societal context may be different. (And yes I know encouraging is
needed there too!) I think of my many years doing Cape Breton square
dancing and while they no longer use callers, you will VERY rarely see two
gents dancing together. (In fact, I can't remember seeing it.) Yes, they
are excluding certain people and at the same time, they are continuing
traditions that have been in their communities for decades, they are
bringing youth together with adults, and elders, they are connecting to
their gaelic roots, etc. I'm not sure how to communicate this eloquently
but I can appreciate that for those communities, that's how they currently
celebrate their traditions and to push non-gendered dancing I think
would alienate enough of the core community that their dances might not
survive. I have been calling with Larks & Robins for a bit and have
attended a positional calling workshop... attending another tomorrow in
Syracuse! So I'm working on the shift while trying to appreciating each
dance community for the positives they bring to their community. Thoughts
on this?
- *Re engaging youth... and young families: * I think it's fantastic re
engaging youth. I've seen many folks focus on the college-aged community.
At the same time, I haven't seen as much effort to engage folks with
children in the contra dance community. While not adults choose to have
children, adults tend to become less transient after college and are more
likely to stay living in a community for a longer period of time. I'd love
to chat about more strategies to engage folks in their 30-50s ... ... also
thinking ahead to how older adults have more time to volunteer (i.e., not
trying to get established in jobs, might even be retired)
- *Re the intensity of contra dance: *I feel many of us who have been
contra dancing for a long time forget how many of our accepted norms are
sooooooo far from what the general public is used to. Looking strangers in
the eye for long times, swinging closely with all sorts of people. Put on
top of that some of the intense (even super sexy) feel of some contra dance
bands and wow, I think that's likely a challenge for many new folks to
overcome to feel comfortable. I'm not saying we should change these
things but rather, acknowledge that this can be prettttty darn weird for
new folks and figure out ways to make it easier for them.
*So interesting re promo text:* I loved Joe's promo text he shared about
their upcoming dance... .... that's totally the type of language that I
think would draw folks in. soooo.... not sure why it's not happenin. I'd be
curious what others think.
I loved hearing about the dances down around Heitzso's way... .sounds like
there are some really happenin' communities which is encouraging. Sautee
Georgia sounds fascinating with it's family vibe.
Signing off from Ottawa, Ontario.
:) Emily Addison
On Thu, Mar 16, 2023 at 9:33 AM Julian Blechner via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Jeff,
I'm glad you're able to dig us into some of the particulars of the
subtopic about youth leadership in contra.
Certainly I agree that it is not as simple as I stated; my email was meant
as brief, high-level bullets, not sufficient instructions for implementing.
I think your questions are good jumping-off points, so I'll do that!
If I had to wager, I would say that your experience with youth dancers in
leadership may differ from ones that I've seen and experienced.
Like, the "I" in BIDA is "Intergenerational" with engaging dancers of
all
ages right there as a primary goal; that alone is going to affect how you
and other BIDA leaders current and past engage with potential youth leaders.
And what I've seen in BIDA's policies, what you personally and advocate
for, and what I've experienced both as a dancer and a performer at your
series contrasts with some of the negative issues I've seen come up.
So, by contrast, I draw upon experience both in dances I've been a regular
at, as well as discussions with peers and younger peers about goings-on
with various dances, in regards to how youth leaders are treated.
You wrote:
" They're initially excited and propose things, but then get frustrated as
the long-time folks explain the issues and none of their proposals stick."
Yeah, I think there's an experience gap that you allude to here and that's
real.
At the same time, it is definitely the responsibility for more experienced
leaders to mentor newer leaders, and that mentorship means:
1. Explaining issues in a way that isn't discouraging.
2. Not merely using explaining as a way to shut down suggestions.
On that latter point, I've found that - probably more often than not -
initial suggestions both in contra dance and in my professional career
working in teams usually are not the final solution.
I'm sure I'm not saying anything you don't already know, but bringing it
into this conversation here.
Yeah, new leaders to a volunteer organization have a learning curve, and
their suggestions may need work.
But, _all suggestions_ I see as frequently needing work.
A healthy committee takes those suggestions and integrates them into
whatever ultimate decisions / policies / actions they take. (Again, I'm
sure you've experienced this, but for the purposes of leading to my next
point.)
By contrast, what I've both seen and heard of from many youth leaders are
things like:
"Oh, Soandso has always done the website and that's the way they like it."
"There's no way we could implement Larks / Robins because too many older
dancers would hate it."
"Soandso has always done Treasurer"
"A special dance event would be too difficult"
etc.
The summary being that, as you said, youth leaders come in excited with
new suggestions. Yes, they may need work. But instead of a committee coming
together to form a consensus, youth leaders are shut down.
And I think it's obvious how discouraging that can be.
So, back to the purposes of this email discussion here, the suggestions I
would come for include:
1. Come with a mindset of "how can we make this work / alter the idea to
make it work" rather than "how will this idea not work"
2. Figure out a way to _try out_ ideas older members don't agree with.
3. On a youth-led idea that older members don't think are practical, do
data gathering. Larks/Robins is a great example where practical data made
it clear to the many dances who chose to implement it, as, again, BIDA
certainly demonstrated, and my own dance in Amherst demonstrated.
4. (In regards to your point B) Specifically solicit ideas from youth
leaders. Actively ask their opinions. Realize that experienced leaders have
an innate power imbalance and that is a big reason why new / younger
leaders don't speak up.
" they don't feel like they've accomplished anything and don't feel
useful."
5. Set them up in areas of success. Even little stuff, like, "We had to
decide how to set up the fans in the room as we opened back up after the
pandemic shutdown" was an opportunity where our group could just ... let
newer+younger group members decide and do it with no need for
full-committee approval. (Jeff, I think this basically is your "giving
people responsibilities")
6. Let them fail a little. This is kind of a repeat of #2, but ...
mentoring new leaders means letting them make some mistakes. They need to
be able to take some risks.
6a. When they fail, continue to encourage and frame that failure instead
as "trying something out and learning as a group".
I think your last point is a good one, too.
There's a 20-something / 30ish led new Fusion dance in the Pioneer Valley.
And while one of the organizers has some significant committee experience,
they're one of the least in-charge-y types on that dance's committee.
So, lots of potential lessons for the OP and other readers on the group,
and this email is hardly an exhaustive treatise on mentoring youth leaders.
In short though, I have experienced and seen the dismissal of young
organizers as a repeat, chronic, and widespread issue in contra dance
organizations.
It will take active work from older and more experienced leaders to change
this.
Best regards,
Julian
On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 11:12 AM Jeff Kaufman <jeff(a)alum.swarthmore.edu>
wrote:
On "Listen to youth, put them on your
committee, and implement their
suggestions", this is pretty tricky and is something I've seen several
organizations get wrong.
Let's say you're an established organization with a lot of
institutional knowledge and a built-up system of how things are done, and
you add an enthusiastic young dancer, musician, or caller to your board.
They probably don't know much about how the organization works, and they're
initially not going to know much about what needs doing. When they have
ideas about how to do things differently they often won't understand the
practical issues that led to things being the way they are. So you can
easily get one of two dynamics:
a. They're initially excited and propose things, but then get frustrated
as the long-time folks explain the issues and none of their proposals stick.
b. They stay quiet because they understand how much they don't know, and
don't end up contributing much.
Then, when their initial term is up they don't stay on because they don't
feel like they've accomplished anything and don't feel useful.
I've been the excited young person in this case, and can think of several
other friends who have as well. In retrospect I think most of us wish we
had said no to the invitation.
I don't think the solution is as simple as "implement their suggestions",
though: not every suggestion will be a good one (none of us, young or old,
have only good ideas).
What I've seen work well is giving people responsibility, especially in
areas where they can quickly learn what makes the dance work. For example,
if your dance has a person who does/oversees setup and/or cleanup, teach
them how to do this. Get them filling out the end-of-dance financial
sheets to figure out who gets what money. If you're putting on a new
one-off event get them on a small committee with 1-2 other friendly
organizers. Then when they propose changes they'll be better ones (less
likely to propose something infeasible) and the changes are more likely to
be well received (in a do-ocracy people respect the people they see putting
in work).
There's also a completely different path, where the enthusiastic young
person gets together a group of people and starts something independent.
They can make their own mistakes, without making more work for people on
the committee. If they want to make their new dance gender-free, half
squares, all open bands + open calling, or something else that might get a
lot of pushback at an existing dance, they can just go ahead and do it.
When these work well they draw a new crowd, pulling from their own networks
instead of mostly drawing people away from the existing dance, and you get
a healthier community with more options.
Jeff
On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 8:49 AM Julian Blechner via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Organizers mailing list --
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
Lots of good suggestions from a lot of people.
I think I can boil down success keeping new dancers to:
1. Listen to youth, put then on your committee, and implement their
suggestions.
2. Have a written values statement, which all of your other policies
follow.
3. Make it clear you want to hear from dancers with compliments or
complaints. And actually deal with complaints. Over and over, the biggest
reason I hear people not returning (other than just not liking the dance
form) is unhandled and ignored complaints.
In dance,
Julian Blechner
On Wed, Mar 15, 2023, 8:10 AM Chrissy Fowler via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
_______________________________________________ *“Getting back to the subject of repeat visitors,
perhaps the biggest
difference of all is a caller who brings the fun and the inclusiveness, the
type who can laugh with you when something goes goofy. (… . ) I'm
tremendously grateful to everyone organizing contra dances, and to all the
people trying to make their dance a little bit better each week.*
*Lex Spoon”*
Hear, hear!
(And I think it’s also the organizers who can bring that fun and
inclusiveness and set the tone for embracing the goofiness.) Let’s face it,
even though some folks forget and take it all a bit too seriously, these
dances we love are *incredibly* weird. Beautifully so, but definitely
on the silly side of joy.
I’m also grateful for all you folks sharing ideas and experiences
openly and nonjudgmentally. What a gift!
Chrissy Fowler
Belfast Maine
*Where we are digging out from the latest nor’easter (ah the joys of
finally getting winter weather in March)*
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
15 Mar
15 Mar
3:19 p.m.
Hi all,
I'm going to explore this intersection of gender-free role terms +
welcoming new dancers + growing community a little bit. [And by "a little
bit" I actually mean a "a long soapbox about important stuff," so hang on
for the ride.]
I'm a genderqueer / gender nonconforming person, and a huge part of my folk
community includes transgender, nonbinary, and other gender nonconforming
folks. If you haven't been paying much attention to the news, let me tell
you: The political and social climate around gender and sexuality in the
United States right now is *terrifying* for LGBTQ+ folks. Twenty-three
states introduced laws in 2022 that infringe or attack the basic rights of
transgender and queer people, and more than 13 of those bills have become
law. There is a ton of hatred, fear, and violence being directed toward the
queer and trans community, especially youth, even in liberal states like
Vermont (where I live).
All this is to say — it's a hard and scary time to be a queer person. And
our dance communities have the potential to be places of radical inclusion,
expansiveness, safety, and welcome in a violent world that seeks to deny us
our basic right to exist.
- When a dance uses gender-free terms, that is a step toward that
radical inclusion.
- When dancers are comfortable and happy to dance with any person in any
role, that's another step. (For example, if you've got a lot of men who
show obvious discomfort at swinging anyone who's not a woman, the dancing
is likely to feel icky and unsafe to trans & nonbinary folks or anyone
swapping roles, regardless of terms used.)
- When we take the time to explain our dance culture as well as the
basic moves, that's another step.
- When we offer nametags with a place to write in pronouns, that's
another step.
- When we offer a sliding scale to make our dance accessible to folks of
all income levels, that's another step.
- When people can see themselves reflected in the organizing committee
members (i.e. diversity of age, gender, class background, race, etc), in a
way that's actually sharing the work and not tokenizing people, that's
another step.
- When long-time dancers ask newcomers to dance in a friendly but not
pushy way, and we normalize saying no as well as saying yes, that's another
step.
- When we normalize giving and receiving feedback about the way our
dancing affects others, that's another step. (i.e. "hey, will you grab my
hand less tightly? that hurts." "oh! thanks for telling me! is that better?)
- When we are transparent about why we're doing what we're doing (i.e.
our values, like Julian suggested), that's another step. When I get up to
give announcements, for example, I thank people for helping to make the
dance welcoming and inclusive, and I speak about our sliding scale, our
name buttons, our role terms, and wearing masks all as pathways to a more
inclusive and welcoming space, as ways that we care for one another.
- (Right now, I am still inclined to think that wearing masks is another
way that we create spaces of radical inclusion and safety, especially for
folks at higher risk for COVID, but that's a whole other kettle of fish.)
On the flip side: If a dance uses gendered role terms, or when organizers
say things like "ugh I don't like Robins & Larks," or "I don't
want to push
the issue," what I hear is:
"we don't care about you,"
"we don't think transgender or nonbinary people exist," or
"you're causing problems for us just by being yourself."
OUCH.
I would gently offer that there is no such thing as a non-political space.
Everything is political, even though you may not have noticed because the
politics weren't affecting you and you were comfortable because the current
setup worked for you. This is a country where people are actively passing
laws that harm transgender and queer people. Choosing NOT to do something
is also a political act.
We set our dance culture together. People will notice the vibes more than
you think. Let's keep striving toward spaces that are deeply welcoming,
growthful, and joyful for everyone! This is part of why I am called to keep
organizing dances: because I can see the power in creating a community that
exists a little bit outside of space and time for a moment, a community
where we get to see the kind of joy, connection, collaboration, and care
that we dream of for society at large. What a delightful, magical thing.
Yours in building joyful, inclusive dance community,
Dana
Montpelier, VT
On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 8:53 AM Julian Blechner via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Lots of good suggestions from a lot of people.
I think I can boil down success keeping new dancers to:
1. Listen to youth, put then on your committee, and implement their
suggestions.
2. Have a written values statement, which all of your other policies
follow.
3. Make it clear you want to hear from dancers with compliments or
complaints. And actually deal with complaints. Over and over, the biggest
reason I hear people not returning (other than just not liking the dance
form) is unhandled and ignored complaints.
In dance,
Julian Blechner
On Wed, Mar 15, 2023, 8:10 AM Chrissy Fowler via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
--
Dana Dwinell-Yardley
pronouns: she/her/hers
802-505-6639
Montpelier, Vermont
*“Getting back to the subject of repeat visitors,
perhaps the biggest
difference of all is a caller who brings the fun and the inclusiveness, the
type who can laugh with you when something goes goofy. (… . ) I'm
tremendously grateful to everyone organizing contra dances, and to all the
people trying to make their dance a little bit better each week.*
*Lex Spoon”*
Hear, hear!
(And I think it’s also the organizers who can bring that fun and
inclusiveness and set the tone for embracing the goofiness.) Let’s face it,
even though some folks forget and take it all a bit too seriously, these
dances we love are *incredibly* weird. Beautifully so, but definitely on
the silly side of joy.
I’m also grateful for all you folks sharing ideas and experiences openly
and nonjudgmentally. What a gift!
Chrissy Fowler
Belfast Maine
*Where we are digging out from the latest nor’easter (ah the joys of
finally getting winter weather in March)*
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
4:01 p.m.
Dana,
Thank you. Well said and I am sharing with my very conservative board. I
think they need a wake up call, forgive me but "either shit or get off the
pot". If we really want our dance to continue we need to address this.
I hope for a better tomorrow for all of us no matter the walk we choose.
Blessings,
Mary "from Buffalo" not.
"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who
couldn't hear the music." - Nietzsche
“Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass ... it's about learning
to dance in the rain!” ~ unknown
On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 11:21 AM Dana Dwinell-Yardley via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Hi all,
I'm going to explore this intersection of gender-free role terms +
welcoming new dancers + growing community a little bit. [And by "a little
bit" I actually mean a "a long soapbox about important stuff," so hang on
for the ride.]
I'm a genderqueer / gender nonconforming person, and a huge part of my
folk community includes transgender, nonbinary, and other gender
nonconforming folks. If you haven't been paying much attention to the news,
let me tell you: The political and social climate around gender and
sexuality in the United States right now is *terrifying* for LGBTQ+ folks.
Twenty-three states introduced laws in 2022 that infringe or attack the
basic rights of transgender and queer people, and more than 13 of those
bills have become law. There is a ton of hatred, fear, and violence being
directed toward the queer and trans community, especially youth, even in
liberal states like Vermont (where I live).
All this is to say — it's a hard and scary time to be a queer person. And
our dance communities have the potential to be places of radical inclusion,
expansiveness, safety, and welcome in a violent world that seeks to deny us
our basic right to exist.
- When a dance uses gender-free terms, that is a step toward that
radical inclusion.
- When dancers are comfortable and happy to dance with any person in
any role, that's another step. (For example, if you've got a lot of men who
show obvious discomfort at swinging anyone who's not a woman, the dancing
is likely to feel icky and unsafe to trans & nonbinary folks or anyone
swapping roles, regardless of terms used.)
- When we take the time to explain our dance culture as well as the
basic moves, that's another step.
- When we offer nametags with a place to write in pronouns, that's
another step.
- When we offer a sliding scale to make our dance accessible to folks
of all income levels, that's another step.
- When people can see themselves reflected in the organizing committee
members (i.e. diversity of age, gender, class background, race, etc), in a
way that's actually sharing the work and not tokenizing people, that's
another step.
- When long-time dancers ask newcomers to dance in a friendly but not
pushy way, and we normalize saying no as well as saying yes, that's another
step.
- When we normalize giving and receiving feedback about the way our
dancing affects others, that's another step. (i.e. "hey, will you grab my
hand less tightly? that hurts." "oh! thanks for telling me! is that
better?)
- When we are transparent about why we're doing what we're doing (i.e.
our values, like Julian suggested), that's another step. When I get up to
give announcements, for example, I thank people for helping to make the
dance welcoming and inclusive, and I speak about our sliding scale, our
name buttons, our role terms, and wearing masks all as pathways to a more
inclusive and welcoming space, as ways that we care for one another.
- (Right now, I am still inclined to think that wearing masks is
another way that we create spaces of radical inclusion and safety,
especially for folks at higher risk for COVID, but that's a whole other
kettle of fish.)
On the flip side: If a dance uses gendered role terms, or when organizers
say things like "ugh I don't like Robins & Larks," or "I don't
want to push
the issue," what I hear is:
"we don't care about you,"
"we don't think transgender or nonbinary people exist," or
"you're causing problems for us just by being yourself."
OUCH.
I would gently offer that there is no such thing as a non-political space.
Everything is political, even though you may not have noticed because the
politics weren't affecting you and you were comfortable because the current
setup worked for you. This is a country where people are actively passing
laws that harm transgender and queer people. Choosing NOT to do something
is also a political act.
We set our dance culture together. People will notice the vibes more than
you think. Let's keep striving toward spaces that are deeply welcoming,
growthful, and joyful for everyone! This is part of why I am called to keep
organizing dances: because I can see the power in creating a community that
exists a little bit outside of space and time for a moment, a community
where we get to see the kind of joy, connection, collaboration, and care
that we dream of for society at large. What a delightful, magical thing.
Yours in building joyful, inclusive dance community,
Dana
Montpelier, VT
On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 8:53 AM Julian Blechner via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Lots of good suggestions from a lot of people.
I think I can boil down success keeping new dancers to:
1. Listen to youth, put then on your committee, and implement their
suggestions.
2. Have a written values statement, which all of your other policies
follow.
3. Make it clear you want to hear from dancers with compliments or
complaints. And actually deal with complaints. Over and over, the biggest
reason I hear people not returning (other than just not liking the dance
form) is unhandled and ignored complaints.
In dance,
Julian Blechner
On Wed, Mar 15, 2023, 8:10 AM Chrissy Fowler via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
--
Dana Dwinell-Yardley
pronouns: she/her/hers
802-505-6639
Montpelier, Vermont
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
*“Getting back to the subject of repeat visitors,
perhaps the biggest
difference of all is a caller who brings the fun and the inclusiveness, the
type who can laugh with you when something goes goofy. (… . ) I'm
tremendously grateful to everyone organizing contra dances, and to all the
people trying to make their dance a little bit better each week.*
*Lex Spoon”*
Hear, hear!
(And I think it’s also the organizers who can bring that fun and
inclusiveness and set the tone for embracing the goofiness.) Let’s face it,
even though some folks forget and take it all a bit too seriously, these
dances we love are *incredibly* weird. Beautifully so, but definitely
on the silly side of joy.
I’m also grateful for all you folks sharing ideas and experiences openly
and nonjudgmentally. What a gift!
Chrissy Fowler
Belfast Maine
*Where we are digging out from the latest nor’easter (ah the joys of
finally getting winter weather in March)*
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
4:22 p.m.
One more soap bubble for the soap box!
We also take a step toward inclusion when we are kind, patient, and
supportive of each other while we learn new things: whether that's learning
how to balance and swing, or learning how to use new pronouns for someone.
It's gonna be awkward at first! That's how learning works! We'll just keep
practicing and improving together.
Dana
On Wed, Mar 15, 2023, 12:02 PM Mary Collins <nativedae(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Dana,
Thank you. Well said and I am sharing with my very conservative board. I
think they need a wake up call, forgive me but "either shit or get off the
pot". If we really want our dance to continue we need to address this.
I hope for a better tomorrow for all of us no matter the walk we choose.
Blessings,
Mary "from Buffalo" not.
"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who
couldn't hear the music." - Nietzsche
“Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass ... it's about learning
to dance in the rain!” ~ unknown
On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 11:21 AM Dana Dwinell-Yardley via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Hi all,
I'm going to explore this intersection of gender-free role terms +
welcoming new dancers + growing community a little bit. [And by "a little
bit" I actually mean a "a long soapbox about important stuff," so hang on
for the ride.]
I'm a genderqueer / gender nonconforming person, and a huge part of my
folk community includes transgender, nonbinary, and other gender
nonconforming folks. If you haven't been paying much attention to the news,
let me tell you: The political and social climate around gender and
sexuality in the United States right now is *terrifying* for LGBTQ+ folks.
Twenty-three states introduced laws in 2022 that infringe or attack the
basic rights of transgender and queer people, and more than 13 of those
bills have become law. There is a ton of hatred, fear, and violence being
directed toward the queer and trans community, especially youth, even in
liberal states like Vermont (where I live).
All this is to say — it's a hard and scary time to be a queer person. And
our dance communities have the potential to be places of radical inclusion,
expansiveness, safety, and welcome in a violent world that seeks to deny us
our basic right to exist.
- When a dance uses gender-free terms, that is a step toward that
radical inclusion.
- When dancers are comfortable and happy to dance with any person in
any role, that's another step. (For example, if you've got a lot of men who
show obvious discomfort at swinging anyone who's not a woman, the dancing
is likely to feel icky and unsafe to trans & nonbinary folks or anyone
swapping roles, regardless of terms used.)
- When we take the time to explain our dance culture as well as the
basic moves, that's another step.
- When we offer nametags with a place to write in pronouns, that's
another step.
- When we offer a sliding scale to make our dance accessible to folks
of all income levels, that's another step.
- When people can see themselves reflected in the organizing
committee members (i.e. diversity of age, gender, class background, race,
etc), in a way that's actually sharing the work and not tokenizing people,
that's another step.
- When long-time dancers ask newcomers to dance in a friendly but not
pushy way, and we normalize saying no as well as saying yes, that's another
step.
- When we normalize giving and receiving feedback about the way our
dancing affects others, that's another step. (i.e. "hey, will you grab my
hand less tightly? that hurts." "oh! thanks for telling me! is that
better?)
- When we are transparent about why we're doing what we're doing
(i.e. our values, like Julian suggested), that's another step. When I get
up to give announcements, for example, I thank people for helping to make
the dance welcoming and inclusive, and I speak about our sliding scale, our
name buttons, our role terms, and wearing masks all as pathways to a more
inclusive and welcoming space, as ways that we care for one another.
- (Right now, I am still inclined to think that wearing masks is
another way that we create spaces of radical inclusion and safety,
especially for folks at higher risk for COVID, but that's a whole other
kettle of fish.)
On the flip side: If a dance uses gendered role terms, or when organizers
say things like "ugh I don't like Robins & Larks," or "I don't
want to push
the issue," what I hear is:
"we don't care about you,"
"we don't think transgender or nonbinary people exist," or
"you're causing problems for us just by being yourself."
OUCH.
I would gently offer that there is no such thing as a non-political
space. Everything is political, even though you may not have noticed
because the politics weren't affecting you and you were comfortable because
the current setup worked for you. This is a country where people are
actively passing laws that harm transgender and queer people. Choosing NOT
to do something is also a political act.
We set our dance culture together. People will notice the vibes more than
you think. Let's keep striving toward spaces that are deeply welcoming,
growthful, and joyful for everyone! This is part of why I am called to keep
organizing dances: because I can see the power in creating a community that
exists a little bit outside of space and time for a moment, a community
where we get to see the kind of joy, connection, collaboration, and care
that we dream of for society at large. What a delightful, magical thing.
Yours in building joyful, inclusive dance community,
Dana
Montpelier, VT
On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 8:53 AM Julian Blechner via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Lots of good suggestions from a lot of people.
I think I can boil down success keeping new dancers to:
1. Listen to youth, put then on your committee, and implement their
suggestions.
2. Have a written values statement, which all of your other policies
follow.
3. Make it clear you want to hear from dancers with compliments or
complaints. And actually deal with complaints. Over and over, the biggest
reason I hear people not returning (other than just not liking the dance
form) is unhandled and ignored complaints.
In dance,
Julian Blechner
On Wed, Mar 15, 2023, 8:10 AM Chrissy Fowler via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
--
Dana Dwinell-Yardley
pronouns: she/her/hers
802-505-6639
Montpelier, Vermont
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
*“Getting back to the subject of repeat visitors,
perhaps the biggest
difference of all is a caller who brings the fun and the inclusiveness, the
type who can laugh with you when something goes goofy. (… . ) I'm
tremendously grateful to everyone organizing contra dances, and to all the
people trying to make their dance a little bit better each week.*
*Lex Spoon”*
Hear, hear!
(And I think it’s also the organizers who can bring that fun and
inclusiveness and set the tone for embracing the goofiness.) Let’s face it,
even though some folks forget and take it all a bit too seriously, these
dances we love are *incredibly* weird. Beautifully so, but definitely
on the silly side of joy.
I’m also grateful for all you folks sharing ideas and experiences
openly and nonjudgmentally. What a gift!
Chrissy Fowler
Belfast Maine
*Where we are digging out from the latest nor’easter (ah the joys of
finally getting winter weather in March)*
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
6:23 p.m.
Dana, this was so clearly articulated and beautifully written! Would you
give permission for people to forward and post it publicly? I feel it
important to ask, as we want this to be a safe place, even if the archives
are searchable.
--jh--
On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 12:23 PM Dana Dwinell-Yardley via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
One more soap bubble for the soap box!
We also take a step toward inclusion when we are kind, patient, and
supportive of each other while we learn new things: whether that's learning
how to balance and swing, or learning how to use new pronouns for someone.
It's gonna be awkward at first! That's how learning works! We'll just keep
practicing and improving together.
Dana
On Wed, Mar 15, 2023, 12:02 PM Mary Collins <nativedae(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Dana,
Thank you. Well said and I am sharing with my very conservative board.
I think they need a wake up call, forgive me but "either shit or get off
the pot". If we really want our dance to continue we need to address this.
I hope for a better tomorrow for all of us no matter the walk we choose.
Blessings,
Mary "from Buffalo" not.
"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who
couldn't hear the music." - Nietzsche
“Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass ... it's about learning
to dance in the rain!” ~ unknown
On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 11:21 AM Dana Dwinell-Yardley via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Organizers mailing list --
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
Hi all,
I'm going to explore this intersection of gender-free role terms +
welcoming new dancers + growing community a little bit. [And by "a little
bit" I actually mean a "a long soapbox about important stuff," so hang on
for the ride.]
I'm a genderqueer / gender nonconforming person, and a huge part of my
folk community includes transgender, nonbinary, and other gender
nonconforming folks. If you haven't been paying much attention to the news,
let me tell you: The political and social climate around gender and
sexuality in the United States right now is *terrifying* for LGBTQ+ folks.
Twenty-three states introduced laws in 2022 that infringe or attack the
basic rights of transgender and queer people, and more than 13 of those
bills have become law. There is a ton of hatred, fear, and violence being
directed toward the queer and trans community, especially youth, even in
liberal states like Vermont (where I live).
All this is to say — it's a hard and scary time to be a queer person.
And our dance communities have the potential to be places of radical
inclusion, expansiveness, safety, and welcome in a violent world that seeks
to deny us our basic right to exist.
- When a dance uses gender-free terms, that is a step toward that
radical inclusion.
- When dancers are comfortable and happy to dance with any person in
any role, that's another step. (For example, if you've got a lot of men who
show obvious discomfort at swinging anyone who's not a woman, the dancing
is likely to feel icky and unsafe to trans & nonbinary folks or anyone
swapping roles, regardless of terms used.)
- When we take the time to explain our dance culture as well as the
basic moves, that's another step.
- When we offer nametags with a place to write in pronouns, that's
another step.
- When we offer a sliding scale to make our dance accessible to
folks of all income levels, that's another step.
- When people can see themselves reflected in the organizing
committee members (i.e. diversity of age, gender, class background, race,
etc), in a way that's actually sharing the work and not tokenizing people,
that's another step.
- When long-time dancers ask newcomers to dance in a friendly but
not pushy way, and we normalize saying no as well as saying yes, that's
another step.
- When we normalize giving and receiving feedback about the way our
dancing affects others, that's another step. (i.e. "hey, will you grab my
hand less tightly? that hurts." "oh! thanks for telling me! is that
better?)
- When we are transparent about why we're doing what we're doing
(i.e. our values, like Julian suggested), that's another step. When I get
up to give announcements, for example, I thank people for helping to make
the dance welcoming and inclusive, and I speak about our sliding scale, our
name buttons, our role terms, and wearing masks all as pathways to a more
inclusive and welcoming space, as ways that we care for one another.
- (Right now, I am still inclined to think that wearing masks is
another way that we create spaces of radical inclusion and safety,
especially for folks at higher risk for COVID, but that's a whole other
kettle of fish.)
On the flip side: If a dance uses gendered role terms, or when
organizers say things like "ugh I don't like Robins & Larks," or
"I don't
want to push the issue," what I hear is:
"we don't care about you,"
"we don't think transgender or nonbinary people exist," or
"you're causing problems for us just by being yourself."
OUCH.
I would gently offer that there is no such thing as a non-political
space. Everything is political, even though you may not have noticed
because the politics weren't affecting you and you were comfortable because
the current setup worked for you. This is a country where people are
actively passing laws that harm transgender and queer people. Choosing NOT
to do something is also a political act.
We set our dance culture together. People will notice the vibes more
than you think. Let's keep striving toward spaces that are deeply
welcoming, growthful, and joyful for everyone! This is part of why I am
called to keep organizing dances: because I can see the power in creating a
community that exists a little bit outside of space and time for a moment,
a community where we get to see the kind of joy, connection, collaboration,
and care that we dream of for society at large. What a delightful, magical
thing.
Yours in building joyful, inclusive dance community,
Dana
Montpelier, VT
On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 8:53 AM Julian Blechner via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
_______________________________________________ Lots of good suggestions from a lot of people.
I think I can boil down success keeping new dancers to:
1. Listen to youth, put then on your committee, and implement their
suggestions.
2. Have a written values statement, which all of your other policies
follow.
3. Make it clear you want to hear from dancers with compliments or
complaints. And actually deal with complaints. Over and over, the biggest
reason I hear people not returning (other than just not liking the dance
form) is unhandled and ignored complaints.
In dance,
Julian Blechner
On Wed, Mar 15, 2023, 8:10 AM Chrissy Fowler via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> *“Getting back to the subject of repeat visitors, perhaps the biggest
> difference of all is a caller who brings the fun and the inclusiveness, the
> type who can laugh with you when something goes goofy. (… . ) I'm
> tremendously grateful to everyone organizing contra dances, and to all the
> people trying to make their dance a little bit better each week.*
> *Lex Spoon”*
>
> Hear, hear!
>
> (And I think it’s also the organizers who can bring that fun and
> inclusiveness and set the tone for embracing the goofiness.) Let’s face it,
> even though some folks forget and take it all a bit too seriously, these
> dances we love are *incredibly* weird. Beautifully so, but definitely
> on the silly side of joy.
>
> I’m also grateful for all you folks sharing ideas and experiences
> openly and nonjudgmentally. What a gift!
>
> Chrissy Fowler
> Belfast Maine
> *Where we are digging out from the latest nor’easter (ah the joys of
> finally getting winter weather in March)*
> _______________________________________________
> Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> To unsubscribe send an email to
> organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
--
Dana Dwinell-Yardley
pronouns: she/her/hers
802-505-6639
Montpelier, Vermont
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
7:02 p.m.
Sure, happy for anyone to forward and distribute. I added my extra soap
bubble into my original text and pasted it below: feel free to send this
version around.
Thanks for the kind words.
Dana
==
Hi all,
I'm going to explore this intersection of gender-free role terms +
welcoming new dancers + growing community a little bit. [And by "a little
bit" I actually mean a "a long soapbox about important stuff," so hang on
for the ride.]
I'm a genderqueer / gender nonconforming person, and a huge part of my folk
community includes transgender, nonbinary, and other gender nonconforming
folks. If you haven't been paying much attention to the news, let me tell
you: The political and social climate around gender and sexuality in the
United States right now is *terrifying* for LGBTQ+ folks. Twenty-three
states introduced laws in 2022 that infringe or attack the basic rights of
transgender and queer people, and more than 13 of those bills have become
law. There is a ton of hatred, fear, and violence being directed toward the
queer and trans community, especially youth, even in liberal states like
Vermont (where I live).
All this is to say — it's a hard and scary time to be a queer person. And
our dance communities have the potential to be places of radical inclusion,
expansiveness, safety, and welcome in a violent world that seeks to deny us
our basic right to exist.
- When a dance uses gender-free terms, that is a step toward that
radical inclusion.
- When dancers are comfortable and happy to dance with any person in any
role, that's another step. (For example, if you've got a lot of men who
show obvious discomfort at swinging anyone who's not a woman, the dancing
is likely to feel icky and unsafe to trans & nonbinary folks or anyone
swapping roles, regardless of terms used.)
- When we take the time to explain our dance culture as well as the
basic moves, that's another step.
- When we offer nametags with a place to write in pronouns, that's
another step.
- When we offer a sliding scale to make our dance accessible to folks of
all income levels, that's another step.
- When people can see themselves reflected in the organizing committee
members (i.e. diversity of age, gender, class background, race, etc), in a
way that's actually sharing the work and not tokenizing people, that's
another step.
- When long-time dancers ask newcomers to dance in a friendly but not
pushy way, and we normalize saying no as well as saying yes, that's another
step.
- When we normalize giving and receiving feedback about the way our
dancing affects others, that's another step. (i.e. "hey, will you grab my
hand less tightly? that hurts." "oh! thanks for telling me! is that better?)
- When we are kind, patient, and supportive of each other while we learn
new things, that's another step. Whether it's learning how to balance and
swing, or learning how to use new pronouns for someone, it's gonna be
awkward at first! That's how learning works! We'll just keep practicing
together.
- When we are transparent about why we're doing what we're doing (i.e.
our values, like Julian suggested), that's another step. When I get up to
give announcements, for example, I thank people for helping to make the
dance welcoming and inclusive, and I speak about our sliding scale, our
name buttons, our role terms, and wearing masks all as pathways to a more
inclusive and welcoming space, as ways that we care for one another.
- (Right now, I am still inclined to think that wearing masks is another
way that we create spaces of radical inclusion and safety, especially for
folks at higher risk for COVID, but that's a whole other kettle of fish.)
On the flip side: If a dance uses gendered role terms, or when organizers
say things like "ugh I don't like Robins & Larks," or "I don't
want to push
the issue," what I hear is:
"we don't care about you,"
"we don't think transgender or nonbinary people exist," or
"you're causing problems for us just by being yourself."
OUCH.
I would gently offer that there is no such thing as a non-political space.
Everything is political, even though you may not have noticed because you
were comfortable and the current setup worked for you. This is a country
where people are actively passing laws that harm transgender and queer
people. Choosing NOT to do something is also a political act.
We set our dance culture together. People will notice the vibes more than
you think. Let's keep striving toward spaces that are deeply welcoming,
growthful, and joyful for everyone! This is part of why I am called to keep
organizing dances: because I can see the power in creating a community that
exists a little bit outside of space and time for a moment, a community
where we get to see the kind of joy, connection, collaboration, and care
that we dream of for society at large. What a delightful, magical thing.
Yours in building joyful, inclusive dance community,
Dana Dwinell-Yardley
Montpelier, VT
danadwya(a)gmail.com
On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 2:24 PM Joe Harrington <contradancerjoe(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Dana, this was so clearly articulated and beautifully
written! Would you
give permission for people to forward and post it publicly? I feel it
important to ask, as we want this to be a safe place, even if the archives
are searchable.
--jh--
On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 12:23 PM Dana Dwinell-Yardley via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
--
Dana Dwinell-Yardley
pronouns: she/her/hers
802-505-6639
Montpelier, Vermont
One more soap bubble for the soap box!
We also take a step toward inclusion when we are kind, patient, and
supportive of each other while we learn new things: whether that's learning
how to balance and swing, or learning how to use new pronouns for someone.
It's gonna be awkward at first! That's how learning works! We'll just keep
practicing and improving together.
Dana
On Wed, Mar 15, 2023, 12:02 PM Mary Collins <nativedae(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Dana,
Thank you. Well said and I am sharing with my very conservative board.
I think they need a wake up call, forgive me but "either shit or get off
the pot". If we really want our dance to continue we need to address this.
I hope for a better tomorrow for all of us no matter the walk we choose.
Blessings,
Mary "from Buffalo" not.
"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who
couldn't hear the music." - Nietzsche
“Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass ... it's about
learning to dance in the rain!” ~ unknown
On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 11:21 AM Dana Dwinell-Yardley via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Organizers mailing list --
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
Hi all,
I'm going to explore this intersection of gender-free role terms +
welcoming new dancers + growing community a little bit. [And by "a little
bit" I actually mean a "a long soapbox about important stuff," so hang on
for the ride.]
I'm a genderqueer / gender nonconforming person, and a huge part of my
folk community includes transgender, nonbinary, and other gender
nonconforming folks. If you haven't been paying much attention to the news,
let me tell you: The political and social climate around gender and
sexuality in the United States right now is *terrifying* for LGBTQ+ folks.
Twenty-three states introduced laws in 2022 that infringe or attack the
basic rights of transgender and queer people, and more than 13 of those
bills have become law. There is a ton of hatred, fear, and violence being
directed toward the queer and trans community, especially youth, even in
liberal states like Vermont (where I live).
All this is to say — it's a hard and scary time to be a queer person.
And our dance communities have the potential to be places of radical
inclusion, expansiveness, safety, and welcome in a violent world that seeks
to deny us our basic right to exist.
- When a dance uses gender-free terms, that is a step toward that
radical inclusion.
- When dancers are comfortable and happy to dance with any person
in any role, that's another step. (For example, if you've got a lot of men
who show obvious discomfort at swinging anyone who's not a woman, the
dancing is likely to feel icky and unsafe to trans & nonbinary folks or
anyone swapping roles, regardless of terms used.)
- When we take the time to explain our dance culture as well as the
basic moves, that's another step.
- When we offer nametags with a place to write in pronouns, that's
another step.
- When we offer a sliding scale to make our dance accessible to
folks of all income levels, that's another step.
- When people can see themselves reflected in the organizing
committee members (i.e. diversity of age, gender, class background, race,
etc), in a way that's actually sharing the work and not tokenizing people,
that's another step.
- When long-time dancers ask newcomers to dance in a friendly but
not pushy way, and we normalize saying no as well as saying yes, that's
another step.
- When we normalize giving and receiving feedback about the way our
dancing affects others, that's another step. (i.e. "hey, will you grab my
hand less tightly? that hurts." "oh! thanks for telling me! is that
better?)
- When we are transparent about why we're doing what we're doing
(i.e. our values, like Julian suggested), that's another step. When I get
up to give announcements, for example, I thank people for helping to make
the dance welcoming and inclusive, and I speak about our sliding scale, our
name buttons, our role terms, and wearing masks all as pathways to a more
inclusive and welcoming space, as ways that we care for one another.
- (Right now, I am still inclined to think that wearing masks is
another way that we create spaces of radical inclusion and safety,
especially for folks at higher risk for COVID, but that's a whole other
kettle of fish.)
On the flip side: If a dance uses gendered role terms, or when
organizers say things like "ugh I don't like Robins & Larks," or
"I don't
want to push the issue," what I hear is:
"we don't care about you,"
"we don't think transgender or nonbinary people exist," or
"you're causing problems for us just by being yourself."
OUCH.
I would gently offer that there is no such thing as a non-political
space. Everything is political, even though you may not have noticed
because the politics weren't affecting you and you were comfortable because
the current setup worked for you. This is a country where people are
actively passing laws that harm transgender and queer people. Choosing NOT
to do something is also a political act.
We set our dance culture together. People will notice the vibes more
than you think. Let's keep striving toward spaces that are deeply
welcoming, growthful, and joyful for everyone! This is part of why I am
called to keep organizing dances: because I can see the power in creating a
community that exists a little bit outside of space and time for a moment,
a community where we get to see the kind of joy, connection, collaboration,
and care that we dream of for society at large. What a delightful, magical
thing.
Yours in building joyful, inclusive dance community,
Dana
Montpelier, VT
On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 8:53 AM Julian Blechner via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> Lots of good suggestions from a lot of people.
>
> I think I can boil down success keeping new dancers to:
> 1. Listen to youth, put then on your committee, and implement their
> suggestions.
> 2. Have a written values statement, which all of your other policies
> follow.
> 3. Make it clear you want to hear from dancers with compliments or
> complaints. And actually deal with complaints. Over and over, the biggest
> reason I hear people not returning (other than just not liking the dance
> form) is unhandled and ignored complaints.
>
> In dance,
> Julian Blechner
>
> On Wed, Mar 15, 2023, 8:10 AM Chrissy Fowler via Organizers <
> organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> *“Getting back to the subject of repeat visitors, perhaps the biggest
>> difference of all is a caller who brings the fun and the inclusiveness, the
>> type who can laugh with you when something goes goofy. (… . ) I'm
>> tremendously grateful to everyone organizing contra dances, and to all the
>> people trying to make their dance a little bit better each week.*
>> *Lex Spoon”*
>>
>> Hear, hear!
>>
>> (And I think it’s also the organizers who can bring that fun and
>> inclusiveness and set the tone for embracing the goofiness.) Let’s face it,
>> even though some folks forget and take it all a bit too seriously, these
>> dances we love are *incredibly* weird. Beautifully so, but
>> definitely on the silly side of joy.
>>
>> I’m also grateful for all you folks sharing ideas and experiences
>> openly and nonjudgmentally. What a gift!
>>
>> Chrissy Fowler
>> Belfast Maine
>> *Where we are digging out from the latest nor’easter (ah the joys of
>> finally getting winter weather in March)*
>> _______________________________________________
>> Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> To unsubscribe send an email to
>> organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> To unsubscribe send an email to
> organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>
--
Dana Dwinell-Yardley
pronouns: she/her/hers
802-505-6639
Montpelier, Vermont
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
_______________________________________________
16 Mar
16 Mar
2:10 a.m.
Dana,
Thank you for candidly challenging our situation and sharing from your
heart and experience. I will reflect on your words and share them with
others. Having a first hand account of the difficulties and dangers of
being nonbinary helps put this issue in perspective. My fear is that
forcing change before more people are ready will create a backlash and
resentment. It feels to me that we need to convince and educate a critical
mass of people in order for the change to be accepted. Your words will be
an effective tool for our evolution. I like "Loves" and "Gems". I
would
call my romantic partner either of those terms.
On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 2:05 PM Dana Dwinell-Yardley via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Sure, happy for anyone to forward and distribute. I
added my extra soap
bubble into my original text and pasted it below: feel free to send this
version around.
Thanks for the kind words.
Dana
==
Hi all,
I'm going to explore this intersection of gender-free role terms +
welcoming new dancers + growing community a little bit. [And by "a little
bit" I actually mean a "a long soapbox about important stuff," so hang on
for the ride.]
I'm a genderqueer / gender nonconforming person, and a huge part of my
folk community includes transgender, nonbinary, and other gender
nonconforming folks. If you haven't been paying much attention to the news,
let me tell you: The political and social climate around gender and
sexuality in the United States right now is *terrifying* for LGBTQ+ folks.
Twenty-three states introduced laws in 2022 that infringe or attack the
basic rights of transgender and queer people, and more than 13 of those
bills have become law. There is a ton of hatred, fear, and violence being
directed toward the queer and trans community, especially youth, even in
liberal states like Vermont (where I live).
All this is to say — it's a hard and scary time to be a queer person. And
our dance communities have the potential to be places of radical inclusion,
expansiveness, safety, and welcome in a violent world that seeks to deny us
our basic right to exist.
- When a dance uses gender-free terms, that is a step toward that
radical inclusion.
- When dancers are comfortable and happy to dance with any person in
any role, that's another step. (For example, if you've got a lot of men who
show obvious discomfort at swinging anyone who's not a woman, the dancing
is likely to feel icky and unsafe to trans & nonbinary folks or anyone
swapping roles, regardless of terms used.)
- When we take the time to explain our dance culture as well as the
basic moves, that's another step.
- When we offer nametags with a place to write in pronouns, that's
another step.
- When we offer a sliding scale to make our dance accessible to folks
of all income levels, that's another step.
- When people can see themselves reflected in the organizing committee
members (i.e. diversity of age, gender, class background, race, etc), in a
way that's actually sharing the work and not tokenizing people, that's
another step.
- When long-time dancers ask newcomers to dance in a friendly but not
pushy way, and we normalize saying no as well as saying yes, that's another
step.
- When we normalize giving and receiving feedback about the way our
dancing affects others, that's another step. (i.e. "hey, will you grab my
hand less tightly? that hurts." "oh! thanks for telling me! is that
better?)
- When we are kind, patient, and supportive of each other while we
learn new things, that's another step. Whether it's learning how to balance
and swing, or learning how to use new pronouns for someone, it's gonna be
awkward at first! That's how learning works! We'll just keep practicing
together.
- When we are transparent about why we're doing what we're doing (i.e.
our values, like Julian suggested), that's another step. When I get up to
give announcements, for example, I thank people for helping to make the
dance welcoming and inclusive, and I speak about our sliding scale, our
name buttons, our role terms, and wearing masks all as pathways to a more
inclusive and welcoming space, as ways that we care for one another.
- (Right now, I am still inclined to think that wearing masks is
another way that we create spaces of radical inclusion and safety,
especially for folks at higher risk for COVID, but that's a whole other
kettle of fish.)
On the flip side: If a dance uses gendered role terms, or when organizers
say things like "ugh I don't like Robins & Larks," or "I don't
want to push
the issue," what I hear is:
"we don't care about you,"
"we don't think transgender or nonbinary people exist," or
"you're causing problems for us just by being yourself."
OUCH.
I would gently offer that there is no such thing as a non-political space.
Everything is political, even though you may not have noticed because you
were comfortable and the current setup worked for you. This is a country
where people are actively passing laws that harm transgender and queer
people. Choosing NOT to do something is also a political act.
We set our dance culture together. People will notice the vibes more than
you think. Let's keep striving toward spaces that are deeply welcoming,
growthful, and joyful for everyone! This is part of why I am called to keep
organizing dances: because I can see the power in creating a community that
exists a little bit outside of space and time for a moment, a community
where we get to see the kind of joy, connection, collaboration, and care
that we dream of for society at large. What a delightful, magical thing.
Yours in building joyful, inclusive dance community,
Dana Dwinell-Yardley
Montpelier, VT
danadwya(a)gmail.com
On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 2:24 PM Joe Harrington <contradancerjoe(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Dana, this was so clearly articulated and
beautifully written! Would you
give permission for people to forward and post it publicly? I feel it
important to ask, as we want this to be a safe place, even if the archives
are searchable.
--jh--
On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 12:23 PM Dana Dwinell-Yardley via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
--
Dana Dwinell-Yardley
pronouns: she/her/hers
802-505-6639
Montpelier, Vermont
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
One more soap bubble for the soap box!
We also take a step toward inclusion when we are kind, patient, and
supportive of each other while we learn new things: whether that's learning
how to balance and swing, or learning how to use new pronouns for someone.
It's gonna be awkward at first! That's how learning works! We'll just keep
practicing and improving together.
Dana
On Wed, Mar 15, 2023, 12:02 PM Mary Collins <nativedae(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Dana,
Thank you. Well said and I am sharing with my very conservative
board. I think they need a wake up call, forgive me but "either shit or
get off the pot". If we really want our dance to continue we need to
address this.
I hope for a better tomorrow for all of us no matter the walk we choose.
Blessings,
Mary "from Buffalo" not.
"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who
couldn't hear the music." - Nietzsche
“Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass ... it's about
learning to dance in the rain!” ~ unknown
On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 11:21 AM Dana Dwinell-Yardley via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I'm going to explore this intersection of gender-free role terms +
> welcoming new dancers + growing community a little bit. [And by "a little
> bit" I actually mean a "a long soapbox about important stuff," so hang
on
> for the ride.]
>
> I'm a genderqueer / gender nonconforming person, and a huge part of my
> folk community includes transgender, nonbinary, and other gender
> nonconforming folks. If you haven't been paying much attention to the news,
> let me tell you: The political and social climate around gender and
> sexuality in the United States right now is *terrifying* for LGBTQ+ folks.
> Twenty-three states introduced laws in 2022 that infringe or attack the
> basic rights of transgender and queer people, and more than 13 of those
> bills have become law. There is a ton of hatred, fear, and violence being
> directed toward the queer and trans community, especially youth, even in
> liberal states like Vermont (where I live).
>
> All this is to say — it's a hard and scary time to be a queer person.
> And our dance communities have the potential to be places of radical
> inclusion, expansiveness, safety, and welcome in a violent world that seeks
> to deny us our basic right to exist.
>
> - When a dance uses gender-free terms, that is a step toward that
> radical inclusion.
> - When dancers are comfortable and happy to dance with any person
> in any role, that's another step. (For example, if you've got a lot of
men
> who show obvious discomfort at swinging anyone who's not a woman, the
> dancing is likely to feel icky and unsafe to trans & nonbinary folks or
> anyone swapping roles, regardless of terms used.)
> - When we take the time to explain our dance culture as well as
> the basic moves, that's another step.
> - When we offer nametags with a place to write in pronouns, that's
> another step.
> - When we offer a sliding scale to make our dance accessible to
> folks of all income levels, that's another step.
> - When people can see themselves reflected in the organizing
> committee members (i.e. diversity of age, gender, class background, race,
> etc), in a way that's actually sharing the work and not tokenizing people,
> that's another step.
> - When long-time dancers ask newcomers to dance in a friendly but
> not pushy way, and we normalize saying no as well as saying yes, that's
> another step.
> - When we normalize giving and receiving feedback about the way
> our dancing affects others, that's another step. (i.e. "hey, will you
grab
> my hand less tightly? that hurts." "oh! thanks for telling me! is that
> better?)
> - When we are transparent about why we're doing what we're doing
> (i.e. our values, like Julian suggested), that's another step. When I get
> up to give announcements, for example, I thank people for helping to make
> the dance welcoming and inclusive, and I speak about our sliding scale, our
> name buttons, our role terms, and wearing masks all as pathways to a more
> inclusive and welcoming space, as ways that we care for one another.
> - (Right now, I am still inclined to think that wearing masks is
> another way that we create spaces of radical inclusion and safety,
> especially for folks at higher risk for COVID, but that's a whole other
> kettle of fish.)
>
> On the flip side: If a dance uses gendered role terms, or when
> organizers say things like "ugh I don't like Robins & Larks," or
"I don't
> want to push the issue," what I hear is:
> "we don't care about you,"
> "we don't think transgender or nonbinary people exist," or
> "you're causing problems for us just by being yourself."
> OUCH.
>
> I would gently offer that there is no such thing as a non-political
> space. Everything is political, even though you may not have noticed
> because the politics weren't affecting you and you were comfortable because
> the current setup worked for you. This is a country where people are
> actively passing laws that harm transgender and queer people. Choosing NOT
> to do something is also a political act.
>
> We set our dance culture together. People will notice the vibes more
> than you think. Let's keep striving toward spaces that are deeply
> welcoming, growthful, and joyful for everyone! This is part of why I am
> called to keep organizing dances: because I can see the power in creating a
> community that exists a little bit outside of space and time for a moment,
> a community where we get to see the kind of joy, connection, collaboration,
> and care that we dream of for society at large. What a delightful, magical
> thing.
>
> Yours in building joyful, inclusive dance community,
> Dana
> Montpelier, VT
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 8:53 AM Julian Blechner via Organizers <
> organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> Lots of good suggestions from a lot of people.
>>
>> I think I can boil down success keeping new dancers to:
>> 1. Listen to youth, put then on your committee, and implement their
>> suggestions.
>> 2. Have a written values statement, which all of your other policies
>> follow.
>> 3. Make it clear you want to hear from dancers with compliments or
>> complaints. And actually deal with complaints. Over and over, the biggest
>> reason I hear people not returning (other than just not liking the dance
>> form) is unhandled and ignored complaints.
>>
>> In dance,
>> Julian Blechner
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 15, 2023, 8:10 AM Chrissy Fowler via Organizers <
>> organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>
>>> *“Getting back to the subject of repeat visitors, perhaps the
>>> biggest difference of all is a caller who brings the fun and the
>>> inclusiveness, the type who can laugh with you when something goes goofy.
>>> (… . ) I'm tremendously grateful to everyone organizing contra dances,
>>> and to all the people trying to make their dance a little bit better each
>>> week.*
>>> *Lex Spoon”*
>>>
>>> Hear, hear!
>>>
>>> (And I think it’s also the organizers who can bring that fun and
>>> inclusiveness and set the tone for embracing the goofiness.) Let’s face it,
>>> even though some folks forget and take it all a bit too seriously, these
>>> dances we love are *incredibly* weird. Beautifully so, but
>>> definitely on the silly side of joy.
>>>
>>> I’m also grateful for all you folks sharing ideas and experiences
>>> openly and nonjudgmentally. What a gift!
>>>
>>> Chrissy Fowler
>>> Belfast Maine
>>> *Where we are digging out from the latest nor’easter (ah the joys of
>>> finally getting winter weather in March)*
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>> To unsubscribe send an email to
>>> organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> To unsubscribe send an email to
>> organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>
>
>
> --
> Dana Dwinell-Yardley
> pronouns: she/her/hers
> 802-505-6639
> Montpelier, Vermont
> _______________________________________________
> Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> To unsubscribe send an email to
> organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list --
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
2:15 a.m.
Dana,
Thank you for candidly challenging our situation and sharing from your
heart and experience. I will reflect on your words and share them with
others. Having a first hand account of the difficulties and dangers of
being nonbinary helps put this issue in perspective. My fear is that
forcing change before more people are ready will create a backlash and
resentment. It feels to me that we need to convince and educate a critical
mass of people in order for the change to be accepted. Your words will be
an effective tool for our evolution.
On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 9:10 PM Sandy Seiler <sandyjaneseiler(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Dana,
Thank you for candidly challenging our situation and sharing from your
heart and experience. I will reflect on your words and share them with
others. Having a first hand account of the difficulties and dangers of
being nonbinary helps put this issue in perspective. My fear is that
forcing change before more people are ready will create a backlash and
resentment. It feels to me that we need to convince and educate a critical
mass of people in order for the change to be accepted. Your words will be
an effective tool for our evolution. I like "Loves" and "Gems". I
would
call my romantic partner either of those terms.
On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 2:05 PM Dana Dwinell-Yardley via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Sure, happy for anyone to forward and distribute.
I added my extra soap
bubble into my original text and pasted it below: feel free to send this
version around.
Thanks for the kind words.
Dana
==
Hi all,
I'm going to explore this intersection of gender-free role terms +
welcoming new dancers + growing community a little bit. [And by "a little
bit" I actually mean a "a long soapbox about important stuff," so hang on
for the ride.]
I'm a genderqueer / gender nonconforming person, and a huge part of my
folk community includes transgender, nonbinary, and other gender
nonconforming folks. If you haven't been paying much attention to the news,
let me tell you: The political and social climate around gender and
sexuality in the United States right now is *terrifying* for LGBTQ+ folks.
Twenty-three states introduced laws in 2022 that infringe or attack the
basic rights of transgender and queer people, and more than 13 of those
bills have become law. There is a ton of hatred, fear, and violence being
directed toward the queer and trans community, especially youth, even in
liberal states like Vermont (where I live).
All this is to say — it's a hard and scary time to be a queer person. And
our dance communities have the potential to be places of radical inclusion,
expansiveness, safety, and welcome in a violent world that seeks to deny us
our basic right to exist.
- When a dance uses gender-free terms, that is a step toward that
radical inclusion.
- When dancers are comfortable and happy to dance with any person in
any role, that's another step. (For example, if you've got a lot of men who
show obvious discomfort at swinging anyone who's not a woman, the dancing
is likely to feel icky and unsafe to trans & nonbinary folks or anyone
swapping roles, regardless of terms used.)
- When we take the time to explain our dance culture as well as the
basic moves, that's another step.
- When we offer nametags with a place to write in pronouns, that's
another step.
- When we offer a sliding scale to make our dance accessible to folks
of all income levels, that's another step.
- When people can see themselves reflected in the organizing
committee members (i.e. diversity of age, gender, class background, race,
etc), in a way that's actually sharing the work and not tokenizing people,
that's another step.
- When long-time dancers ask newcomers to dance in a friendly but not
pushy way, and we normalize saying no as well as saying yes, that's another
step.
- When we normalize giving and receiving feedback about the way our
dancing affects others, that's another step. (i.e. "hey, will you grab my
hand less tightly? that hurts." "oh! thanks for telling me! is that
better?)
- When we are kind, patient, and supportive of each other while we
learn new things, that's another step. Whether it's learning how to balance
and swing, or learning how to use new pronouns for someone, it's gonna be
awkward at first! That's how learning works! We'll just keep practicing
together.
- When we are transparent about why we're doing what we're doing
(i.e. our values, like Julian suggested), that's another step. When I get
up to give announcements, for example, I thank people for helping to make
the dance welcoming and inclusive, and I speak about our sliding scale, our
name buttons, our role terms, and wearing masks all as pathways to a more
inclusive and welcoming space, as ways that we care for one another.
- (Right now, I am still inclined to think that wearing masks is
another way that we create spaces of radical inclusion and safety,
especially for folks at higher risk for COVID, but that's a whole other
kettle of fish.)
On the flip side: If a dance uses gendered role terms, or when organizers
say things like "ugh I don't like Robins & Larks," or "I don't
want to push
the issue," what I hear is:
"we don't care about you,"
"we don't think transgender or nonbinary people exist," or
"you're causing problems for us just by being yourself."
OUCH.
I would gently offer that there is no such thing as a non-political
space. Everything is political, even though you may not have noticed
because you were comfortable and the current setup worked for you. This is
a country where people are actively passing laws that harm transgender and
queer people. Choosing NOT to do something is also a political act.
We set our dance culture together. People will notice the vibes more than
you think. Let's keep striving toward spaces that are deeply welcoming,
growthful, and joyful for everyone! This is part of why I am called to keep
organizing dances: because I can see the power in creating a community that
exists a little bit outside of space and time for a moment, a community
where we get to see the kind of joy, connection, collaboration, and care
that we dream of for society at large. What a delightful, magical thing.
Yours in building joyful, inclusive dance community,
Dana Dwinell-Yardley
Montpelier, VT
danadwya(a)gmail.com
On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 2:24 PM Joe Harrington <contradancerjoe(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Dana, this was so clearly articulated and
beautifully written! Would
you give permission for people to forward and post it publicly? I feel it
important to ask, as we want this to be a safe place, even if the archives
are searchable.
--jh--
On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 12:23 PM Dana Dwinell-Yardley via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
--
Dana Dwinell-Yardley
pronouns: she/her/hers
802-505-6639
Montpelier, Vermont
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
One more soap bubble for the soap box!
We also take a step toward inclusion when we are kind, patient, and
supportive of each other while we learn new things: whether that's learning
how to balance and swing, or learning how to use new pronouns for someone.
It's gonna be awkward at first! That's how learning works! We'll just keep
practicing and improving together.
Dana
On Wed, Mar 15, 2023, 12:02 PM Mary Collins <nativedae(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
> Dana,
>
> Thank you. Well said and I am sharing with my very conservative
> board. I think they need a wake up call, forgive me but "either shit or
> get off the pot". If we really want our dance to continue we need to
> address this.
>
> I hope for a better tomorrow for all of us no matter the walk
> we choose.
>
> Blessings,
> Mary "from Buffalo" not.
> "And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those
> who couldn't hear the music." - Nietzsche
>
> “Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass ... it's about
> learning to dance in the rain!” ~ unknown
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 11:21 AM Dana Dwinell-Yardley via Organizers <
> organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I'm going to explore this intersection of gender-free role terms +
>> welcoming new dancers + growing community a little bit. [And by "a little
>> bit" I actually mean a "a long soapbox about important stuff," so
hang on
>> for the ride.]
>>
>> I'm a genderqueer / gender nonconforming person, and a huge part of
>> my folk community includes transgender, nonbinary, and other gender
>> nonconforming folks. If you haven't been paying much attention to the news,
>> let me tell you: The political and social climate around gender and
>> sexuality in the United States right now is *terrifying* for LGBTQ+ folks.
>> Twenty-three states introduced laws in 2022 that infringe or attack the
>> basic rights of transgender and queer people, and more than 13 of those
>> bills have become law. There is a ton of hatred, fear, and violence being
>> directed toward the queer and trans community, especially youth, even in
>> liberal states like Vermont (where I live).
>>
>> All this is to say — it's a hard and scary time to be a queer person.
>> And our dance communities have the potential to be places of radical
>> inclusion, expansiveness, safety, and welcome in a violent world that seeks
>> to deny us our basic right to exist.
>>
>> - When a dance uses gender-free terms, that is a step toward that
>> radical inclusion.
>> - When dancers are comfortable and happy to dance with any person
>> in any role, that's another step. (For example, if you've got a lot of
men
>> who show obvious discomfort at swinging anyone who's not a woman, the
>> dancing is likely to feel icky and unsafe to trans & nonbinary folks or
>> anyone swapping roles, regardless of terms used.)
>> - When we take the time to explain our dance culture as well as
>> the basic moves, that's another step.
>> - When we offer nametags with a place to write in pronouns,
>> that's another step.
>> - When we offer a sliding scale to make our dance accessible to
>> folks of all income levels, that's another step.
>> - When people can see themselves reflected in the organizing
>> committee members (i.e. diversity of age, gender, class background, race,
>> etc), in a way that's actually sharing the work and not tokenizing
people,
>> that's another step.
>> - When long-time dancers ask newcomers to dance in a friendly but
>> not pushy way, and we normalize saying no as well as saying yes, that's
>> another step.
>> - When we normalize giving and receiving feedback about the way
>> our dancing affects others, that's another step. (i.e. "hey, will you
grab
>> my hand less tightly? that hurts." "oh! thanks for telling me! is
that
>> better?)
>> - When we are transparent about why we're doing what we're doing
>> (i.e. our values, like Julian suggested), that's another step. When I get
>> up to give announcements, for example, I thank people for helping to make
>> the dance welcoming and inclusive, and I speak about our sliding scale, our
>> name buttons, our role terms, and wearing masks all as pathways to a more
>> inclusive and welcoming space, as ways that we care for one another.
>> - (Right now, I am still inclined to think that wearing masks is
>> another way that we create spaces of radical inclusion and safety,
>> especially for folks at higher risk for COVID, but that's a whole other
>> kettle of fish.)
>>
>> On the flip side: If a dance uses gendered role terms, or when
>> organizers say things like "ugh I don't like Robins & Larks,"
or "I don't
>> want to push the issue," what I hear is:
>> "we don't care about you,"
>> "we don't think transgender or nonbinary people exist," or
>> "you're causing problems for us just by being yourself."
>> OUCH.
>>
>> I would gently offer that there is no such thing as a non-political
>> space. Everything is political, even though you may not have noticed
>> because the politics weren't affecting you and you were comfortable because
>> the current setup worked for you. This is a country where people are
>> actively passing laws that harm transgender and queer people. Choosing NOT
>> to do something is also a political act.
>>
>> We set our dance culture together. People will notice the vibes more
>> than you think. Let's keep striving toward spaces that are deeply
>> welcoming, growthful, and joyful for everyone! This is part of why I am
>> called to keep organizing dances: because I can see the power in creating a
>> community that exists a little bit outside of space and time for a moment,
>> a community where we get to see the kind of joy, connection, collaboration,
>> and care that we dream of for society at large. What a delightful, magical
>> thing.
>>
>> Yours in building joyful, inclusive dance community,
>> Dana
>> Montpelier, VT
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 8:53 AM Julian Blechner via Organizers <
>> organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Lots of good suggestions from a lot of people.
>>>
>>> I think I can boil down success keeping new dancers to:
>>> 1. Listen to youth, put then on your committee, and implement their
>>> suggestions.
>>> 2. Have a written values statement, which all of your other policies
>>> follow.
>>> 3. Make it clear you want to hear from dancers with compliments or
>>> complaints. And actually deal with complaints. Over and over, the biggest
>>> reason I hear people not returning (other than just not liking the dance
>>> form) is unhandled and ignored complaints.
>>>
>>> In dance,
>>> Julian Blechner
>>>
>>> On Wed, Mar 15, 2023, 8:10 AM Chrissy Fowler via Organizers <
>>> organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> *“Getting back to the subject of repeat visitors, perhaps the
>>>> biggest difference of all is a caller who brings the fun and the
>>>> inclusiveness, the type who can laugh with you when something goes
goofy.
>>>> (… . ) I'm tremendously grateful to everyone organizing contra
dances,
>>>> and to all the people trying to make their dance a little bit better
each
>>>> week.*
>>>> *Lex Spoon”*
>>>>
>>>> Hear, hear!
>>>>
>>>> (And I think it’s also the organizers who can bring that fun and
>>>> inclusiveness and set the tone for embracing the goofiness.) Let’s face
it,
>>>> even though some folks forget and take it all a bit too seriously, these
>>>> dances we love are *incredibly* weird. Beautifully so, but
>>>> definitely on the silly side of joy.
>>>>
>>>> I’m also grateful for all you folks sharing ideas and experiences
>>>> openly and nonjudgmentally. What a gift!
>>>>
>>>> Chrissy Fowler
>>>> Belfast Maine
>>>> *Where we are digging out from the latest nor’easter (ah the joys
>>>> of finally getting winter weather in March)*
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to
>>>> organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>> To unsubscribe send an email to
>>> organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Dana Dwinell-Yardley
>> pronouns: she/her/hers
>> 802-505-6639
>> Montpelier, Vermont
>> _______________________________________________
>> Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> To unsubscribe send an email to
>> organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>
> _______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
2:16 a.m.
Dana,
Thank you for candidly challenging our situation and sharing from your
heart and experience. I will reflect on your words and share them with
others. Having a first hand account of the difficulties and dangers of
being nonbinary helps put this issue in perspective. My fear is that
forcing change before more people are ready will create a backlash and
resentment. It feels to me that we need to convince and educate a critical
mass of people in order for the change to be accepted. Your words will be
an effective tool for our evolution.
On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 2:05 PM Dana Dwinell-Yardley via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Sure, happy for anyone to forward and distribute. I
added my extra soap
bubble into my original text and pasted it below: feel free to send this
version around.
Thanks for the kind words.
Dana
==
Hi all,
I'm going to explore this intersection of gender-free role terms +
welcoming new dancers + growing community a little bit. [And by "a little
bit" I actually mean a "a long soapbox about important stuff," so hang on
for the ride.]
I'm a genderqueer / gender nonconforming person, and a huge part of my
folk community includes transgender, nonbinary, and other gender
nonconforming folks. If you haven't been paying much attention to the news,
let me tell you: The political and social climate around gender and
sexuality in the United States right now is *terrifying* for LGBTQ+ folks.
Twenty-three states introduced laws in 2022 that infringe or attack the
basic rights of transgender and queer people, and more than 13 of those
bills have become law. There is a ton of hatred, fear, and violence being
directed toward the queer and trans community, especially youth, even in
liberal states like Vermont (where I live).
All this is to say — it's a hard and scary time to be a queer person. And
our dance communities have the potential to be places of radical inclusion,
expansiveness, safety, and welcome in a violent world that seeks to deny us
our basic right to exist.
- When a dance uses gender-free terms, that is a step toward that
radical inclusion.
- When dancers are comfortable and happy to dance with any person in
any role, that's another step. (For example, if you've got a lot of men who
show obvious discomfort at swinging anyone who's not a woman, the dancing
is likely to feel icky and unsafe to trans & nonbinary folks or anyone
swapping roles, regardless of terms used.)
- When we take the time to explain our dance culture as well as the
basic moves, that's another step.
- When we offer nametags with a place to write in pronouns, that's
another step.
- When we offer a sliding scale to make our dance accessible to folks
of all income levels, that's another step.
- When people can see themselves reflected in the organizing committee
members (i.e. diversity of age, gender, class background, race, etc), in a
way that's actually sharing the work and not tokenizing people, that's
another step.
- When long-time dancers ask newcomers to dance in a friendly but not
pushy way, and we normalize saying no as well as saying yes, that's another
step.
- When we normalize giving and receiving feedback about the way our
dancing affects others, that's another step. (i.e. "hey, will you grab my
hand less tightly? that hurts." "oh! thanks for telling me! is that
better?)
- When we are kind, patient, and supportive of each other while we
learn new things, that's another step. Whether it's learning how to balance
and swing, or learning how to use new pronouns for someone, it's gonna be
awkward at first! That's how learning works! We'll just keep practicing
together.
- When we are transparent about why we're doing what we're doing (i.e.
our values, like Julian suggested), that's another step. When I get up to
give announcements, for example, I thank people for helping to make the
dance welcoming and inclusive, and I speak about our sliding scale, our
name buttons, our role terms, and wearing masks all as pathways to a more
inclusive and welcoming space, as ways that we care for one another.
- (Right now, I am still inclined to think that wearing masks is
another way that we create spaces of radical inclusion and safety,
especially for folks at higher risk for COVID, but that's a whole other
kettle of fish.)
On the flip side: If a dance uses gendered role terms, or when organizers
say things like "ugh I don't like Robins & Larks," or "I don't
want to push
the issue," what I hear is:
"we don't care about you,"
"we don't think transgender or nonbinary people exist," or
"you're causing problems for us just by being yourself."
OUCH.
I would gently offer that there is no such thing as a non-political space.
Everything is political, even though you may not have noticed because you
were comfortable and the current setup worked for you. This is a country
where people are actively passing laws that harm transgender and queer
people. Choosing NOT to do something is also a political act.
We set our dance culture together. People will notice the vibes more than
you think. Let's keep striving toward spaces that are deeply welcoming,
growthful, and joyful for everyone! This is part of why I am called to keep
organizing dances: because I can see the power in creating a community that
exists a little bit outside of space and time for a moment, a community
where we get to see the kind of joy, connection, collaboration, and care
that we dream of for society at large. What a delightful, magical thing.
Yours in building joyful, inclusive dance community,
Dana Dwinell-Yardley
Montpelier, VT
danadwya(a)gmail.com
On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 2:24 PM Joe Harrington <contradancerjoe(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Dana, this was so clearly articulated and
beautifully written! Would you
give permission for people to forward and post it publicly? I feel it
important to ask, as we want this to be a safe place, even if the archives
are searchable.
--jh--
On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 12:23 PM Dana Dwinell-Yardley via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
--
Dana Dwinell-Yardley
pronouns: she/her/hers
802-505-6639
Montpelier, Vermont
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
One more soap bubble for the soap box!
We also take a step toward inclusion when we are kind, patient, and
supportive of each other while we learn new things: whether that's learning
how to balance and swing, or learning how to use new pronouns for someone.
It's gonna be awkward at first! That's how learning works! We'll just keep
practicing and improving together.
Dana
On Wed, Mar 15, 2023, 12:02 PM Mary Collins <nativedae(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Dana,
Thank you. Well said and I am sharing with my very conservative
board. I think they need a wake up call, forgive me but "either shit or
get off the pot". If we really want our dance to continue we need to
address this.
I hope for a better tomorrow for all of us no matter the walk we choose.
Blessings,
Mary "from Buffalo" not.
"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who
couldn't hear the music." - Nietzsche
“Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass ... it's about
learning to dance in the rain!” ~ unknown
On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 11:21 AM Dana Dwinell-Yardley via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I'm going to explore this intersection of gender-free role terms +
> welcoming new dancers + growing community a little bit. [And by "a little
> bit" I actually mean a "a long soapbox about important stuff," so hang
on
> for the ride.]
>
> I'm a genderqueer / gender nonconforming person, and a huge part of my
> folk community includes transgender, nonbinary, and other gender
> nonconforming folks. If you haven't been paying much attention to the news,
> let me tell you: The political and social climate around gender and
> sexuality in the United States right now is *terrifying* for LGBTQ+ folks.
> Twenty-three states introduced laws in 2022 that infringe or attack the
> basic rights of transgender and queer people, and more than 13 of those
> bills have become law. There is a ton of hatred, fear, and violence being
> directed toward the queer and trans community, especially youth, even in
> liberal states like Vermont (where I live).
>
> All this is to say — it's a hard and scary time to be a queer person.
> And our dance communities have the potential to be places of radical
> inclusion, expansiveness, safety, and welcome in a violent world that seeks
> to deny us our basic right to exist.
>
> - When a dance uses gender-free terms, that is a step toward that
> radical inclusion.
> - When dancers are comfortable and happy to dance with any person
> in any role, that's another step. (For example, if you've got a lot of
men
> who show obvious discomfort at swinging anyone who's not a woman, the
> dancing is likely to feel icky and unsafe to trans & nonbinary folks or
> anyone swapping roles, regardless of terms used.)
> - When we take the time to explain our dance culture as well as
> the basic moves, that's another step.
> - When we offer nametags with a place to write in pronouns, that's
> another step.
> - When we offer a sliding scale to make our dance accessible to
> folks of all income levels, that's another step.
> - When people can see themselves reflected in the organizing
> committee members (i.e. diversity of age, gender, class background, race,
> etc), in a way that's actually sharing the work and not tokenizing people,
> that's another step.
> - When long-time dancers ask newcomers to dance in a friendly but
> not pushy way, and we normalize saying no as well as saying yes, that's
> another step.
> - When we normalize giving and receiving feedback about the way
> our dancing affects others, that's another step. (i.e. "hey, will you
grab
> my hand less tightly? that hurts." "oh! thanks for telling me! is that
> better?)
> - When we are transparent about why we're doing what we're doing
> (i.e. our values, like Julian suggested), that's another step. When I get
> up to give announcements, for example, I thank people for helping to make
> the dance welcoming and inclusive, and I speak about our sliding scale, our
> name buttons, our role terms, and wearing masks all as pathways to a more
> inclusive and welcoming space, as ways that we care for one another.
> - (Right now, I am still inclined to think that wearing masks is
> another way that we create spaces of radical inclusion and safety,
> especially for folks at higher risk for COVID, but that's a whole other
> kettle of fish.)
>
> On the flip side: If a dance uses gendered role terms, or when
> organizers say things like "ugh I don't like Robins & Larks," or
"I don't
> want to push the issue," what I hear is:
> "we don't care about you,"
> "we don't think transgender or nonbinary people exist," or
> "you're causing problems for us just by being yourself."
> OUCH.
>
> I would gently offer that there is no such thing as a non-political
> space. Everything is political, even though you may not have noticed
> because the politics weren't affecting you and you were comfortable because
> the current setup worked for you. This is a country where people are
> actively passing laws that harm transgender and queer people. Choosing NOT
> to do something is also a political act.
>
> We set our dance culture together. People will notice the vibes more
> than you think. Let's keep striving toward spaces that are deeply
> welcoming, growthful, and joyful for everyone! This is part of why I am
> called to keep organizing dances: because I can see the power in creating a
> community that exists a little bit outside of space and time for a moment,
> a community where we get to see the kind of joy, connection, collaboration,
> and care that we dream of for society at large. What a delightful, magical
> thing.
>
> Yours in building joyful, inclusive dance community,
> Dana
> Montpelier, VT
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 8:53 AM Julian Blechner via Organizers <
> organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> Lots of good suggestions from a lot of people.
>>
>> I think I can boil down success keeping new dancers to:
>> 1. Listen to youth, put then on your committee, and implement their
>> suggestions.
>> 2. Have a written values statement, which all of your other policies
>> follow.
>> 3. Make it clear you want to hear from dancers with compliments or
>> complaints. And actually deal with complaints. Over and over, the biggest
>> reason I hear people not returning (other than just not liking the dance
>> form) is unhandled and ignored complaints.
>>
>> In dance,
>> Julian Blechner
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 15, 2023, 8:10 AM Chrissy Fowler via Organizers <
>> organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>
>>> *“Getting back to the subject of repeat visitors, perhaps the
>>> biggest difference of all is a caller who brings the fun and the
>>> inclusiveness, the type who can laugh with you when something goes goofy.
>>> (… . ) I'm tremendously grateful to everyone organizing contra dances,
>>> and to all the people trying to make their dance a little bit better each
>>> week.*
>>> *Lex Spoon”*
>>>
>>> Hear, hear!
>>>
>>> (And I think it’s also the organizers who can bring that fun and
>>> inclusiveness and set the tone for embracing the goofiness.) Let’s face it,
>>> even though some folks forget and take it all a bit too seriously, these
>>> dances we love are *incredibly* weird. Beautifully so, but
>>> definitely on the silly side of joy.
>>>
>>> I’m also grateful for all you folks sharing ideas and experiences
>>> openly and nonjudgmentally. What a gift!
>>>
>>> Chrissy Fowler
>>> Belfast Maine
>>> *Where we are digging out from the latest nor’easter (ah the joys of
>>> finally getting winter weather in March)*
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>> To unsubscribe send an email to
>>> organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> To unsubscribe send an email to
>> organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>
>
>
> --
> Dana Dwinell-Yardley
> pronouns: she/her/hers
> 802-505-6639
> Montpelier, Vermont
> _______________________________________________
> Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> To unsubscribe send an email to
> organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list --
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To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
17 Mar
17 Mar
7:24 p.m.
Quick thoughts:
Ask your dancers what would help?
Do you have “strangers” or inappropriate people scaring new dancers away? Please don’t
pretend that isn’t a factor, even if you think it shouldn’t be. It is.
Free snacks?
Great music?
Experienced people come when they come. They know they don’t need to be there at the
start.
Sent from miHand,
Peter
‘…the slimmest of instructions, “To use your gifts and dreams for good.” ’
— From Braiding Sweetgrass by Robin Wall Kimmerer
645
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31 comments
16 participants
participants (16)
-
Alexandra Deis-Lauby -
Chrissy Fowler -
Dana Dwinell-Yardley -
Emily Addison -
Heitzso -
Jeff Kaufman -
Jerome Grisanti -
Joe Harrington -
judith.dewitt -
Julian Blechner -
Lex Spoon -
Mary Collins -
Meg Dedolph -
Paul Rosenberg -
Peter Martel -
Sandy Seiler