Hello all,
I'm beginning to have regrets. When I suggested that Chris copy those threads from the callers list, I did so because I found them inspiring accounts of ways that people creatively solved what might have been seen as 'bad' situations that had potential to damage the long-term health of our dearly loved social activity, and turned them into true community-building experiences, often making life a bit brighter for all concerned. This seemed a great thread to continue on our list -- I was looking forward to learning from ways that organizers have done those same things - turned icky situations into better ones... how organizers have taken a difficult situation at their series and helped improve it for the good of all concerned.
In the course of my dancing, calling and organizing life, I have witnessed many examples of unpleasant situations, including ones with certain dancers in the community. (We can all name innumerable dancer evils, as evidenced by the previous posts -- including, hot-shot, self-absorbed, flirt-meister, black&decker twirlers, never-on-time, clumsy, unnecessarily directive... I might also add limp noodles, deadweight women, carpal-tunnel-inducing allemanders, take up 6x your allotted spacers, stalkers, needs a shower, your-perfume-makes-it-hard-to-breathe, sweat factories, middleaged males who are borderline perverts that only dance with young girls... really, the list of outrages can go on and on and on...) I have begun to believe that there is no way of really removing all of these "undesireable" (to some or many) people from our community. It seems that when one disappears, two more appear who are new variations on the theme. (And anyhow, can we really endorse that sort of 'cleansing' to make our dance floor full of perfect dancers? I doubt it.) I have also begun to realize that I could spend countless hours railing about the outrages of horrible dancers, but that if I take the time to stop complaining, there probably are a few things that I could do to make the situation better. This is why I like that thread. It was a helpful reminder of ways to take positive action.
I agree with those who have pointed out in other threads that it is not the job of the organizers (or the caller for that matter) to ensure that you or I or everyone has a peak experience for every minute of the evening. Likewise, I don't believe it's the job of organizers or caller to police the dance hall, to reprimand people for perpetuating any of the above evils, and so forth. But there are certainly things we can do to make the contra world a nicer place to inhabit.
At the Ralph Page Dance Legacy Weekend earlier this month, a friend repeated an observation from a workshop they'd attended. Apparently David Millstone reminded the group that a caller is not only a programmer, music requester, teacher and prompter - a caller is a leader. A leader. And as such, when they exhibit qualities of leadership, they have the capacity to bring a dance community to places they might not have gone on their own. This is is what I noticed in the original posts about dealing with 'bad' dancers. They were demonstrating leadership.
The stream of posts about 'bad' dancers has reminded me of people in my dance community here. At our local dance, we have:
- a dancer who is truly "odd". He looks like a nutty professor, has extremely atypical ways of interacting socially, is fairly uncoordinated, chronically confused, often late... and... he is utterly happy to have found contradancing.
- pre-teens who partner with their same-gender friends, who for months were complete trainwrecks in the sets they chose, but were having a blast, wearing out the tracks on the dance music cds they begged their parents to buy, and were choosing to participate in an activity with people mostly 3-4x their age.
- people whose physical ailments simply keep them from executing certain figures at all, let alone correctly and on time with excellent flourishes but who smile broadly for the entire 3 hours.
And when I think about the larger dance community, I think of dozens and dozens of people who quite frankly don't fit into society's norms, but who have found a place in our dance community. Do we really think we have to root out all of the imperfections?
At the same Ralph Page weekend in NH, during Nils Fredland's workshop, we considered the question "Why do we dance?" One response that caught my attention was the observation that contradances are a community which is tolerant. Tolerant of difference. What a great thing. We could use a bit more of that in the larger world. Intolerance is creating quite a lot of damage, we could give tolerance a try. Tolerance.
This is partly what I noticed about those original posts. They were examples of ways that a particular community tolerated an imperfect dancer, and in fact, made it better for all. It wasn't endorsing a particular problematic behavior or attitude, but tolerating it. They took an indirect approach -- instead of meeting the 'problem' head on, they figured out ways to fix the situation so that the 'problem' wasn't causing quite so many other problems. They were making the situation itself more tolerable for all.
I'm not talking about ignoring flat out unsafe behavior. When a herd of 8 year old kids was playing tag on the dance floor, racing pell mell through the lines of dancers, you can bet that I wasted no time in chasing them down to tell them, "Uh-uh. No way. You need to stop. This is a dance. If you want to play tag, talk to your parents about going outdoors. But this is a place to dance, to enjoy the music and to sit and talk with friends."
When I see certain young and enthusiastic young men out there who I think are endangering the arm sockets of less strong-willed partners than I, it occurs to me that I have a few options. I could tell them they're not welcome at my dance, I could sternly lecture them about how they will cause countless women pain and suffering and rotator cuff surgery, or I could make sure that I, and others like me, cheerfully ask them to dance at least once in a night, knowing that I have the dance skills to protect myself and with the hope that I can help them see the delights of mutuality and consideration in a dance partner.
My impulse is to lecture, and to avoid them like the plague on the dance floor, but I suspect that's not what will make the situation more tolerable for all. (And besides, it's partly because I'm a strong-willed partner that I feel endangered -- I resist their lead rather than going with the flow.)
Sigh.
Anyone teach ethics? This is like questions of morality. Greatest good for the greatest number? Absolute moral code? Shades of grey?
Yours with furrowed brow,
Chrissy Fowler
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In a message dated 1/30/08 4:33:37 PM, organizers-request(a)sharedweight.net
writes:
> So, perhaps I can refocus this thread... what obligation, and what
> means or tools, do organizers have for the truly obnoxious people,
> the ones who really make people uncomfortable with their behaviors
> (and I mean beyond the dancing, though it can include some dancing
> behaviors such as insistently spinning every woman, winding them up
> in a mixer, regardless of the woman's clear messages to desist)?
> People who show up with what appears to be too much alcohol going on,
> or who become loud or aggressive, or who seems to be generally rude.
>
Hi All,
I have anecdotes and a thought to share, Anecdotes first:
At the Rochester NY dance there was a female-female couple who
encountered some sort of gender-biased nastiness and just stopped coming.
One of the other organizers relayed that they were uncomfortable with the
scene. I asked that they be requested to come back and if it happens again
to let one of the organizers know, and we will promptly tell that person the
behavior is not welcome, and if it appears that it won't stop, then issue a
full refund
to the offender, along with an escort to the door. The couple hasn't yet come
back, so
we don't know who the offender is, and I can't say how effective it is, but
it seems like a tool to use.
We think it was a new person who just didn't understand the nature of the
crowd.
At the same dance 3 years ago, there was a man who was being overly friendly
to one of the ladies - bringing flowers, asking for a date, etc. She told me,
and
I spoke with the then-president, and got approval to explain to the poor guy
that
his advances were making the ladies uncomfortable, that the object of his
desire
is not returning of his feelings, and that the public setting is
inappropriate for
individual flower-giving. I then invited him to the after-dance (where I knew
the
gal would NOT be) as a way of showing him how to make connections AWAY from
the dance floor. That seemed to work. They both meet in line these days,
and nothing outwardly is wrong with the interaction.
Finally the thought: Regarding the incessant twirlers -
Make certain that new dancer ladies get told about that right hand.
If it doesn't go UP, they can't go UNDER, and they are in complete control of
limiting the twirls. That works like a charm - I've seen the guy with a pouty
face after one of the newbies trained like that stiff-armed his attempt, but
he got over it, and the ladies didn't get dizzy - they felt empowered by
being
able to communicate their wishes.
Bob
**************
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i've seen a few replies recently talking about dealing with certain types of
"bad" dancers. (perhaps i am not receiving some posts, since i didn't see
the originals that were being replied to). i am interested in hearing
comments on a particular type of "bad" dancer. i am referring to people that
can be depended on to be late and/or confused about the next step, but NOT
because they suffer from some physical infirmity, and NOT because of lack of
experience. they may have been attending dances for months or years. it is
because they seem to be more interested in flirting with partner then in
paying attention to the dance. they are the type that if spoken to about
their lack of paying attention will excuse themselves by explaining that
they are "only here to have fun". of course, fun for them means less fun
for those dancing near them.
comments?
Jeffrey
Hi all, I may have missed some of the thread, it
appears I have. I've snipped the repeated threads from
this response.
I am responding to the Organizers Digest, Vol 6, Issue
6 post.
I have a different "bad" dancer food for thought. We
have dancers who have been attending dances for at
least 2-3 years now. I understand there are those
with limitations. I understand they keep coming back
because its a community and the dance is doing what it
is supposed to do, offer the means for all to share
the music through their feet and dance with others.
However, it does interrupt flow for other dancers and
for the dance itself, when someone has absolutely no
sense of being on time, or what the flow or beat is.
It appears sometimes they really don't care, but I
find it hard to imagine that, or don't want to.
Again, I can understand that someone with physical or
age limitation can't move faster, etc, and communities
have ways of working with these folks. But how do you
work with those others?
Laurie
~~
~ What the heart has once owned.....it shall never lose. ~
~ Henry Ward Beecher~
~~
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RE: Organizers Digest, Vol 6, Issue 6
Thanks Chris, I see here that you speak of including
posts from the other group.
Re Chris's message -
I understand its really our responsibility to insure
that folks understand what it means to be on time, to
learn to hear the music and the beat and the way to do
moves without harm to others.
Speak more to talking frankly with dancers who show
they have no clue.
We have a pre-dance workshop each dance in three of
our communities. Some of these folks actually still
come to these which is great for the community but
still impresses on me that they have no clue as to
beat and rhythm and or timing or that they don't care
if they have it or not.
If we make a point of saying they'll be a style
workshop these folks won't come.
Of course our callers try to slip a style point in
during a dance when its not intrusive, but again, that
isn't addressing the folks we are speaking to here.
That being said, I ask again, what is a positive,
respectful direct way of dealing with it?
Responding to Stephen and the others about Mr Dreamy,
we have a few Ms.Dreamy's as well. And some hot-shots
like Chris and Jeffrey talk about. And 2 Mr. Twirls
the girls.
It's my hope that other dancers will speak to the
issue, or if I'm in conversation with other dancers
and they bring this up, as things like this often are,
I encourage that they mention it to the dancer,
respectfully. I don't know what else to do except as
caller or organize (and dancer) to make a mention that
dance is about flow not just steps to get there.
The last time I did this (I was introducing a dance
with half heys which can be an awkward transition when
used to Hey for 4) I saw alot of heads nod, and smiles
from the better dancers or, rather, the dancers who
"get it".
When I dance with newer dancers, I make a point of
showing them how moves they dance with me can flow a
little easier, and I say, see how this feels, what do
you think? and they have always thanked me either then
or later.
As for Mr. Twirls, there's no stopping them. I
actually had a face to face talk with one gent to say
I found a new dancer in the restroom dizzy because he
thought he would take it upon himself to show her how
great it is to be twirled incessantly. And that was
after several dancers had asked him to let it go.
Laurie
-----------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 11:59:44 -0500
From: Stephen Moore <stevmoor(a)mac.com>
Subject: Re: [Organizers] uncaring "bad" dancers
To: A list for dance organizers
<organizers(a)sharedweight.net>
Message-ID:
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When I read the post yesterday about the dancers
(guys...) who are
late because they're having fun flirting I immediately
thought of one
fellow at one of our local dances. Then Chris writing
about a "hot
shot" was a very different picture. The fellow I
thought of does
this dreamy kind of doe-eyed dancing/flirting and when
I follow him
down the set just about every woman he dances with
arrives late,
often because she's having to disentangle herself from
his dreamy
allemande or whatever figure. I don't know what can
really be done
about that... the power of the dance organizer is
somewhat limited,
and besides, I wouldn't want everyone to be just
perfect, because
then when I'm in a playful mood (which is not
infrequent) I might
have to overly restrain my impulses!
I remember years ago someone saying to me, "Every
woman who leaves
dancing with you has a smile on her face.", which may
or may not be
true, but it's stuck with me as a measure of when a
dance is going
well... if people are smiling and laughing, the
particulars of how
the dance is going really doesn't make too much
difference.
Stephen Moore
Lenox, MA Contra Dance
On Jan 29, 2008, at 8:14 AM, Chris Weiler wrote:
> Hi Jeffrey,
>
> The name that I've been using for this type of
dancer is "hot
> shot". For
> them it's more about showing off and flourishes than
community.
Having
> danced for a while now, I'm convinced that most
people go through
this
> stage before they move on to being more of a
community dancer. I'm
> guilty of spending some time dancing like that, too.
>
> My interpretation of the phrase "only here to have
fun" leads me to
> think that they are more commenting on feeling
pressured and lectured
> about their dancing. Maybe if they were approached
with more positive
> approach. "I would have enjoyed our dance more if
you had been on
time
> for the balance." "It's such a thrill when you help
me get to the
> right
> person in time for the next move."
>
> I'm getting a little humorous, but I think that I'm
making my point.
> Make the comments about how we personally experience
their actions
and
> not about doing it "wrong" and it could get a whole
different
> reaction.
>
> Maybe I'll take some heat for this, but I believe
that there are very
> few "bad" dancers in this world. There are only
people who haven't
> practiced enough to learn what good and bad dancing
means. It just
> takes
> some people longer than others to learn the lessons.
They deserve our
> patience and some straightforward feedback.
>
> I would love to hear other people's thoughts about
this as well.
>
> Chris Weiler
> Goffstown, NH
>
> P.S. You didn't miss any previous posts. I compiled
some interesting
> e-mails from the Caller's list and sent them to this one.
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Hello,
I'm new to this discussion board. I chair a group of 6 of us who
organize the monthly Lenox Contra Dance, in Lenox, MA.
(LenoxContraDance.org) Chris invited me to join when I was chatting
with him at the Snowball in Peterborough, NH this past weekend.
Price:
Through last December we were charging $8- $10, dancer's choice, with
$5 for "students"... which also gets extended to children, though I
don't think we charge at all for young children. We're not trying
too hard to define some of these categories because it's too rigid
and we don't care that much. Starting with our dance this month
(January) we've gone to a straight $10 (our hall rental took a bit of
a jump with the new year, and another increase is scheduled for
July.) I don't believe we had any complaints about the $10 price.
We also have a residential facility in our area for adults who are
making their way back into society, and we let both the residents and
staff who accompany them in for the $5, but we don't advertise this.
That's really just a community service. Just recently, as one of
several efforts we're making to encourage new dancers, we've started
advertising "New Dancers, 2nd dance free!". When someone shows up
and says they're a new dancer, or the person at the door doesn't
recognize them and asks if they are, and they answer "Yes", they
write their name down on a list that we keep in the cash box. The
next time they come all they need to do is say that this is their
free dance, we find their name on the list and cross it off. We
started doing this two dances ago, so we haven't seen any impacts as
yet, but we've got about 16 people on the new dancer list. (If a new
thread is started for welcoming new dancers, I'll add this, and other
things we're doing.)
Our objectives are primarily to keep the dance a bit more than
solvent so we can carry some cash over to summer dances, which tend
to run at a loss; to make our fixed expenses (hall, minimal insurance
through CDSS, and snacks); and then to pay performers well. We have
a formula for dividing up the gate to include each of these factors,
and it seems to work pretty well.
It would be nice to think that the money isn't important, but it is.
A strong, healthy dance draws experienced and committed dancers as
well as offering an opportunity for new dancers, encourages new
performers as well as attracting solid performers, and provides a
service to both the dance community and the area. The culture of our
dance is still very much about our community and we don't turn
someone away over money. But it is important to attend to it.
Stephen Moore
Lenox Contra Dance, Lenox, MA
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [Callers] labor of love
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 11:41:19 -0500
From: Delia Clark <delia_clark(a)comcast.net>
Reply-To: Caller's discussion list <callers(a)sharedweight.net>
To: Caller's discussion list <callers(a)sharedweight.net>
Hi,
When I mentioned my dream of starting a new dance series in my
community of Woodstock VT to Jeremiah McLane at Pinewoods a few
summers ago, the main thing that I remember him saying is "Good luck,
it's a labor of love." His comment has stuck with me as we've
muddled along up to this point but, hey...
Friday night we had OUR FIRST DANCE in the "Third Friday Woodstock
Dance Series" and it was an awesome success, far exceeding our
expectations!!! I thought I might share some of what went well and
ask for your thoughts on starting new series in case you can help us
to maintain momentum.
The committee that finally came together with enough energy to make
this happen included several parents of young children, Waldorf
School parents, parents of kids with developmental disabilities and
members of a newish contra band that has been performing irregularly
over the past couple of years plus me as caller (my husband and son
are in the band). Here's what we came up with
Gradual Build-Up
We held two private parties in this venue this fall and early winter
that included members of the same band and me calling. Both
attracted big crowds and we promoted our dance series at both, at
least in concept. One of the parties was to celebrate my high school
son's new film and a ton of local HS kids came, which helped build up
a base of interest there and they turned out in force on Friday.
Family Friendly
We decided to make this a very family-friendly dance. We came up
with a program that includes:
5:30 - dinner of vegetarian soup and bread.
6:30 - family dance
7:30 - break and pot luck desserts
8:00 - contra dance
Notes on dinner: the soup is made by committee members using veggies
bought from a local farmer and bread is donated by a local bakery.
We gathered up a bunch of mismatched cups, bowls and spoons and we'll
keep them together and use them each time.
Affordable
We are currently charging $5 per adult, with children and teens
free. The cost includes both parts of the dance and dinner. We made
enough on Friday to pay for the food ingredients plus enough for seed
money for food for next time, some money to pay the guy who helped
cook, plus a modest amount for each band member -- we were thrilled
at how the finances came out, because of the large turn-out. Still,
we think we might try putting out a donation bucket for extra
donations next time to pay band members better (it's a big band),
donate to local non-profits, and and maybe invest in better sound
equipment over time.
Local Business Sponsor
One of our committee members owns two local businesses that recycle
and make compost. He offered to sponsor the dances, covering the
cost of the hall for the first five dances, which is $100 per night,
which is a reduced rate from their usual $150. We promoted his
businesses on all the posters and announced it at each part of the
dance, encouraging folks to give his hand a squeeze as they passed
him in line.
We also plan to try choosing a local non-profit to co-host each
dance, promoting it with their constituency and receiving a share of
the proceeds.
Promotion
We advertised all five dances in the series on one poster, but I
think we will also announce each separately again. A lot of the
promotion happened through local organizations, churches, and schools.
Problems
- I can't make all the dances so I will need to find a substitute,
which feels sad for me, but maybe it's a more sustainable pattern,
given how much I travel for work.
- A lot of the families with younger kids stayed through the break
and were still there at 8:00 so it was a little challenging to meet
their needs and still make all the high school students and adults
who had come feel like this wasn't a little kid event. They mostly
danced one or two dances, which I made appropriate for their level,
though, so it worked out fine.
- We jury-rigged our sound system, which was imperfect. More money/
attention needed for that as we go.
Question
Do you have any suggestions for us about starting a new series?
We're all ears!!
Sorry to miss you at Ralph Page -- I'm sure it was wonderful.
Thanks!
Delia Clark
<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>
Delia Clark
PO Box 45
Taftsville, VT 05073
802-457-2075
delia_clark(a)comcast.net
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-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [Callers] A Shadow Swing and New moves for contras...
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 13:52:55 -0500
From: Linda Leslie <laleslierjg(a)comcast.net>
Reply-To: Caller's discussion list <callers(a)sharedweight.net>
To: callers(a)sharedweight.net
References: <mailman.1.1201194002.22973.callers(a)sharedweight.net>
Greetings!
I very much agree with Greg's list of "thoughts about contra dance
moves". This is an area that begs for lots of wonderful
conversations among callers...we have a responsibility to keep a
healthy balance between the traditions, and the evolution of dancing.
I encourage one of you to apply for NEFFA 2009 (the schedule for 2008
is all done!), with this as a topic for discussion!
And as for shadow swings, three cheers to Chris Weiler for his
thoughts! One of the most satisfying venues for me to call is the
community dance, where dancers are happy to dance with each other,
regardless of skill. There is a recognition of the need to "take
care" of one another in order for the joy of the dance to be shared
by all, and an understanding that the dancing will continue only if
we make sure that new dancers feel welcome. The dance in Rehoboth,
MA is probably one of the best community dances that demonstrates
this commitment. I, like Chris, when dancing, tend to wait until the
last minute, and ask someone I don't know, or who seems shy, to
dance. If is works out to be fun, then it is great for both of us; if
is was not so pleasurable, thus is life....and after all, a dance is
*only* 12 minutes or so! The same can be said for having a shadow
that you do not choose: there is the potential serendipity of making
a new friend, or the possibility of a less than thrilling experience.
I am willing to take the risk! Certainly only one dance in an evening
with a shadow swing would be advisable, but not calling any at all
also seems to me to be a mistake.
I am also reminded of an experience at a very small dance on Cape
Cod. A not so skilled dancer (gent) who had trouble hearing the
calls, was a fervent attendee at the dance in Sandwich. Because the
number of dancers is small (though high in energy!), it was obvious
that this gent was left out until the end or entirely, and often
would be paired with new dancers. The experienced women got together
and decided that they would each take a turn asking him to dance one
dance on any given evening. What a marvelous plan! He was as happy as
could be, smiling the whole evening, and the dance in general was
more enjoyable for all as a consequence. He may not have been on
time, or skilled, but the joy from him made everybody feel great!
So Jeremy, I would say don't be shy about calling a dance with a
shadow swing!
warmly, Linda Leslie
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Callers] Callers Digest, Vol 41, Issue 15
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 20:10:05 -0800
From: Martha Wild <mawild(a)sbcglobal.net>
Reply-To: Caller's discussion list <callers(a)sharedweight.net>
To: callers(a)sharedweight.net
References: <mailman.1.1201280402.46075.callers(a)sharedweight.net>
Linda,
I enjoyed your post. Years ago we had two dancers at our dance who
were terrible dancers, though they had danced for a long time and
thought of themselves as experienced dancers, and the combination of
that and being avoided by the women who knew them meant they would
ask beginners to dance, totally confusing them and causing whole sets
to fall apart. Similar to your story, a group of us women got
together and decided we would be the "sacrificial squad" and take
turns "neutralizing" them when they showed up by asking them to
dance before they could ask a beginner. It certainly made the dances
go a lot more smoothly and beginners came back more frequently when
they felt competent and not confused, so it was worth the sacrifice.
I wonder if they ever marveled at why suddenly they were so popular.
I wish I could say they became better dancers, but they eventually
moved so the squad happily disbanded.
Regarding shadow swings - at a dance out of town I ended up with a
shadow and we suddenly recognized each other as having been in school
together years ago, so that was fun. Part of the mystery of life -
sometimes you get a prize, sometimes you don't.
Martha
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Callers] Callers Digest, Vol 41, Issue 15
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 11:11:04 -0500
From: Lindsay Morris <lindsay(a)TSMworks.com>
Reply-To: Caller's discussion list <callers(a)sharedweight.net>
To: Caller's discussion list <callers(a)sharedweight.net>
References: <mailman.1.1201280402.46075.callers(a)sharedweight.net>
<7F7DD1A4-7518-41B0-A9B4-EA6DD0DD50DE(a)sbcglobal.net>
Interesting.
We went a step farther at another dance.
A (charming!) older man was slow-moving and hard of hearing, and caused
problems.
So a "sacrificial squad" of women would, one by one, dance with him and
manage him.
(He had a great time; we hope he never knew.)
But we also had a couple of "angels", men who would follow this
progress, and make sure the "lamb" got a great dance immediately after
their sacrifice.
(We made a point to tell the lambs we appreciated what they were doing.)
Hello everyone,
Once again, frigid New Hampshire was home to another warm and special
Ralph Page Dance Legacy Weekend. It was great to see people from all
over the country who came to dance and learn. The SharedWeight lunch
gatherings were a couple of the high points for me. We had fascinating
discussions about style, teaching, stubborn minded dancers, stubborn
minded callers, psychology, choreography and so much more.
Both Beth Parkes and Nils Freidland's caller's workshops made us think
and philosophize this year. Beth's on what it means to be a
"professional" caller. And Nil's on why we dance, why we call and what
virtues we want and need to bring to the stage with us.
The retrospective video about Ralph Sweet by David Millstone was great!
Fun and funny and informative, David again shows his talent for
storytelling.
It would be great to hear from other people about their favorite parts.
It was great to see everyone who came!
Happy Dancing!
Chris Weiler
