Import1 October 2015

import1@lists2.sharedweight.net

1 participants
70 discussions

by John Sweeney via Callers

When I was at university all the college servants were called gyps. According to my dictionary it may just as well have come from the name of a short jacket (obsolete English gippo derived from the obsolete French word jumeau). We are unlikely to ever know the true derivation of the word gypsy in a dance context. I've been using the word for 50 years and never, ever thought it had anything to do with gypsies! I believe we should accept that English is a rich language with many words having multiple meanings. To a dancer a gypsy is just the name of a move and has no other connotation, and a dance gypsy is someone who travels to dances. There is absolutely no negative or derogatory intent in our use of the word. And since when did the Romani have sole use of the word? There are 10,000 descendants of Irish gypsies in the USA, and DNA studies have shown that Irish gypsies are a distinct ethnic group. And what about the Egyptians? The word originally meant Egyptian! There are people who will read hidden meaning into anything you say. Please let's not let them take control of the English language. = = = = = The original letter is quite worrying. The writer says, "when the step was taught, it became clear that the term was so named based on stereotypes of Romani women as being overly sexual". I can't believe the caller said anything like that. This would appear to be all in the mind of the writer. And, "that term has been used to denigrate Romani people throughout history". I thought it was only used fairly recently as a derogatory term, and even then not generally. I have always thought it was just another word for a traveller and never known it to be negative. And, "some presumably unintentional racial insensitivity". No, it can't possibly be racial since it referred to a move and not a person. = = = = = Happy dancing, John John Sweeney, Dancer, England john(a)modernjive.com 01233 625 362 http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent

8 years, 6 months

Re: [Callers] Advice about "gypsy"

by via Callers

Sent from my iPad > On 24 Oct 2015, at 19:52, Richard Hart via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > > I always describe a gypsy as being just like a dos à dos, but face to > face, instead of back to back. This might be problematic for ECD dancers as Fried de Metz Herman "invented" this figure. It is basically it is a reverse back to back ( dos-si-do), i.e. fall back past partner (neighbour) right shoulder, step right and walk forward to place. As mentioned, in square dancing you have a walk around corner/partner. This is to all intents and purposes is a gypsy. Graham

8 years, 6 months

Re: [Callers] Advice about "gypsy"

by Andrea Nettleton via Callers

I've been reading all the historical origins discussion. It's seems to me we are far from concluding that the term 'gypsy' is associated with Romani people. We have that Cecil Sharp probably heard Morris Dancers using whole and half gip, and appropriated the movement and term for broader use in country dance, apparently without investigating origin. And we have a possible association between an Elizabethan? theater production called the Spanish Gypsy, with a dance of similar name with movement that may or may not be what we now call gypsy, but was not so named in said dance. We are all assuming that at some point, someone was referring to the Roma, to their hands free dance, to their gaze, or something, but we don't know. That said, the trouble comes on situations like that Amy Wimmer encountered. People from outside come in, and THEY make the assumption and association. And some feel it is not politically correct, and take offense. We haven't heard of a case of Romani people taking offense, presumably because we haven't had any attend a contra? That doesn't make using the term ok, it just means we have no usable specific data. Sargon's question therefore remains unanswered. What are the criteria for removing a term from our vocabulary? What level of provable offense constitutes reason for removal? Even if the answer is none, it's worth asking ourselves. Andrea Sent from my iOnlypretendtomultitask > On Oct 27, 2015, at 11:41 AM, Ron Blechner via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > > Since "gypsy" as a contra/ECD term almost certainly refers to Romani, it differs from say, geological terms or whatnot. The swastika is a sad thing, because the Nazis basically ruined it, even though they use a reverse direction version. > > That said, I'm not endorsing or not endorsing the change to the "gypsy" move, just stating that there are some clear differences. > >> On Oct 27, 2015 11:20 AM, "Sargon de Jesus via Callers" <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: >> This has been a fascinating and edifying conversation regarding how and when to use the term. At the risk of getting too deep in the philosophical questions regarding use of the word "gypsy," I have a sincere and seriously non-loaded question about what conditions must be met in order to justify removing it from our calling vocabulary. Of course I acknowledge that when use of a pointed term meant to represent a certain group of people is deemed by that group of people to be offensive, then care should be taken to eliminate use of such a word (the Washington, D.C. football team comes to mind). There is no alternate etymology to that term other than the reference to Native Americans (well, unless their helmets had always featured red-skinned potatoes, of course). But now, in playing devil's advocate I ask: doesn't context and origin matter for "gypsy"? Isn't the etymology of the term's use in contra dancing relevant to whether it can rightfully be cast aside for being an offensive term? >> >> To those who say it doesn't, then how do we reconcile that with offensive terms or displays that have similar outputs that arose completely independently? For example: >> - The four-pointed star common in Jainism is frequently mistaken for a swastika. >> - The garb of the "Nazarenos" in Spain look identical to the KKK. >> - Geologists liberally use the term "dike/dyke" for a relatively common rock formation. >> - Cracks or fissures in/on surfaces are commonly called "chinks." >> - The term "fob" is widely used for certain types of rings on key chains. >> >> If we agree that all of these displays and uses are legitimate and appropriate for continued use, then doesn't the history of "gypsy" in contra dancing matter? Or does the surficial cause of offense warrant elimination? Not trying to weasel out of the situation here, but rather genuinely trying to refine the precise reasoning behind decisions in contra vocabulary. Curious about any/all perspectives on this -- thanks! >> Sargon >> >>> On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 7:00 PM, Winston, Alan P. via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: >>> Apologies for putting words in your mouth. I misunderstood what you were saying. >>> >>> -- Alan >>> >>> >>>> On 10/26/2015 3:51 PM, Colin Hume via Callers wrote: >>>>> On Mon, 26 Oct 2015 12:48:00 -0700, Alan Winston via Callers wrote: >>>>> I didn't know morris dancers used "gypsy" rather than "gyp", as you >>>>> say on the web page. >>>> Alan - >>>> >>>> I don't believe I say that. I say that Sharp's handwritten notes use >>>> the word "gipsies", and I give links to prove it. I agree that morris >>>> dancers use "gyp". >>>> >>>> Colin Hume >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Callers mailing list >>>> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >>>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Callers mailing list >>> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Callers mailing list >> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net

8 years, 6 months

Re: [Callers] Advice about "gypsy"

by Rich Sbardella via Callers

In square dance, Indian Style is rarely used for single file promenade, although it was prevalent just 25 years ago. It has slowly disappeared replaced with just the descriptive language of "single file". I often replace, "Single file Indian Style" with "Single file with a smile". I also beieve Walk around your Neighbor is a suitable, and perhaps the best, replacement for Gypsy Neighbor or Gypsie around your Neighbor. It already has the correct meaning for many dancers (eye contact optional), and it easily translates from contra to common usage in squares. Rich Stafford, CT On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 11:41 AM, Ron Blechner via Callers < callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > Since "gypsy" as a contra/ECD term almost certainly refers to Romani, it > differs from say, geological terms or whatnot. The swastika is a sad thing, > because the Nazis basically ruined it, even though they use a reverse > direction version. > > That said, I'm not endorsing or not endorsing the change to the "gypsy" > move, just stating that there are some clear differences. > On Oct 27, 2015 11:20 AM, "Sargon de Jesus via Callers" < > callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > >> This has been a fascinating and edifying conversation regarding how and >> when to use the term. At the risk of getting too deep in the philosophical >> questions regarding use of the word "gypsy," I have a sincere and seriously >> non-loaded question about what conditions must be met in order to justify >> removing it from our calling vocabulary. Of course I acknowledge that when >> use of a pointed term meant to represent a certain group of people is >> deemed by that group of people to be offensive, then care should be taken >> to eliminate use of such a word (the Washington, D.C. football team comes >> to mind). There is no alternate etymology to that term other than the >> reference to Native Americans (well, unless their helmets had always >> featured red-skinned potatoes, of course). But now, in playing devil's >> advocate I ask: doesn't context and origin matter for "gypsy"? Isn't the >> etymology of the term's use in contra dancing relevant to whether it can >> rightfully be cast aside for being an offensive term? >> >> To those who say it doesn't, then how do we reconcile that with offensive >> terms or displays that have similar outputs that arose completely >> independently? For example: >> - The four-pointed star common in Jainism is frequently mistaken for a >> swastika. >> - The garb of the "Nazarenos" in Spain look identical to the KKK. >> - Geologists liberally use the term "dike/dyke" for a relatively common >> rock formation. >> - Cracks or fissures in/on surfaces are commonly called "chinks." >> - The term "fob" is widely used for certain types of rings on key chains. >> >> If we agree that all of these displays and uses are legitimate and >> appropriate for continued use, then doesn't the history of "gypsy" in >> contra dancing matter? Or does the surficial cause of offense warrant >> elimination? Not trying to weasel out of the situation here, but rather >> genuinely trying to refine the precise reasoning behind decisions in contra >> vocabulary. Curious about any/all perspectives on this -- thanks! >> Sargon >> >> On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 7:00 PM, Winston, Alan P. via Callers < >> callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: >> >>> Apologies for putting words in your mouth. I misunderstood what you >>> were saying. >>> >>> -- Alan >>> >>> >>> On 10/26/2015 3:51 PM, Colin Hume via Callers wrote: >>> >>>> On Mon, 26 Oct 2015 12:48:00 -0700, Alan Winston via Callers wrote: >>>> >>>>> I didn't know morris dancers used "gypsy" rather than "gyp", as you >>>>> say on the web page. >>>>> >>>> Alan - >>>> >>>> I don't believe I say that. I say that Sharp's handwritten notes use >>>> the word "gipsies", and I give links to prove it. I agree that morris >>>> dancers use "gyp". >>>> >>>> Colin Hume >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Callers mailing list >>>> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >>>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Callers mailing list >>> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Callers mailing list >> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net > >

8 years, 6 months

Re: [Callers] Advice about "gypsy"

by Ron Blechner via Callers

Since "gypsy" as a contra/ECD term almost certainly refers to Romani, it differs from say, geological terms or whatnot. The swastika is a sad thing, because the Nazis basically ruined it, even though they use a reverse direction version. That said, I'm not endorsing or not endorsing the change to the "gypsy" move, just stating that there are some clear differences. On Oct 27, 2015 11:20 AM, "Sargon de Jesus via Callers" < callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > This has been a fascinating and edifying conversation regarding how and > when to use the term. At the risk of getting too deep in the philosophical > questions regarding use of the word "gypsy," I have a sincere and seriously > non-loaded question about what conditions must be met in order to justify > removing it from our calling vocabulary. Of course I acknowledge that when > use of a pointed term meant to represent a certain group of people is > deemed by that group of people to be offensive, then care should be taken > to eliminate use of such a word (the Washington, D.C. football team comes > to mind). There is no alternate etymology to that term other than the > reference to Native Americans (well, unless their helmets had always > featured red-skinned potatoes, of course). But now, in playing devil's > advocate I ask: doesn't context and origin matter for "gypsy"? Isn't the > etymology of the term's use in contra dancing relevant to whether it can > rightfully be cast aside for being an offensive term? > > To those who say it doesn't, then how do we reconcile that with offensive > terms or displays that have similar outputs that arose completely > independently? For example: > - The four-pointed star common in Jainism is frequently mistaken for a > swastika. > - The garb of the "Nazarenos" in Spain look identical to the KKK. > - Geologists liberally use the term "dike/dyke" for a relatively common > rock formation. > - Cracks or fissures in/on surfaces are commonly called "chinks." > - The term "fob" is widely used for certain types of rings on key chains. > > If we agree that all of these displays and uses are legitimate and > appropriate for continued use, then doesn't the history of "gypsy" in > contra dancing matter? Or does the surficial cause of offense warrant > elimination? Not trying to weasel out of the situation here, but rather > genuinely trying to refine the precise reasoning behind decisions in contra > vocabulary. Curious about any/all perspectives on this -- thanks! > Sargon > > On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 7:00 PM, Winston, Alan P. via Callers < > callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > >> Apologies for putting words in your mouth. I misunderstood what you were >> saying. >> >> -- Alan >> >> >> On 10/26/2015 3:51 PM, Colin Hume via Callers wrote: >> >>> On Mon, 26 Oct 2015 12:48:00 -0700, Alan Winston via Callers wrote: >>> >>>> I didn't know morris dancers used "gypsy" rather than "gyp", as you >>>> say on the web page. >>>> >>> Alan - >>> >>> I don't believe I say that. I say that Sharp's handwritten notes use >>> the word "gipsies", and I give links to prove it. I agree that morris >>> dancers use "gyp". >>> >>> Colin Hume >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Callers mailing list >>> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Callers mailing list >> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net > >

8 years, 6 months

Re: [Callers] Advice about "gypsy"

by Alan Winston via Callers

On 10/24/15 10:32 PM, Jacob Nancy Bloom via Callers wrote: > See the link below for more information on the dance The Spanish Gypsy > (or Jeepsie), the song from which the tune for the dance came, and the > 1623 play from which the song came, which had the title "The Spanish > Gypsy". > > http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/lod/vol4/spanish_gipsy.html > <http://www.pbm.com/%7Elindahl/lod/vol4/spanish_gipsy.html> > > I'll go out on a limb and make some historical pronouncements which > cannot be proven, but which seem most probable to me: > > The dance title The Spanish Gypsy came from the dance being done to a > tune associated with the play The Spanish Gypsy. > Sure, extremely plausible. > The dance figure Gypsy got its name from the prevalence of the figure > in the dance The Spanish Gypsy. If true, only true in the modern revival. (Basically, Cecil Sharp made up *and named* the Gypsy figure. In Spanish Jeepsie - reconstructed at the link you have above- the figure isn't a gypsy, and it isn't called a gypsy. It's a back to back.) Point me toward dance notation published before 1900 that uses the term "gypsy" as the name of a figure, and then we can talk. Until there's some evidence that Elizabethan dancers used the figure name, your argument dies here. > The Morris dance figures whole-gyp and half-gyp were originally called > whole-gypsy and half-gypsy. (Although parts of England had and > ancient tradition of seasonal dancing under the name Morris Dance, it > seems likely, from the nature of the dances, that the form of the > Cotswold dance traditions collected by Cecil Sharp only went back to > the Elizabethan period.) > I think you're saying that Cotswold dances as collected by Sharp and others reflected Elizabethan country dances as shown in Playford, and that whole-gyp and half-gyp were therefore originally named after the (notional) country dance figure and were thus properly named whole-gypsy and half-gypsy. Please correct me if I've misunderstood this. This is irrelevant unless you can show that Elizabethan country dance actually had a figure called gypsy, which you haven't. (And it's actually irrelevant even if you can, since once you draw a line from the play to the tune to the dance you've said what you can about it not being an ethnic stereotype.) But if it *were* relevant, I'd ask you to explain why these Playford-following Elizabethan morris dancers used "half-gypsy" for what Playford called "sides all". -- Alan

8 years, 6 months

[Callers] Fw: Gypsy terms (Re: Callers Digest, Vol 18, Issue 16)

by Michael Fuerst via Callers

Hmmm...... Although I remain completely unperturbed by our new g-word, Fred Park's "a nose-to-nose do-si-do" description inspired other ideas for a surrogate. How about "dance [or orbit] around" or "dance [or orbit] about" ? Any of these are as easy or easier for a caller to proclaim than "do-si-do" or "ladies chain." Michael Fuerst 802 N Broadway Urbana IL 61801 217 239 5844 #yiv2862906804 #yiv2862906804 -- DIV {margin:0px;}#yiv2862906804

8 years, 6 months

[Callers] Female caller for one-time beginners party on Long Island

by Jacob or Nancy Bloom via Callers

I've been contacted by someone who is looking for a female square dance caller for a party on Long Island, NY, in December or January. The attendees will be 50 twelve-year-old girls. If anyone would be interested in calling for this gig, please contact me off-list. Jacob Bloom jandnbloom(a)gmail.com

8 years, 6 months

Re: [Callers] Historical derivation of term "Gypsy"

by Jeff Kaufman via Callers

Sharp uses the term "whole-gip" in part II of the country dance book. I have scans here: http://www.jefftk.com/p/history-of-the-term-gypsy He doesn't use the figure in the first part at all. On Oct 26, 2015 8:13 PM, "Jacob or Nancy Bloom via Callers" < callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > I've changed the name on the thread, to reflect the change of subject to > historical background. > > I acknowledge Alan's point, that, unless a pre-Cecil Sharp source shows up > for the use of the term 'gypsy' as a country dance figure, the bulk of my > hypothesis falls apart. > > As for the use of the terms 'gyp' and 'gypsy' in Morris dance, *The > Morris Book* by Cecil Sharp and Herbert Macilwaine defines the figure > "Half-Hands or Half-Gip" in part I, page 65, and defines the figure > "Whole-Gip or Gipsies" on page 32 of Part III. > > No explanation for the derivation of the terms is given in either volume. > > I do not have a copy of Sharp's Country Dance Book at hand. Did someone > say that Sharp did not use the term gypsy in it? > > Jacob > > On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 4:40 AM, Alan Winston <winston(a)slac.stanford.edu> > wrote: > >> >> >> On 10/24/15 10:32 PM, Jacob Nancy Bloom via Callers wrote: >> >> See the link below for more information on the dance The Spanish Gypsy >> (or Jeepsie), the song from which the tune for the dance came, and the 1623 >> play from which the song came, which had the title "The Spanish Gypsy". >> >> http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/lod/vol4/spanish_gipsy.html >> >> I'll go out on a limb and make some historical pronouncements which >> cannot be proven, but which seem most probable to me: >> >> The dance title The Spanish Gypsy came from the dance being done to a >> tune associated with the play The Spanish Gypsy. >> >> Sure, extremely plausible. >> >> The dance figure Gypsy got its name from the prevalence of the figure in >> the dance The Spanish Gypsy. >> >> >> If true, only true in the modern revival. (Basically, Cecil Sharp made >> up *and named* the Gypsy figure. In Spanish Jeepsie - reconstructed at the >> link you have above- the figure isn't a gypsy, and it isn't called a >> gypsy. It's a back to back.) >> >> Point me toward dance notation published before 1900 that uses the term >> "gypsy" as the name of a figure, and then we can talk. Until there's some >> evidence that Elizabethan dancers used the figure name, your argument dies >> here. >> >> The Morris dance figures whole-gyp and half-gyp were originally called >> whole-gypsy and half-gypsy. (Although parts of England had and ancient >> tradition of seasonal dancing under the name Morris Dance, it seems likely, >> from the nature of the dances, that the form of the Cotswold dance >> traditions collected by Cecil Sharp only went back to the Elizabethan >> period.) >> >> I think you're saying that Cotswold dances as collected by Sharp and >> others reflected Elizabethan country dances as shown in Playford, and that >> whole-gyp and half-gyp were therefore originally named after the (notional) >> country dance figure and were thus properly named whole-gypsy and >> half-gypsy. Please correct me if I've misunderstood this. >> >> This is irrelevant unless you can show that Elizabethan country dance >> actually had a figure called gypsy, which you haven't. (And it's actually >> irrelevant even if you can, since once you draw a line from the play to the >> tune to the dance you've said what you can about it not being an ethnic >> stereotype.) >> >> But if it *were* relevant, I'd ask you to explain why these >> Playford-following Elizabethan morris dancers used "half-gypsy" for what >> Playford called "sides all". >> >> -- Alan >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net > >

8 years, 6 months

[Callers] Historical derivation of term "Gypsy"

by Jacob or Nancy Bloom via Callers

I've changed the name on the thread, to reflect the change of subject to historical background. I acknowledge Alan's point, that, unless a pre-Cecil Sharp source shows up for the use of the term 'gypsy' as a country dance figure, the bulk of my hypothesis falls apart. As for the use of the terms 'gyp' and 'gypsy' in Morris dance, *The Morris Book* by Cecil Sharp and Herbert Macilwaine defines the figure "Half-Hands or Half-Gip" in part I, page 65, and defines the figure "Whole-Gip or Gipsies" on page 32 of Part III. No explanation for the derivation of the terms is given in either volume. I do not have a copy of Sharp's Country Dance Book at hand. Did someone say that Sharp did not use the term gypsy in it? Jacob On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 4:40 AM, Alan Winston <winston(a)slac.stanford.edu> wrote: > > > On 10/24/15 10:32 PM, Jacob Nancy Bloom via Callers wrote: > > See the link below for more information on the dance The Spanish Gypsy (or > Jeepsie), the song from which the tune for the dance came, and the 1623 > play from which the song came, which had the title "The Spanish Gypsy". > > http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/lod/vol4/spanish_gipsy.html > > I'll go out on a limb and make some historical pronouncements which cannot > be proven, but which seem most probable to me: > > The dance title The Spanish Gypsy came from the dance being done to a tune > associated with the play The Spanish Gypsy. > > Sure, extremely plausible. > > The dance figure Gypsy got its name from the prevalence of the figure in > the dance The Spanish Gypsy. > > > If true, only true in the modern revival. (Basically, Cecil Sharp made up > *and named* the Gypsy figure. In Spanish Jeepsie - reconstructed at the > link you have above- the figure isn't a gypsy, and it isn't called a > gypsy. It's a back to back.) > > Point me toward dance notation published before 1900 that uses the term > "gypsy" as the name of a figure, and then we can talk. Until there's some > evidence that Elizabethan dancers used the figure name, your argument dies > here. > > The Morris dance figures whole-gyp and half-gyp were originally called > whole-gypsy and half-gypsy. (Although parts of England had and ancient > tradition of seasonal dancing under the name Morris Dance, it seems likely, > from the nature of the dances, that the form of the Cotswold dance > traditions collected by Cecil Sharp only went back to the Elizabethan > period.) > > I think you're saying that Cotswold dances as collected by Sharp and > others reflected Elizabethan country dances as shown in Playford, and that > whole-gyp and half-gyp were therefore originally named after the (notional) > country dance figure and were thus properly named whole-gypsy and > half-gypsy. Please correct me if I've misunderstood this. > > This is irrelevant unless you can show that Elizabethan country dance > actually had a figure called gypsy, which you haven't. (And it's actually > irrelevant even if you can, since once you draw a line from the play to the > tune to the dance you've said what you can about it not being an ethnic > stereotype.) > > But if it *were* relevant, I'd ask you to explain why these > Playford-following Elizabethan morris dancers used "half-gypsy" for what > Playford called "sides all". > > -- Alan >

8 years, 6 months

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Import1 October 2015