Angela,
Square dance callers do these substitutions as well.
One very basic exercise for Modern Western Square Dance callers is to
develop sequences (2, 3, 4 or more) moves that get dancers to the zero box,
which is most easily visualized by having head couples move forward one
step, then turning away from your partner and facing your corner.
Add in sequences to rotate the square halfway, 1/4 or 3/4, use symmetrical
calls, and sets can easily be scrambled and then resolved using plug-in
sequences to "find your corner, allemande left, etc."
Back to contra:
Although one might consult an existing database, I think it's probably more
useful to develop ones own mental database by sitting down and writing
sequences for each situation. (In the case of contra, neutral (8-count and
16-count sequences), men change (8- and 16-count), women change (8- and
16-count), couples change (8- and 16-count)). Yes, you will likely develop
a list with much overlap with other callers, but I believe the exercise is
worth it. And you may come up with some unique, or at least rarely used,
combinations.
Good luck!
--Jerome
Jerome Grisanti
660-528-0858
http://www.jeromegrisanti.com
"Whatever you do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius and power
and magic in it." --Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
On Wed, Nov 15, 2017 at 12:29 PM, Angela DeCarlis via Callers <
callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> Look at Cary Ravitz's web page on contra dance choreography (
>> http://www.dance.ravitz.us/chor.php), especially the section on what he
>> calls black boxes. http://www.dance.ravitz.us/chor.php#m I think that
>> is exactly what you are asking about. He did a useful workshop on that
>> subject at Pigtown Fling a few years ago.
>>
>> David Harding
>>
>
> Thank you so much David! I think this is exactly the kind of information
> I'm looking for, but I'm finding the format which Cary has everything set
> in pretty difficult to digest. I'll have to set aside some time to parse
> the information in a way that makes more sense to me.
>
> Anyone else have any leads?
>
> Thanks!
> Angela
>
> On Wed, Nov 15, 2017 at 1:00 PM, DAVID HARDING <dharding101(a)comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Look at Cary Ravitz's web page on contra dance choreography (
>> http://www.dance.ravitz.us/chor.php), especially the section on what he
>> calls black boxes. http://www.dance.ravitz.us/chor.php#m I think that
>> is exactly what you are asking about. He did a useful workshop on that
>> subject at Pigtown Fling a few years ago.
>>
>> David Harding
>>
>> On November 15, 2017 at 11:39 AM Angela DeCarlis via Callers <
>> callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> I'm remembering a few workshops I'd taken with Rick Mohr a few years ago,
>> and also an occasion where I collected a dance from his calling. He happily
>> gave me the name and author of the dance, but was also quick to note that
>> he had substituted out different moves for 16 counts of the dance, so that
>> it would work better with his evening's program.
>>
>> Now, someone like Rick can just do this in his head. He has a data base
>> of common combinations of dance moves, and where everyone ends up after
>> executing them. As such, he can easily make substitutions on the fly,
>> because he knows offhand that A+B=X+Y.**
>>
>> What I'm wondering is, has anyone bothered to write down and compile a
>> list of common choreography substitutions? I'm thinking a spreadsheet of
>> some sort, where we think about the net product of various combinations of
>> dance moves, and categorize the combinations based on their output.
>>
>> For example: Neighbor Promenade across, Ladies Chain = Long Lines Forward
>> and Back, Gents Allemande L 11/2.
>>
>> If no one has already done this, I'll start a new thread where we can
>> begin to collaboratively write one up!
>>
>> Thanks, All!
>> Angela
>>
>>
>> **Yes, the momentum in each of these scenarios is probably different, and
>> one might be better than another. But this depends on the rest of the
>> dance's choreography, and for these purposes I don't especially care. :)
>>
>> ***Also worth acknowledging that substituting out an entire 16-count
>> phrase could easily result in calling a different dance written by a
>> different author, but I'm more concerned about using this technique for
>> practical programming purposes.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> List Name: Callers mailing list
>> List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
>
Look at Cary Ravitz's web page on contra dance choreography (http://www.dance.ravitz.us/chor.php), especially the section on what he calls black boxes. http://www.dance.ravitz.us/chor.php#m I think that is exactly what you are asking about. He did a useful workshop on that subject at Pigtown Fling a few years ago.
David Harding
> On November 15, 2017 at 11:39 AM Angela DeCarlis via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> Hello all,
>
> I'm remembering a few workshops I'd taken with Rick Mohr a few years ago, and also an occasion where I collected a dance from his calling. He happily gave me the name and author of the dance, but was also quick to note that he had substituted out different moves for 16 counts of the dance, so that it would work better with his evening's program.
>
> Now, someone like Rick can just do this in his head. He has a data base of common combinations of dance moves, and where everyone ends up after executing them. As such, he can easily make substitutions on the fly, because he knows offhand that A+B=X+Y.**
>
> What I'm wondering is, has anyone bothered to write down and compile a list of common choreography substitutions? I'm thinking a spreadsheet of some sort, where we think about the net product of various combinations of dance moves, and categorize the combinations based on their output.
>
> For example: Neighbor Promenade across, Ladies Chain = Long Lines Forward and Back, Gents Allemande L 11/2.
>
> If no one has already done this, I'll start a new thread where we can begin to collaboratively write one up!
>
> Thanks, All!
> Angela
>
>
> **Yes, the momentum in each of these scenarios is probably different, and one might be better than another. But this depends on the rest of the dance's choreography, and for these purposes I don't especially care. :)
>
> ***Also worth acknowledging that substituting out an entire 16-count phrase could easily result in calling a different dance written by a different author, but I'm more concerned about using this technique for practical programming purposes.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> List Name: Callers mailing list
> List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
>
Hello all,
I'm remembering a few workshops I'd taken with Rick Mohr a few years ago,
and also an occasion where I collected a dance from his calling. He happily
gave me the name and author of the dance, but was also quick to note that
he had substituted out different moves for 16 counts of the dance, so that
it would work better with his evening's program.
Now, someone like Rick can just do this in his head. He has a data base of
common combinations of dance moves, and where everyone ends up after
executing them. As such, he can easily make substitutions on the fly,
because he knows offhand that A+B=X+Y.**
What I'm wondering is, has anyone bothered to write down and compile a list
of common choreography substitutions? I'm thinking a spreadsheet of some
sort, where we think about the net product of various combinations of dance
moves, and categorize the combinations based on their output.
For example: Neighbor Promenade across, Ladies Chain = Long Lines Forward
and Back, Gents Allemande L 11/2.
If no one has already done this, I'll start a new thread where we can begin
to collaboratively write one up!
Thanks, All!
Angela
**Yes, the momentum in each of these scenarios is probably different, and
one might be better than another. But this depends on the rest of the
dance's choreography, and for these purposes I don't especially care. :)
***Also worth acknowledging that substituting out an entire 16-count phrase
could easily result in calling a different dance written by a different
author, but I'm more concerned about using this technique for practical
programming purposes.
Hi All,
First, it's been quite a while since I've contributed, and I have 767 unread Callers' List emails... Life's been busy. And, I've just replied to a couple emails without reading the whole thread. Hope I didn't butt in too soon..
Then, I've recently written a couple of dances. One I'm sure is new. The other I need to check with y'all to see if I actually did come up with it, or if I just recalled it from some distant or recent dance...
>>>>>>>> The new one >>>>>>>>>
Turnstile
Becket-Erik Hoffman
A1) Circle Left ¾; Pass Thru up & down, New Neighbor Swing
A2) Women Chain Right to Shadow; Men Allemande Left 1½
NOTE: actually, men are start an allemande for 3 full turns!
B1) Pick woman across, take her half way,
Women loop back WHILE men (continue) allemande half
Pick up Partner, take her half way (to original side)
Butterfly whirl
B2) Women (across) Do Si Do; Partner swing
For some reason, men want to end the allemande every time they pick someone up... The second time I called this I had the men allemande three times around, in the hopes they would get the feel of it. I also developed the call:
Men Allemande one and a half,
Pick up that neighbor there, take her just half way
Drop her off & go another half
Pick up your partner
Or something like that.
There are two square dances: The Texas Star (in some versions), and The Chinese Fan, that have men (or women) in a double star, and have the women (or men) looping back to the men (or women) behind.
>>>>>>> The second dance >>>>>>>>>
This is the one that needs to be checked.
If I did make it up I'm calling it Sole Delight, as it was first danced at the Springfield, Missouri Sole Fest.
So:
(The proposed) Sole Delight
Becket
A1) Petronella Balance with an overspin to new Neighbor
Neighbor swing
A2) Hey, Men start, Left shoulder-end in long waves, Men facing in, Women out, same Neighbor in Right Hand
B1) Box Circulate x 2
(Balance wave, Men Cross while Women loop Right; Balance Wave, Women Cross as Men loop)
B2) Box Circulate x 1 (Men Cross, Women Loop) Partner Swing
Is it new?
~Erik Hoffman
Oakland, CA
Although I basically agree with Yoyo, I state it slightly different:
The direction of a balance should always consider what happens after the balance. Note that the direction of movement of an allemande is forward. Then (from physics) the connection of the hands accelerates the forward motion into a circular motion. But recognizing that the initial direction of motion in either a left or right allemande is forward. Thus, following a wave balance with any allemande suggests a forward and back balance.
~Erik Hoffman
Oakland, CA
From: Callers [mailto:callers-bounces@lists.sharedweight.net] On Behalf Of Yoyo Zhou via Callers
Sent: Wednesday, November 8, 2017 1:03 PM
To: Maia McCormick <maia.mcc(a)gmail.com>
Cc: callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
Subject: Re: [Callers] Balancing LEFT in a wave?
For flow, it depends what comes after the balance. If it's followed by an allemande left, you'd be better balancing left. Allemande right: balance right. Walk forward: balance forward and back. Box circulate: right and back.
But getting dancers to balance left - except as the second half of a Rory O'More-type figure - is hopeless, in my experience. It's my vote for "hardest move in contra dancing".
So I'll say "balance forward and back" in such circumstances.
Yoyo Zhou
On Wed, Nov 8, 2017 at 11:07 AM, Maia McCormick via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net<mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net>> wrote:
Recently called a dance with an allemande R into long waves, balance wave, allemande L. Because of personal preference, I taught the balance as "balance left, then right", but cuz I didn't teach it all that clearly, the dancers defaulted back into balancing right first, and enough tricky stuff was happening in the dance that I didn't wanna correct them in flight.
I'm just wondering: do others agree that a balance left makes more sense / flows better in this context, or is this a weird personal preference? In your opinion, does the flow of the balance left outweigh its potential unidiomaticness?
Cheers,
Maia
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Great idea! I’ll use it, too.
~Erik Hoffman
Oakland, CA
From: Callers [mailto:callers-bounces@lists.sharedweight.net] On Behalf Of Bree Kalb via Callers
Sent: Wednesday, November 8, 2017 5:58 PM
To: Caller's discussion list <callers(a)sharedweight.net>
Subject: Re: [Callers] Put Your Red Hand In
Brilliant idea; I plan to use it, too.
Bree Kalb
Carrboro. NC
On Nov 6, 2017 7:19 PM, "Rich Sbardella via Callers" <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net<mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net>> wrote:
I had a Girl Scout Dance coming up Sunday and I was thinking how I would get 150 six to nine year old girls to know which hand was right and which hand is left. On the way to my contra calling gig on Saturday, the thought arose that right hand sounds very close to red hand. On the way to the Scout Dance, I stopped and purchased scissors and some red ribbon (the store did not carry yarn) and asked that the leaders tie a red ribbon bracelet around each scout as they entered the hall. When I called dances with arm turns I called, "Turn your partner with your red hand, change hands, other way back." It worked so well that I know I will do it again.
I thought I would share this trick, and then ask if anyone has useful methods when working with only children. Please share some trade secrets.
Rich Sbardella
Stafford, CT
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dale - left out! lol....sorry it's early here.
Mary
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On Fri, Nov 10, 2017 at 12:59 PM, Dale Wilson via Callers <
callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> Great idea. What did you call the other hand?
>
> Dale
>
> On Nov 9, 2017 8:52 PM, "David Harding via Callers" <
> callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> This evening I mentioned the brilliant idea to my Tai Ji instructor. She
>> loved it and plans to try it with her senior classes, where some of the
>> participants can get a little confused. This will be especially useful for
>> her, since she sometimes has trouble with left and right herself.
>>
>> David
>>
>> On 11/6/2017 6:19 PM, Rich Sbardella via Callers wrote:
>>
>> I had a Girl Scout Dance coming up Sunday and I was thinking how I would
>> get 150 six to nine year old girls to know which hand was right and which
>> hand is left. On the way to my contra calling gig on Saturday, the thought
>> arose that right hand sounds very close to red hand. On the way to the
>> Scout Dance, I stopped and purchased scissors and some red ribbon (the
>> store did not carry yarn) and asked that the leaders tie a red ribbon
>> bracelet around each scout as they entered the hall. When I called dances
>> with arm turns I called, "Turn your partner with your red hand, change
>> hands, other way back." It worked so well that I know I will do it again.
>>
>> I thought I would share this trick, and then ask if anyone has useful
>> methods when working with only children. Please share some trade secrets.
>>
>> Rich Sbardella
>> Stafford, CT
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> List Name: Callers mailing list
>> List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> List Name: Callers mailing list
>> List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> List Name: Callers mailing list
> List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
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>
>
I was in a dance with a similar sequence just last weekend.
Please bear in mind I'm piecing together memories from the middle of a
dance weekend. The caller was either Mary Wesley or David Eisenstadter
and I can't recall enough context to decide who it was. The part of
the dance I remember went like this:
ladies 4 steps in, balance wave R, L
gents in as ladies out, balance wave L, R
two gents allemande L half way, swing neighbour
I'm pretty sure I danced gent for most or all of this.
I thought that balancing left felt fine. It didn't seem to be too
unidiomatic, and it did make the allemande left better. Some parts of
the line were a little shakier on the left-first method but overall it
worked quite well. It helped me that the caller pointed out that the
balance was toward the gent in your current foursome first -- "you're
still working with that neighbour".
In your case, it sounds as if the waves are where you meet a new
neighbour (or perhaps a shadow), and describing it as your first
interaction with that person might help make it feel more idiomatic to
balance toward them. (But as others have pointed out, the allemande
right before the balance is another wrinkle to consider.)
Peter
On Wed, 2017-11-08 at 14:07 -0500, Maia McCormick via Callers wrote:
> Recently called a dance with an allemande R into long waves, balance
> wave, allemande L. Because of personal preference, I taught the
> balance as "balance left, then right", but cuz I didn't teach it all
> that clearly, the dancers defaulted back into balancing right first,
> and enough tricky stuff was happening in the dance that I didn't
> wanna correct them in flight.
>
> I'm just wondering: do others agree that a balance left makes more
> sense / flows better in this context, or is this a weird personal
> preference? In your opinion, does the flow of the balance left
> outweigh its potential unidiomaticness?
>
> Cheers,
> Maia
> _______________________________________________
> List Name: Callers mailing list
> List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.ne
> t/
This evening I mentioned the brilliant idea to my Tai Ji instructor.
She loved it and plans to try it with her senior classes, where some of
the participants can get a little confused. This will be especially
useful for her, since she sometimes has trouble with left and right herself.
David
On 11/6/2017 6:19 PM, Rich Sbardella via Callers wrote:
> I had a Girl Scout Dance coming up Sunday and I was thinking how I
> would get 150 six to nine year old girls to know which hand was right
> and which hand is left. On the way to my contra calling gig on
> Saturday, the thought arose that right hand sounds very close to red
> hand. On the way to the Scout Dance, I stopped and purchased scissors
> and some red ribbon (the store did not carry yarn) and asked that the
> leaders tie a red ribbon bracelet around each scout as they entered
> the hall. When I called dances with arm turns I called, "Turn your
> partner with your red hand, change hands, other way back." It worked
> so well that I know I will do it again.
>
> I thought I would share this trick, and then ask if anyone has useful
> methods when working with only children. Please share some trade secrets.
>
> Rich Sbardella
> Stafford, CT
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> List Name: Callers mailing list
> List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
Brilliant idea; I plan to use it, too.
Bree Kalb
Carrboro. NC
> On Nov 6, 2017 7:19 PM, "Rich Sbardella via Callers" <
> callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> I had a Girl Scout Dance coming up Sunday and I was thinking how I would
>> get 150 six to nine year old girls to know which hand was right and which
>> hand is left. On the way to my contra calling gig on Saturday, the thought
>> arose that right hand sounds very close to red hand. On the way to the
>> Scout Dance, I stopped and purchased scissors and some red ribbon (the
>> store did not carry yarn) and asked that the leaders tie a red ribbon
>> bracelet around each scout as they entered the hall. When I called dances
>> with arm turns I called, "Turn your partner with your red hand, change
>> hands, other way back." It worked so well that I know I will do it again.
>>
>> I thought I would share this trick, and then ask if anyone has useful
>> methods when working with only children. Please share some trade secrets.
>>
>> Rich Sbardella
>> Stafford, CT
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> List Name: Callers mailing list
>> List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
>>
>> _______________________________________________
> List Name: Callers mailing list
> List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
>
