RE: Dave: Clockwise / counterclockwise - too wordy, and some people have trouble with this regardless. Hey: What about on the left diagonal? Along the set? I also really don't like the blaming of the dance if it's not 100% intuitive. Plenty of dances flow great but have a counter-intuitive element. Restricting dances to those without counter-intuitive moves is basically saying, "Sorry, if we want to be genderfree, we need to put a cap on how difficult a dance is. Sorry genderfree dancers, you aren't allowed to dance too advanced." That's a big problem. Rollaways can *not* be handled from left to right - who does the rolling is not indicated at all! On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 1:23 PM, Dave Casserly <david.j.casserly(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Also with regard to Ron's questions, numbers 2 and 3 (who-leads-whom and > who-walks-forward) can be handled by using the terms "clockwise" and > "counterclockwise." As to 4 (who passes whom for a hey), I agree with > Bob > that if the dance is good, it should be obvious, but even if not, "pass > left > shoulders in the middle for a hey for four" can only be interpreted one > way, > so that fixes the issue of referring to roles. Roll-aways can be > handled > with "roll away from the left to the right" or "roll away from the right > to > the left." > > I'm not saying that it's perfect, but it is actually quite doable to > call a > dance without referring to roles at all, even without resorting to first > or > second corners. > > Perry asked for an example of a dance with global terminology used. > Here's > one (just picking a common, typical dance): > > Square Affair, by Becky Hill > > A1 Long Lines, 1st corners chain (or just say "chain" if you're dealing > with > experienced dancers and don't want to use the corners terminology) > A2 Balance and pull by partner, pull by neighbor, balance and pull by > partner, pull by neighbor > B1 New neighbors balance and swing > B2 Circle 3/4, partner swing > > Perry, you also mentioned that you are trying to figure out how global > terminology would work for proper dances. I have always called proper > dances using global terminology without even thinking about it. For > Chorus > Jig, for instance, why would you ever need to use the term "gent" or > "lady"? > Down the outside, back, down the middle, back and neighbor > around-the-waist > turn, 1s turn contra corners, 1s balance and swing. Nothing that any > particular role does that the other role isn't doing at the same time. > > On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 9:41 AM, Bob Morgan via Callers > <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: >> >> With regard to Ron's questions >> >> 1. Would be easily covered by 1st or 2nd corners walk forward to a wave >> >> 2. Again can be done with reference to corners >> >> 3. Not so familiar with these. >> >> 4. You usually only need an obvious first pass person so not an issue I >> think >> >> 5. If you're facing out you turn, if you're facing across you walk is >> how >> I call it anyway >> >> Bob >> >> On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 5:09 PM, Ron Blechner via Callers >> <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: >>> >>> Andrea, how would you handle the following: >>> >>> 1. Lines of one role/position to the center to a wavy line, as in Trip >>> to >>> Lambertville, et all? >>> >>> 2. Indication of who walks forward / backs up in a gypsy star? >>> >>> 3. Indication of who-leads-who, such as in Ramsay Chase, Pedal >>> Pushers, >>> Jurassic Redheads, etc. >>> >>> 4. Indication of who is passing while calling a hey. >>> >>> 5. Indication of who crosses, who turns in a box circulate? >>> >>> 6. Indication any other role/position specific move that I haven't >>> mentioned? Turn over right shoulder, as in Fairport Harbour? >>> Rollaways? >>> >>> None of these fall under the "most unusual figures" as you stated. >>> >>> Ron >>> >>> On Jun 1, 2015 11:59 AM, "Andrea Nettleton via Callers" >>> <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: >>>> >>>> In previous discussions here, on FB, and privately with organizers at >>>> Hampshire over the last two years, I have discussed the possible use >>>> of >>>> global terminology for gender free contra. I would contend that if >>>> used, >>>> everyone would become more aware of the structure of dances. Only >>>> the most >>>> unusual figures/sequences would be unable to be called. The addition >>>> of >>>> first and second corner positions to the arsenal makes it possible >>>> for same >>>> role dancers to also be called upon to dance together without >>>> reference to >>>> gender. Second corners chain, or first corners allemande L 1 1/2 for >>>> example. It would have to be agreed that this refers to those >>>> standing in >>>> those positions at that moment. In ECD we use first and second >>>> corners to >>>> refer to the people, first and second diagonals for the positions. >>>> But >>>> since we use diagonal to refer to those across and over one set, this >>>> seems >>>> unhelpful. Simply corner positions works better. I'm glad some >>>> folks are >>>> trying it out at last. I had hoped for an opportunity myself before >>>> now. >>>> Cheers, >>>> Andrea >>>> >>>> Sent from my iOnlypretendtomultitask >>>> >>>> On Jun 1, 2015, at 8:37 AM, Jim Hemphill via Callers >>>> <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: >>>> >>>> The recent discussions on this topic inspired me to try an experiment >>>> in >>>> gender free calling. Last night I called the contra dance in St. >>>> Louis >>>> using gender free calling without telling anyone. The experiment >>>> was a >>>> great success. I received lots of positive feedback on the evenings >>>> dance. >>>> At the break and after the dance I made a point to ask several >>>> dancers, some >>>> were callers as well, if they noticed anything different or unusual >>>> about >>>> the dances or how I taught them. One person noticed that there were >>>> more >>>> dances that included a swing in the center for couple 2 than usual. >>>> No one >>>> I talked to noticed that the calls and teaching were gender free. >>>> >>>> It took some extra time to construct a fun, diverse 3 hour program, >>>> but >>>> it is certainly possible. Re-labeling the dancers is not the only >>>> way to >>>> call gender free. >>>> >>>> If you are interested in the program I used or the larger collection >>>> of >>>> gender free dances I chose the program from, send me an email, >>>> arcadian35(a)gmail.com. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Jim Hemphill >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Callers mailing list >>>> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >>>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Callers mailing list >>>> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >>>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Callers mailing list >>> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Callers mailing list >> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net >> > > > > -- > David Casserly > (cell) 781 258-2761 _______________________________________________ Callers mailing list Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net