24 Oct
2015
24 Oct
'15
6:36 p.m.
I can see from this discussion that there is definitely merit in giving this move a
different name, though I had never thought of it as a derogatory term before. I rather
like the idea suggested in a previous post of "eddy" because it is short and to
the point and sounds different from other calls. "Walk all around your
neighbor/partner" is fine for a walkthrough and as a description, but not very good
for a quick reminder when you'd rather be calling a lot less.
Another move that one would have to rename is the "gypsy star". I have
personally always called the move "gypsy star" as "star wrong" -
mostly because if I say "gypsy star" there is always at least one couple in the
crowd that starts to gypsy and swing (eddy and swing?) instead of doing the star.
"Star wrong" is also short and to the point and emphasizes the oddity of the
star - two people backing up and two going forward. It seems to get the job done.
Martha
On Oct 24, 2015, at 1:42 PM, Rich Sbardella via Callers wrote:
In square dance, the call "walk all around your
left hand lady" is very close to a right shoulder gypsy, and "See Saw is a left
shoulder walk around. A left shoulder Dosido is no longer called a See Saw, but a Left
Dosido.
Walk all around your nieghbor or partner, and see saw your neighbor or partner, may be
able to replace the gypsy without generating any new terms.
Rich
Stafford, CT
On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 2:52 PM, Richard Hart via Callers
<callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
I always describe a gypsy as being just like a dos à dos, but face to
face, instead of back to back.
As that is the case, why not use French again. As "dos à dos" means
back to back, why not use "face à face" which means face to face?
Pronunciation would probably be difficult for those who don't speak
French, so it would probably become "facey-face" for many.
On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 10:08 AM, Don Veino via Callers
<callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Before I respond directly, I ask that all of us
posting what I expect to be
many replies to trim post quotes to just the pertinent bits (particularly
those reading the "digest" version).
....
Curiously enough, I'd raised this naming
issue with a group of callers (and
dancers glommed on) at a house party recently. An area caller had tried
rebranding the Gypsy as an Orbit, which this group rejected due to the
existing usage & meaning for that term. One participant was of Romani
heritage and expressed pride at the existing term and satisfaction at it
being used for such a nice dance move and would feel loss were it to be
renamed. I don't mention this to make excuses for anything that might offend
but rather to show that there are many possible perspectives. I'd since
thought of other possible names and came up with these:
Swirl - gentlest, unfortunately similar to "twirl" in sound
Cyclone - too "violent", encouraging abandon?
Vortex - distinct in sound, 2 syllables and short when spelled out.
Sorry you find yourself in this situation. We know your actual intent was to
bring happiness, not offend.
-Don
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24 Oct
24 Oct
6:45 p.m.
New subject: [Callers] Advice about "gypsy"
I don't think of it as a derogatory term.
--------------------
Lindsay Morris
CEO, TSMworks
Tel. 1-859-539-9900
lindsay(a)tsmworks.com
On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 6:36 PM, Martha Wild via Callers <
callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
I can see from this discussion that there is
definitely merit in giving
this move a different name, though I had never thought of it as a
derogatory term before. I rather like the idea suggested in a previous post
of "eddy" because it is short and to the point and sounds different from
other calls. "Walk all around your neighbor/partner" is fine for a
walkthrough and as a description, but not very good for a quick reminder
when you'd rather be calling a lot less.
Another move that one would have to rename is the "gypsy star". I have
personally always called the move "gypsy star" as "star wrong" -
mostly
because if I say "gypsy star" there is always at least one couple in the
crowd that starts to gypsy and swing (eddy and swing?) instead of doing the
star. "Star wrong" is also short and to the point and emphasizes the oddity
of the star - two people backing up and two going forward. It seems to get
the job done.
Martha
On Oct 24, 2015, at 1:42 PM, Rich Sbardella via Callers wrote:
In square dance, the call "walk all around your left hand lady" is very
close to a right shoulder gypsy, and "See Saw is a left shoulder walk
around. A left shoulder Dosido is no longer called a See Saw, but a Left
Dosido.
Walk all around your nieghbor or partner, and see saw your neighbor or
partner, may be able to replace the gypsy without generating any new terms.
Rich
Stafford, CT
On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 2:52 PM, Richard Hart via Callers <
callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
I always describe a gypsy as being just like a
dos à dos, but face to
face, instead of back to back.
As that is the case, why not use French again. As "dos à dos" means
back to back, why not use "face à face" which means face to face?
Pronunciation would probably be difficult for those who don't speak
French, so it would probably become "facey-face" for many.
On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 10:08 AM, Don Veino via Callers
<callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
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_______________________________________________
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Before I respond directly, I ask that all of us
posting what I expect
to be
many replies to trim post quotes to just the
pertinent bits
(particularly
those reading the "digest" version).
....
Curiously enough, I'd raised this naming
issue with a group of callers
(and
dancers glommed on) at a house party recently. An
area caller had tried
rebranding the Gypsy as an Orbit, which this group rejected due to the
existing usage & meaning for that term. One participant was of Romani
heritage and expressed pride at the existing term and satisfaction at it
being used for such a nice dance move and would feel loss were it to be
renamed. I don't mention this to make excuses for anything that might
offend
but rather to show that there are many possible
perspectives. I'd since
thought of other possible names and came up with these:
Swirl - gentlest, unfortunately similar to "twirl" in sound
Cyclone - too "violent", encouraging abandon?
Vortex - distinct in sound, 2 syllables and short when spelled out.
Sorry you find yourself in this situation. We know your actual intent
was to
bring happiness, not offend.
-Don
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
7:45 p.m.
New subject: [Callers] Advice about "gypsy"
Flirting - I try not to suggest that
Name - not worried what we call it
Suggestion - I sometimes call it 'eyeballs'. It works well.
--
Michael Barraclough
michael(a)michaelbarraclough.com
www.michaelbarraclough.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Martha Wild via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
Reply-to: Martha Wild <mawild(a)sbcglobal.net>
To: Caller's discussion list <callers(a)sharedweight.net>
Subject: Re: [Callers] Advice about "gypsy"
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 15:36:40 -0700
I can see from this discussion that there is definitely merit in giving
this move a different name, though I had never thought of it as a
derogatory term before. I rather like the idea suggested in a previous
post of "eddy" because it is short and to the point and sounds different
from other calls. "Walk all around your neighbor/partner" is fine for a
walkthrough and as a description, but not very good for a quick reminder
when you'd rather be calling a lot less.
Another move that one would have to rename is the "gypsy star". I have
personally always called the move "gypsy star" as "star wrong" -
mostly
because if I say "gypsy star" there is always at least one couple in the
crowd that starts to gypsy and swing (eddy and swing?) instead of doing
the star. "Star wrong" is also short and to the point and emphasizes the
oddity of the star - two people backing up and two going forward. It
seems to get the job done.
Martha
On Oct 24, 2015, at 1:42 PM, Rich Sbardella via Callers wrote:
In square dance, the call "walk all around your
left hand lady" is
very close to a right shoulder gypsy, and "See Saw is a left shoulder
walk around. A left shoulder Dosido is no longer called a See Saw,
but a Left Dosido.
Walk all around your nieghbor or partner, and see saw your neighbor or
partner, may be able to replace the gypsy without generating any new
terms.
Rich
Stafford, CT
On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 2:52 PM, Richard Hart via Callers
<callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
I always describe a gypsy as being just like a dos à dos, but
face to
face, instead of back to back.
As that is the case, why not use French again. As "dos à dos"
means
back to back, why not use "face à face" which means face to
face?
Pronunciation would probably be difficult for those who don't
speak
French, so it would probably become "facey-face" for many.
On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 10:08 AM, Don Veino via Callers
<callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
Before I respond directly, I ask that all of us
posting what
I expect to be
many replies to trim post quotes to just the
pertinent bits
(particularly
those reading the "digest" version).
....
Curiously enough, I'd raised this naming
issue with a group
of callers (and
dancers glommed on) at a house party recently. An
area
caller had tried
rebranding the Gypsy as an Orbit, which this
group rejected
due to the
existing usage & meaning for that term. One
participant was
of Romani
heritage and expressed pride at the existing term
and
satisfaction at it
being used for such a nice dance move and would
feel loss
were it to be
renamed. I don't mention this to make excuses
for anything
that might offend
but rather to show that there are many possible
perspectives. I'd since
thought of other possible names and came up with
these:
Swirl - gentlest, unfortunately similar to "twirl" in sound
Cyclone - too "violent", encouraging abandon?
Vortex - distinct in sound, 2 syllables and short when
spelled out.
Sorry you find yourself in this situation. We know your
actual intent was
to
bring happiness, not offend.
-Don
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
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25 Oct
25 Oct
12:56 p.m.
New subject: [Callers] Advice about "gypsy"
I once had someone explain the gypsy as not trusting someone enough to take their eyes off
of them (!), so I agree that the underlying meaning can be problematic, to say the least.
Other moves have historical meanings too, but Gypsy as a term is more pejorative than,
say, Allemande, which references traditional German folk dance hand holds.
I like Michael's suggestion for "eyes." When teaching, it could be described
as "walk around holding eyes," which is similar to how I already describe it
(holding eyes instead of hands). Then during the dance, the call could be shortened to
"eyes" or "hold eyes." Something like "Ladies hold eyes"
seems to roll off the tongue with a good rhythm. Or maybe "Ladies by the eyes?"
Melting could still be melting. Not sure how I'd fix my gypsy chase move, though.
There is also the issue of avoiding similar directions that would confuse the dancers,
such as in a Mad Robin where you are encouraged to hold eyes with the person across from
you, but not actually rotate around them. Maybe we need an alternate descriptive/evocative
term, like the way a Mad Robin is sometimes called Sliding Doors.
A single orbit? Eyes single? Star single? Hands off?
I'm also curious about thoughts about to what degree we might explain the change to
dancers. From most of the dancers' perspective, it may be "if it ain't broke,
don't change it." We might get push-back from dancers exasperated with what seems
to them like an arbitrary term change. Maybe if the term is more descriptive, they
won't notice as much. "Holding Eyes" works for me.
Just some thoughts.
Joy Greenwolfe
Durham, NC
On Oct 24, 2015, at 7:45 PM, Michael Barraclough via Callers wrote:
Flirting - I try not to suggest that
Name - not worried what we call it
Suggestion - I sometimes call it 'eyeballs'. It works well.
--
Michael Barraclough
michael(a)michaelbarraclough.com
www.michaelbarraclough.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Martha Wild via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
Reply-to: Martha Wild <mawild(a)sbcglobal.net>
To: Caller's discussion list <callers(a)sharedweight.net>
Subject: Re: [Callers] Advice about "gypsy"
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 15:36:40 -0700
I can see from this discussion that there is definitely merit in giving this move a
different name, though I had never thought of it as a derogatory term before. I rather
like the idea suggested in a previous post of "eddy" because it is short and to
the point and sounds different from other calls. "Walk all around your
neighbor/partner" is fine for a walkthrough and as a description, but not very good
for a quick reminder when you'd rather be calling a lot less.
Another move that one would have to rename is the "gypsy star". I have
personally always called the move "gypsy star" as "star wrong" -
mostly because if I say "gypsy star" there is always at least one couple in the
crowd that starts to gypsy and swing (eddy and swing?) instead of doing the star.
"Star wrong" is also short and to the point and emphasizes the oddity of the
star - two people backing up and two going forward. It seems to get the job done.
Martha
On Oct 24, 2015, at 1:42 PM, Rich Sbardella via Callers wrote:
In square dance, the call "walk all around
your left hand lady" is very close to a right shoulder gypsy, and "See Saw is a
left shoulder walk around. A left shoulder Dosido is no longer called a See Saw, but a
Left Dosido.
Walk all around your nieghbor or partner, and see saw your neighbor or partner, may be
able to replace the gypsy without generating any new terms.
Rich
Stafford, CT
On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 2:52 PM, Richard Hart via Callers
<callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
I always describe a gypsy as being just like a dos à dos, but face to
face, instead of back to back.
As that is the case, why not use French again. As "dos à dos" means
back to back, why not use "face à face" which means face to face?
Pronunciation would probably be difficult for those who don't speak
French, so it would probably become "facey-face" for many.
On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 10:08 AM, Don Veino via Callers
<callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net Before I respond directly, I ask that all of us
posting what I expect to be
many replies to trim post quotes to just the pertinent bits (particularly
those reading the "digest" version).
....
Curiously enough, I'd raised this naming
issue with a group of callers (and
dancers glommed on) at a house party recently. An area caller had tried
rebranding the Gypsy as an Orbit, which this group rejected due to the
existing usage & meaning for that term. One participant was of Romani
heritage and expressed pride at the existing term and satisfaction at it
being used for such a nice dance move and would feel loss were it to be
renamed. I don't mention this to make excuses for anything that might offend
but rather to show that there are many possible perspectives. I'd since
thought of other possible names and came up with these:
Swirl - gentlest, unfortunately similar to "twirl" in sound
Cyclone - too "violent", encouraging abandon?
Vortex - distinct in sound, 2 syllables and short when spelled out.
Sorry you find yourself in this situation. We know your actual intent was to
bring happiness, not offend.
-Don
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
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8:32 p.m.
New subject: [Callers] Advice about "gypsy"
A lot of people, including newer dancers or dancers who are just plain shy,
have difficulty with eye contact. I have stopped teaching the Gypsy as
locking eyes with a person, and instead stress looking at the person. In
this way the people who want to look at their eyes will naturally think to
do so, and the people who don't are not being forced to do so.
That's including the word eyes in the move itself is a problem. It is the
same problem of telling people that they have to smile. There are a million
reasons why a person may be enjoying themselves and not smile, perhaps if
they're just focusing. Or, god forbid, a person might not have to enjoy
themselves in your presence, and we should never expect somebody and tell
them to smile.
On Oct 25, 2015 12:56 PM, "Joy Greenwolfe via Callers" <
callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
I once had someone explain the gypsy as not trusting
someone enough to
take their eyes off of them (!), so I agree that the underlying meaning can
be problematic, to say the least. Other moves have historical meanings too,
but Gypsy as a term is more pejorative than, say, Allemande, which
references traditional German folk dance hand holds.
I like Michael's suggestion for *"eyes." *When teaching, it could be
described as "walk around holding eyes," which is similar to how I already
describe it (holding eyes instead of hands). Then during the dance, the
call could be shortened to "eyes" or "hold eyes." Something like
"Ladies
hold eyes" seems to roll off the tongue with a good rhythm. Or maybe
"Ladies by the eyes?"
Melting could still be melting. Not sure how I'd fix my gypsy chase move,
though.
There is also the issue of avoiding similar directions that would confuse
the dancers, such as in a Mad Robin where you are encouraged to hold eyes
with the person across from you, but not actually rotate around them. Maybe
we need an alternate descriptive/evocative term, like the way a Mad Robin
is sometimes called Sliding Doors.
A single orbit? Eyes single? Star single? Hands off?
I'm also curious about thoughts about to what degree we might explain the
change to dancers. From most of the dancers' perspective, it may be "if it
ain't broke, don't change it." We might get push-back from dancers
exasperated with what seems to them like an arbitrary term change. Maybe if
the term is more descriptive, they won't notice as much. "Holding Eyes"
works for me.
Just some thoughts.
Joy Greenwolfe
Durham, NC
On Oct 24, 2015, at 7:45 PM, Michael Barraclough via Callers wrote:
Flirting - I try not to suggest that
Name - not worried what we call it
Suggestion - I sometimes call it 'eyeballs'. It works well.
--
Michael Barraclough
michael(a)michaelbarraclough.com
www.michaelbarraclough.com
-----Original Message-----
*From*: Martha Wild via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<Martha%20Wild%20via%20Callers%20%3ccallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net%3e>>
Reply-to: Martha Wild <mawild(a)sbcglobal.net>
*To*: Caller's discussion list <callers(a)sharedweight.net
<Caller's%20discussion%20list%20%3ccallers(a)sharedweight.net%3e>>
*Subject*: Re: [Callers] Advice about "gypsy"
*Date*: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 15:36:40 -0700
I can see from this discussion that there is definitely merit in giving
this move a different name, though I had never thought of it as a
derogatory term before. I rather like the idea suggested in a previous post
of "eddy" because it is short and to the point and sounds different from
other calls. "Walk all around your neighbor/partner" is fine for a
walkthrough and as a description, but not very good for a quick reminder
when you'd rather be calling a lot less.
Another move that one would have to rename is the "gypsy star". I have
personally always called the move "gypsy star" as "star wrong" -
mostly
because if I say "gypsy star" there is always at least one couple in the
crowd that starts to gypsy and swing (eddy and swing?) instead of doing the
star. "Star wrong" is also short and to the point and emphasizes the oddity
of the star - two people backing up and two going forward. It seems to get
the job done.
Martha
On Oct 24, 2015, at 1:42 PM, Rich Sbardella via Callers wrote:
In square dance, the call "walk all around your left hand lady" is very
close to a right shoulder gypsy, and "See Saw is a left shoulder walk
around. A left shoulder Dosido is no longer called a See Saw, but a Left
Dosido.
Walk all around your nieghbor or partner, and see saw your neighbor or
partner, may be able to replace the gypsy without generating any new terms.
Rich
Stafford, CT
On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 2:52 PM, Richard Hart via Callers <
callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
I always describe a gypsy as being just like a dos à dos, but face to
face, instead of back to back.
As that is the case, why not use French again. As "dos à dos" means
back to back, why not use "face à face" which means face to face?
Pronunciation would probably be difficult for those who don't speak
French, so it would probably become "facey-face" for many.
On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 10:08 AM, Don Veino via Callers
<callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Before I respond directly, I ask that all of us
posting what I expect to
be
many replies to trim post quotes to just the
pertinent bits (particularly
those reading the "digest" version).
....
Curiously enough, I'd raised this naming
issue with a group of callers
(and
dancers glommed on) at a house party recently. An
area caller had tried
rebranding the Gypsy as an Orbit, which this group rejected due to the
existing usage & meaning for that term. One participant was of Romani
heritage and expressed pride at the existing term and satisfaction at it
being used for such a nice dance move and would feel loss were it to be
renamed. I don't mention this to make excuses for anything that might
offend
but rather to show that there are many possible
perspectives. I'd since
thought of other possible names and came up with these:
Swirl - gentlest, unfortunately similar to "twirl" in sound
Cyclone - too "violent", encouraging abandon?
Vortex - distinct in sound, 2 syllables and short when spelled out.
Sorry you find yourself in this situation. We know your actual intent
was to
bring happiness, not offend.
-Don
_______________________________________________
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Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
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4 comments
5 participants
participants (5)
-
Joy Greenwolfe via Callers -
Lindsay Morris via Callers
-
Martha Wild via Callers
-
Michael Barraclough via Callers
-
Ron Blechner via Callers