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[Callers] CDSS Exec visit November 6th and 7th!

by Alexandra Deis-Lauby via Callers

Country Song and Dance Society is coming to NYC and would love to meet you, dance with you, and learn about your local dance community! The schedule includes ECD and Contra with talent from near and far. The potluck on Saturday between the dances will be a great opportunity to munch, mix, and mingle. Ritual dancers may make surprise visits too. Please invite your communities of FDOs as well as dancers, musicians, and callers! We hope to see you on the dance floor! https://www.facebook.com/events/1110110708999514/ Schedule, locations, and subway directions: FRIDAY: Friday 7:30-10:30 CDNY English Country Dance with callers *Brooke Friendly, Jill Allen, Jenny Beer*! Manhattan. (Needs some embellishment to match below.) Friday 7:30-11 Brooklyn Contra and Village Contra Present:* The Brooklyn Swing Ensemble with *Alexandra Deis-Lauby and Quena Crain. Wonderful local talent, gender free calling, and a vibrant dance community! Brooklyn. SATURDAY in Manhattan: Saturday 3-6 Advanced Contra dance with music and calling by KING KONTRA all the way from ENGLAND! http://www.cbdb.co.uk/king-kontra/ <http://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cbdb.co.uk%2Fking-kontra%2F&…> *Saturday 6-8:00 Community meeting and potluck with CDSS Executive Committee members. * Saturday 7:30-10:45 More KING KONTRA! Callers include CDSS Board Members: *Jill Allen, Brooke Friendly* and local talent! New dancer workshop from 7:30-8:00 . Manhattan events take place at: The Church of the Village 201 West 13th street at 7th ave. NY, NY Subway trains at the corner of 7th Ave and 14th Street are 1, 2, or 3. F, A, C, E a block away. D, N, 4, 5, or 6 a 10-minute walk away. The Brooklyn dance takes place at: Camp Friendship 339 8th st, Brooklyn NY Subway trains F, G, R. *Join us on the dance floor!*

9 years, 1 month

[Callers] Ralph Page Dance Legacy Weekend, Jan. 15-17

by Richard Hart via Callers

The Ralph Page Dance Legacy weekend will be on the weekend of January 15-17, 2016 in the Memorial Union Building at the University of New Hampshire. Come and join us for a great weekend of dance, music, and dance history. We even expect Ralph Page, himself, to join us briefly for a few dances. This year we have added the ability to register online. Please let us know if you have any problems with the online registration so we can fix it as soon as possible. http://ralphpage.neffa.org/ Rich Hart.

9 years, 1 month

Re: [Callers] Callers Digest, Vol 18, Issue 17

by tavi merrill via Callers

i like where this is going. Folks who want to keep the g-word would have to prove it didn't come from 1620s "unconventional; outdoor" (but we know where that came from, and from the bohemian sense also where hipsters/YUCCYs came from though that was some pretty interesting cultural evolution, thank you Fitzgerald, love ADD). Ah, the arts of cajolery. That's a great phrase for what i was dancing around, godawful puns intended. The square callers have a great point with "dance around/walk around." Particularly Woody's point that it supplies facing generally and dancers do their creative best to cajole each other into swings. We can still call Becky Hill's "The Eyes Have It," but only because mad robin. > Message: 12 > Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 12:03:40 -0400 > From: Rich Sbardella via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> > To: Ron Blechner <contraron(a)gmail.com> > Cc: callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> > Subject: Re: [Callers] Advice about "gypsy" > Message-ID: > < > CAE4BujJ+22zv8mf4bZ185kf8fwRfzEiBZoSrohSmLn+LurfsfQ(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > In square dance, Indian Style is rarely used for single file promenade, > although it was prevalent just 25 years ago. It has slowly disappeared > replaced with just the descriptive language of "single file". > I often replace, "Single file Indian Style" with "Single file with a > smile". > I also beieve Walk around your Neighbor is a suitable, and perhaps the > best, replacement for Gypsy Neighbor or Gypsie around your Neighbor. It > already has the correct meaning for many dancers (eye contact optional), > and it easily translates from contra to common usage in squares. > Rich > Stafford, CT > > > On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 11:41 AM, Ron Blechner via Callers < > callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > > > Since "gypsy" as a contra/ECD term almost certainly refers to Romani, it > > differs from say, geological terms or whatnot. The swastika is a sad > thing, > > because the Nazis basically ruined it, even though they use a reverse > > direction version. > > > > That said, I'm not endorsing or not endorsing the change to the "gypsy" > > move, just stating that there are some clear differences.

9 years, 1 month

Re: [Callers] Advice about "gypsy"

by David Smukler via Callers

When calling, I’ve struggled with “gypsy,” not because of its unfortunate political reverberations (like Amy, I have used it without intending offense or realizing it might cause offense), but because for me it doesn’t roll trippingly off the tongue — I guess I don’t really like “verbing" nouns. I also completely agree with those who are uncomfortable with caller language that seems to require flirtation. People can and will flirt if they wish to, but it shouldn’t be suggested as a requirement. All this said, there is lots of choreography where I like the figure, and I’ve certainly used it. In some old square dance calls you sometimes hear “walk around your corner” for a move with similar geography. How about “walk around” as a straightforward, non-loaded alternative? David > From: Amy Wimmer via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net <mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net>> > Date: October 24, 2015 at 3:12:57 AM EDT > To: callers(a)sharedweight.net <mailto:callers@sharedweight.net> > Subject: [Callers] Advice about "gypsy" > > > Hello All, > > I taught a dance this evening that included a ladies' gypsy. I received the email below a few minutes ago. In teaching it I wanted to convey that it is a flirty, eye contact sort of move. This person was obviously offended. I am at a loss for how to respond, except to apologize for offending. > > I'm pretty sure I described the move accurately. I meant absolutely no offense. I didn't make up the name for the move, but don't want to make excuses. Does this move need a new name? How would you respond? > > -Amy > Seattle > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net <mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net> > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net <http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net>

9 years, 2 months

Re: [Callers] Advice about "gypsy"

by via Callers

I'm no philologist, but I don't think it's as open and shut as suggested. While there is no proof the term derived from something other than in reference to the people, there is equally no proof to the affirmative that it is named after those people. Although it is indeed probable that it was named after the Roma people, mere coexistence (or pre-existence) of the term doesn't confirm it's the source. To keep things in perspective: On more than one occasion, I've heard contra dance callers explained that an "allemande" comes from the French "à la main" or "by the hand." However, that is apocryphal and the true origin is from a reference to a German dance (in French, "Allemande"). Just because something sounds logically consistent doesn't mean that's the true origin. I think the fact that the term is shortened to "gip" in some contexts and spelled as "jeepsies" in another leaves enough reasonable doubt that it could come from other derivations. That said, it may need to be retired regardless. > On Oct 27, 2015, at 13:50, Ron Blechner <contraron(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > This should be open and shut. > > http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=gypsy > > The term, whether with a y or i vowel (remember, this is before Webster invented the dictionary with standard spellings) is ~400 years old. > > The burden of proof is thus on those who would say there's some other root of the word where the Morris dancers got it. > >> On Oct 27, 2015 12:02 PM, "Andrea Nettleton" <twirly-girl(a)bellsouth.net> wrote: >> I've been reading all the historical origins discussion. It's seems to me we are far from concluding that the term 'gypsy' is associated with Romani people. We have that Cecil Sharp probably heard Morris Dancers using whole and half gip, and appropriated the movement and term for broader use in country dance, apparently without investigating origin. And we have a possible association between an Elizabethan? theater production called the Spanish Gypsy, with a dance of similar name with movement that may or may not be what we now call gypsy, but was not so named in said dance. We are all assuming that at some point, someone was referring to the Roma, to their hands free dance, to their gaze, or something, but we don't know. >> That said, the trouble comes on situations like that Amy Wimmer encountered. People from outside come in, and THEY make the assumption and association. And some feel it is not politically correct, and take offense. We haven't heard of a case of Romani people taking offense, presumably because we haven't had any attend a contra? That doesn't make using the term ok, it just means we have no usable specific data. Sargon's question therefore remains unanswered. What are the criteria for removing a term from our vocabulary? What level of provable offense constitutes reason for removal? Even if the answer is none, it's worth asking ourselves. >> Andrea >> >> Sent from my iOnlypretendtomultitask >> >>> On Oct 27, 2015, at 11:41 AM, Ron Blechner via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: >>> >>> Since "gypsy" as a contra/ECD term almost certainly refers to Romani, it differs from say, geological terms or whatnot. The swastika is a sad thing, because the Nazis basically ruined it, even though they use a reverse direction version. >>> >>> That said, I'm not endorsing or not endorsing the change to the "gypsy" move, just stating that there are some clear differences. >>> >>>> On Oct 27, 2015 11:20 AM, "Sargon de Jesus via Callers" <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: >>>> This has been a fascinating and edifying conversation regarding how and when to use the term. At the risk of getting too deep in the philosophical questions regarding use of the word "gypsy," I have a sincere and seriously non-loaded question about what conditions must be met in order to justify removing it from our calling vocabulary. Of course I acknowledge that when use of a pointed term meant to represent a certain group of people is deemed by that group of people to be offensive, then care should be taken to eliminate use of such a word (the Washington, D.C. football team comes to mind). There is no alternate etymology to that term other than the reference to Native Americans (well, unless their helmets had always featured red-skinned potatoes, of course). But now, in playing devil's advocate I ask: doesn't context and origin matter for "gypsy"? Isn't the etymology of the term's use in contra dancing relevant to whether it can rightfully be cast aside for being an offensive term? >>>> >>>> To those who say it doesn't, then how do we reconcile that with offensive terms or displays that have similar outputs that arose completely independently? For example: >>>> - The four-pointed star common in Jainism is frequently mistaken for a swastika. >>>> - The garb of the "Nazarenos" in Spain look identical to the KKK. >>>> - Geologists liberally use the term "dike/dyke" for a relatively common rock formation. >>>> - Cracks or fissures in/on surfaces are commonly called "chinks." >>>> - The term "fob" is widely used for certain types of rings on key chains. >>>> >>>> If we agree that all of these displays and uses are legitimate and appropriate for continued use, then doesn't the history of "gypsy" in contra dancing matter? Or does the surficial cause of offense warrant elimination? Not trying to weasel out of the situation here, but rather genuinely trying to refine the precise reasoning behind decisions in contra vocabulary. Curious about any/all perspectives on this -- thanks! >>>> Sargon >>>> >>>>> On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 7:00 PM, Winston, Alan P. via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: >>>>> Apologies for putting words in your mouth. I misunderstood what you were saying. >>>>> >>>>> -- Alan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On 10/26/2015 3:51 PM, Colin Hume via Callers wrote: >>>>>>> On Mon, 26 Oct 2015 12:48:00 -0700, Alan Winston via Callers wrote: >>>>>>> I didn't know morris dancers used "gypsy" rather than "gyp", as you >>>>>>> say on the web page. >>>>>> Alan - >>>>>> >>>>>> I don't believe I say that. I say that Sharp's handwritten notes use >>>>>> the word "gipsies", and I give links to prove it. I agree that morris >>>>>> dancers use "gyp". >>>>>> >>>>>> Colin Hume >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Callers mailing list >>>>>> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >>>>>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Callers mailing list >>>>> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >>>>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Callers mailing list >>>> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >>>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Callers mailing list >>> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net

9 years, 2 months

Re: [Callers] Advice about "gypsy"

by John Sweeney via Callers

When I was at university all the college servants were called gyps. According to my dictionary it may just as well have come from the name of a short jacket (obsolete English gippo derived from the obsolete French word jumeau). We are unlikely to ever know the true derivation of the word gypsy in a dance context. I've been using the word for 50 years and never, ever thought it had anything to do with gypsies! I believe we should accept that English is a rich language with many words having multiple meanings. To a dancer a gypsy is just the name of a move and has no other connotation, and a dance gypsy is someone who travels to dances. There is absolutely no negative or derogatory intent in our use of the word. And since when did the Romani have sole use of the word? There are 10,000 descendants of Irish gypsies in the USA, and DNA studies have shown that Irish gypsies are a distinct ethnic group. And what about the Egyptians? The word originally meant Egyptian! There are people who will read hidden meaning into anything you say. Please let's not let them take control of the English language. = = = = = The original letter is quite worrying. The writer says, "when the step was taught, it became clear that the term was so named based on stereotypes of Romani women as being overly sexual". I can't believe the caller said anything like that. This would appear to be all in the mind of the writer. And, "that term has been used to denigrate Romani people throughout history". I thought it was only used fairly recently as a derogatory term, and even then not generally. I have always thought it was just another word for a traveller and never known it to be negative. And, "some presumably unintentional racial insensitivity". No, it can't possibly be racial since it referred to a move and not a person. = = = = = Happy dancing, John John Sweeney, Dancer, England john(a)modernjive.com 01233 625 362 http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent

9 years, 2 months

Re: [Callers] Advice about "gypsy"

by via Callers

Sent from my iPad > On 24 Oct 2015, at 19:52, Richard Hart via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > > I always describe a gypsy as being just like a dos à dos, but face to > face, instead of back to back. This might be problematic for ECD dancers as Fried de Metz Herman "invented" this figure. It is basically it is a reverse back to back ( dos-si-do), i.e. fall back past partner (neighbour) right shoulder, step right and walk forward to place. As mentioned, in square dancing you have a walk around corner/partner. This is to all intents and purposes is a gypsy. Graham

9 years, 2 months

Re: [Callers] Advice about "gypsy"

by Andrea Nettleton via Callers

I've been reading all the historical origins discussion. It's seems to me we are far from concluding that the term 'gypsy' is associated with Romani people. We have that Cecil Sharp probably heard Morris Dancers using whole and half gip, and appropriated the movement and term for broader use in country dance, apparently without investigating origin. And we have a possible association between an Elizabethan? theater production called the Spanish Gypsy, with a dance of similar name with movement that may or may not be what we now call gypsy, but was not so named in said dance. We are all assuming that at some point, someone was referring to the Roma, to their hands free dance, to their gaze, or something, but we don't know. That said, the trouble comes on situations like that Amy Wimmer encountered. People from outside come in, and THEY make the assumption and association. And some feel it is not politically correct, and take offense. We haven't heard of a case of Romani people taking offense, presumably because we haven't had any attend a contra? That doesn't make using the term ok, it just means we have no usable specific data. Sargon's question therefore remains unanswered. What are the criteria for removing a term from our vocabulary? What level of provable offense constitutes reason for removal? Even if the answer is none, it's worth asking ourselves. Andrea Sent from my iOnlypretendtomultitask > On Oct 27, 2015, at 11:41 AM, Ron Blechner via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > > Since "gypsy" as a contra/ECD term almost certainly refers to Romani, it differs from say, geological terms or whatnot. The swastika is a sad thing, because the Nazis basically ruined it, even though they use a reverse direction version. > > That said, I'm not endorsing or not endorsing the change to the "gypsy" move, just stating that there are some clear differences. > >> On Oct 27, 2015 11:20 AM, "Sargon de Jesus via Callers" <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: >> This has been a fascinating and edifying conversation regarding how and when to use the term. At the risk of getting too deep in the philosophical questions regarding use of the word "gypsy," I have a sincere and seriously non-loaded question about what conditions must be met in order to justify removing it from our calling vocabulary. Of course I acknowledge that when use of a pointed term meant to represent a certain group of people is deemed by that group of people to be offensive, then care should be taken to eliminate use of such a word (the Washington, D.C. football team comes to mind). There is no alternate etymology to that term other than the reference to Native Americans (well, unless their helmets had always featured red-skinned potatoes, of course). But now, in playing devil's advocate I ask: doesn't context and origin matter for "gypsy"? Isn't the etymology of the term's use in contra dancing relevant to whether it can rightfully be cast aside for being an offensive term? >> >> To those who say it doesn't, then how do we reconcile that with offensive terms or displays that have similar outputs that arose completely independently? For example: >> - The four-pointed star common in Jainism is frequently mistaken for a swastika. >> - The garb of the "Nazarenos" in Spain look identical to the KKK. >> - Geologists liberally use the term "dike/dyke" for a relatively common rock formation. >> - Cracks or fissures in/on surfaces are commonly called "chinks." >> - The term "fob" is widely used for certain types of rings on key chains. >> >> If we agree that all of these displays and uses are legitimate and appropriate for continued use, then doesn't the history of "gypsy" in contra dancing matter? Or does the surficial cause of offense warrant elimination? Not trying to weasel out of the situation here, but rather genuinely trying to refine the precise reasoning behind decisions in contra vocabulary. Curious about any/all perspectives on this -- thanks! >> Sargon >> >>> On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 7:00 PM, Winston, Alan P. via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: >>> Apologies for putting words in your mouth. I misunderstood what you were saying. >>> >>> -- Alan >>> >>> >>>> On 10/26/2015 3:51 PM, Colin Hume via Callers wrote: >>>>> On Mon, 26 Oct 2015 12:48:00 -0700, Alan Winston via Callers wrote: >>>>> I didn't know morris dancers used "gypsy" rather than "gyp", as you >>>>> say on the web page. >>>> Alan - >>>> >>>> I don't believe I say that. I say that Sharp's handwritten notes use >>>> the word "gipsies", and I give links to prove it. I agree that morris >>>> dancers use "gyp". >>>> >>>> Colin Hume >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Callers mailing list >>>> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >>>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Callers mailing list >>> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Callers mailing list >> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net

9 years, 2 months

Re: [Callers] Advice about "gypsy"

by Rich Sbardella via Callers

In square dance, Indian Style is rarely used for single file promenade, although it was prevalent just 25 years ago. It has slowly disappeared replaced with just the descriptive language of "single file". I often replace, "Single file Indian Style" with "Single file with a smile". I also beieve Walk around your Neighbor is a suitable, and perhaps the best, replacement for Gypsy Neighbor or Gypsie around your Neighbor. It already has the correct meaning for many dancers (eye contact optional), and it easily translates from contra to common usage in squares. Rich Stafford, CT On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 11:41 AM, Ron Blechner via Callers < callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > Since "gypsy" as a contra/ECD term almost certainly refers to Romani, it > differs from say, geological terms or whatnot. The swastika is a sad thing, > because the Nazis basically ruined it, even though they use a reverse > direction version. > > That said, I'm not endorsing or not endorsing the change to the "gypsy" > move, just stating that there are some clear differences. > On Oct 27, 2015 11:20 AM, "Sargon de Jesus via Callers" < > callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > >> This has been a fascinating and edifying conversation regarding how and >> when to use the term. At the risk of getting too deep in the philosophical >> questions regarding use of the word "gypsy," I have a sincere and seriously >> non-loaded question about what conditions must be met in order to justify >> removing it from our calling vocabulary. Of course I acknowledge that when >> use of a pointed term meant to represent a certain group of people is >> deemed by that group of people to be offensive, then care should be taken >> to eliminate use of such a word (the Washington, D.C. football team comes >> to mind). There is no alternate etymology to that term other than the >> reference to Native Americans (well, unless their helmets had always >> featured red-skinned potatoes, of course). But now, in playing devil's >> advocate I ask: doesn't context and origin matter for "gypsy"? Isn't the >> etymology of the term's use in contra dancing relevant to whether it can >> rightfully be cast aside for being an offensive term? >> >> To those who say it doesn't, then how do we reconcile that with offensive >> terms or displays that have similar outputs that arose completely >> independently? For example: >> - The four-pointed star common in Jainism is frequently mistaken for a >> swastika. >> - The garb of the "Nazarenos" in Spain look identical to the KKK. >> - Geologists liberally use the term "dike/dyke" for a relatively common >> rock formation. >> - Cracks or fissures in/on surfaces are commonly called "chinks." >> - The term "fob" is widely used for certain types of rings on key chains. >> >> If we agree that all of these displays and uses are legitimate and >> appropriate for continued use, then doesn't the history of "gypsy" in >> contra dancing matter? Or does the surficial cause of offense warrant >> elimination? Not trying to weasel out of the situation here, but rather >> genuinely trying to refine the precise reasoning behind decisions in contra >> vocabulary. Curious about any/all perspectives on this -- thanks! >> Sargon >> >> On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 7:00 PM, Winston, Alan P. via Callers < >> callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: >> >>> Apologies for putting words in your mouth. I misunderstood what you >>> were saying. >>> >>> -- Alan >>> >>> >>> On 10/26/2015 3:51 PM, Colin Hume via Callers wrote: >>> >>>> On Mon, 26 Oct 2015 12:48:00 -0700, Alan Winston via Callers wrote: >>>> >>>>> I didn't know morris dancers used "gypsy" rather than "gyp", as you >>>>> say on the web page. >>>>> >>>> Alan - >>>> >>>> I don't believe I say that. I say that Sharp's handwritten notes use >>>> the word "gipsies", and I give links to prove it. I agree that morris >>>> dancers use "gyp". >>>> >>>> Colin Hume >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Callers mailing list >>>> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >>>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Callers mailing list >>> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Callers mailing list >> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net > >

9 years, 2 months

Re: [Callers] Advice about "gypsy"

by Ron Blechner via Callers

Since "gypsy" as a contra/ECD term almost certainly refers to Romani, it differs from say, geological terms or whatnot. The swastika is a sad thing, because the Nazis basically ruined it, even though they use a reverse direction version. That said, I'm not endorsing or not endorsing the change to the "gypsy" move, just stating that there are some clear differences. On Oct 27, 2015 11:20 AM, "Sargon de Jesus via Callers" < callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > This has been a fascinating and edifying conversation regarding how and > when to use the term. At the risk of getting too deep in the philosophical > questions regarding use of the word "gypsy," I have a sincere and seriously > non-loaded question about what conditions must be met in order to justify > removing it from our calling vocabulary. Of course I acknowledge that when > use of a pointed term meant to represent a certain group of people is > deemed by that group of people to be offensive, then care should be taken > to eliminate use of such a word (the Washington, D.C. football team comes > to mind). There is no alternate etymology to that term other than the > reference to Native Americans (well, unless their helmets had always > featured red-skinned potatoes, of course). But now, in playing devil's > advocate I ask: doesn't context and origin matter for "gypsy"? Isn't the > etymology of the term's use in contra dancing relevant to whether it can > rightfully be cast aside for being an offensive term? > > To those who say it doesn't, then how do we reconcile that with offensive > terms or displays that have similar outputs that arose completely > independently? For example: > - The four-pointed star common in Jainism is frequently mistaken for a > swastika. > - The garb of the "Nazarenos" in Spain look identical to the KKK. > - Geologists liberally use the term "dike/dyke" for a relatively common > rock formation. > - Cracks or fissures in/on surfaces are commonly called "chinks." > - The term "fob" is widely used for certain types of rings on key chains. > > If we agree that all of these displays and uses are legitimate and > appropriate for continued use, then doesn't the history of "gypsy" in > contra dancing matter? Or does the surficial cause of offense warrant > elimination? Not trying to weasel out of the situation here, but rather > genuinely trying to refine the precise reasoning behind decisions in contra > vocabulary. Curious about any/all perspectives on this -- thanks! > Sargon > > On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 7:00 PM, Winston, Alan P. via Callers < > callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > >> Apologies for putting words in your mouth. I misunderstood what you were >> saying. >> >> -- Alan >> >> >> On 10/26/2015 3:51 PM, Colin Hume via Callers wrote: >> >>> On Mon, 26 Oct 2015 12:48:00 -0700, Alan Winston via Callers wrote: >>> >>>> I didn't know morris dancers used "gypsy" rather than "gyp", as you >>>> say on the web page. >>>> >>> Alan - >>> >>> I don't believe I say that. I say that Sharp's handwritten notes use >>> the word "gipsies", and I give links to prove it. I agree that morris >>> dancers use "gyp". >>> >>> Colin Hume >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Callers mailing list >>> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Callers mailing list >> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net > >

9 years, 2 months

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