25 Oct
2015
25 Oct
'15
9:22 a.m.
When calling, I’ve struggled with “gypsy,” not because of its unfortunate political
reverberations (like Amy, I have used it without intending offense or realizing it might
cause offense), but because for me it doesn’t roll trippingly off the tongue — I guess I
don’t really like “verbing" nouns. I also completely agree with those who are
uncomfortable with caller language that seems to require flirtation. People can and will
flirt if they wish to, but it shouldn’t be suggested as a requirement. All this said,
there is lots of choreography where I like the figure, and I’ve certainly used it.
In some old square dance calls you sometimes hear “walk around your corner” for a move
with similar geography. How about “walk around” as a straightforward, non-loaded
alternative?
David
From: Amy Wimmer via Callers
<callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net <mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net>>
Date: October 24, 2015 at 3:12:57 AM EDT
To: callers(a)sharedweight.net <mailto:callers@sharedweight.net>
Subject: [Callers] Advice about "gypsy"
Hello All,
I taught a dance this evening that included a ladies' gypsy. I received the email
below a few minutes ago. In teaching it I wanted to convey that it is a flirty, eye
contact sort of move. This person was obviously offended. I am at a loss for how to
respond, except to apologize for offending.
I'm pretty sure I described the move accurately. I meant absolutely no offense. I
didn't make up the name for the move, but don't want to make excuses. Does this
move need a new name? How would you respond?
-Amy
Seattle
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26 Oct
26 Oct
8:30 a.m.
New subject: [Callers] Advice about "gypsy"
Wow, I'm pretty amazed by this thread.. I call dances with gypsies fairly often (some
times dancers request it), but NEVER emphasize the flirting aspect. To tell the truth,
when I first started dancing, well let's say when I first became aware of the figure,
probably years after I started dancing, it WAS presented as a flirtatious move and I had
no problem with it. As time progressed and after I started calling I noticed dancers were
often uncomfortable with it, so I stopped teaching "look into the person's
eyes" and as David says here just said "walk around" but still prompted it
as a gypsy. Some people do a Do Sa Do, and I just let it go.
Now, regarding the PC aspect of all this.. The term "Gypsy" as a dance figure
appears to have nothing to do with the race of people know as Gypsies. I look at this as a
"homonym", two words spelled the same with different meanings and different
origins.. Until this latest thread I had absolutely NO idea anyone took offense to the
actual word. BUT I have always had a great deal of respect for Masha and her argument is
quite compelling.. Now I guess I need to rethink this. I must say, no one has EVER (in 35+
years of calling) told me they had any problem with this (until now). I am quite sure the
next time I call a dance with a gypsy in it I will not "get in trouble"..
my $0.02 worth
bill
Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 12:22:19 -0400
To: callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
Subject: Re: [Callers] Advice about "gypsy"
From: callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
When calling, I’ve struggled with “gypsy,” not because of its unfortunate political
reverberations (like Amy, I have used it without intending offense or realizing it might
cause offense), but because for me it doesn’t roll trippingly off the tongue — I guess I
don’t really like “verbing" nouns. I also completely agree with those who are
uncomfortable with caller language that seems to require flirtation. People can and will
flirt if they wish to, but it shouldn’t be suggested as a requirement. All this said,
there is lots of choreography where I like the figure, and I’ve certainly used it.
In some old square dance calls you sometimes hear “walk around your corner” for a move
with similar geography. How about “walk around” as a straightforward, non-loaded
alternative?
David
From: Amy Wimmer via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>Datet;Date: October 24, 2015
at 3:12:57 AM EDT
To: callers(a)sharedweight.net
Subject: [Callers] Advice about "gypsy"
Hello All,
I taught a dance this evening that included a ladies' gypsy. I received the email
below a few minutes ago. In teaching it I wanted to convey that it is a flirty, eye
contact sort of move. This person was obviously offended. I am at a loss for how to
respond, except to apologize for offending.
I'm pretty sure I described the move accurately. I meant absolutely no offense. I
didn't make up the name for the move, but don't want to make excuses. Does this
move need a new name? How would you respond?
-AmySeattle_______________________________________________Callers mailing
listCallers@lists.sharedweight.nethttp://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
27 Oct
27 Oct
10:53 a.m.
New subject: [Callers] Advice about "gypsy"
I fully agree with everything Bill is saying. Like Bill, when I teach the figure in a
predance workshop or call it during the program, I never mention the potential romantic
aspect of gypsies. I figure that dancers can figure that out for themselves. The move is
what it is.
Woody
on the road, using an Android tablet
-------- Original Message --------
From: Bill Olson via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
Sent: Mon Oct 26 11:30:10 EDT 2015
To: "callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net" <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
Subject: Re: [Callers] Advice about "gypsy"
Wow, I'm pretty amazed by this thread.. I call dances with gypsies fairly often (some
times dancers request it), but NEVER emphasize the flirting aspect. To tell the truth,
when I first started dancing, well let's say when I first became aware of the figure,
probably years after I started dancing, it WAS presented as a flirtatious move and I had
no problem with it. As time progressed and after I started calling I noticed dancers were
often uncomfortable with it, so I stopped teaching "look into the person's
eyes" and as David says here just said "walk around" but still prompted it
as a gypsy. Some people do a Do Sa Do, and I just let it go.
Now, regarding the PC aspect of all this.. The term "Gypsy" as a dance figure
appears to have nothing to do with the race of people know as Gypsies. I look at this as a
"homonym", two words spelled the same with different meanings and different
origins.. Until this latest thread I had absolutely NO idea anyone took offense to the
actual word. BUT I have always had a great deal of respect for Masha and her argument is
quite compelling.. Now I guess I need to rethink this. I must say, no one has EVER (in 35+
years of calling) told me they had any problem with this (until now). I am quite sure the
next time I call a dance with a gypsy in it I will not "get in trouble"..
my $0.02 worth
bill
Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 12:22:19 -0400
To: callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
Subject: Re: [Callers] Advice about "gypsy"
From: callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
When calling, I’ve struggled with “gypsy,” not because of its unfortunate political
reverberations (like Amy, I have used it without intending offense or realizing it might
cause offense), but because for me it doesn’t roll trippingly off the tongue — I guess I
don’t really like “verbing" nouns. I also completely agree with those who are
uncomfortable with caller language that seems to require flirtation. People can and will
flirt if they wish to, but it shouldn’t be suggested as a requirement. All this said,
there is lots of choreography where I like the figure, and I’ve certainly used it.
In some old square dance calls you sometimes hear “walk around your corner” for a move
with similar geography. How about “walk around” as a straightforward, non-loaded
alternative?
David
From: Amy Wimmer via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>Datet;Date: October 24, 2015
at 3:12:57 AM EDT
To: callers(a)sharedweight.net
Subject: [Callers] Advice about "gypsy"
Hello All,
I taught a dance this evening that included a ladies' gypsy. I received the email
below a few minutes ago. In teaching it I wanted to convey that it is a flirty, eye
contact sort of move. This person was obviously offended. I am at a loss for how to
respond, except to apologize for offending.
I'm pretty sure I described the move accurately. I meant absolutely no offense. I
didn't make up the name for the move, but don't want to make excuses. Does this
move need a new name? How would you respond?
-AmySeattle_______________________________________________Callers mailing
listCallers@lists.sharedweight.nethttp://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
10:30 p.m.
New subject: [Callers] Advice about "gypsy"
Deja vu all over again.
I’ve always taught this move as a “face to face do-so-do”. I might describe it (once in
an evening) by asking the dancers to "imagine the delicate gold chain joining the
rings in your noses”. I don't explicitly suggest it’s flirty or even to make eye
contact — that’s up to the dancers. And for a melt-down, I never say “until you can’t
stand it any more”; I always say “when the music says it’s time, swing”. The music
dictates when one move ends and the next begins, with a suitably smooth and rewarding flow
from one to the next.
I do call this move a “gypsy”. I also refer to the performance roles of “gent” and
“lady”, and never (since 1984 or so) say “men” or “women”.
It will be interesting to hear more recent reactions from Romani community
representatives. In the repeated previous discussions, when such input was sought it
turned out that for the most part the people who ostensibly would/should have been
offended were not.
-Eric (that Black caller)
3112
days inactive
3115
days old
import1@lists2.sharedweight.net
3 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
-
Bill Olson via Callers -
David Smukler via Callers
-
Eric Black via Callers
-
Woody Lane via Callers