The structure of a classic blues song is 12 bars long (24 beats). Modern blues bands do play a lot of tunes that are not in this structure. In any case it might be interesting to think about contras that are or could be made to be 48 or 72 beats long, rather than 64.
R
Richard Hopkins
850-544-7614
Hopkinsrs(a)comcast.net
Sent from my iPhone
> On Oct 18, 2015, at 4:01 PM, via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Dances For Short Line (Louie.cromartie via Callers)
> 2. Re: Dances For Short Line (Linda Leslie via Callers)
> 3. Musical styles for a Barn Dance question
> (Leslie Gotfrit via Callers)
> 4. Re: Musical styles for a Barn Dance question
> (John Rogers via Callers)
> 5. Re: Musical styles for a Barn Dance question
> (JD Erskine iDance via Callers)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 16:32:15 -0400
> From: "Louie.cromartie via Callers" <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
> To: Martha Wild <mawild(a)sbcglobal.net>
> Cc: sharedweight <callers(a)sharedweight.net>
> Subject: Re: [Callers] Dances For Short Line
> Message-ID: <C99FE837-4B91-4DDB-8469-645083D7DAB5(a)gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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> Just curious. Robert doesn't recall writing (or calling) a dance called Saint Louis Cruise. Perhaps it was created by someone else.
> -Louie (not a saint)
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> Today's Topics:
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> 1. Re: Dances For Short Line (Louie.cromartie via Callers)
> 2. Re: Dances For Short Line (Linda Leslie via Callers)
> 3. Musical styles for a Barn Dance question
> (Leslie Gotfrit via Callers)
> 4. Re: Musical styles for a Barn Dance question
> (John Rogers via Callers)
> 5. Re: Musical styles for a Barn Dance question
> (JD Erskine iDance via Callers)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 16:32:15 -0400
> From: "Louie.cromartie via Callers" <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
> To: Martha Wild <mawild(a)sbcglobal.net>
> Cc: sharedweight <callers(a)sharedweight.net>
> Subject: Re: [Callers] Dances For Short Line
> Message-ID: <C99FE837-4B91-4DDB-8469-645083D7DAB5(a)gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Just curious. Robert doesn't recall writing (or calling) a dance called Saint Louis Cruise. Perhaps it was created by someone else.
> -Louie (not a saint)
>
>> On Oct 16, 2015, at 12:56 AM, Martha Wild via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>
>> It's a good time to call dances that might need extra space along the line - for example, there are some dances with a ladies chain up and down as opposed to across the set such as Saint Louis Cruise by Robert Cromartie.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 17:12:51 -0400
> From: Linda Leslie via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
> To: "Louie.cromartie" <louie.cromartie(a)gmail.com>
> Cc: sharedweight <callers(a)sharedweight.net>
> Subject: Re: [Callers] Dances For Short Line
> Message-ID: <F564544E-28C1-4939-8285-71308A7036B1(a)comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>
> I believe it was written by Roger Diggle?.
> Linda
>
>> On Oct 17, 2015, at 4:32 PM, Louie.cromartie via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>
>> Just curious. Robert doesn't recall writing (or calling) a dance called Saint Louis Cruise. Perhaps it was created by someone else.
>> -Louie (not a saint)
>>
>>> On Oct 16, 2015, at 12:56 AM, Martha Wild via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> It's a good time to call dances that might need extra space along the line - for example, there are some dances with a ladies chain up and down as opposed to across the set such as Saint Louis Cruise by Robert Cromartie.
>> _______________________________________________
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 21:02:33 -0600
> From: Leslie Gotfrit via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
> To: callers(a)sharedweight.net
> Subject: [Callers] Musical styles for a Barn Dance question
> Message-ID: <00563DE5-85B3-4272-810C-6A2CC08B86F8(a)me.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>
> I?ve been asked to call a one hour set in a rural heritage hall for a party for about 130 folks. There will be two sets at the end of the evening with a Blues Band. Yep, its a bit odd, but the organizer wants to bring all his various friends together and thought, rightly, that having someone organize some dancing would help that along. Has anyone ever called a community dance (circle mixers, scatter sets, longways, maybe a square) to a blues band? The band seems willing to work with me. Any suggestions about what to say to them so that I could call La Bastringue or Galopede, for example, and it would work?
>
> Any suggestions for youtube links for a caller calling to something other than the usual trad tune? I could bring in a fiddler and ask the band to back the fiddler up. Any advice on doing it that way?
>
> Is this so ridiculous that you?re all doubled over laughing? People will be there not because they are blues lovers so much as their buddy is throwing a party.
>
> In any case, I?d be grateful for advice
> Leslie Gotfrit
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2015 00:24:52 -0700
> From: John Rogers via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
> To: Leslie Gotfrit <lgotfrit(a)me.com>
> Cc: "callers(a)sharedweight.net" <callers(a)sharedweight.net>
> Subject: Re: [Callers] Musical styles for a Barn Dance question
> Message-ID: <65CF175B-3ADF-4823-9D15-A42D75F21167(a)icloud.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> With the right cooperation from the band it could work out just fine. I've called contras to all sorts of music, including Romanian folksongs. But, you do need to talk with them about the fact that every tune needs to be 32 bars and of uniform tempo. (And the tempo should be an appropriate one.) The AABB structure that we are used to is nice, but you can probably cope with ABCD if that is what they will play. It will help if you can get a recording of them playing, so you can get used to timing your calls.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Oct 17, 2015, at 8:02 PM, Leslie Gotfrit via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>
>> I?ve been asked to call a one hour set in a rural heritage hall for a party for about 130 folks. There will be two sets at the end of the evening with a Blues Band. Yep, its a bit odd, but the organizer wants to bring all his various friends together and thought, rightly, that having someone organize some dancing would help that along. Has anyone ever called a community dance (circle mixers, scatter sets, longways, maybe a square) to a blues band? The band seems willing to work with me. Any suggestions about what to say to them so that I could call La Bastringue or Galopede, for example, and it would work?
>>
>> Any suggestions for youtube links for a caller calling to something other than the usual trad tune? I could bring in a fiddler and ask the band to back the fiddler up. Any advice on doing it that way?
>>
>> Is this so ridiculous that you?re all doubled over laughing? People will be there not because they are blues lovers so much as their buddy is throwing a party.
>>
>> In any case, I?d be grateful for advice
>> Leslie Gotfrit
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2015 01:12:55 -0700
> From: JD Erskine iDance via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
> To: callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> Subject: Re: [Callers] Musical styles for a Barn Dance question
> Message-ID: <56235487.2060704(a)shaw.ca>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
> On 2015-10-17 2002, Leslie Gotfrit via Callers wrote:
> snip
>
>> In any case, I?d be grateful for advice
>> Leslie Gotfrit
>
> Try it. Maybe. <grin>
>
> I worked a Contra series dance with my first (advertised as such) old
> time band tonight. The No Jigs thing initially felt a bit unsettling,
> however the musicianship and music was great. No medleys, which I'm fine
> with, and a bit of joint effort looking for variety had it work out
> well. I'd mentioned all the basic parameters and communications points
> prior to the event and tonight we went over them before the intro
> session this series hosts.
>
> This past summer I worked with my first Bluegrass band. I'd been
> concerned a bit with that as well. A "Contra", really a barn dance/ONS
> on "grass" (beaten down by the sheep for a few years), worked out well.
>
> I covered off the points John Rogers made about tempo, length with both
> of them. Also starts and endings, who to talk to about what, how to
> speed up/slow down (if possible.) All the usual things.
>
> A few weeks ago I attended a free, intro night of MWSD. The point I took
> away from that was that someone could really use any music if it met the
> basic criteria. There were Beatles tunes/songs, pop "standards" and
> such. Not much in the way of tune as many of us might generally expect
> or appreciate.
>
> A number of callers I've experienced have offered the old saw that a
> dancers need for rhythm might just as easily be met by a drum stick
> attached to a car wiper as a band.
>
> If the band is not an established one, or don't have a recording, some
> practises/time with several of them playing prior to the event might
> prove useful. It might also be a chance to introduce some of the key points.
>
> A friend was working with a "Celtic" band a winter ago and had to work
> mostly on -- endurance, even tempo, how to start and end. Doing so
> seemed to suck up quite a bit of energy and take several sessions.
>
> So, it appears it is also good to know when to bail on an idea in some
> fashion if it appears bleak. For any of these one may require more lead
> time/contact time that might be expected.
>
> Cheers, John
> --
> J.D. Erskine
> Victoria, BC
>
> Island Dance - Folk & Country
> Vancouver Island & BC islands
> dance info - site & mail list
> http://members.shaw.ca/island.dance/
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> End of Callers Digest, Vol 18, Issue 11
> ***************************************
On 2015-10-18 1652, Rich Dempsey via Callers wrote:
snip
> I love the use of shorter sets to bring asymmetric dances out for a
> spin. Chestnuts and triplets and triple minors come to mind. In the
> circumstance that started this thread, a hearty Chorus Jig sounds like
> a win.
>
> Rich
It's nice to have 7 couples to make a Triple Minor work well. Doing so
keeps a relatively high number of folks from standing out at some point.
One may also dance a Triple Minor as in the Scottish Country dance
standardised way of using a four couple set. There it is oft referred to
as "a dance for three couples in a four couple set."
Triplets are great fun, as can be other Whole Set dances. In them one
effectively gets to dance with many of the others in the set.
Kathy Anderson ran a workshop some years back at a Contra dance weekend
I was at covering dances for strange, small or mixed numbers, or some
such name. Good fun. Wish I could find the notes from it.
Not be missed are "other" country dances which, as they are not in a
Longways Set For As Many As Will, 1s Improper formation, have largely
been relegated in perception to the role of
barn/community/family/ceilidh/eceilidh dance events. Not "proper"
Contra. Check them out.
Some are once-and-to-the-bottom, others shift within a given dance
between dancing in duple minor sets to a whole set figure and back.
It's all dance.
The now late James Barber, television cooking show host we had "up/over
here" a few years back (The Urban Peasant), had a catch phrase of, "Use
what you got." That might apply here, for numbers, for choices.
Cheers, John
--
J.D. Erskine
Victoria, BC
Island Dance - Folk & Country
Vancouver Island & BC islands
dance info - site & mail list
http://members.shaw.ca/island.dance/
I'm more thinking lines with maybe 5 or 6 sets, the smaller groups I think I have an understanding of, but I'm sucking in any other observations, of course.
Would medley's work for a smaller line?
L ~ When I dance, I cannot judge, I cannot hate, I cannot separate myself from life. I can only be joyful and whole, that is why I dance. ~Hans Bos~ ~
On Thursday, October 15, 2015 9:35 PM, Jack Mitchell <jmitchell.nc(a)gmail.com> wrote:
If the numbers work out, then some triplets or squares could be good. If it's a lot of new dancers, you could even do some dances that just the top couple is "active" like the virginia reel or galopade (or lots of other older dances). If you have lots of experienced dancers, you could either do medleys or run the dances much shorter than usual. Also, it can be a good time to do an unequal dance since everyone will have time to be 1's -- was calling in Greenwood, VA for a relatively small group -- maybe 4 -5 hands 4 -- and called Fiddleheads for the first time. Such a great dance.
J
On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 7:49 PM Laur via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Fellow callers, what are things to look for in dances for a short line. I'm afraid that a limited number of dancers will be at an upcoming gig and I want to be prepared in the best possible way, and so am looking for input and for confirmation of my thoughts. They are intermediate/ experienced dancers.
Laurie PWest MI ~ When I dance, I cannot judge, I cannot hate, I cannot separate myself from life. I can only be joyful and whole, that is why I dance. ~Hans Bos~ ~_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
--
Jack Mitchell
Durham, NC
Same dance, but the formation is already set up with a square of 4 and a 5th couple facing couple 1.Do the Dip & Dive once or twice thru - until back to original positions.Couples 1 & 5 circle half (or equiv) -- Outside 4 couples now circle 3/4.Begin again.
Alternative: each couple can 1/2 promenade in and out of the center to progress one position.
Maybe call it tonight up in Chesterfield, MA but those "Eastern" old timers like to keep it in squaresunless it's Oh Johnny, Climbing Up Them Golden Squares or Wearing of the Green.
Bob LivingstonMiddletown, CT
From: Rich Sbardella <richsbardella(a)gmail.com>
To: Tom Hinds <twhinds(a)earthlink.net>; Robert Livingston <rlivngstn(a)yahoo.com>
Cc: Laur <lcpgr(a)yahoo.com>; "callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net" <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 6:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Callers] Dances For Short Line
Bob Livingston has another great Dip and Dive for a five couple square. Perhaps he will share it.Rich
On Fri, Oct 16, 2015 at 5:33 PM, Tom Hinds via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Laur,
Even with great music and calling it's tough to create excitement when the hall feels empty. I've tried to think of everything I can do to make that kind of evening fun. My personal choice is to call a large proportion of contras where the dancers swing their partner not their neighbor. The logic is this: If you swing your neighbor in every dance, especially early in the evening, what is there to look forward to? With partner swing dances only, when you get a new partner you haven't swung him/her 10 times before hand.
In general I usually run contras until everyone has swung their neighbors and then end the dance. So for me contras with a partner only swing is preferred when numbers are small.
And I include many dances that are in other formations and also take some time to teach and dance. Here's one.
Dip and Dive for Five (my name)
Formation is a small circle of 4 couples numbered 1-5. There's sort of a home place but this is not critical.
I learned this from Fred Park and if my memory is correct it comes form the border area between West Virginia and Ky.
Couple 1 swings in the center of the set, others form a square around couple 1.
Couple 1 faces up or down, heads dip and dive- takes 16 beats
Couple 1 faces a side couple, dip and dive....
8 dancers join hands and go forward and back. Go forward and back again and bring couple 1 back where they belong.
Break
Allemande left grand right and left. With partner, turn back (5th hand is with partner and is a left allemande). Swing partner at "home".
I usually call break, figure, break, figure etc.....
Tom
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Fellow callers, what are things to look for in dances for a short line. I'm afraid that a limited number of dancers will be at an upcoming gig and I want to be prepared in the best possible way, and so am looking for input and for confirmation of my thoughts. They are intermediate/ experienced dancers.
Laurie PWest MI ~ When I dance, I cannot judge, I cannot hate, I cannot separate myself from life. I can only be joyful and whole, that is why I dance. ~Hans Bos~ ~
Dear All,
Been reading this list serve series of posts now for about a year or so.
I love the off handed comment that lends humor and insight so:
“Moderation in all things, including moderation!”
More another time . . .
Frederick Park
------------------------------
On Oct 12, 2015, at 8:20 PM, Andy Shore via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
I've found this thread very informative, thanks for all the thoughtful observations.
Having just returned from a weekend as a dancer, I can add one more:
It is indeed possible to over-use rolling starts!
/Andy
Thanks Dave, Alan and Sue for catching me up!
Kalia
On 10/6/2015 10:27 AM, Dave Casserly wrote:
> Done.
>
> On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 1:15 PM, Kalia Kliban via Callers
> <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net <mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net>>
> wrote:
>
>
> If Woody sent a message to the list on this subject, I seem to have
> misplaced it. I'd be grateful if someone could forward it to me
> offline. I've been wrestling with this subject myself.
>
> Kalia
>
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Paul,
Thanks for mentioning mescolanzas (a/k/a 4-face-4 or Portland Fancy
formation dances). I'll try to pick out a couple where the figures
aren't expansive lengthwise and have them ready for possible use
depending on how I see the dancers fitting into the available space.
I'll make a couple comments on space requirements of 4-face-4 dances
below. Meanwhile I hope people will keep contributing other ideas
(both general suggestions and specific dances) for contra dances in
crowded halls.
* * * * * * * * * *
I think people often misjudge the space requirements for 4-face-4
dances, both in term of width and length.
I've sometimes seen callers combine four contra sets into two
4-face-4 sets (and leave them like that) at times when I thought
that three 4-face-4 sets would have fit comfortably into the width
of the hall and would have been much more comfortable than two
sets in terms of length. By conrast, I once saw a caller--wisely,
in my opinion--put dancers into four 4-face-4 sets at a dance
weekend where, as far as I'd noticed, the best-attended sessions
had never had more than five regular contra lines, and where six
contra lines might have felt just a little bit crowded in width.
Dancers may line up for a 4-face-4 with foursomes closer to each
other than optimal, particularly if the dance includes a figure
that is expansive lengthwise. Consider, for example, Al Olsen's
"First Bloom" [see _Zesty Contras_ or RPDLW syllabi for 2007 and
2009], where dancers get into a temporary square and the ladies
do a grand chain over and back. If foursomes start out too closely
spaced, the "square" will end up having head couples close together
and side couples far apart, and the chain will become awkward, both
because the head ladies have to wait for the side ladies to rush to
the center and because the head ladies will be uncomfortably close
to dancers in the next group up or down the set during the courtesy
turns. If the caller suggests, before the walk-through, that
dancers stretch their sets to use the full length of the hall, and
if the dancers respond half-heartedly, the caller might get better
results by repeating the suggestion *after* the walk-through or,
if convenient, just after walking through ladies' grand chain (or
whatever figure in a particular dance is most in need of space
along the set).
--Jim
In a couple weeks, I'm scheduled to call at a contra dance series
whose usual hall is unavailable for that evening. The alternative
hall where I'll be calling is smaller than the usual one, so may
be rather crowded. I'd like to have anyone's suggestions of
contras suitable for a crowded hall.
Being more crowded than usual might also mean that it will be
hotter than usual, especially in the later part of the evening,
when we'll need to close windows on account of noise restrictions.
So I'd like to the program to include some dances that give people
a chance to relax a little, and that can be done at moderate tempo
without feeling draggy.
The series is well established series of the "modern urban contra"
sort. While I don't want to have people crashing into each other
if it's crowded, and I don't want to wear them out if it's hot, I
also don't want to stray too far from dancers' expectations of
most dances having both partner and neighbor swings, etc.
[In case anyone's wondering, I do have a copy of the CDSS booklet
"Dances for a Crowded Hall"m which talks about stuff like avoiding
expansive figures. The specific dances listed in that book,
however, are English Country Dances.]
Thanks in advance for any ideas.
--Jim
Back in September, we discussed a topic raised by Maia McCormick:
> ...
>
> There do exist some really fabulous shadow-swing dances that I would love to be able to call, as long as I could do so without putting anyone in an uncomfortable position. Do folks have ideas for ways to mitigate the potential harms of shadow swing dances?
[See below for Maia's full message.]
I've had an idea that I don't think anyone mentioned. First, a
disclaimer: I don't imagine that what I'm about to say will
sway any of you who are dead-set against shadow swings in any
circumstances. However, if you feel compelled to reiterate your
opposition, I hope you'll have the courtesy to respect Maia's
original request and do so under a different "Subject" line.
Anyway, my idea is: Use the occasion as a "teachable moment".
When you get to the shadow swing during the walk-through, or
perhaps during the second walk-through, point out to the
dancers that they'll be swinging the same person every time,
and give them a chance to discuss what is or isn't comfortable
for them. You might give examples: "Please don't dig you're
thumb into my neck", "My arm is not a pump handle', "Not too
fast", "Not so close", etc. Or you could make general remarks
about believing you shadow if they say something hurts, or
about how the person whose less interested in being flirty is
the one who gets to decide, etc. And remind people to that
they can make additional adjustments during the dance.
Exactly what points you (the caller) want to mention, what
words you choose, whether to employ humor, etc., will depend
on what fits your personality, what you see as the likely
issues in the particular community, how much time you feel
you can spend before moving along with the dance, etc.
Note that this idea can be applied to shadow interactions
other than swings.
For example, if a dance has an allemande with shadows, you
might let women and men (or dancers in those roles) take turns
showing each other their preferred hand holds, strength of
connection, etc. You might encourage them, if they have
different preferences, to give each other's suggestions a
fair try, but with the very important proviso (better stated
sooner than later) that nobody should be pressured into
doing something they think may be painful.
If the action with shadows is a chain or a right and left
through, you could give dancers a chance to talk about their
preferences regarding twirls or about making the courtesy
turns feel comfortably connected without being *too*
comfy cosy for anyone's comfort.
You could also occasionally invite people (and give them
some time) to have such discussions with their partners.
Just a thought.
--Jim
> On Sep 8, 2015, at 8:06 AM, Maia McCormick via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> Hey all,
>
> First, a disclaimer: Some people on this listserv thing shadow swings are problematic. Some don't see any issue with them. This is NOT the conversation I want to have in this thread; I ask that you respond to the question I'm asking and do not debate my premise--at least not in this particular thread. This should help keep this thread on track and hopefully reduce excess noise and go-nowhere discussions on this listserv. Thanks!
>
> Anyway, the actual question I wanted to ask (whew!)--
>
> There do exist some really fabulous shadow-swing dances that I would love to be able to call, as long as I could do so without putting anyone in an uncomfortable position. Do folks have ideas for ways to mitigate the potential harms of shadow swing dances? I was considering, at the beginning of the dance, having dancers identify their shadow and mentioning, "this will be a shadow swing dance, so if you need to make any changes, do so now" (or something like that)--haven't gotten the wording down-pat, but the idea is giving dancers advance warning of a shadow swing so they can move (thereby changing their shadow) if they need to. Any thoughts on this method? Suggestions of others?
>
> Cheers.
> Maia
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