25 May
2023
25 May
'23
6:12 p.m.
Hey Organizers,
My home town, Columbia, MO, is building a welcome/community center for
multiple uses. Our contra group has asked them to consider something other
than smooth concrete for the floor.
The City parks and rec people were initially resistant, but since a lot of
the funding for the building will be coming directly from the community,
they seem to be softening their stance, but not to the point of approving a
hardwood floor. So the architect has done some research on alternative
flooring options that might be comfortable and safe to dance on, but also
have many of the conveniences of concrete floor for multiple uses and
maintenance.
Two products are listed in the attachments below. Unfortunately, the only
known installations are 300-450 miles from us in Indiana and Kansas.
Have any of you out there in dance land run across either of these kinds of
floorings, or maybe know of other alternatives to hardwood that would meet
low maintenance requirements of the City?
Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.
Jim Thaxter
Columbia, MO
---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Robbie Price
Date: Tue, May 9, 2023 at 9:12 AM
Subject: RE: Community building floor
To: Jim Thaxter <jathaxter47(a)gmail.com>
Dear Jim:
With a pure dance floor out of the question (too much friction for your
purposes and too expensive), I am looking for floor which gives you the
cushion you need and the durability to resist table and chair scratches,
dropped equipment, and food spills. My rep from Tarkett, one of the largest
flooring companies in the U.S. have a sports/recreation flooring division,
Zoche, which may work. He recommends their Omnisports system “Multi-use” or
the Lumaflex without the wood subfloor. Please find the spec sheets on
these two products attached.
I am also interested in an industrial wood flooring product which may prove
to be a possible solution – end grain wood blocks. It traditionally is used
in industrial applications with 3” – 5” thick,creosote impregnated wood
blocks which take all manner of abuse. Today they do away with the harmful
chemicals and hazardous materials and use oils and some polyurethanes to
finish them. It could be a beautiful floor and stand up to any abuse if
only it is acceptable to the dance community. Here are websites for your
review: Old Wood LLC. - End Grain Flooring <https://www.oldwood.us/endgrain>
, END GRAIN | Kaswell Flooring Systems <https://www.kaswell.com/end-grain/>
I need to do so more research on this. Please let me know what you think.
Thank you for any input you can provide.
Cordially,
Robbie
*Robbie Price AIA, LEED AP +*
*573.443.1407*
Architect / Associate
*soa*
*Architecture Interior Design Planning Sustainability*
*P* Please consider the environment before printing this email.
*From:* Jim Thaxter <jathaxter47(a)gmail.com>
*Sent:* Saturday, May 6, 2023 4:02 PM
*To:* Robbie Price <price(a)soa-inc.com>
*Subject:* Community building floor
Hi Robbie,
Thanks for being willing to consider a floor of something other than smooth
concrete. Keep us up to date on what you’re looking at.
Jim Thaxter
27 May
27 May
1:21 p.m.
Hi,
From my experience working for New York ballet and modern dance companies
and from doing the folk dancing we talk about here, I'd offer that the key
word is "sprung" and I'd suggest researching portable and temporary sprung
dance floors.
See:
https://www.stagestep.com/subfloor-systems/springstep-v/
Unacceptable: wood or wood-like flooring installed directly on concrete,
without springing. This is as hard, unforgiving, unpleasant and injurious
as concrete.
Sometimes a search for "dance floors" turns up "marley," which is
floor
covering, only. It is non-slip vinyl that makes an underlying sprung floor
safe for stage dance.
https://danceequipmentintl.com/marley-dance-floor-guide/
There are soft and hard versions of marley designed for styles of dance and
footware. Again, marley alone doesn't make a concrete or a non-sprung
floor ok, but it can be quickly rolled out onto an "okay" residential wood
beam constructed floor for dancing. An advantage to this route is that,
for low cost, it will protect the surface of, say, a basketball court
enabling a multi-purpose floor.
One might also research the floors for basketball courts which have the
same requirements of being wood, but soft.
As an aside, your challenge reminds me of the floors of large event arenas,
which might have to be changed from a basketball court to an ice rink to a
stadium floor, etc.
Sometimes, also, a hard floor problem can be solved with footwear. Yours
might become a sneaker dance on a concrete floor, just as sneakers are used
for street dance (e.g., hip hop).
Sounds like an exciting project.
Best wishes,
Rob
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Robert Matson
President
Innovation Media Corp.
The Innovation Works, Inc.
Tel: (646) 233-1219
Cell: (917) 626-2675
On Fri, May 26, 2023 at 9:28 AM Jim Thaxter via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Hey Organizers,
My home town, Columbia, MO, is building a welcome/community center for
multiple uses. Our contra group has asked them to consider something other
than smooth concrete for the floor.
The City parks and rec people were initially resistant, but since a lot of
the funding for the building will be coming directly from the community,
they seem to be softening their stance, but not to the point of approving a
hardwood floor. So the architect has done some research on alternative
flooring options that might be comfortable and safe to dance on, but also
have many of the conveniences of concrete floor for multiple uses and
maintenance.
Two products are listed in the attachments below. Unfortunately, the only
known installations are 300-450 miles from us in Indiana and Kansas.
Have any of you out there in dance land run across either of these kinds
of floorings, or maybe know of other alternatives to hardwood that would
meet low maintenance requirements of the City?
Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.
Jim Thaxter
Columbia, MO
---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Robbie Price
Date: Tue, May 9, 2023 at 9:12 AM
Subject: RE: Community building floor
To: Jim Thaxter <jathaxter47(a)gmail.com>
Dear Jim:
With a pure dance floor out of the question (too much friction for your
purposes and too expensive), I am looking for floor which gives you the
cushion you need and the durability to resist table and chair scratches,
dropped equipment, and food spills. My rep from Tarkett, one of the largest
flooring companies in the U.S. have a sports/recreation flooring division,
Zoche, which may work. He recommends their Omnisports system “Multi-use” or
the Lumaflex without the wood subfloor. Please find the spec sheets on
these two products attached.
I am also interested in an industrial wood flooring product which may
prove to be a possible solution – end grain wood blocks. It traditionally
is used in industrial applications with 3” – 5” thick,creosote impregnated
wood blocks which take all manner of abuse. Today they do away with the
harmful chemicals and hazardous materials and use oils and some
polyurethanes to finish them. It could be a beautiful floor and stand up to
any abuse if only it is acceptable to the dance community. Here are
websites for your review: Old Wood LLC. - End Grain Flooring
<https://www.oldwood.us/endgrain> , END GRAIN | Kaswell Flooring Systems
<https://www.kaswell.com/end-grain/>
I need to do so more research on this. Please let me know what you think.
Thank you for any input you can provide.
Cordially,
Robbie
*Robbie Price AIA, LEED AP +*
*573.443.1407*
Architect / Associate
*soa*
*Architecture Interior Design Planning Sustainability*
*P* Please consider the environment before printing this email.
*From:* Jim Thaxter <jathaxter47(a)gmail.com>
*Sent:* Saturday, May 6, 2023 4:02 PM
*To:* Robbie Price <price(a)soa-inc.com>
*Subject:* Community building floor
Hi Robbie,
Thanks for being willing to consider a floor of something other than
smooth concrete. Keep us up to date on what you’re looking at.
Jim Thaxter
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
1:50 p.m.
Rob’s mention of basketball courts and arenas reminded me that my alma mater installed a
new floor in the field house a few years ago. The requirements on the surface are
different, but the need for shock absorption for the track and the basketball courts is
very similar. The company that did the work was Beynon Sports. They advertise a range of
products.
On 05/27/2023 9:21 AM AKDT Robert Matson via Organizers
<organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Hi,
From my experience working for New York ballet and modern dance companies and from doing
the folk dancing we talk about here, I'd offer that the key word is "sprung"
and I'd suggest researching portable and temporary sprung dance floors.
See:
https://www.stagestep.com/subfloor-systems/springstep-v/
Unacceptable: wood or wood-like flooring installed directly on concrete, without
springing. This is as hard, unforgiving, unpleasant and injurious as concrete.
Sometimes a search for "dance floors" turns up "marley," which is
floor covering, only. It is non-slip vinyl that makes an underlying sprung floor safe for
stage dance.
https://danceequipmentintl.com/marley-dance-floor-guide/
There are soft and hard versions of marley designed for styles of dance and footware.
Again, marley alone doesn't make a concrete or a non-sprung floor ok, but it can be
quickly rolled out onto an "okay" residential wood beam constructed floor for
dancing. An advantage to this route is that, for low cost, it will protect the surface
of, say, a basketball court enabling a multi-purpose floor.
One might also research the floors for basketball courts which have the same requirements
of being wood, but soft.
As an aside, your challenge reminds me of the floors of large event arenas, which might
have to be changed from a basketball court to an ice rink to a stadium floor, etc.
Sometimes, also, a hard floor problem can be solved with footwear. Yours might become a
sneaker dance on a concrete floor, just as sneakers are used for street dance (e.g., hip
hop).
Sounds like an exciting project.
Best wishes,
Rob
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Robert Matson
President
Innovation Media Corp.
The Innovation Works, Inc.
Tel: (646) 233-1219 tel:(646)233-1219
Cell: (917) 626-2675 tel:(917)626-2675
On Fri, May 26, 2023 at 9:28 AM Jim Thaxter via Organizers
<organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Hey Organizers,
My home town, Columbia, MO, is building a welcome/community center for multiple uses. Our
contra group has asked them to consider something other than smooth concrete for the
floor.
The City parks and rec people were initially resistant, but since a lot of the funding for
the building will be coming directly from the community, they seem to be softening their
stance, but not to the point of approving a hardwood floor. So the architect has done some
research on alternative flooring options that might be comfortable and safe to dance on,
but also have many of the conveniences of concrete floor for multiple uses and
maintenance.
Two products are listed in the attachments below. Unfortunately, the only known
installations are 300-450 miles from us in Indiana and Kansas.
Have any of you out there in dance land run across either of these kinds of floorings, or
maybe know of other alternatives to hardwood that would meet low maintenance requirements
of the City?
Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.
Jim Thaxter
Columbia, MO
---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Robbie Price
Date: Tue, May 9, 2023 at 9:12 AM
Subject: RE: Community building floor
To: Jim Thaxter <jathaxter47(a)gmail.com mailto:jathaxter47@gmail.com>
Dear Jim:
With a pure dance floor out of the question (too much friction for your purposes and too
expensive), I am looking for floor which gives you the cushion you need and the durability
to resist table and chair scratches, dropped equipment, and food spills. My rep from
Tarkett, one of the largest flooring companies in the U.S. have a sports/recreation
flooring division, Zoche, which may work. He recommends their Omnisports system
“Multi-use” or the Lumaflex without the wood subfloor. Please find the spec sheets on
these two products attached.
I am also interested in an industrial wood flooring product which may prove to be a
possible solution – end grain wood blocks. It traditionally is used in industrial
applications with 3” – 5” thick,creosote impregnated wood blocks which take all manner of
abuse. Today they do away with the harmful chemicals and hazardous materials and use oils
and some polyurethanes to finish them. It could be a beautiful floor and stand up to any
abuse if only it is acceptable to the dance community. Here are websites for your review:
Old Wood LLC. - End Grain Flooring https://www.oldwood.us/endgrain , END GRAIN | Kaswell
Flooring Systems https://www.kaswell.com/end-grain/
I need to do so more research on this. Please let me know what you think. Thank you for
any input you can provide.
Cordially,
Robbie
Robbie Price AIA, LEED AP +
573.443.1407 tel:573.443.1407
Architect / Associate
soa
Architecture Interior Design Planning Sustainability
P Please consider the environment before printing this email.
From: Jim Thaxter <jathaxter47(a)gmail.com mailto:jathaxter47@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 6, 2023 4:02 PM
To: Robbie Price <price(a)soa-inc.com mailto:price@soa-inc.com>
Subject: Community building floor
Hi Robbie,
Thanks for being willing to consider a floor of something other than smooth concrete. Keep
us up to date on what you’re looking at.
Jim Thaxter
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
mailto:organizers-leave@lists.sharedweight.net
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
30 May
30 May
9:59 p.m.
Coming in late ... was helping out at the Meet Me in St. Louis Memorial
Day weekend dance ...
I was a modern dancer once upon a time and encountered a lot of marley.
All of the marley I ran into targeted ballet and toe shoes which
requires a high level of horizontal friction.
Not the end of the world for contra dance, but not ideal for buzz step
et al as has been mentioned.
I had the privilege of rehearsing a few times at an Atlanta Ballet
rehearsal space.
That floor was literally sprung ... with springs ... which made running
on it almost
like running on a diving board! So fully ballet level sprung floors are
not optimum either.
Atlanta contra dance has put down a plywood/strips semi-"sprung" floor
that was a fine floor
(many many years ago). Plywood had a poly finish for protection.
Recently a friend laid a floor for dancing (she contra dances) in an out
building
that had a mix of concrete and joists. In that space ...
strips of wood w/ pool noodle slices for extra cushion
noodle slices stapled onto wood strip
just laid on floor
plywood screwed into wood strips (stabilizing everything)
modern engineered snap in floor laid in on top of plywood et al
I'm tossing out as FYI. Your community center multi-use space won't want to
mess with plywood.
Heitzso
Hi,
From my experience working for New York ballet and modern dance
companies and from doing the folk dancing we talk about here, I'd
offer that the key word is "sprung" and I'd suggest researching
portable and temporary sprung dance floors.
See:
https://www.stagestep.com/subfloor-systems/springstep-v/
Unacceptable: wood or wood-like flooring installed directly on
concrete, without springing. This is as hard, unforgiving, unpleasant
and injurious as concrete.
Sometimes a search for "dance floors" turns up "marley," which is
floor covering, only. It is non-slip vinyl that makes an underlying
sprung floor safe for stage dance.
https://danceequipmentintl.com/marley-dance-floor-guide/
There are soft and hard versions of marley designed for styles of
dance and footware. Again, marley alone doesn't make a concrete or a
non-sprung floor ok, but it can be quickly rolled out onto an "okay"
residential wood beam constructed floor for dancing. An advantage to
this route is that, for low cost, it will protect the surface of, say,
a basketball court enabling a multi-purpose floor.
One might also research the floors for basketball courts which have
the same requirements of being wood, but soft.
As an aside, your challenge reminds me of the floors of large event
arenas, which might have to be changed from a basketball court to an
ice rink to a stadium floor, etc.
Sometimes, also, a hard floor problem can be solved with footwear.
Yours might become a sneaker dance on a concrete floor, just as
sneakers are used for street dance (e.g., hip hop).
Sounds like an exciting project.
Best wishes,
Rob
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Robert Matson
President
Innovation Media Corp.
The Innovation Works, Inc.
Tel: (646) 233-1219
Cell: (917) 626-2675
On Fri, May 26, 2023 at 9:28 AM Jim Thaxter via Organizers
<organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Hey Organizers,
My home town, Columbia, MO, is building a welcome/community center
for multiple uses. Our contra group has asked them to consider
something other than smooth concrete for the floor.
The City parks and rec people were initially resistant, but since
a lot of the funding for the building will be coming directly from
the community, they seem to be softening their stance, but not to
the point of approving a hardwood floor. So the architect has done
some research on alternative flooring options that might be
comfortable and safe to dance on, but also have many of the
conveniences of concrete floor for multiple uses and maintenance.
Two products are listed in the attachments below. Unfortunately,
the only known installations are 300-450 miles from us in Indiana
and Kansas.
Have any of you out there in dance land run across either of these
kinds of floorings, or maybe know of other alternatives to
hardwood that would meet low maintenance requirements of the City?
Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.
Jim Thaxter
Columbia, MO
---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: *Robbie Price*
Date: Tue, May 9, 2023 at 9:12 AM
Subject: RE: Community building floor
To: Jim Thaxter <jathaxter47(a)gmail.com>
Dear Jim:
With a pure dance floor out of the question (too much friction for
your purposes and too expensive), I am looking for floor which
gives you the cushion you need and the durability to resist table
and chair scratches, dropped equipment, and food spills. My rep
from Tarkett, one of the largest flooring companies in the U.S.
have a sports/recreation flooring division, Zoche, which may work.
He recommends their Omnisports system “Multi-use” or the Lumaflex
without the wood subfloor. Please find the spec sheets on these
two products attached.
I am also interested in an industrial wood flooring product which
may prove to be a possible solution – end grain wood blocks. It
traditionally is used in industrial applications with 3” – 5”
thick,creosote impregnated wood blocks which take all manner of
abuse. Today they do away with the harmful chemicals and hazardous
materials and use oils and some polyurethanes to finish them. It
could be a beautiful floor and stand up to any abuse if only it is
acceptable to the dance community. Here are websites for your
review: Old Wood LLC. - End Grain Flooring
<https://www.oldwood.us/endgrain> , END GRAIN | Kaswell Flooring
Systems <https://www.kaswell.com/end-grain/>
I need to do so more research on this. Please let me know what you
think. Thank you for any input you can provide.
Cordially,
Robbie
*Robbie Price AIA, LEED AP +*
*573.443.1407*
Architect / Associate
*soa*
*Architecture Interior Design Planning Sustainability*
*P*Please consider the environment before printing this email.
*From:* Jim Thaxter <jathaxter47(a)gmail.com>
*Sent:* Saturday, May 6, 2023 4:02 PM
*To:* Robbie Price <price(a)soa-inc.com>
*Subject:* Community building floor
Hi Robbie,
Thanks for being willing to consider a floor of something other
than smooth concrete. Keep us up to date on what you’re looking at.
Jim Thaxter
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to
organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list --organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email toorganizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
22 Jun
22 Jun
12:57 p.m.
Sorry that I'm late chiming in on dance floor question... life has been a
bit crazy the past month!
There's actually a bunch of great posts about flooring ideas in the archive
for this list.
https://lists.sharedweight.net/hyperkitty/search?mlist=organizers%40lists.s…
Simply search for 'floor' and you'll see a whole whack of great info.
One of my favourite floors is the plywood floor in the West Mabou Hall
(Mabou, Cape Breton). It's got quite the patina and is smooth enough that
folks can dance in the bare feet!
Video here: https://fb.watch/lkdLExNkbN/
:) Emily in Ottawa
On Tue, May 30, 2023 at 10:00 PM Heitzso via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Coming in late ... was helping out at the Meet Me in
St. Louis Memorial
Day weekend dance ...
I was a modern dancer once upon a time and encountered a lot of marley.
All of the marley I ran into targeted ballet and toe shoes which requires
a high level of horizontal friction.
Not the end of the world for contra dance, but not ideal for buzz step et
al as has been mentioned.
I had the privilege of rehearsing a few times at an Atlanta Ballet
rehearsal space.
That floor was literally sprung ... with springs ... which made running on
it almost
like running on a diving board! So fully ballet level sprung floors are
not optimum either.
Atlanta contra dance has put down a plywood/strips semi-"sprung" floor
that was a fine floor
(many many years ago). Plywood had a poly finish for protection.
Recently a friend laid a floor for dancing (she contra dances) in an out
building
that had a mix of concrete and joists. In that space ...
strips of wood w/ pool noodle slices for extra cushion
noodle slices stapled onto wood strip
just laid on floor
plywood screwed into wood strips (stabilizing everything)
modern engineered snap in floor laid in on top of plywood et al
I'm tossing out as FYI. Your community center multi-use space won't want
to
mess with plywood.
Heitzso
Hi,
From my experience working for New York ballet and modern dance companies
and from doing the folk dancing we talk about here, I'd offer that the key
word is "sprung" and I'd suggest researching portable and temporary sprung
dance floors.
See:
https://www.stagestep.com/subfloor-systems/springstep-v/
Unacceptable: wood or wood-like flooring installed directly on concrete,
without springing. This is as hard, unforgiving, unpleasant and injurious
as concrete.
Sometimes a search for "dance floors" turns up "marley," which is
floor
covering, only. It is non-slip vinyl that makes an underlying sprung floor
safe for stage dance.
https://danceequipmentintl.com/marley-dance-floor-guide/
There are soft and hard versions of marley designed for styles of dance
and footware. Again, marley alone doesn't make a concrete or a non-sprung
floor ok, but it can be quickly rolled out onto an "okay" residential wood
beam constructed floor for dancing. An advantage to this route is that,
for low cost, it will protect the surface of, say, a basketball court
enabling a multi-purpose floor.
One might also research the floors for basketball courts which have the
same requirements of being wood, but soft.
As an aside, your challenge reminds me of the floors of large event
arenas, which might have to be changed from a basketball court to an ice
rink to a stadium floor, etc.
Sometimes, also, a hard floor problem can be solved with footwear. Yours
might become a sneaker dance on a concrete floor, just as sneakers are used
for street dance (e.g., hip hop).
Sounds like an exciting project.
Best wishes,
Rob
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Robert Matson
President
Innovation Media Corp.
The Innovation Works, Inc.
Tel: (646) 233-1219
Cell: (917) 626-2675
On Fri, May 26, 2023 at 9:28 AM Jim Thaxter via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Hey Organizers,
My home town, Columbia, MO, is building a welcome/community center for
multiple uses. Our contra group has asked them to consider something other
than smooth concrete for the floor.
The City parks and rec people were initially resistant, but since a lot
of the funding for the building will be coming directly from the community,
they seem to be softening their stance, but not to the point of approving a
hardwood floor. So the architect has done some research on alternative
flooring options that might be comfortable and safe to dance on, but also
have many of the conveniences of concrete floor for multiple uses and
maintenance.
Two products are listed in the attachments below. Unfortunately, the only
known installations are 300-450 miles from us in Indiana and Kansas.
Have any of you out there in dance land run across either of these kinds
of floorings, or maybe know of other alternatives to hardwood that would
meet low maintenance requirements of the City?
Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.
Jim Thaxter
Columbia, MO
---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Robbie Price
Date: Tue, May 9, 2023 at 9:12 AM
Subject: RE: Community building floor
To: Jim Thaxter <jathaxter47(a)gmail.com>
Dear Jim:
With a pure dance floor out of the question (too much friction for your
purposes and too expensive), I am looking for floor which gives you the
cushion you need and the durability to resist table and chair scratches,
dropped equipment, and food spills. My rep from Tarkett, one of the largest
flooring companies in the U.S. have a sports/recreation flooring division,
Zoche, which may work. He recommends their Omnisports system “Multi-use” or
the Lumaflex without the wood subfloor. Please find the spec sheets on
these two products attached.
I am also interested in an industrial wood flooring product which may
prove to be a possible solution – end grain wood blocks. It traditionally
is used in industrial applications with 3” – 5” thick,creosote impregnated
wood blocks which take all manner of abuse. Today they do away with the
harmful chemicals and hazardous materials and use oils and some
polyurethanes to finish them. It could be a beautiful floor and stand up to
any abuse if only it is acceptable to the dance community. Here are
websites for your review: Old Wood LLC. - End Grain Flooring
<https://www.oldwood.us/endgrain> , END GRAIN | Kaswell Flooring Systems
<https://www.kaswell.com/end-grain/>
I need to do so more research on this. Please let me know what you think.
Thank you for any input you can provide.
Cordially,
Robbie
*Robbie Price AIA, LEED AP +*
*573.443.1407*
Architect / Associate
*soa*
*Architecture Interior Design Planning Sustainability*
*P* Please consider the environment before printing this email.
*From:* Jim Thaxter <jathaxter47(a)gmail.com>
*Sent:* Saturday, May 6, 2023 4:02 PM
*To:* Robbie Price <price(a)soa-inc.com>
*Subject:* Community building floor
Hi Robbie,
Thanks for being willing to consider a floor of something other than
smooth concrete. Keep us up to date on what you’re looking at.
Jim Thaxter
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
27 May
27 May
4:13 p.m.
For what it's worth, the Concord, MA Scout House has a hardwood floor which
is only now getting to the point of needing replacement after just shy of a
century of use. It would likely have lasted longer but there was a period
of difficulty with the finish which resulted in excessive sanding/
screening and we're now down to the tongue and groove junction in some
spots.
Now that we've settled on the Bona "Traffic" finish, it holds up really
well with use as a multi function hall (besides multiple weekly folk dances
we've seen countless tables and chairs for event rentals, pinewood derby
tracks, Scouts troop meetings, ceremonies and camp overs, floor hockey,
marching band practice, movie production, ballroom with high heels, etc.).
Our custodian typically damp mops to clean back to a soft shine without
issue.
Many town and function halls in our area have century+ aged wooden floors
still going strong. One Montpelier VT Grange hall I've visited has a reel
of water resistant floor covering they roll out to keep their wooden floor
from getting soiled during events with food and then gets rolled back up
for dancing.
Don't necessarily give up on a primary hardwood floor due to a
misperception of durability and care needs in the era of modern finishes.
On Fri, May 26, 2023, 10:28 AM Jim Thaxter via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Hey Organizers,
My home town, Columbia, MO, is building a welcome/community center for
multiple uses. Our contra group has asked them to consider something other
than smooth concrete for the floor.
The City parks and rec people were initially resistant, but since a lot of
the funding for the building will be coming directly from the community,
they seem to be softening their stance, but not to the point of approving a
hardwood floor. So the architect has done some research on alternative
flooring options that might be comfortable and safe to dance on, but also
have many of the conveniences of concrete floor for multiple uses and
maintenance.
Two products are listed in the attachments below. Unfortunately, the only
known installations are 300-450 miles from us in Indiana and Kansas.
Have any of you out there in dance land run across either of these kinds
of floorings, or maybe know of other alternatives to hardwood that would
meet low maintenance requirements of the City?
Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.
Jim Thaxter
Columbia, MO
---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Robbie Price
Date: Tue, May 9, 2023 at 9:12 AM
Subject: RE: Community building floor
To: Jim Thaxter <jathaxter47(a)gmail.com>
Dear Jim:
With a pure dance floor out of the question (too much friction for your
purposes and too expensive), I am looking for floor which gives you the
cushion you need and the durability to resist table and chair scratches,
dropped equipment, and food spills. My rep from Tarkett, one of the largest
flooring companies in the U.S. have a sports/recreation flooring division,
Zoche, which may work. He recommends their Omnisports system “Multi-use” or
the Lumaflex without the wood subfloor. Please find the spec sheets on
these two products attached.
I am also interested in an industrial wood flooring product which may
prove to be a possible solution – end grain wood blocks. It traditionally
is used in industrial applications with 3” – 5” thick,creosote impregnated
wood blocks which take all manner of abuse. Today they do away with the
harmful chemicals and hazardous materials and use oils and some
polyurethanes to finish them. It could be a beautiful floor and stand up to
any abuse if only it is acceptable to the dance community. Here are
websites for your review: Old Wood LLC. - End Grain Flooring
<https://www.oldwood.us/endgrain> , END GRAIN | Kaswell Flooring Systems
<https://www.kaswell.com/end-grain/>
I need to do so more research on this. Please let me know what you think.
Thank you for any input you can provide.
Cordially,
Robbie
*Robbie Price AIA, LEED AP +*
*573.443.1407*
Architect / Associate
*soa*
*Architecture Interior Design Planning Sustainability*
*P* Please consider the environment before printing this email.
*From:* Jim Thaxter <jathaxter47(a)gmail.com>
*Sent:* Saturday, May 6, 2023 4:02 PM
*To:* Robbie Price <price(a)soa-inc.com>
*Subject:* Community building floor
Hi Robbie,
Thanks for being willing to consider a floor of something other than
smooth concrete. Keep us up to date on what you’re looking at.
Jim Thaxter
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5:38 p.m.
New subject: Community building floor
Rob Matson mentioned marley floor coverings. I don't know about whatever different
versions of marley may exist, but the one instance that I've ever encountered of
something described as a "marley" floor overing seemed, in my opinion, to give
far too much horizontal friction for contra dancing.
The idea of "a sneaker dance on a concrete floor" also strikes me as a situation
with far too much horizontal friction for comfortable contra dancing.
Rob also mentioned "portable and temporary sprung dance floors". I've danced
on portable spring dance floors at several multi-day dance events. Setting up and removing
such a temporary floor (at least any of the kinds I've encountered) seem like far too
much work for a 3-hour dance.
Don Veino mentioned Bona "Traffic" finish. I've danced on floors finished
with this product and found the amount of friction to be right in the sweet spot for
contra dancing. The friction isn't so high as to keep dancers feet from sliding at
all, this stressing their knees and ankles during buzz-step swings and under-arm twirls
(and during waltzes), but it's not so low as to create ta slipping hazard for figures
that require a quick change of direction. And as Don said, it seem to work well in a
multi-use environment. One hall that used it (no longer available for unrelated reasons)
was also used for youth basketball games, and the "Traffic" finish, which (as I
said) had low enough friction for contra dancing when participants were wearing dance
shoes, also had high enough friction for basketball when participants were wearing
sneakers.
Of course having a finish that gives a not-too-sticky-but-not-too-slippery level of
(horizontal) friction doesn't address concern Jim Thaxter raised about (vertical) give
and springiness.
A couple other points about Bona "Traffic" finish.
1) Bona "Traffic" is a specific product, not to be mistake for any product that
some other manufacturer may describe as, for example, "a high-traffic floor
finish" and that might or might not have similar performance.
2) Don wrote:
Our custodian typically damp mops to clean back to a
soft shine without issue.
On a floor we use that has a Bona "Traffic" finish, we've been advised not
to damp mop with plain water but to use a particular Bona cleaning solution, appropriately
diluted with water. I don't know how much difference that really makes, but we follow
the advice, and I believe our landlord's custodian does, too.
A final thought for Jim Thaxter: Perhaps this is just stating the obvious, but I think it
would be good if you can identify someone from within your community who knows something
about architecture/construction/carpentry (enough to sensibly assess claims about the
costs of various flooring construction options, their susceptibility to long term effects
of humidity, etc.) and who also really, truly understands what makes a surface comfortable
or uncomfortable for contra dancing.
--Jim
Santa CLara, CA
8:23 p.m.
New subject: Community building floor
Don Veino mentioned the Montpelier Grange Hall (actually the
"Capital City Grange"). We do have a maple hardwood floor, on a wood-joist
supported subfloor. This has been an excellent dance floor, with good
resilience though not a "sprung" floor. Our Hall is a multi-purpose
facility, used for everything from church services, to meetings, to
birthday & retirement parties. We had to replace the original maple floor
in 2012, after a 60-year lifespan, because it wore down to the
tongue-and-groove joints. After doing some tests, we had the new floor
finished with "Waterlox Original", a modified tung oil varnish. This
finish is largely absorbed into the wood, leaving minimal film on top of
the floor. This has worked pretty well to protect the floor, and provide
the right amount of friction for contra, square and waltz social dancing.
While this works well for these dance events, the wood floor and Waterlox
would certainly not be appropriate if the space is used for basketball or
other athletic events, which require considerably more friction--as anyone
who has contra-danced on a gym floor knows. We did not test the Bona
"Traffic" finish which Don describes.
We did decide to protect the new-in-2012 dance floor with vinyl "gym
floor" mats, which are left in place *except *when dance events happen.
Dance groups roll up the mats onto PVC pipe "cores", which store on a cart
under the stage. For our mix of events, these maps have worked well,
protecting the wood floor from food & drink spills, rain/mud/snow tracked
in from the parking lot, etc. Dancers are well-trained to change shoes
before coming onto the dance floor. We don't have any paid staff to roll
up the mats for an event; dance organizers have to arrange for their groups
to roll up the mats, and then roll them back out after the dance events.
We dust-mop the dance floor, using a light coat of a mop treatment to help
pick up dust from the floor, before dancing and afterward before the mats
are unrolled.
I also agree that we would never recommend dancing on wood flooring
laid over a concrete floor, for the sake of dancers' knees. I do not have
experience with the floor systems that Jim Thaxter links to; I would
certainly recommend visiting facilities with those types of floors and
"test-dancing" on them before planning on using them for
contra/square/waltz/social "folk" dancing.
Tim Swartz, President (with everyone's help)
Capital City Grange #469
802-225-8921
On Sat, May 27, 2023 at 5:40 PM jim saxe via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Rob Matson mentioned marley floor coverings. I
don't know about whatever
different versions of marley may exist, but the one instance that I've ever
encountered of something described as a "marley" floor overing seemed, in
my opinion, to give far too much horizontal friction for contra dancing.
The idea of "a sneaker dance on a concrete floor" also strikes me as a
situation with far too much horizontal friction for comfortable contra
dancing.
Rob also mentioned "portable and temporary sprung dance floors". I've
danced on portable spring dance floors at several multi-day dance events.
Setting up and removing such a temporary floor (at least any of the kinds
I've encountered) seem like far too much work for a 3-hour dance.
Don Veino mentioned Bona "Traffic" finish. I've danced on floors finished
with this product and found the amount of friction to be right in the sweet
spot for contra dancing. The friction isn't so high as to keep dancers feet
from sliding at all, this stressing their knees and ankles during buzz-step
swings and under-arm twirls (and during waltzes), but it's not so low as to
create ta slipping hazard for figures that require a quick change of
direction. And as Don said, it seem to work well in a multi-use
environment. One hall that used it (no longer available for unrelated
reasons) was also used for youth basketball games, and the "Traffic"
finish, which (as I said) had low enough friction for contra dancing when
participants were wearing dance shoes, also had high enough friction for
basketball when participants were wearing sneakers.
Of course having a finish that gives a not-too-sticky-but-not-too-slippery
level of (horizontal) friction doesn't address concern Jim Thaxter raised
about (vertical) give and springiness.
A couple other points about Bona "Traffic" finish.
1) Bona "Traffic" is a specific product, not to be mistake for any product
that some other manufacturer may describe as, for example, "a high-traffic
floor finish" and that might or might not have similar performance.
2) Don wrote:
Our custodian typically damp mops to clean back
to a soft shine without
issue.
On a floor we use that has a Bona "Traffic" finish, we've been advised not
to damp mop with plain water but to use a particular Bona cleaning
solution, appropriately diluted with water. I don't know how much
difference that really makes, but we follow the advice, and I believe our
landlord's custodian does, too.
A final thought for Jim Thaxter: Perhaps this is just stating the obvious,
but I think it would be good if you can identify someone from within your
community who knows something about architecture/construction/carpentry
(enough to sensibly assess claims about the costs of various flooring
construction options, their susceptibility to long term effects of
humidity, etc.) and who also really, truly understands what makes a surface
comfortable or uncomfortable for contra dancing.
--Jim
Santa CLara, CA
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8 comments
9 participants
participants (9)
-
DAVID HARDING -
Don Veino -
Emily Addison -
Heitzso -
jim saxe -
Jim Thaxter -
Robert Matson -
Timothy Swartz -
Weogo Reed