Import1 October 2015

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[Callers] Gypsy terms (Re: Callers Digest, Vol 18, Issue 16)

by Suzanne Girardot via Callers

8 years, 5 months

[Callers] Advice about "gypsy"

by Amy Wimmer via Callers

Hello All, I taught a dance this evening that included a ladies' gypsy. I received the email below a few minutes ago. In teaching it I wanted to convey that it is a flirty, eye contact sort of move. This person was obviously offended. I am at a loss for how to respond, except to apologize for offending. I'm pretty sure I described the move accurately. I meant absolutely no offense. I didn't make up the name for the move, but don't want to make excuses. Does this move need a new name? How would you respond? -Amy Seattle Begin forwarded message: *Subject:* *First time at your event* This evening, I came to one of your dances for the first time. I was impressed by the friendliness of the dancers, the quality of the musicians, and the overall fun of the dance. And then we got to a dance in which we were told we would be learning a step named after an offensive term for Romani people. And I felt uncomfortable. And then when the step was taught, it became clear that the term was so named based on stereotypes of Romani women as being overly sexual. And I became more uncomfortable. I assume that this was not done maliciously, but rather out of an unawareness of the ways that that term has been used to denigrate Romani people throughout history (much the same way that many other racial slurs have been used in the past by well-meaning people before they became aware that those terms were hurtful and harmful to those disadvantaged groups). Nonetheless, it felt shockingly offensive to me, all the more so in the context of a community that appeared to be so welcoming and accepting. Until that point, I had a very enjoyable time dancing at your event. I've been a dancer in a variety of communities for many years now, and aside from that issue, this was probably the best first experience I've had when meeting a new dance community. It was a shame that some presumably unintentional racial insensitivity had to ruin what was otherwise such a positive experience.

8 years, 5 months

Re: [Callers] Gypsies

by Kalia Kliban via Callers

On 10/25/2015 6:32 PM, Don Veino via Callers wrote: > At the risk of offering one more straw dog, there's "loop". > > "End that star [left] facing your next neighbor, loop right [around] > that neighbor and continue into a swing." > > "Two ladies loop left once and a half, _insert_call_here_ your partner." > > To my knowledge, it's free of call/cue homonyms, sounds short and > distinct and the other use in contra ("with your partner promenade > across and loop wide to the left to face a new couple..." is a similar > concept. No obvious negative meanings in common language (most are > positive, e.g.: "in the loop"). This is the best of the bunch so far, IMO. And it's pleasantly short. Kalia

8 years, 5 months

Re: [Callers] Gypsies

by Ron Blechner via Callers

I use loop in several figures already. On Oct 25, 2015 9:32 PM, "Don Veino" <sharedweight_net(a)veino.com> wrote: > I'm concerned spiral and circle are far too similar in sound - > particularly the rise/fall pattern - for those with any hearing challenges. > I also accept the criticism of the similar terms (eg: vortex) as implying a > progressively closer approach (which really only applies in a "meltdown" > situation) or fostering the idea of twirling/spinning while doing the > primary move and that likely extends to swirl. > > At the risk of offering one more straw dog, there's "loop". > > "End that star [left] facing your next neighbor, loop right [around] that > neighbor and continue into a swing." > > "Two ladies loop left once and a half, _insert_call_here_ your partner." > > To my knowledge, it's free of call/cue homonyms, sounds short and distinct > and the other use in contra ("with your partner promenade across and loop > wide to the left to face a new couple..." is a similar concept. No obvious > negative meanings in common language (most are positive, e.g.: "in the > loop"). > On Oct 25, 2015 8:35 PM, "Ron Blechner via Callers" < > callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > >> Eddie is also a gender name, thus I would rule that out. Vortex doesn't >> exactly come off well on the mic. Swirl sounds way too much like circle >> unless you are none ciating very very crisp late, in which case you are >> going to get some Pardes sounds hissing on the mic. >> >> Thus, I don't like any of the three. I suggest spiral instead. >> >>

8 years, 5 months

Re: [Callers] Gypsies

by Don Veino via Callers

I'm concerned spiral and circle are far too similar in sound - particularly the rise/fall pattern - for those with any hearing challenges. I also accept the criticism of the similar terms (eg: vortex) as implying a progressively closer approach (which really only applies in a "meltdown" situation) or fostering the idea of twirling/spinning while doing the primary move and that likely extends to swirl. At the risk of offering one more straw dog, there's "loop". "End that star [left] facing your next neighbor, loop right [around] that neighbor and continue into a swing." "Two ladies loop left once and a half, _insert_call_here_ your partner." To my knowledge, it's free of call/cue homonyms, sounds short and distinct and the other use in contra ("with your partner promenade across and loop wide to the left to face a new couple..." is a similar concept. No obvious negative meanings in common language (most are positive, e.g.: "in the loop"). On Oct 25, 2015 8:35 PM, "Ron Blechner via Callers" < callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > Eddie is also a gender name, thus I would rule that out. Vortex doesn't > exactly come off well on the mic. Swirl sounds way too much like circle > unless you are none ciating very very crisp late, in which case you are > going to get some Pardes sounds hissing on the mic. > > Thus, I don't like any of the three. I suggest spiral instead. > >

8 years, 5 months

Re: [Callers] Amy Asked For A Less Loaded Term (formerly "Advice on gypsy")

by tavi merrill via Callers

A couple thoughts i left out of the first message: I suggest "take eyes" rather than "lock eyes" because it's a less forceful/invasive phrasing and because it mirrors "take right hands," "take hands four" et cetera. And yes, i've seen others' comments to the effect that some find eye contact uncomfortable, but eyes are the primary connection between dancers in that move, so i see no reason to shy away from including that information in teaching and prompting, and those who find eye contact uncomfortable can continue avoiding it - as they do anyway, regardless of what the move is called.

8 years, 5 months

[Callers] Gypsies

by Andrea Nettleton via Callers

I don't like the idea that a term we use might be offensive to someone. I think part of its tenacity is that it can be used for a whole family of similar eye locking moves. The term walk around will not serve in what is now called a gypsy star, or in a traveling gypsy, gypsy chase, or gypsy hey, which all have eye contact as a common element. In discussing with dancers, I heard objection to the terms catching eyes, grabbing by the eyes etc. made them think of hands in eyes. Not that they didn't understand, but it was distasteful to them. Perhaps we could agree to a term like 'facing' to link the diverse moves together. It is used in squares in cases where instead of the usual facing someone's back, you are face to face (as in a facing diamond). This un-knots all the alternative moves (facing star, facing hey, travel facing). I don't actually think of a plain gypsy as involving a shoulder, but rather a side of my face. Go R face round your N, ladies L face round each other? Facing indicates where we should look more or less without demanding eye contact. I like eye contact, but some are profoundly uncomfortable with it. I dislike when they choose to twirl their bodies rather than at least look in my general direction. Facing helps with that. I'm sure we will come up with something better, but I'd like a solution that acknowledges this family of moves. I'm not fond of eddy, for its aural similarity to the name Eddie. Spiral, vortex etc, while all sort of indicative of rotation, also indicate to me the funnel effect, which is not the only way we use the move. Many gypsies merely move us smoothly on to another dancer. One final thought, offered mostly for grins. I have occasionally thought of a gypsy as two people walking round a maypole. We could say R maypole round your N, Ladies L maypole in the center, go one and a half to your P, R maypole and swing your partner. :D Andrea Sent from my iOnlypretendtomultitask > On Oct 25, 2015, at 12:56 PM, Joy Greenwolfe via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > > I once had someone explain the gypsy as not trusting someone enough to take their eyes off of them (!), so I agree that the underlying meaning can be problematic, to say the least. Other moves have historical meanings too, but Gypsy as a term is more pejorative than, say, Allemande, which references traditional German folk dance hand holds. > > I like Michael's suggestion for "eyes." When teaching, it could be described as "walk around holding eyes," which is similar to how I already describe it (holding eyes instead of hands). Then during the dance, the call could be shortened to "eyes" or "hold eyes." Something like "Ladies hold eyes" seems to roll off the tongue with a good rhythm. Or maybe "Ladies by the eyes?" > > Melting could still be melting. Not sure how I'd fix my gypsy chase move, though. > > There is also the issue of avoiding similar directions that would confuse the dancers, such as in a Mad Robin where you are encouraged to hold eyes with the person across from you, but not actually rotate around them. Maybe we need an alternate descriptive/evocative term, like the way a Mad Robin is sometimes called Sliding Doors. > > A single orbit? Eyes single? Star single? Hands off? > > I'm also curious about thoughts about to what degree we might explain the change to dancers. From most of the dancers' perspective, it may be "if it ain't broke, don't change it." We might get push-back from dancers exasperated with what seems to them like an arbitrary term change. Maybe if the term is more descriptive, they won't notice as much. "Holding Eyes" works for me. > > Just some thoughts. > > Joy Greenwolfe > Durham, NC > > >

8 years, 5 months

Re: [Callers] Advice about "gypsy"

by Martha Wild via Callers

I can see from this discussion that there is definitely merit in giving this move a different name, though I had never thought of it as a derogatory term before. I rather like the idea suggested in a previous post of "eddy" because it is short and to the point and sounds different from other calls. "Walk all around your neighbor/partner" is fine for a walkthrough and as a description, but not very good for a quick reminder when you'd rather be calling a lot less. Another move that one would have to rename is the "gypsy star". I have personally always called the move "gypsy star" as "star wrong" - mostly because if I say "gypsy star" there is always at least one couple in the crowd that starts to gypsy and swing (eddy and swing?) instead of doing the star. "Star wrong" is also short and to the point and emphasizes the oddity of the star - two people backing up and two going forward. It seems to get the job done. Martha On Oct 24, 2015, at 1:42 PM, Rich Sbardella via Callers wrote: > In square dance, the call "walk all around your left hand lady" is very close to a right shoulder gypsy, and "See Saw is a left shoulder walk around. A left shoulder Dosido is no longer called a See Saw, but a Left Dosido. > Walk all around your nieghbor or partner, and see saw your neighbor or partner, may be able to replace the gypsy without generating any new terms. > Rich > Stafford, CT > > > On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 2:52 PM, Richard Hart via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > I always describe a gypsy as being just like a dos à dos, but face to > face, instead of back to back. > > As that is the case, why not use French again. As "dos à dos" means > back to back, why not use "face à face" which means face to face? > Pronunciation would probably be difficult for those who don't speak > French, so it would probably become "facey-face" for many. > > On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 10:08 AM, Don Veino via Callers > <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > > Before I respond directly, I ask that all of us posting what I expect to be > > many replies to trim post quotes to just the pertinent bits (particularly > > those reading the "digest" version). > > > .... > > Curiously enough, I'd raised this naming issue with a group of callers (and > > dancers glommed on) at a house party recently. An area caller had tried > > rebranding the Gypsy as an Orbit, which this group rejected due to the > > existing usage & meaning for that term. One participant was of Romani > > heritage and expressed pride at the existing term and satisfaction at it > > being used for such a nice dance move and would feel loss were it to be > > renamed. I don't mention this to make excuses for anything that might offend > > but rather to show that there are many possible perspectives. I'd since > > thought of other possible names and came up with these: > > > > Swirl - gentlest, unfortunately similar to "twirl" in sound > > Cyclone - too "violent", encouraging abandon? > > Vortex - distinct in sound, 2 syllables and short when spelled out. > > > > Sorry you find yourself in this situation. We know your actual intent was to > > bring happiness, not offend. > > > > -Don > > > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net > > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net

8 years, 5 months

[Callers] Amy Asked For A Less Loaded Term (formerly "Advice on gypsy")

by tavi merrill via Callers

With regard to the term's offensiveness or lack thereof, i am less interested in the exact origins of the term's use within ECD than i am in the implications in pairing the term with that particular move. To be "gypped" is to be cheated, a term rooted in stereotypes of Romani people as untrustworthy, and the eyes are associated with gypsies in popular lore that ascribes a certain mystery or hypnotic power to the gypsy's gaze. While i am aware of both people who are offended by the term and people who take pride in it (hmm, how is that different from the N word? or fag?) i find the term itself less problematic than the web of association among the term, the eyes, mystery, hypnosis and criminality. Alternatives to "gypsy" have thus been on my radar for some time now. Most of the suggestions - orbit, vortex, yada yada - are dismissible, which leads me to a very simple suggestion. While flirtation isn't necessary to the move, eye contact is kind of the point of it. I had forgotten to explicitly teach the move at a recent gig with a number of beginners and just decided to prompt "eyes." It was magic. While i haven't yet pressed this into service: "Take eyes with your [partner/neighbor] and, without hands, turn by the [R/L]." As a prompt, "eyes" has so much more sense and grace to it than any other term that's been suggested. Associated moves (gypsy chase, gypsy star, etc) are another bridge to cross. Personally, i would feel comfortable removing the term from my calling as the name of that particular move without feeling a need to eschew or sanitize dances with the term in the title. I mean, Amy Asked for Eyes is a little awkward ;)

8 years, 5 months

Re: [Callers] Advice about "gypsy"

by James Saxe via Callers

Jeff Kauffman referred us to: > http://www.jefftk.com/p/history-of-the-term-gypsy That page mentions Playford's 1651 description of the dance "Cuckolds all a row," which includes the directions: ..., goe about the Co. We. not turning your faces. ..., goe about your owne not turning faces. [I'm using spelling from http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/playford_1651/074small.html Jeff's page seems to have facsimilie pages of a different edition.] Jeff writes that > Sharp interpreted this section as a series of whole-gips, where "whole-gip" is a figure from Morris dancing, and noted that this leaves us with the question of how the Morris figure got that name. Let me point out that the 1651 edition of Playford also includes a dance titled "The Spanish Jeepsie" (listed as "Spanish Jepsies" in the contents). This dance has a similar figure to the one in "Cuckolds all a row": ... go all about your We. not turning your faces. ... In fact the second and third parts of "The Spanish Jeepsie" have ... go about your own as before ... So the figure occurs more often in that dance than it does in "Cuckolds all a row". I don't know of (and haven't looked for) any specific evidence linking "The Spanish Jeepsie" to the terms "half-gip" and "whole-gip" in Morris dancing. I also don't know of (and haven't looked for) any evidence linking the choreography of "The Spanish Jeepsie" to anything that occurs in traditional Romani dancing (or it traditional Spanish dancing). None of this historical stuff helps with the issue of the term "gypsy" causing offence of with the task of picking a preferable term. One thing I think I can safely predict is that those who are offended by the term "gypsy" would be even more offended by "gip" (pronounced the same as "gyp", meaning to swindle). --Jim > On Oct 24, 2015, at 7:32 AM, Jeff Kaufman via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > > On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 5:17 AM, Chris Page via Callers > <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: >> "Gypsy" comes from Cecil Sharp, when he was trying to name a figure that >> appeared in the literature of two dancers going around each other. >> >> My hearsay understanding is that he named it after some Romani dances he >> knew of where partners didn't touch each other. >> > > Sharp called the figure "Whole-Gip" in The Country Dance Book Part II, > and seems to have taken the name from Morris: > > The figures which occur in the course of the dances described in > "The Dancing Master" are very varied and very numerous. With the > exception of the Set, the Side, and the Honour, and others of a like > character, all of which are essentially Country dance figures, I have > been able to connect nearly all of them with similar evolutions in the > Morris or Sword dances. The Whole-Poussette and, of course, the Roll, > are sword-dance figures, and I believe that all those Country Dance > figures, in which an arch is made by the joining of hands, > handkerchiefs, or ribbons, were originally derived from the same > source. Other evolutions such as Whole-Gip, Back-to-Back, Cross-over, > Foot-up, Corners, etc., are familiar Morris figures. > > If anyone knows where to look for how Morris dancers got "gip" I'd be > very curious. > > http://www.jefftk.com/p/history-of-the-term-gypsy > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net

8 years, 5 months

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Import1 October 2015