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2524 discussions

by Alan Winston via Callers

On 10/24/15 10:32 PM, Jacob Nancy Bloom via Callers wrote: > See the link below for more information on the dance The Spanish Gypsy > (or Jeepsie), the song from which the tune for the dance came, and the > 1623 play from which the song came, which had the title "The Spanish > Gypsy". > > http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/lod/vol4/spanish_gipsy.html > <http://www.pbm.com/%7Elindahl/lod/vol4/spanish_gipsy.html> > > I'll go out on a limb and make some historical pronouncements which > cannot be proven, but which seem most probable to me: > > The dance title The Spanish Gypsy came from the dance being done to a > tune associated with the play The Spanish Gypsy. > Sure, extremely plausible. > The dance figure Gypsy got its name from the prevalence of the figure > in the dance The Spanish Gypsy. If true, only true in the modern revival. (Basically, Cecil Sharp made up *and named* the Gypsy figure. In Spanish Jeepsie - reconstructed at the link you have above- the figure isn't a gypsy, and it isn't called a gypsy. It's a back to back.) Point me toward dance notation published before 1900 that uses the term "gypsy" as the name of a figure, and then we can talk. Until there's some evidence that Elizabethan dancers used the figure name, your argument dies here. > The Morris dance figures whole-gyp and half-gyp were originally called > whole-gypsy and half-gypsy. (Although parts of England had and > ancient tradition of seasonal dancing under the name Morris Dance, it > seems likely, from the nature of the dances, that the form of the > Cotswold dance traditions collected by Cecil Sharp only went back to > the Elizabethan period.) > I think you're saying that Cotswold dances as collected by Sharp and others reflected Elizabethan country dances as shown in Playford, and that whole-gyp and half-gyp were therefore originally named after the (notional) country dance figure and were thus properly named whole-gypsy and half-gypsy. Please correct me if I've misunderstood this. This is irrelevant unless you can show that Elizabethan country dance actually had a figure called gypsy, which you haven't. (And it's actually irrelevant even if you can, since once you draw a line from the play to the tune to the dance you've said what you can about it not being an ethnic stereotype.) But if it *were* relevant, I'd ask you to explain why these Playford-following Elizabethan morris dancers used "half-gypsy" for what Playford called "sides all". -- Alan

9 years, 2 months

[Callers] Fw: Gypsy terms (Re: Callers Digest, Vol 18, Issue 16)

by Michael Fuerst via Callers

Hmmm...... Although I remain completely unperturbed by our new g-word, Fred Park's "a nose-to-nose do-si-do" description inspired other ideas for a surrogate. How about "dance [or orbit] around" or "dance [or orbit] about" ? Any of these are as easy or easier for a caller to proclaim than "do-si-do" or "ladies chain." Michael Fuerst 802 N Broadway Urbana IL 61801 217 239 5844 #yiv2862906804 #yiv2862906804 -- DIV {margin:0px;}#yiv2862906804

9 years, 2 months

[Callers] Female caller for one-time beginners party on Long Island

by Jacob or Nancy Bloom via Callers

I've been contacted by someone who is looking for a female square dance caller for a party on Long Island, NY, in December or January. The attendees will be 50 twelve-year-old girls. If anyone would be interested in calling for this gig, please contact me off-list. Jacob Bloom jandnbloom(a)gmail.com

9 years, 2 months

Re: [Callers] Historical derivation of term "Gypsy"

by Jeff Kaufman via Callers

Sharp uses the term "whole-gip" in part II of the country dance book. I have scans here: http://www.jefftk.com/p/history-of-the-term-gypsy He doesn't use the figure in the first part at all. On Oct 26, 2015 8:13 PM, "Jacob or Nancy Bloom via Callers" < callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > I've changed the name on the thread, to reflect the change of subject to > historical background. > > I acknowledge Alan's point, that, unless a pre-Cecil Sharp source shows up > for the use of the term 'gypsy' as a country dance figure, the bulk of my > hypothesis falls apart. > > As for the use of the terms 'gyp' and 'gypsy' in Morris dance, *The > Morris Book* by Cecil Sharp and Herbert Macilwaine defines the figure > "Half-Hands or Half-Gip" in part I, page 65, and defines the figure > "Whole-Gip or Gipsies" on page 32 of Part III. > > No explanation for the derivation of the terms is given in either volume. > > I do not have a copy of Sharp's Country Dance Book at hand. Did someone > say that Sharp did not use the term gypsy in it? > > Jacob > > On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 4:40 AM, Alan Winston <winston(a)slac.stanford.edu> > wrote: > >> >> >> On 10/24/15 10:32 PM, Jacob Nancy Bloom via Callers wrote: >> >> See the link below for more information on the dance The Spanish Gypsy >> (or Jeepsie), the song from which the tune for the dance came, and the 1623 >> play from which the song came, which had the title "The Spanish Gypsy". >> >> http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/lod/vol4/spanish_gipsy.html >> >> I'll go out on a limb and make some historical pronouncements which >> cannot be proven, but which seem most probable to me: >> >> The dance title The Spanish Gypsy came from the dance being done to a >> tune associated with the play The Spanish Gypsy. >> >> Sure, extremely plausible. >> >> The dance figure Gypsy got its name from the prevalence of the figure in >> the dance The Spanish Gypsy. >> >> >> If true, only true in the modern revival. (Basically, Cecil Sharp made >> up *and named* the Gypsy figure. In Spanish Jeepsie - reconstructed at the >> link you have above- the figure isn't a gypsy, and it isn't called a >> gypsy. It's a back to back.) >> >> Point me toward dance notation published before 1900 that uses the term >> "gypsy" as the name of a figure, and then we can talk. Until there's some >> evidence that Elizabethan dancers used the figure name, your argument dies >> here. >> >> The Morris dance figures whole-gyp and half-gyp were originally called >> whole-gypsy and half-gypsy. (Although parts of England had and ancient >> tradition of seasonal dancing under the name Morris Dance, it seems likely, >> from the nature of the dances, that the form of the Cotswold dance >> traditions collected by Cecil Sharp only went back to the Elizabethan >> period.) >> >> I think you're saying that Cotswold dances as collected by Sharp and >> others reflected Elizabethan country dances as shown in Playford, and that >> whole-gyp and half-gyp were therefore originally named after the (notional) >> country dance figure and were thus properly named whole-gypsy and >> half-gypsy. Please correct me if I've misunderstood this. >> >> This is irrelevant unless you can show that Elizabethan country dance >> actually had a figure called gypsy, which you haven't. (And it's actually >> irrelevant even if you can, since once you draw a line from the play to the >> tune to the dance you've said what you can about it not being an ethnic >> stereotype.) >> >> But if it *were* relevant, I'd ask you to explain why these >> Playford-following Elizabethan morris dancers used "half-gypsy" for what >> Playford called "sides all". >> >> -- Alan >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net > >

9 years, 2 months

[Callers] Historical derivation of term "Gypsy"

by Jacob or Nancy Bloom via Callers

I've changed the name on the thread, to reflect the change of subject to historical background. I acknowledge Alan's point, that, unless a pre-Cecil Sharp source shows up for the use of the term 'gypsy' as a country dance figure, the bulk of my hypothesis falls apart. As for the use of the terms 'gyp' and 'gypsy' in Morris dance, *The Morris Book* by Cecil Sharp and Herbert Macilwaine defines the figure "Half-Hands or Half-Gip" in part I, page 65, and defines the figure "Whole-Gip or Gipsies" on page 32 of Part III. No explanation for the derivation of the terms is given in either volume. I do not have a copy of Sharp's Country Dance Book at hand. Did someone say that Sharp did not use the term gypsy in it? Jacob On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 4:40 AM, Alan Winston <winston(a)slac.stanford.edu> wrote: > > > On 10/24/15 10:32 PM, Jacob Nancy Bloom via Callers wrote: > > See the link below for more information on the dance The Spanish Gypsy (or > Jeepsie), the song from which the tune for the dance came, and the 1623 > play from which the song came, which had the title "The Spanish Gypsy". > > http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/lod/vol4/spanish_gipsy.html > > I'll go out on a limb and make some historical pronouncements which cannot > be proven, but which seem most probable to me: > > The dance title The Spanish Gypsy came from the dance being done to a tune > associated with the play The Spanish Gypsy. > > Sure, extremely plausible. > > The dance figure Gypsy got its name from the prevalence of the figure in > the dance The Spanish Gypsy. > > > If true, only true in the modern revival. (Basically, Cecil Sharp made up > *and named* the Gypsy figure. In Spanish Jeepsie - reconstructed at the > link you have above- the figure isn't a gypsy, and it isn't called a > gypsy. It's a back to back.) > > Point me toward dance notation published before 1900 that uses the term > "gypsy" as the name of a figure, and then we can talk. Until there's some > evidence that Elizabethan dancers used the figure name, your argument dies > here. > > The Morris dance figures whole-gyp and half-gyp were originally called > whole-gypsy and half-gypsy. (Although parts of England had and ancient > tradition of seasonal dancing under the name Morris Dance, it seems likely, > from the nature of the dances, that the form of the Cotswold dance > traditions collected by Cecil Sharp only went back to the Elizabethan > period.) > > I think you're saying that Cotswold dances as collected by Sharp and > others reflected Elizabethan country dances as shown in Playford, and that > whole-gyp and half-gyp were therefore originally named after the (notional) > country dance figure and were thus properly named whole-gypsy and > half-gypsy. Please correct me if I've misunderstood this. > > This is irrelevant unless you can show that Elizabethan country dance > actually had a figure called gypsy, which you haven't. (And it's actually > irrelevant even if you can, since once you draw a line from the play to the > tune to the dance you've said what you can about it not being an ethnic > stereotype.) > > But if it *were* relevant, I'd ask you to explain why these > Playford-following Elizabethan morris dancers used "half-gypsy" for what > Playford called "sides all". > > -- Alan >

9 years, 2 months

[Callers] Gypsy terms (Re: Callers Digest, Vol 18, Issue 16)

by Suzanne Girardot via Callers

9 years, 2 months

[Callers] Advice about "gypsy"

by Amy Wimmer via Callers

Hello All, I taught a dance this evening that included a ladies' gypsy. I received the email below a few minutes ago. In teaching it I wanted to convey that it is a flirty, eye contact sort of move. This person was obviously offended. I am at a loss for how to respond, except to apologize for offending. I'm pretty sure I described the move accurately. I meant absolutely no offense. I didn't make up the name for the move, but don't want to make excuses. Does this move need a new name? How would you respond? -Amy Seattle Begin forwarded message: *Subject:* *First time at your event* This evening, I came to one of your dances for the first time. I was impressed by the friendliness of the dancers, the quality of the musicians, and the overall fun of the dance. And then we got to a dance in which we were told we would be learning a step named after an offensive term for Romani people. And I felt uncomfortable. And then when the step was taught, it became clear that the term was so named based on stereotypes of Romani women as being overly sexual. And I became more uncomfortable. I assume that this was not done maliciously, but rather out of an unawareness of the ways that that term has been used to denigrate Romani people throughout history (much the same way that many other racial slurs have been used in the past by well-meaning people before they became aware that those terms were hurtful and harmful to those disadvantaged groups). Nonetheless, it felt shockingly offensive to me, all the more so in the context of a community that appeared to be so welcoming and accepting. Until that point, I had a very enjoyable time dancing at your event. I've been a dancer in a variety of communities for many years now, and aside from that issue, this was probably the best first experience I've had when meeting a new dance community. It was a shame that some presumably unintentional racial insensitivity had to ruin what was otherwise such a positive experience.

9 years, 2 months

Re: [Callers] Gypsies

by Kalia Kliban via Callers

On 10/25/2015 6:32 PM, Don Veino via Callers wrote: > At the risk of offering one more straw dog, there's "loop". > > "End that star [left] facing your next neighbor, loop right [around] > that neighbor and continue into a swing." > > "Two ladies loop left once and a half, _insert_call_here_ your partner." > > To my knowledge, it's free of call/cue homonyms, sounds short and > distinct and the other use in contra ("with your partner promenade > across and loop wide to the left to face a new couple..." is a similar > concept. No obvious negative meanings in common language (most are > positive, e.g.: "in the loop"). This is the best of the bunch so far, IMO. And it's pleasantly short. Kalia

9 years, 2 months

Re: [Callers] Gypsies

by Ron Blechner via Callers

I use loop in several figures already. On Oct 25, 2015 9:32 PM, "Don Veino" <sharedweight_net(a)veino.com> wrote: > I'm concerned spiral and circle are far too similar in sound - > particularly the rise/fall pattern - for those with any hearing challenges. > I also accept the criticism of the similar terms (eg: vortex) as implying a > progressively closer approach (which really only applies in a "meltdown" > situation) or fostering the idea of twirling/spinning while doing the > primary move and that likely extends to swirl. > > At the risk of offering one more straw dog, there's "loop". > > "End that star [left] facing your next neighbor, loop right [around] that > neighbor and continue into a swing." > > "Two ladies loop left once and a half, _insert_call_here_ your partner." > > To my knowledge, it's free of call/cue homonyms, sounds short and distinct > and the other use in contra ("with your partner promenade across and loop > wide to the left to face a new couple..." is a similar concept. No obvious > negative meanings in common language (most are positive, e.g.: "in the > loop"). > On Oct 25, 2015 8:35 PM, "Ron Blechner via Callers" < > callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > >> Eddie is also a gender name, thus I would rule that out. Vortex doesn't >> exactly come off well on the mic. Swirl sounds way too much like circle >> unless you are none ciating very very crisp late, in which case you are >> going to get some Pardes sounds hissing on the mic. >> >> Thus, I don't like any of the three. I suggest spiral instead. >> >>

9 years, 2 months

Re: [Callers] Gypsies

by Don Veino via Callers

I'm concerned spiral and circle are far too similar in sound - particularly the rise/fall pattern - for those with any hearing challenges. I also accept the criticism of the similar terms (eg: vortex) as implying a progressively closer approach (which really only applies in a "meltdown" situation) or fostering the idea of twirling/spinning while doing the primary move and that likely extends to swirl. At the risk of offering one more straw dog, there's "loop". "End that star [left] facing your next neighbor, loop right [around] that neighbor and continue into a swing." "Two ladies loop left once and a half, _insert_call_here_ your partner." To my knowledge, it's free of call/cue homonyms, sounds short and distinct and the other use in contra ("with your partner promenade across and loop wide to the left to face a new couple..." is a similar concept. No obvious negative meanings in common language (most are positive, e.g.: "in the loop"). On Oct 25, 2015 8:35 PM, "Ron Blechner via Callers" < callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > Eddie is also a gender name, thus I would rule that out. Vortex doesn't > exactly come off well on the mic. Swirl sounds way too much like circle > unless you are none ciating very very crisp late, in which case you are > going to get some Pardes sounds hissing on the mic. > > Thus, I don't like any of the three. I suggest spiral instead. > >

9 years, 2 months

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