28 Jan
2008
28 Jan
'08
12:11 p.m.
i've seen a few replies recently talking about dealing with certain types of
"bad" dancers. (perhaps i am not receiving some posts, since i didn't see
the originals that were being replied to). i am interested in hearing
comments on a particular type of "bad" dancer. i am referring to people that
can be depended on to be late and/or confused about the next step, but NOT
because they suffer from some physical infirmity, and NOT because of lack of
experience. they may have been attending dances for months or years. it is
because they seem to be more interested in flirting with partner then in
paying attention to the dance. they are the type that if spoken to about
their lack of paying attention will excuse themselves by explaining that
they are "only here to have fun". of course, fun for them means less fun
for those dancing near them.
comments?
Jeffrey
29 Jan
29 Jan
8:14 a.m.
Hi Jeffrey,
The name that I've been using for this type of dancer is "hot shot". For
them it's more about showing off and flourishes than community. Having
danced for a while now, I'm convinced that most people go through this
stage before they move on to being more of a community dancer. I'm
guilty of spending some time dancing like that, too.
My interpretation of the phrase "only here to have fun" leads me to
think that they are more commenting on feeling pressured and lectured
about their dancing. Maybe if they were approached with more positive
approach. "I would have enjoyed our dance more if you had been on time
for the balance." "It's such a thrill when you help me get to the right
person in time for the next move."
I'm getting a little humorous, but I think that I'm making my point.
Make the comments about how we personally experience their actions and
not about doing it "wrong" and it could get a whole different reaction.
Maybe I'll take some heat for this, but I believe that there are very
few "bad" dancers in this world. There are only people who haven't
practiced enough to learn what good and bad dancing means. It just takes
some people longer than others to learn the lessons. They deserve our
patience and some straightforward feedback.
I would love to hear other people's thoughts about this as well.
Chris Weiler
Goffstown, NH
P.S. You didn't miss any previous posts. I compiled some interesting
e-mails from the Caller's list and sent them to this one.
astro46(a)apricoto.com wrote:
i've seen a few replies recently talking about
dealing with certain types of
"bad" dancers. (perhaps i am not receiving some posts, since i didn't see
the originals that were being replied to). i am interested in hearing
comments on a particular type of "bad" dancer. i am referring to people that
can be depended on to be late and/or confused about the next step, but NOT
because they suffer from some physical infirmity, and NOT because of lack of
experience. they may have been attending dances for months or years. it is
because they seem to be more interested in flirting with partner then in
paying attention to the dance. they are the type that if spoken to about
their lack of paying attention will excuse themselves by explaining that
they are "only here to have fun". of course, fun for them means less fun
for those dancing near them.
comments?
Jeffrey
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list
Organizers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/organizers
11:59 a.m.
When I read the post yesterday about the dancers (guys...) who are
late because they're having fun flirting I immediately thought of one
fellow at one of our local dances. Then Chris writing about a "hot
shot" was a very different picture. The fellow I thought of does
this dreamy kind of doe-eyed dancing/flirting and when I follow him
down the set just about every woman he dances with arrives late,
often because she's having to disentangle herself from his dreamy
allemande or whatever figure. I don't know what can really be done
about that... the power of the dance organizer is somewhat limited,
and besides, I wouldn't want everyone to be just perfect, because
then when I'm in a playful mood (which is not infrequent) I might
have to overly restrain my impulses!
I remember years ago someone saying to me, "Every woman who leaves
dancing with you has a smile on her face.", which may or may not be
true, but it's stuck with me as a measure of when a dance is going
well... if people are smiling and laughing, the particulars of how
the dance is going really doesn't make too much difference.
Stephen Moore
Lenox, MA Contra Dance
On Jan 29, 2008, at 8:14 AM, Chris Weiler wrote:
Hi Jeffrey,
The name that I've been using for this type of dancer is "hot
shot". For
them it's more about showing off and flourishes than community. Having
danced for a while now, I'm convinced that most people go through this
stage before they move on to being more of a community dancer. I'm
guilty of spending some time dancing like that, too.
My interpretation of the phrase "only here to have fun" leads me to
think that they are more commenting on feeling pressured and lectured
about their dancing. Maybe if they were approached with more positive
approach. "I would have enjoyed our dance more if you had been on time
for the balance." "It's such a thrill when you help me get to the
right
person in time for the next move."
I'm getting a little humorous, but I think that I'm making my point.
Make the comments about how we personally experience their actions and
not about doing it "wrong" and it could get a whole different
reaction.
Maybe I'll take some heat for this, but I believe that there are very
few "bad" dancers in this world. There are only people who haven't
practiced enough to learn what good and bad dancing means. It just
takes
some people longer than others to learn the lessons. They deserve our
patience and some straightforward feedback.
I would love to hear other people's thoughts about this as well.
Chris Weiler
Goffstown, NH
P.S. You didn't miss any previous posts. I compiled some interesting
e-mails from the Caller's list and sent them to this one.
astro46(a)apricoto.com wrote:
i've seen a few replies recently talking
about dealing with
certain types of
"bad" dancers. (perhaps i am not receiving some posts, since i
didn't see
the originals that were being replied to). i am interested in hearing
comments on a particular type of "bad" dancer. i am referring to
people that
can be depended on to be late and/or confused about the next step,
but NOT
because they suffer from some physical infirmity, and NOT because
of lack of
experience. they may have been attending dances for months or
years. it is
because they seem to be more interested in flirting with partner
then in
paying attention to the dance. they are the type that if spoken to
about
their lack of paying attention will excuse themselves by
explaining that
they are "only here to have fun". of course, fun for them means
less fun
for those dancing near them.
comments?
Jeffrey
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list
Organizers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/organizers
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list
Organizers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/organizers
12:45 p.m.
a few comments on the already posted comments:
some time ago i sat down next to the mentioned example dancer (who responded
with a comment to the effect of "here comes the heat") and tried to explain
concepts of number of beats to a step, asked if he had trouble hearing the
rhythm, how his dancing affects the dancing of those around him, etc. after
this his dancing improved somewhat for a few weeks, then back to the
original goofing off.
this person is not a 'hot shot'. 'hot shots' often do become good
dancers,
as 'hot shotting' at least shows that they are interested enough to be
really good dancers, but are a bit ahead of themselves. this uncaring person
simply doesn't know what step is next, which direction to go, because he
isn't paying attention.
as for people smiling and having fun: without question this is good, and
important. but not the sole criteria. in this case, for example, the
mentioned person is always grinning; clearly, a well executed dance is not
the reason for it. regularly attending, fun loving, smiling people who don't
care enough about contra dancing to do it correctly on a basic level are not
adding anything positive to the dance, only to themselves. and, in fact,
drive away many people who are interested in contra dancing. i'm sure that i
will get criticized for this, but i would rather this person stop coming to
the dance, then come, having a 'fun' time, and making a less 'fun' time
for
others. a sense of community and being tolerant of others is good, but it
goes both ways. the 'uncaring' dancers are not showing any sense of
community/responsibility for the activity that they are participating in.
jeffrey
-----Original Message-----
From: organizers-bounces(a)sharedweight.net
[mailto:organizers-bounces@sharedweight.net] On Behalf Of
Stephen Moore
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 11:00 AM
To: A list for dance organizers
Subject: Re: [Organizers] uncaring "bad" dancers
When I read the post yesterday about the dancers (guys...)
who are late because they're having fun flirting I
immediately thought of one fellow at one of our local dances.
Then Chris writing about a "hot shot" was a very different
picture. The fellow I thought of does this dreamy kind of
doe-eyed dancing/flirting and when I follow him down the set
just about every woman he dances with arrives late, often
because she's having to disentangle herself from his dreamy
allemande or whatever figure. I don't know what can really
be done about that... the power of the dance organizer is
somewhat limited, and besides, I wouldn't want everyone to be
just perfect, because then when I'm in a playful mood (which
is not infrequent) I might have to overly restrain my impulses!
I remember years ago someone saying to me, "Every woman who
leaves dancing with you has a smile on her face.", which may
or may not be true, but it's stuck with me as a measure of
when a dance is going well... if people are smiling and
laughing, the particulars of how the dance is going really
doesn't make too much difference.
Stephen Moore
Lenox, MA Contra Dance
On Jan 29, 2008, at 8:14 AM, Chris Weiler wrote:
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list
Organizers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/organizers
Hi Jeffrey,
The name that I've been using for this type of dancer is
"hot
shot".
For them it's more about showing off and
flourishes than community.
Having danced for a while now, I'm convinced that most people go
through this stage before they move on to being more of a community
dancer. I'm guilty of spending some time dancing like that, too.
My interpretation of the phrase "only here to have fun" leads me to
think that they are more commenting on feeling pressured
and lectured
about their dancing. Maybe if they were
approached with
more positive
approach. "I would have enjoyed our dance
more if you had
been on time
for the balance." "It's such a
thrill when you help me get to the
right person in time for the next move."
I'm getting a little humorous, but I think that I'm making my point.
Make the comments about how we personally experience their
actions and
not about doing it "wrong" and it could
get a whole different
reaction.
Maybe I'll take some heat for this, but I believe that
there are very
few "bad" dancers in this world. There
are only people who haven't
practiced enough to learn what good and bad dancing means. It just
takes some people longer than others to learn the lessons. They
deserve our patience and some straightforward feedback.
I would love to hear other people's thoughts about this as well.
Chris Weiler
Goffstown, NH
P.S. You didn't miss any previous posts. I compiled some
interesting
e-mails from the Caller's list and sent them
to this one.
astro46(a)apricoto.com wrote:
> i've seen a few replies recently talking about dealing
with certain
> types of "bad" dancers. (perhaps i
am not receiving some
posts, since
> i didn't see the originals that were
being replied to). i am
> interested in hearing comments on a particular type of
"bad"
dancer.
> i am referring to people that can be depended
on to be late and/or
> confused about the next step, but NOT because they suffer
from some
> physical infirmity, and NOT because of lack
of experience.
they may
> have been attending dances for months or
years. it is because they
> seem to be more interested in flirting with partner then in paying
> attention to the dance. they are the type that if spoken to about
> their lack of paying attention will excuse themselves by
explaining
> that they are "only here to have
fun". of course, fun for
them means
less fun
for those dancing near them.
comments?
Jeffrey
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list
Organizers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/organizers
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list
Organizers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/organizers
30 Jan
30 Jan
8 a.m.
Hi Jeffrey,
Sorry to have incorrectly interpreted your situation. I don't think that
I've ever encountered someone who does not have some ambition to be a
better dancer or to be perceived as a good partner. In your original
post, you said that he was late because he was paying more attention to
flirting than what was happening with the music/dance. What kind of
reaction is he getting from the women? Is he getting a positive reaction
because he is charming or handsome? If so, he may be getting exactly
what he wants out of the dance and doesn't feel he needs to change.
As I said in my earlier post, maybe a different approach is needed. His
"here comes the heat" comment indicates to me that his defenses were up
and that he was not receptive to the constructive criticism. Maybe he
needs to hear this from a few of the more experienced women in the
community. It wouldn't hurt if they were attractive, too. It seems to me
that it's their opinion that matters to him. Encourage them to explain
how much more fun it would be to dance with him if he were on time and
knew what the next move was. And also to praise him if there is an
improvement. They may also give more insight into what they think is
going on with him.
Good Luck! I hope this has helped!
Chris
astro46(a)apricoto.com wrote:
a few comments on the already posted comments:
some time ago i sat down next to the mentioned example dancer (who responded
with a comment to the effect of "here comes the heat") and tried to explain
concepts of number of beats to a step, asked if he had trouble hearing the
rhythm, how his dancing affects the dancing of those around him, etc. after
this his dancing improved somewhat for a few weeks, then back to the
original goofing off.
this person is not a 'hot shot'. 'hot shots' often do become good
dancers,
as 'hot shotting' at least shows that they are interested enough to be
really good dancers, but are a bit ahead of themselves. this uncaring person
simply doesn't know what step is next, which direction to go, because he
isn't paying attention.
as for people smiling and having fun: without question this is good, and
important. but not the sole criteria. in this case, for example, the
mentioned person is always grinning; clearly, a well executed dance is not
the reason for it. regularly attending, fun loving, smiling people who don't
care enough about contra dancing to do it correctly on a basic level are not
adding anything positive to the dance, only to themselves. and, in fact,
drive away many people who are interested in contra dancing. i'm sure that i
will get criticized for this, but i would rather this person stop coming to
the dance, then come, having a 'fun' time, and making a less 'fun' time
for
others. a sense of community and being tolerant of others is good, but it
goes both ways. the 'uncaring' dancers are not showing any sense of
community/responsibility for the activity that they are participating in.
jeffrey
> -----Original Message-----
> From: organizers-bounces(a)sharedweight.net
> [mailto:organizers-bounces@sharedweight.net] On Behalf Of
> Stephen Moore
> Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 11:00 AM
> To: A list for dance organizers
> Subject: Re: [Organizers] uncaring "bad" dancers
>
> When I read the post yesterday about the dancers (guys...)
> who are late because they're having fun flirting I
> immediately thought of one fellow at one of our local dances.
> Then Chris writing about a "hot shot" was a very different
> picture. The fellow I thought of does this dreamy kind of
> doe-eyed dancing/flirting and when I follow him down the set
> just about every woman he dances with arrives late, often
> because she's having to disentangle herself from his dreamy
> allemande or whatever figure. I don't know what can really
> be done about that... the power of the dance organizer is
> somewhat limited, and besides, I wouldn't want everyone to be
> just perfect, because then when I'm in a playful mood (which
> is not infrequent) I might have to overly restrain my impulses!
>
> I remember years ago someone saying to me, "Every woman who
> leaves dancing with you has a smile on her face.", which may
> or may not be true, but it's stuck with me as a measure of
> when a dance is going well... if people are smiling and
> laughing, the particulars of how the dance is going really
> doesn't make too much difference.
>
> Stephen Moore
> Lenox, MA Contra Dance
> On Jan 29, 2008, at 8:14 AM, Chris Weiler wrote:
>
>
>> Hi Jeffrey,
>>
>> The name that I've been using for this type of dancer is
>>
> "hot shot".
>
>> For them it's more about showing off and flourishes than community.
>> Having danced for a while now, I'm convinced that most people go
>> through this stage before they move on to being more of a community
>> dancer. I'm guilty of spending some time dancing like that, too.
>>
>> My interpretation of the phrase "only here to have fun" leads me to
>> think that they are more commenting on feeling pressured
>>
> and lectured
>
>> about their dancing. Maybe if they were approached with
>>
> more positive
>
>> approach. "I would have enjoyed our dance more if you had
>>
> been on time
>
>> for the balance." "It's such a thrill when you help me get to the
>> right person in time for the next move."
>>
>> I'm getting a little humorous, but I think that I'm making my point.
>> Make the comments about how we personally experience their
>>
> actions and
>
>> not about doing it "wrong" and it could get a whole different
>> reaction.
>>
>> Maybe I'll take some heat for this, but I believe that
>>
> there are very
>
>> few "bad" dancers in this world. There are only people who haven't
>> practiced enough to learn what good and bad dancing means. It just
>> takes some people longer than others to learn the lessons. They
>> deserve our patience and some straightforward feedback.
>>
>> I would love to hear other people's thoughts about this as well.
>>
>> Chris Weiler
>> Goffstown, NH
>>
>> P.S. You didn't miss any previous posts. I compiled some
>>
> interesting
>
>> e-mails from the Caller's list and sent them to this one.
>>
>>
>>
>> astro46(a)apricoto.com wrote:
>>
>>> i've seen a few replies recently talking about dealing
>>>
> with certain
>
>>> types of "bad" dancers. (perhaps i am not receiving some
>>>
> posts, since
>
>>> i didn't see the originals that were being replied to). i am
>>> interested in hearing comments on a particular type of
>>>
> "bad" dancer.
>
>>> i am referring to people that can be depended on to be late and/or
>>> confused about the next step, but NOT because they suffer
>>>
> from some
>
>>> physical infirmity, and NOT because of lack of experience.
>>>
> they may
>
>>> have been attending dances for months or years. it is because they
>>> seem to be more interested in flirting with partner then in paying
>>> attention to the dance. they are the type that if spoken to about
>>> their lack of paying attention will excuse themselves by
>>>
> explaining
>
>>> that they are "only here to have fun". of course, fun for
>>>
> them means
>
>>> less fun for those dancing near them.
>>>
>>> comments?
>>>
>>> Jeffrey
>>>
>>>
>>>
4:32 p.m.
Chris, it has occurred to me to speak with some of the women that seem to be
friendly with him to find out if there isn't some infirmity that i am not
aware of. your comment will inspire me to act on that. and, perhaps, also
suggest that they might speak to him about paying attention.
i'll report back with any results.
jeffrey
-----Original Message-----
From: organizers-bounces(a)sharedweight.net
[mailto:organizers-bounces@sharedweight.net] On Behalf Of Chris Weiler
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 7:01 AM
To: A list for dance organizers
Subject: Re: [Organizers] uncaring "bad" dancers
Hi Jeffrey,
Sorry to have incorrectly interpreted your situation. I don't
think that I've ever encountered someone who does not have
some ambition to be a better dancer or to be perceived as a
good partner. In your original post, you said that he was
late because he was paying more attention to flirting than
what was happening with the music/dance. What kind of
reaction is he getting from the women? Is he getting a
positive reaction because he is charming or handsome? If so,
he may be getting exactly what he wants out of the dance and
doesn't feel he needs to change.
As I said in my earlier post, maybe a different approach is
needed. His "here comes the heat" comment indicates to me
that his defenses were up and that he was not receptive to
the constructive criticism. Maybe he needs to hear this from
a few of the more experienced women in the community. It
wouldn't hurt if they were attractive, too. It seems to me
that it's their opinion that matters to him. Encourage them
to explain how much more fun it would be to dance with him if
he were on time and knew what the next move was. And also to
praise him if there is an improvement. They may also give
more insight into what they think is going on with him.
Good Luck! I hope this has helped!
Chris
astro46(a)apricoto.com wrote:
a few comments on the already posted comments:
some time ago i sat down next to the mentioned example dancer (who
responded with a comment to the effect of "here comes the
heat") and
tried to explain concepts of number of beats to a
step, asked if he
had trouble hearing the rhythm, how his dancing affects the
dancing of
those around him, etc. after this his dancing
improved
somewhat for a
few weeks, then back to the original goofing
off.
this person is not a 'hot shot'. 'hot shots' often do become good
dancers, as 'hot shotting' at least shows that they are interested
enough to be really good dancers, but are a bit ahead of
themselves.
this uncaring person simply doesn't know what
step is next, which
direction to go, because he isn't paying attention.
as for people smiling and having fun: without question this
is good,
and important. but not the sole criteria. in this
case, for
example,
the mentioned person is always grinning; clearly,
a well executed
dance is not the reason for it. regularly attending, fun loving,
smiling people who don't care enough about contra dancing to do it
correctly on a basic level are not adding anything positive to the
dance, only to themselves. and, in fact, drive away many people who
are interested in contra dancing. i'm sure that i will get
criticized
for this, but i would rather this person stop
coming to the dance,
then come, having a 'fun' time, and making a less 'fun' time for
others. a sense of community and being tolerant of others
is good, but
it goes both ways. the 'uncaring' dancers
are not showing
any sense of community/responsibility for the activity that
they are participating in.
jeffrey
> -----Original Message-----
> From: organizers-bounces(a)sharedweight.net
> [mailto:organizers-bounces@sharedweight.net] On Behalf Of Stephen
> Moore
> Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 11:00 AM
> To: A list for dance organizers
> Subject: Re: [Organizers] uncaring "bad" dancers
>
> When I read the post yesterday about the dancers (guys...) who are
> late because they're having fun flirting I immediately
thought of one
> fellow at one of our local dances.
> Then Chris writing about a "hot shot" was a very
different
picture.
> The fellow I thought of does this dreamy kind
of doe-eyed
> dancing/flirting and when I follow him down the set just
about every
> woman he dances with arrives late, often
because she's having to
> disentangle herself from his dreamy allemande or whatever
figure. I
> don't know what can really be done about
that... the power of the
> dance organizer is somewhat limited, and besides, I wouldn't want
> everyone to be just perfect, because then when I'm in a
playful mood
> (which is not infrequent) I might have to
overly restrain my
> impulses!
>
> I remember years ago someone saying to me, "Every woman who leaves
> dancing with you has a smile on her face.", which may or
may not be
> true, but it's stuck with me as a measure
of when a dance is going
> well... if people are smiling and laughing, the particulars of how
> the dance is going really doesn't make too much difference.
>
> Stephen Moore
> Lenox, MA Contra Dance
> On Jan 29, 2008, at 8:14 AM, Chris Weiler wrote:
>
>
>> Hi Jeffrey,
>>
>> The name that I've been using for this type of dancer is
>>
> "hot shot".
>
>> For them it's more about showing off and flourishes than
community.
>> Having danced for a while now, I'm
convinced that most people go
>> through this stage before they move on to being more of a
community
>> dancer. I'm guilty of spending some
time dancing like that, too.
>>
>> My interpretation of the phrase "only here to have fun"
leads
me to
>> think that they are more commenting on
feeling pressured
>>
> and lectured
>
>> about their dancing. Maybe if they were approached with
>>
> more positive
>
>> approach. "I would have enjoyed our dance more if you had
>>
> been on time
>
>> for the balance." "It's such a thrill when you help me get to the
>> right person in time for the next move."
>>
>> I'm getting a little humorous, but I think that I'm
making my
point.
>> Make the comments about how we personally
experience their
>>
> actions and
>
>> not about doing it "wrong" and it could get a whole different
>> reaction.
>>
>> Maybe I'll take some heat for this, but I believe that
>>
> there are very
>
>> few "bad" dancers in this world. There are only people
who
haven't
>> practiced enough to learn what good and
bad dancing
means. It just
>> takes some people longer than others to
learn the lessons. They
>> deserve our patience and some straightforward feedback.
>>
>> I would love to hear other people's thoughts about this as well.
>>
>> Chris Weiler
>> Goffstown, NH
>>
>> P.S. You didn't miss any previous posts. I compiled some
>>
> interesting
>
>> e-mails from the Caller's list and sent them to this one.
>>
>>
>>
>> astro46(a)apricoto.com wrote:
>>
>>> i've seen a few replies recently talking about dealing
>>>
> with certain
>
>>> types of "bad" dancers. (perhaps i am not receiving some
>>>
> posts, since
>
>>> i didn't see the originals that were being replied to). i am
>>> interested in hearing comments on a particular type of
>>>
> "bad" dancer.
>
>>> i am referring to people that can be depended on to be
late and/or
>>> confused about the next step, but NOT
because they suffer
>>>
> from some
>
>>> physical infirmity, and NOT because of lack of experience.
>>>
> they may
>
>>> have been attending dances for months or years. it is
because they
>>> seem to be more interested in
flirting with partner then
in paying
>>> attention to the dance. they are the
type that if spoken
to about
>>> their lack of paying attention will
excuse themselves by
>>>
> explaining
>
>>> that they are "only here to have fun". of course, fun for
>>>
> them means
>
>>> less fun for those dancing near them.
>>>
>>> comments?
>>>
>>> Jeffrey
>>>
>>>
>>>
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list
Organizers(a)sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/organizers
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musicians@lists.sharedweight.net
5 comments
3 participants
participants (3)
-
astro46＠apricoto.com -
Chris Weiler -
Stephen Moore