Exactly, it's the hand that confuses me.
On Jul 6, 2016 1:40 PM, "Alexandra Deis-Lauby" <adeislauby(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> Left hand?
>
> On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:56 PM, Dale Wilson via Callers <
> callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> When I'm dancing the lady's role the only thing I consciously think about
>> is putting my right and on the Gent's shoulder as we start to swing. If I
>> get that right, everything else seems natural (to me).
>>
>> Dale
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 9:13 PM, tavi merrill via Callers <
>> callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Regarding swing position: With good frame, differences between the roles
>>> in giving weight are slight. But not all dancers are accustomed to good
>>> frame.
>>>
>>> I find a mirrored ballroom hold (both dancers have right hand on the
>>> other's shoulder blade, left hand on the other's shoulder) offers several
>>> advantages:
>>> - In general, it's a good hold for dancers to know as it saves
>>> space in crowded halls.
>>> - It facilitates spinning out from a swing, useful when dancers
>>> encounter "string of swings" choreography
>>> - It allows both dancers to experience both sides of good frame
>>> The one challenge is that dancers need to remember which side they are
>>> ending the swing on, as it removes "pointer hands" from the equation.
>>>
>>> This a bit of a tangent, but related to the chain: If we just called
>>> gents chains (by either hand! the courtesy turn for a left-hand chain isn't
>>> REALLY that complicated, folks) more often, role differences WRT chain
>>> would be a moot issue, and both roles would be better equipped to
>>> understand/offer/ask/decline flourishes. All for the effort of teaching one
>>> move well, one move that's out there in good choreography waiting to be
>>> used.
>>>
>>> Susan, I'm assuming this workshop is at a gender-free series, but geared
>>> to encourage attendance by dancers who aren't yet accustomed to gender-free
>>> dance? Having danced both roles widely and called a bit of gender-free, I'd
>>> be happy to chat by phone or IM. Feel free to ping me on facebook - Tavi
>>> Merrill
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7/5/2016 11:32 AM, Susan Pleck via Callers wrote:
>>>> > Hi folks,
>>>> >
>>>> > I'm to lead a workshop/extended intro lesson at a local dance this
>>>> > Saturday on gender-free dancing/dancing the "other" role/switching
>>>> > roles. Not having done this before, I'd appreciate any thoughts or
>>>> > advice about what this should include. For the gender-free aspect,
>>>> > I'm not sure there's much to discuss, really; ir'd be more just giving
>>>> > dancers a chance to practice responding to different terms. For
>>>> > dancing the other role, though, what points of emphasis do you think
>>>> > would be most useful? Two that come to mind are swing
>>>> > positioning/giving weight, and figures such as a chain where the
>>>> > actions of the two roles are different.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Callers mailing list
>>> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Turn Observation into Data. Turn Data into Information
>> <http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Information>. Turn Information into
>> Knowledge. Turn Knowledge into Wisdom. Turn Wisdom into Beauty. Turn Beauty
>> into Love .
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Callers mailing list
>> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>>
>>
>
Left hand?
On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:56 PM, Dale Wilson via Callers <
callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> When I'm dancing the lady's role the only thing I consciously think about
> is putting my right and on the Gent's shoulder as we start to swing. If I
> get that right, everything else seems natural (to me).
>
> Dale
>
> On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 9:13 PM, tavi merrill via Callers <
> callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> Regarding swing position: With good frame, differences between the roles
>> in giving weight are slight. But not all dancers are accustomed to good
>> frame.
>>
>> I find a mirrored ballroom hold (both dancers have right hand on the
>> other's shoulder blade, left hand on the other's shoulder) offers several
>> advantages:
>> - In general, it's a good hold for dancers to know as it saves
>> space in crowded halls.
>> - It facilitates spinning out from a swing, useful when dancers
>> encounter "string of swings" choreography
>> - It allows both dancers to experience both sides of good frame
>> The one challenge is that dancers need to remember which side they are
>> ending the swing on, as it removes "pointer hands" from the equation.
>>
>> This a bit of a tangent, but related to the chain: If we just called
>> gents chains (by either hand! the courtesy turn for a left-hand chain isn't
>> REALLY that complicated, folks) more often, role differences WRT chain
>> would be a moot issue, and both roles would be better equipped to
>> understand/offer/ask/decline flourishes. All for the effort of teaching one
>> move well, one move that's out there in good choreography waiting to be
>> used.
>>
>> Susan, I'm assuming this workshop is at a gender-free series, but geared
>> to encourage attendance by dancers who aren't yet accustomed to gender-free
>> dance? Having danced both roles widely and called a bit of gender-free, I'd
>> be happy to chat by phone or IM. Feel free to ping me on facebook - Tavi
>> Merrill
>>
>>
>>
>> On 7/5/2016 11:32 AM, Susan Pleck via Callers wrote:
>>> > Hi folks,
>>> >
>>> > I'm to lead a workshop/extended intro lesson at a local dance this
>>> > Saturday on gender-free dancing/dancing the "other" role/switching
>>> > roles. Not having done this before, I'd appreciate any thoughts or
>>> > advice about what this should include. For the gender-free aspect,
>>> > I'm not sure there's much to discuss, really; ir'd be more just giving
>>> > dancers a chance to practice responding to different terms. For
>>> > dancing the other role, though, what points of emphasis do you think
>>> > would be most useful? Two that come to mind are swing
>>> > positioning/giving weight, and figures such as a chain where the
>>> > actions of the two roles are different.
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Callers mailing list
>> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Turn Observation into Data. Turn Data into Information
> <http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Information>. Turn Information into
> Knowledge. Turn Knowledge into Wisdom. Turn Wisdom into Beauty. Turn Beauty
> into Love .
>
> _______________________________________________
> Callers mailing list
> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>
>
When I'm dancing the lady's role the only thing I consciously think about
is putting my right and on the Gent's shoulder as we start to swing. If I
get that right, everything else seems natural (to me).
Dale
On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 9:13 PM, tavi merrill via Callers <
callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> Regarding swing position: With good frame, differences between the roles
> in giving weight are slight. But not all dancers are accustomed to good
> frame.
>
> I find a mirrored ballroom hold (both dancers have right hand on the
> other's shoulder blade, left hand on the other's shoulder) offers several
> advantages:
> - In general, it's a good hold for dancers to know as it saves
> space in crowded halls.
> - It facilitates spinning out from a swing, useful when dancers
> encounter "string of swings" choreography
> - It allows both dancers to experience both sides of good frame
> The one challenge is that dancers need to remember which side they are
> ending the swing on, as it removes "pointer hands" from the equation.
>
> This a bit of a tangent, but related to the chain: If we just called gents
> chains (by either hand! the courtesy turn for a left-hand chain isn't
> REALLY that complicated, folks) more often, role differences WRT chain
> would be a moot issue, and both roles would be better equipped to
> understand/offer/ask/decline flourishes. All for the effort of teaching one
> move well, one move that's out there in good choreography waiting to be
> used.
>
> Susan, I'm assuming this workshop is at a gender-free series, but geared
> to encourage attendance by dancers who aren't yet accustomed to gender-free
> dance? Having danced both roles widely and called a bit of gender-free, I'd
> be happy to chat by phone or IM. Feel free to ping me on facebook - Tavi
> Merrill
>
>
>
> On 7/5/2016 11:32 AM, Susan Pleck via Callers wrote:
>> > Hi folks,
>> >
>> > I'm to lead a workshop/extended intro lesson at a local dance this
>> > Saturday on gender-free dancing/dancing the "other" role/switching
>> > roles. Not having done this before, I'd appreciate any thoughts or
>> > advice about what this should include. For the gender-free aspect,
>> > I'm not sure there's much to discuss, really; ir'd be more just giving
>> > dancers a chance to practice responding to different terms. For
>> > dancing the other role, though, what points of emphasis do you think
>> > would be most useful? Two that come to mind are swing
>> > positioning/giving weight, and figures such as a chain where the
>> > actions of the two roles are different.
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Callers mailing list
> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>
>
--
Turn Observation into Data. Turn Data into Information
<http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Information>. Turn Information into
Knowledge. Turn Knowledge into Wisdom. Turn Wisdom into Beauty. Turn Beauty
into Love .
Regarding swing position: With good frame, differences between the roles in
giving weight are slight. But not all dancers are accustomed to good frame.
I find a mirrored ballroom hold (both dancers have right hand on the
other's shoulder blade, left hand on the other's shoulder) offers several
advantages:
- In general, it's a good hold for dancers to know as it saves space
in crowded halls.
- It facilitates spinning out from a swing, useful when dancers
encounter "string of swings" choreography
- It allows both dancers to experience both sides of good frame
The one challenge is that dancers need to remember which side they are
ending the swing on, as it removes "pointer hands" from the equation.
This a bit of a tangent, but related to the chain: If we just called gents
chains (by either hand! the courtesy turn for a left-hand chain isn't
REALLY that complicated, folks) more often, role differences WRT chain
would be a moot issue, and both roles would be better equipped to
understand/offer/ask/decline flourishes. All for the effort of teaching one
move well, one move that's out there in good choreography waiting to be
used.
Susan, I'm assuming this workshop is at a gender-free series, but geared to
encourage attendance by dancers who aren't yet accustomed to gender-free
dance? Having danced both roles widely and called a bit of gender-free, I'd
be happy to chat by phone or IM. Feel free to ping me on facebook - Tavi
Merrill
On 7/5/2016 11:32 AM, Susan Pleck via Callers wrote:
> > Hi folks,
> >
> > I'm to lead a workshop/extended intro lesson at a local dance this
> > Saturday on gender-free dancing/dancing the "other" role/switching
> > roles. Not having done this before, I'd appreciate any thoughts or
> > advice about what this should include. For the gender-free aspect,
> > I'm not sure there's much to discuss, really; ir'd be more just giving
> > dancers a chance to practice responding to different terms. For
> > dancing the other role, though, what points of emphasis do you think
> > would be most useful? Two that come to mind are swing
> > positioning/giving weight, and figures such as a chain where the
> > actions of the two roles are different.
>
>
Everything Maia said!
Also, if you find you are teaching to people who are doing well with both
roles, and want to learn when they can switch within a dance other than in
a swing, the easiest places are in Long lines if one is across from your
partner, (do like a hole-in-the wall gypsy), in Long lines, if one is next
to your partner (add a roll away) and then adding or subtracting a 1/2 turn
in an allemande or do si do w/ partner.
I would also remind dancers that all flourishes are offers and should feel
like offers, and dancers should talk about flourishes with their partner
and whether or not they would like any.
Have fun!
A
On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 5:06 PM, Maia McCormick via Callers <
callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> I find that a lot of people who have danced mostly the gent's role, when
> they start dancing the lady's role, think that when they swing, they're
> supposed to go backwards or sorta sideways... I mean, hell, a lot of people
> think that's how a lady swings when they first start dancing that role!
> But, I emphasize that you're both walking (or buzz-stepping) *forward*,
> roughly aiming at a point over your partner's shoulder. In fact, *the
> footwork for a swing for both roles is exactly the same!!!* A good way to
> emphasize this might be to have participants do a gender-neutral swing
> (e.g. right hand on shoulder blade, left hand clasped with partner above
> the heads) and then change the hand position into your classic ballroom
> swing (perhaps even trying out ballroom position with person A leading,
> then with person B leading) and noting how the footwork stays the same.
>
> Ending the swing on the opposite side also takes some getting used to.
> Instead of emphasizing which role ends where ("gent ends on the left... oh
> god, am I the gent??"), I find it useful to talk about ending the swing
> with the "pointy end" pointing in the direction you want to be facing, and
> releasing from there--works for both roles, so no scrambling to remember
> what role you're dancing and what side you're supposed to end up on.
>
> You might lean towards selecting dances where tricky gendered stuff (e.g.
> the courtesy turn, which many people will be learning for the first time in
> their new role) happens with a neighbor. If it happens that you and your
> partner are both confused about how to do a courtesy turn in your new role
> and the only courtesy turns happen with your partner, you're not going to
> get any help.
>
> Lastly (and this is something that I urge allllll you folks on the
> listserv to do, even if you're not calling specifically gender-neutral
> dances): use gender-neutral language to describe the roles! I find this
> every effective for breaking down role gender expectations, even if the
> role names themselves are gendered. So rather than "gents, take that
> neighbor lady and scoop her around in a courtesy turn", say, "scoop *them* around
> in a courtesy turn".
>
> Good luck! Let us know how it goes, and what did or didn't work well!
>
> Cheers,
> Maia
>
> On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 4:29 PM, Chris Page via Callers <
> callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> One subtle thing that's different is progression instincts -- typically
>> men's
>> role progress on the left, women's on the right. (Like with a final B2
>> of circle left 3/4, pass through).
>>
>>
>> The few times I've had everyone do a gender swap, I've gone with the
>> dance "Bicoastal Contra" by Pete Campbell.
>>
>>
>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/pipermail/callers-sharedweight.net/2008-April…
>>
>> Two swings, one courtesy turn, a men's allemande, fairly simple
>> choreography -- and neither swing need end with the correct person on
>> the right.
>>
>> -Chris Page
>> San Diego, CA
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 11:32 AM, Susan Pleck via Callers
>> <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>> > Hi folks,
>> >
>> > I'm to lead a workshop/extended intro lesson at a local dance this
>> Saturday
>> > on gender-free dancing/dancing the "other" role/switching roles. Not
>> having
>> > done this before, I'd appreciate any thoughts or advice about what this
>> > should include. For the gender-free aspect, I'm not sure there's much
>> to
>> > discuss, really; ir'd be more just giving dancers a chance to practice
>> > responding to different terms. For dancing the other role, though, what
>> > points of emphasis do you think would be most useful? Two that come to
>> mind
>> > are swing positioning/giving weight, and figures such as a chain where
>> the
>> > actions of the two roles are different.
>> >
>> > thank you!
>> > Susan Pleck
>> > Oakland, CA
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Callers mailing list
>> > Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> Callers mailing list
>> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Callers mailing list
> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>
>
Hi folks,
I'm to lead a workshop/extended intro lesson at a local dance this Saturday on gender-free dancing/dancing the "other" role/switching roles. Not having done this before, I'd appreciate any thoughts or advice about what this should include. For the gender-free aspect, I'm not sure there's much to discuss, really; ir'd be more just giving dancers a chance to practice responding to different terms. For dancing the other role, though, what points of emphasis do you think would be most useful? Two that come to mind are swing positioning/giving weight, and figures such as a chain where the actions of the two roles are different.
thank you!Susan PleckOakland, CA
I find that a lot of people who have danced mostly the gent's role, when
they start dancing the lady's role, think that when they swing, they're
supposed to go backwards or sorta sideways... I mean, hell, a lot of people
think that's how a lady swings when they first start dancing that role!
But, I emphasize that you're both walking (or buzz-stepping) *forward*,
roughly aiming at a point over your partner's shoulder. In fact, *the
footwork for a swing for both roles is exactly the same!!!* A good way to
emphasize this might be to have participants do a gender-neutral swing
(e.g. right hand on shoulder blade, left hand clasped with partner above
the heads) and then change the hand position into your classic ballroom
swing (perhaps even trying out ballroom position with person A leading,
then with person B leading) and noting how the footwork stays the same.
Ending the swing on the opposite side also takes some getting used to.
Instead of emphasizing which role ends where ("gent ends on the left... oh
god, am I the gent??"), I find it useful to talk about ending the swing
with the "pointy end" pointing in the direction you want to be facing, and
releasing from there--works for both roles, so no scrambling to remember
what role you're dancing and what side you're supposed to end up on.
You might lean towards selecting dances where tricky gendered stuff (e.g.
the courtesy turn, which many people will be learning for the first time in
their new role) happens with a neighbor. If it happens that you and your
partner are both confused about how to do a courtesy turn in your new role
and the only courtesy turns happen with your partner, you're not going to
get any help.
Lastly (and this is something that I urge allllll you folks on the listserv
to do, even if you're not calling specifically gender-neutral dances): use
gender-neutral language to describe the roles! I find this every effective
for breaking down role gender expectations, even if the role names
themselves are gendered. So rather than "gents, take that neighbor lady and
scoop her around in a courtesy turn", say, "scoop *them* around in a
courtesy turn".
Good luck! Let us know how it goes, and what did or didn't work well!
Cheers,
Maia
On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 4:29 PM, Chris Page via Callers <
callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> One subtle thing that's different is progression instincts -- typically
> men's
> role progress on the left, women's on the right. (Like with a final B2
> of circle left 3/4, pass through).
>
>
> The few times I've had everyone do a gender swap, I've gone with the
> dance "Bicoastal Contra" by Pete Campbell.
>
>
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/pipermail/callers-sharedweight.net/2008-April…
>
> Two swings, one courtesy turn, a men's allemande, fairly simple
> choreography -- and neither swing need end with the correct person on
> the right.
>
> -Chris Page
> San Diego, CA
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 11:32 AM, Susan Pleck via Callers
> <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> > Hi folks,
> >
> > I'm to lead a workshop/extended intro lesson at a local dance this
> Saturday
> > on gender-free dancing/dancing the "other" role/switching roles. Not
> having
> > done this before, I'd appreciate any thoughts or advice about what this
> > should include. For the gender-free aspect, I'm not sure there's much to
> > discuss, really; ir'd be more just giving dancers a chance to practice
> > responding to different terms. For dancing the other role, though, what
> > points of emphasis do you think would be most useful? Two that come to
> mind
> > are swing positioning/giving weight, and figures such as a chain where
> the
> > actions of the two roles are different.
> >
> > thank you!
> > Susan Pleck
> > Oakland, CA
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Callers mailing list
> > Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Callers mailing list
> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>
Of course contra dancers like swinging, so you could try incorporating this version into a contra dance:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfqC8uVfCUo
In “Cowboy Dances” (1939) there was also a version with half a two-hand turn (but they called it a swing!) every time you met someone.
Happy dancing,
John
John Sweeney, Dancer, England john(a)modernjive.com 01233 625 362 http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent
American Dance and Music Week at Pinewoods still has space to you to join us. It's a wonderful program in the most beautiful setting. Larry Edelman, caller, musician and teacher extraordinaire, will be teaching his very popular Square Dance Callers class. If you are a caller who has ever considered adding squares to your repertoire, you don't want to miss the opportunity to learn from Larry. Even callers with years of experience will benefit from Larry's wisdom.
The rest of the program is packed with great calling and teaching. Check it all out at
http://www.cdss.org/programs/dance-music-song-camps/camp-weeks/american
Hope to see you there!
Sue
If you're planning on coming to the Caller's Delight English/American mix
in VT tomorrow, you are MORE than welcome to stay after and eat/ talk shop.
If the weather is good, the Top Of The Hill Grill on the north end of
Brattlebore is the most likely candidate; if it's raining (please no..)
then Chinese might work better - we can decide just after the last waltz.
(Details are on the Dance Gypsy/Monadnock Folklore sites)
Cheers,
Amy
802-222-7598