Organizers

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Re: Is it time to change our mask mandates?

by Peter Martel

Thanks Seth for helping to reset the tone. Agreed folks need to feel like they can share perspectives without concern. The OP’s question was: > “I am very curious about what other organizers think. Is it time? And what should be our criteria for lifting our mandates?” That suggests a broader response beyond just what others are doing. For me the broader sharing along with the thinking behind it and related experiences and implications is helpful. There are many way to think and decide, so knowing the thinking beyond just the policy I lends to better decisions. Do we do what’s best for the most people? What is best? At the hospital, folks are asked to wear a mask to make others more comfortable. Do we expect the same from our dancers? I thought Woody shared most of what I was thinking. Specifically, contra dances made be the best way to spread disease. That said, maybe also good for building immunity, if we all survive. For me, important is the idea that I wear a mask mostly for others. For those who are immune compromised, and because people are still dying. I like the idea of different lines, and even alternating dances, where masks are required or not. This give options to everyone. But I also recall a suggestion a while back; we can go back to “normal” when COVID numbers align with Flu numbers. We all should know that varies significantly from year to year, both in transmission and severity, so it’s not an exact answer but a reasonable place to shoot for, and a risk level most folks tend to accept. So everyone knows, we have been dancing every Monday since January, with N95 masks required. We didn’t choose to ask for proof of vaccine. No problems with compliance, from young and old. Doesn’t seem to affect anyone’s ability to dance. Participant numbers are down, but then that seems to be the case generally for all post COVID events. We expect numbers to increase over time. Maybe we’ll try alternating mask weeks and see what that does to our numbers. 🤔 Full disclosure: I’ll be helping the OP make the decision for MFS. Because we host a weekly dance alternating mask requirements each week is more viable than a monthly dance. But we plan to restart a (hopefully) larger monthly Saturday dance soon so the mask question has greater implications. Sent from miHand, Peter ‘…the slimmest of instructions, “To use your gifts and dreams for good.” ’ — From Braiding Sweetgrass by Robin Wall Kimmerer > On Apr 12, 2023, at 11:07 AM, Seth Seeger via Organizers <organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > > * People are asking what others are doing. Not asking for advice on what they should be doing. Please don't offer unsolicited advice. I think it is useful to hear what is happening at other dances. But if there is going to be negative/critical feedback, people will not share.

1 year, 8 months

Is it time to change our mask mandates?

by Lisa Sieverts

Hello fellow organizers, I have been a big proponent of our dance mask mandates and feel we have prevented quite a bit of COVID spread by requiring good facemasks. However, our local hospital has announced that after 3 years of a mask mandate for everyone entering their building (it’s both a hospital and a medical center), they are lifting the mandate on April 10 for anyone asymptomatic and who hasn’t had a recent COVID contact. Our board will be discussing this soon but I am very curious about what other organizers think. Is it time? And what should be our criteria for lifting our mandates? Best, Lisa Monadnock Folklore Society Nelson, NH Lisa Sieverts 603-762-0235 lisa(a)lisasieverts.com

1 year, 8 months

Re: REMINDER TO SAY WHERE YOU DANCE. : Is it time to change our mask mandates?

by Peter Martel

1 year, 8 months

Re: Is it time to change our mask mandates?

by Jon Greene

Yes, Don I was being a little tongue in cheek and I apologize for that. I was in a bit of a rush when I wrote that. Here's a fuller response. Mac is almost certainly correct in claiming that mask wearing is less risky than no mask wearing with respect to community spread. But implicit in his response is that whatever risk remains is an acceptable one. It certainly is to him (and me) and probably everyone reading this. But one can imagine people for whom this lower risk would still be unacceptable. Such people might look at contra dancing as a selfish, recreational activity that during a pandemic endangers the health of the wider community. They would have a point. The only risk-free dance is no dance. Now, fortunately, there are health organizations that provide guidance to all of us on matters of public health. We don't have to set policies based on the least or the most risk averse people in our community. We can look to these organizations for guidance. They don't set their risk tolerance thresholds at zero just like water departments don't set the acceptable parts per million of e coli in the water supply at zero. A certain amount of risk is acceptable (yay, we can all have a contra dance!). The premiere such health organization in our country is the Centers for Disease Control. In our dance community in Berkshire Count, MA, we decided to simply follow CDC COVID-19 guidelines, not reinterpret them or add to them, just follow them. Ever since our dance restarted last July, the CDC guidelines with respect to mask wearing in indoor spaces is that everyone should be masked if the community spread level of the virus is high (red). If it is low (green) or medium (yellow), certain individuals should be masked (e.g., the immunocompromised, those with a known recent COVID exposure, etc.) and anyone who wishes to mask, certainly can, but the CDC does *not* explicitly recommend that *everyone* masks. So, neither do we. If the community spread level is high, we simply cancel the dance (which we've never actually had to do). We have followed the same guidance for COVID-19 vaccinations and boosters. The CDC has made it very clear that the purpose of the COVID-19 vaccination program is to prevent severe infections, not stop transmission, which makes sense given how poorly the vaccines have done at stopping transmission. So we don't exclude unvaccinated or partially vaccinated dancers from our dance because, as organizers, we are only concerned about transmission at our dance, not what health choices people might make for themselves. - Jon Greene (Lenox contra dance organizer) On Sun, Apr 9, 2023 at 11:16 AM Don Peabody <donpeabody(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Jon— > > You may be using sarcasm, but I agree with what you’ve said. > > Love to you all— > > Don > > > On Apr 9, 2023, at 10:23 AM, Jon Greene via Organizers < > organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > > > > Mac, > > > > I guess none of us then should really be contra dancing at all because > dancing surely creates more transmission risk than not dancing. And for a > recreational activity that, unlike earning a living, is not even a > necessity. > > > > - Jon Greene > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > >> On Apr 8, 2023, at 5:27 PM, Walker Sloan via Organizers < > organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > >> > >> > >> Becoming infected by Covid today is a lower risk to the individual than > at the start of the pandemic. > >> > >> However, becoming infected by Covid is also an opportunity for the > Covid virus to be transmitted to others, and to mutate. > >> > >> R0 is the number of people that an infected individual is likely to > infect. > >> > >> R0 was 5.4 in Dec 2022. > >> > >> XBB.1.5 is estimated to be 82% of all Covid cases today. > >> > >> 5.4 and 82% are not numbers influenced by communities or individuals > attitudes towards risk. Only by community and individual behavior. > >> > >> People who assume increased risk for themselves are also assuming > increased risk for 5.4 other people. > >> > >> Masks, vaxes, and emails mitigate risks. > >> > >> These data are from an article published by a reputable university > hospital last month on Mar 17 2023. Scroll to the last page for R0. > >> > >> > https://www.ohsu.edu/sites/default/files/2023-03/Oregon-Hospital-Forecast-T… > >> > >> Mac Sloan > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net > >> To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net > > _______________________________________________ > > Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net > > To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net > >

1 year, 8 months

Listserv dynamics

by Chrissy Fowler

Dear organizers, On a slightly different topic, when I read Darlene's post, I nodded my head at this: I seldom chime in on things, though I lurk in the background, due to people going on the defense or sometimes attacking. I am only posting so you have some information on what we are doing here in our part of the world. This has been true for me lately. (But Darlene's willingness to share emboldened me to share data from our dance series. Thanks Darlene!) I hope that this list can be a place where divergent experiences are shared, and where those varied perspectives are received respectfully, knowing they're offered with the intent of helping others in their organizing work. When I have questions or seek clarification or want to challenge that perspective, I know that I can either pursue those conversations off list (1:1 email, phone call or in person) or I can respond on the list with careful kindness and respect, hoping that the other person will respond in kind. When a listserv devolves into attacking or defensiveness, then the list members are effectively silencing people like Darlene. Which is a loss for all of us. But when many voices are heard, I learn new things, have my assumptions challenged, and get nudged into more complex thinking. And I can return to my community with fresh ideas. Which is the point of this listserv :) Cheers, Chrissy <><><><><><> chrissyfowler.com<http://www.chrissyfowler.com> dance leadership belfastflyingshoes.org<http://www.belfastflyingshoes.org> participatory dance & music

1 year, 8 months

New England Venue Search

by Liz Burkhart

Hi, I'm with Lavender Country and Folk Dancers. We've been running queer dance camps in New England for around 30 years. Covid has messed up our venue situation, so we're searching for a new venue in the general New England region for our fall dance camp, which is usually in the 3rd weekend of October. Does anyone have any suggestions? It must have a dance floor, cabins/dorms for attendees, and be run by LGBTQ+ friendly people. It would be for ~80-150 attendees. I think we also need food to be provided by the venue's staff (that might be negotiable). Money generally not an issue. We will be having our spring camp at Pinewoods for the first time this year, which is exciting! We're looking for a different venue for fall. Thank you!

1 year, 9 months

Band(s) needed

by Mary Collins

Covid & elder ailments has wiped out my basket of bands. I am in need of music for April 14 and possibly some summer & fall dates. We welcome new bands that need dances under their belts! As always the pay sucks, negotiations for some travel relief is available. Nativedae(a)gmail.com Thanks! Mary "from Buffalo", not. Collins

1 year, 9 months

Need ideas/feedback about how to get new dancers to return

by Sandy Seiler

Newbies are not returning my thoughts... Why? not feeling welcome?, feeling intimidated/too hard? Coming late to lesson and being lost/confused during dance? Lack of feeling of mastery/learning? Need follow up lesson since we only dance 1x/month? One month is a long time to wait for another lesson. Not enough younger dancers like themselves? Ideas: 1. Use beginner friendly buttons 2. Ask experienced dancers to dance with beginners for first 2 dances at least. Board members lead by example. 3. Encourage experienced dancers to come for the beginner lesson to welcome/socialize with new dancers. 4. Have caller or one of us give out free passes (pass for next dance) at the lesson so we don't have to remember to do it at the table. We gave out 15 free passes to new dancers in Feb and did not get any to return in March. (March dance was on 2nd sat instead of our normal 3rd sat and it's spring break. Feb attendance 61, March 38 (paid dancers, not including 3 listeners). Also there was a local magazine article about LBDA in February and we had our most experienced and popular contra dance band (Kaw Creek) playing. 5. Our Lesson is at 7:00, Dance 7:30. Should we use start time 7:00 in advertising bc experienced dancers will figure it out and adjust to coming at 7:30 more easily than new people knowing they need to come at 7:00 for the lesson. New people attending and being on time for 7:00 lesson is important for a smooth dance so do we need to advertise that way? Want experienced dancers to be there to meet and socialize with them so they can be better integrated into the community and not feel so awkward. I have suggested this to our board before, but was told that would be manipulative toward experienced dancers who would be upset that they came too early and wasted their time. That feels like a very unwelcoming attitude, and I would like to encourage all our dancers to consider that 7:00 is our start time because beginners are important and we need to be there to greet them and socialize. 6. Schedule a 1 hour lesson or series of lessons led by experienced callers Lisa and or Jill and a couple new callers... before the dance? On a different day? Through Parks and Rec this summer? 7. New dancers are far outnumbering experienced dancers. Need to do advanced dance to pull back in some dancers who drifted away after the pandemic. Contact individually by phone/email? And then getting younger people to attend is a whole other but strongly related topic we need to address more effectively. We are not getting enough young people at dances. It appears to me that when a young person comes they often decide to not return because there aren't enough people in their age group. Please tell me if you like/encourage these ideas I have come up with so far and add others. Especially I want to know how to get new people to come on time for the lesson. Is it ok to advertise dance for 7:00 even though first 30 minutes is lesson? It's frustrating for our callers and then they don't get a full lesson which is not good for anyone.

1 year, 9 months

Re: COULD YOU PLEASE LIST WHERE YOU ARE FROM AND YOUR DANCE SERIES? Need ideas/feedback about how to get new dancers to return

by Paul Rosenberg

Hi folks Apologies for how I am addressing the response. Most lists default to the entire group, but it seems like this goes only to the individuals in the response field? OK, now I see that Marie-Micele seems to be the moderator and generic address Just a few thoughts: COULD YOU PLEASE LIST WHERE YOU ARE FROM AND YOUR DANCE SERIES? This is an issue I notice in all of these lists, but specifically in the Organizers' list, knowing your location is useful, unless you want to remain anonymous But while I'm at it, I might as well make a couple of comments. I've always wondered myself (since my first dance in 1981!) about the contradiction of having a lesson preceding the dance, while publicity also indicates that no experience needed, all dances taught, dances are easy etc. etc. Yes, the dances are easy compared to international folk, which is mostly Balkan these days, and ballroom. But I have witnessed way too many people struggling, especially in recent years, with the fast pace of these always-in-motion cardio -- and -- mental workout dances. As a caller, I got to the point that I no longer enjoyed ramping up the dances for the experienced dancers while leaving the less physically and mentally fit dancers behind. I had already been calling a lot of community dances and family dances and getting much more satisfaction from them. And people smiling a heck of a lot more! So I stopped organizing -- as well as calling -- contra series. My organizing community and family dances, as fun as they were for people (we would get *rousing ovations* at the end of each event), our turnouts were still too small to have a viable event. But I was still organizing them until Covid. I am lucky that we have a couple of local bands who are willing to play for whatever comes in the door, so we could continue and each of us get gas money, and sometimes enough to pay for a meal at a local cafe. But I'm not sure what my future is going to be because of all the complications right now with checking vaccinations and masking, etc. etc. Another important issue is the gender neutral calling. I rarely use gendered terms because they're not necessary in the community and family dances. But larks and robins is such a weird descriptor! Do you think that there could be another way of distinguishing roles? I think the best way to do gender-neutral calling is to use positional terminology. But I realize that is very challenging for us callers A colleague of mine uses "drivers and passengers" and I tried that recently, but wouldn't you know it? Some people from the United Kingdom were there and they said they got thrown off by the terminology of course! But some thing that a lot of the Contra world folks do not think of is that we are going to become quite a monoculture because many rural people as well as many conservative people are not only unhappy with this terminology, but some are actually boycotting the dances because of it. I do know a few people in that category. I do my best to explain to them about the pain that some members of our community go through at the dances with the gent/lady terms, but they have a couple of arguments themselves. For one thing, they say that they are uncomfortable with these new terms. But there's also the argument that many of us progressives are going overboard to make sure that members of oppressed groups do not feel any pain in their lives. I realize this is a huge huge conversation, but in the wide world there is more and more talk about how damaging it is to insulate oppressed groups from feeling any pain. And I am one of those people who went through terrible oppression growing up and was lucky to have enough of a support system to allow me to get past the pain. And yes, there are people who do not have that support system Now I'm realizing I've gone on way too long, but I do hope we have more of a dialogue about this Paul Rosenberg Albany, NY Founder of the Flurry Festival, Saratoga Springs, NY www.homespun.biz *Joy Through Traditional Dance & Live Fiddle Music* 518-482-9255 On Tue, Mar 14, 2023 at 9:26 AM Sandy Seiler via Organizers < organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > Could you specifically address my question of how to get new dancers to > show up on time for the lesson? I think it would be ok to advertise the > event as starting at 7:00 with lesson (or basic moves instruction) in the > first half hour. I feel like when new people come at 7:00 and experienced > arrive at 7:30 that already sets the newbies up as "a tribe apart". We > need to get as many as possible there at 7:00 to integrate and socialize. > Thoughts? > > On Tue, Mar 14, 2023 at 6:50 AM Mary Collins <nativedae(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> Alexander- oops...while we are not specifically gender free, we strive >> for it in a very very conservative group of older dancers. I am scheduled >> to meet with our web person soon and will adress verbage. Thanks for this >> info. >> >> On Mon, Mar 13, 2023, 4:34 PM Alexandra Deis-Lauby <adeislauby(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Mary, >>> >>> Is the Buffalo dance gender free? The website tells callers to use >>> gents and ladies. If the dance is in fact gender free, then the website >>> needs updating. If you are advertising the dance as gender free but use >>> gents and ladies, that would certainly not encourage me to return if I were >>> a new dancer. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mar 13, 2023, at 3:54 PM, Mary Collins via Organizers < >>> organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: >>> >>> Watching this as we have the same issue. We are (I believe) the 2nd >>> largest city in NYS and have the most pitiful turnout. >>> >>> I think you have some good ideas here. >>> >>> One comment: we often or even always speak about our dance not only >>> gender free, no partner necessary to bring, but also as no lessons needed, >>> each dance being taught and "walked through". Then we advertise "the >>> lesson" b4 the dance. If words matter (and I think we agree they do) the >>> this is a huge contradiction. >>> >>> I say to people these sets of words & phrasing: easy, walking to music, >>> Only 8 steps, no need to bring partner but a friend is fun, dances are >>> taught, practiced (stole from country line dance & swing) and then they are >>> prompted once the music starts. We offer basic move instruction rather than >>> lesson. >>> >>> I don't really know if these changes help, hinder or have no effect. I >>> only know that not having a friend anchor for the first few dances would >>> have resulted in my not coming back. The lesson too. But that's just my >>> perception. >>> >>> We give out "get in free" cards and encourage ppl to share theirs with a >>> friend. I also encourage people who say "I told my friends...", to next >>> dance offer to pick them up or meet b4 and come together. >>> >>> We also encourage experienced dancers to partner with new dancers. >>> >>> I am anxious to hear other's ideas. >>> >>> Mary "from Buffalo", not. >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Mar 13, 2023, 12:49 PM Sandy Seiler via Organizers < >>> organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: >>> >>>> Newbies are not returning my thoughts... >>>> Why? not feeling welcome?, feeling intimidated/too hard? Coming late >>>> to lesson and being lost/confused during dance? Lack of feeling of >>>> mastery/learning? Need follow up lesson since we only dance 1x/month? One >>>> month is a long time to wait for another lesson. Not enough younger >>>> dancers like themselves? >>>> Ideas: >>>> 1. Use beginner friendly buttons >>>> 2. Ask experienced dancers to dance with beginners for first 2 dances >>>> at least. Board members lead by example. >>>> 3. Encourage experienced dancers to come for the beginner lesson to >>>> welcome/socialize with new dancers. >>>> 4. Have caller or one of us give out free passes (pass for next dance) >>>> at the lesson so we don't have to remember to do it at the table. We gave >>>> out 15 free passes to new dancers in Feb and did not get any to return in >>>> March. (March dance was on 2nd sat instead of our normal 3rd sat and it's >>>> spring break. Feb attendance 61, March 38 (paid dancers, not including 3 >>>> listeners). Also there was a local magazine article about LBDA in February >>>> and we had our most experienced and popular contra dance band (Kaw Creek) >>>> playing. >>>> 5. Our Lesson is at 7:00, Dance 7:30. Should we use start time 7:00 in >>>> advertising bc experienced dancers will figure it out and adjust to coming >>>> at 7:30 more easily than new people knowing they need to come at 7:00 for >>>> the lesson. New people attending and being on time for 7:00 lesson is >>>> important for a smooth dance so do we need to advertise that way? Want >>>> experienced dancers to be there to meet and socialize with them so they can >>>> be better integrated into the community and not feel so awkward. I have >>>> suggested this to our board before, but was told that would be manipulative >>>> toward experienced dancers who would be upset that they came too early and >>>> wasted their time. That feels like a very unwelcoming attitude, and I >>>> would like to encourage all our dancers to consider that 7:00 is our start >>>> time because beginners are important and we need to be there to greet them >>>> and socialize. >>>> 6. Schedule a 1 hour lesson or series of lessons led by experienced >>>> callers Lisa and or Jill and a couple new callers... before the dance? On >>>> a different day? Through Parks and Rec this summer? >>>> 7. New dancers are far outnumbering experienced dancers. Need to do >>>> advanced dance to pull back in some dancers who drifted away after the >>>> pandemic. Contact individually by phone/email? >>>> >>>> And then getting younger people to attend is a whole other but strongly >>>> related topic we need to address more effectively. We are not getting >>>> enough young people at dances. It appears to me that when a young person >>>> comes they often decide to not return because there aren't enough people in >>>> their age group. >>>> >>>> Please tell me if you like/encourage these ideas I have come up with so >>>> far and add others. >>>> Especially I want to know how to get new people to come on time for the >>>> lesson. >>>> Is it ok to advertise dance for 7:00 even though first 30 minutes is >>>> lesson? It's frustrating for our callers and then they don't get a full >>>> lesson which is not good for anyone. >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >>>> To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >>> To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ > Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net > To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net >

1 year, 9 months

Monthly organizers zoom meetup 3rd Mondays (TODAY!)

by Darlene Hamilton

We welcome other dance group organizers that work in a similar manner. Every 3rd Monday. We discuss all things topical to running our groups. Organizers of ECD meet-up, this afternoon at 1:30 pm PT/4:30 pm ET. https://tinyurl.com/ECD-Organizers Meeting ID: 831 1348 0385 Passcode: community Darlene Hamilton Historical Tea & Dance Society -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Darlene Hamilton *Caller, Dancer, Founder of* *The Historical Tea & Dance Society* *Historical Balls, Tea Dances, and Historical Dance classes* *For more information about events and classes go to**www.historicalteaanddance.org <http://www.historicalteaanddance.org/>* *Like us on facebook!*

1 year, 9 months

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