30 Jan
2008
30 Jan
'08
6:54 p.m.
Hi all, I may have missed some of the thread, it
appears I have. I've snipped the repeated threads from
this response.
I am responding to the Organizers Digest, Vol 6, Issue
6 post.
I have a different "bad" dancer food for thought. We
have dancers who have been attending dances for at
least 2-3 years now. I understand there are those
with limitations. I understand they keep coming back
because its a community and the dance is doing what it
is supposed to do, offer the means for all to share
the music through their feet and dance with others.
However, it does interrupt flow for other dancers and
for the dance itself, when someone has absolutely no
sense of being on time, or what the flow or beat is.
It appears sometimes they really don't care, but I
find it hard to imagine that, or don't want to.
Again, I can understand that someone with physical or
age limitation can't move faster, etc, and communities
have ways of working with these folks. But how do you
work with those others?
Laurie
~~
~ What the heart has once owned.....it shall never lose. ~
~ Henry Ward Beecher~
~~
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30 Jan
30 Jan
7:13 p.m.
New subject: [Organizers] uncaring "bad" dancers
I find it interesting that there's so much focus here on "bad"
dancers... there are so many ways that one can be different, and
judgments aren't all that reliable. I know one person, an
"excellent" dancer, who isn't fun to dance with because she's always
just a little bit ahead, and guides her partner (rarely me) into the
next figure just before it's necessary. Leave me alone! Let me get
there at the right time! I want to wrench myself away from her
guidance! And then, after passing her by, there's often someone
really smiley, right on time, great swing, and the moment has passed.
So... do dance organizers have a responsibility to police all of
this? When this thread began I was thinking it was about people who
become rowdy, or a nuisance to others... not about not particularly
competent dancers. I remember a dance several years ago in
Greenfield, MA where one dancer, well known to the community, crossed
a behavior line. Some of the other regular dancers intervened,
escorted this person out, and I didn't see that person reappear there
for a long time. I doubt that the "organizers" got together quickly,
made a judgment, and sent the goon squad to put this person out. It
was just the right time for a couple of people to protect the
community. Done.
So, perhaps I can refocus this thread... what obligation, and what
means or tools, do organizers have for the truly obnoxious people,
the ones who really make people uncomfortable with their behaviors
(and I mean beyond the dancing, though it can include some dancing
behaviors such as insistently spinning every woman, winding them up
in a mixer, regardless of the woman's clear messages to desist)?
People who show up with what appears to be too much alcohol going on,
or who become loud or aggressive, or who seems to be generally rude.
Let's let the odd dancers be odd dancers, maybe supporting them as
there were earlier suggestions (with some folks willing to quietly
intervene as angels), and maybe they'll learn a bit, maybe they
won't, but life is like that and there are bigger fish to fry.
Stephen Moore
Lenox (MA) Contra Dance
On Jan 30, 2008, at 1:54 PM, Laur wrote:
Hi all, I may have missed some of the thread, it
appears I have. I've snipped the repeated threads from
this response.
I am responding to the Organizers Digest, Vol 6, Issue
6 post.
I have a different "bad" dancer food for thought. We
have dancers who have been attending dances for at
least 2-3 years now. I understand there are those
with limitations. I understand they keep coming back
because its a community and the dance is doing what it
is supposed to do, offer the means for all to share
the music through their feet and dance with others.
However, it does interrupt flow for other dancers and
for the dance itself, when someone has absolutely no
sense of being on time, or what the flow or beat is.
It appears sometimes they really don't care, but I
find it hard to imagine that, or don't want to.
Again, I can understand that someone with physical or
age limitation can't move faster, etc, and communities
have ways of working with these folks. But how do you
work with those others?
Laurie
~~
~ What the heart has once owned.....it shall never lose. ~
~ Henry Ward Beecher~
~~
______________________________________________________________________
______________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://
mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
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9:25 p.m.
New subject: [Organizers] uncaring "bad" dancers
comments interlaced below:
-----Original Message-----
From: organizers-bounces(a)sharedweight.net
[mailto:organizers-bounces@sharedweight.net] On Behalf Of
Stephen Moore
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 1:14 PM
To: A list for dance organizers
Subject: Re: [Organizers] uncaring "bad" dancers
I find it interesting that there's so much focus here on "bad"
dancers... there are so many ways that one can be different,
and judgments aren't all that reliable. I know one person,
an "excellent" dancer, who isn't fun to dance with because
she's always just a little bit ahead, and guides her partner
(rarely me) into the next figure just before it's necessary.
Leave me alone! Let me get there at the right time! I want
to wrench myself away from her guidance! And then, after
passing her by, there's often someone really smiley, right on
time, great swing, and the moment has passed.
i am not speaking of dancers that individuals may have technical issues
with. i am speaking of dancers that consistently mess up the dance for
everyone dancing near them.
So... do dance organizers have a responsibility to police all
of this? When this thread began I was thinking it was about
people who become rowdy, or a nuisance to others... not about
not particularly competent dancers. I remember a dance
several years ago in Greenfield, MA where one dancer, well
known to the community, crossed a behavior line. Some of the
other regular dancers intervened, escorted this person out,
and I didn't see that person reappear there for a long time.
I doubt that the "organizers" got together quickly, made a
judgment, and sent the goon squad to put this person out. It
was just the right time for a couple of people to protect the
community. Done.
i was not thinking of rowdy. i don't know what you mean by crossing a
behavior line, or what it meant in the situation you refer to. it might be
an interesting topic to discuss whether a group of dancers can escort
(remove) a dancer that they don't approve of, and, under what circumstances.
but that isn't the topic of this thread.
So, perhaps I can refocus this thread... what obligation, and
what means or tools, do organizers have for the truly
obnoxious people, the ones who really make people
uncomfortable with their behaviors (and I mean beyond the
dancing, though it can include some dancing behaviors such as
insistently spinning every woman, winding them up
in a mixer, regardless of the woman's clear messages to desist)?
People who show up with what appears to be too much alcohol
going on, or who become loud or aggressive, or who seems to
be generally rude.
again, not talking of the truly obnoxious people, though i certainly find
the 'uncaring dancer' personally obnoxious. but i don't think that this is
what you are referring to. i have rarely seen the type of obnoxious that you
are referring to. the 'uncaring' dancer is much more common. i prefer to
keep the focus of the thread as intended.
Let's let the odd dancers be odd dancers, maybe supporting
them as there were earlier suggestions (with some folks
willing to quietly intervene as angels), and maybe they'll
learn a bit, maybe they won't, but life is like that and
there are bigger fish to fry.
also, not referring to odd dancers. ie, people that are generally on time,
remember the steps, but have something about their style that is not in
keeping with common contra dance style. eg. i remember one dancer that had a
"modern dance" style to her dancing. this was dangerous at times, as she
tended to fling her arms out. this was an odd dancer.
the uncaring dancer is not an odd dancer, or generally obnoxious, or rowdy.
since they miss steps, are late, i would argue that the only thing that
qualifies them as a 'dancer' is that they are on the floor in the middle of
the dance. perhaps a bit of an exageration, but i am trying to make a point.
Stephen Moore
Lenox (MA) Contra Dance
jeffrey
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Stephen Moore