Import1 September 2015

import1@lists2.sharedweight.net

1 participants
86 discussions

by Michael Fuerst via Callers

Chris: The indicates that someone in 2008 (Dave Eisenstadter) other than the composer (Nils Fredland) not call this dance written in 2003.Everyone has become more aware since then.One wonders if Nils still calls this dance Michael Fuerst 802 N Broadway Urbana IL 61801 217 239 5844 On Wednesday, September 9, 2015 4:38 PM, Chris Page <chriscpage(a)gmail.com> wrote: Sigh. See "Head of the Bed", written by Nils Fredland. http://www.library.unh.edu/special/forms/rpdlw/syllabus2008.pdf#page=49b -Chris Page San Diego On Wed, Sep 9, 2015 at 2:27 PM, Michael Fuerst via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: David: Really, would you ever call a dance with a shadow swing? None of our most respected caller (those who are invited as the featured caller at various weekends) never (or darned close to never).I don't ever recall attending a weekend when the featured caller used a shadow swing. Michael Fuerst 802 N Broadway Urbana IL 61801 217 239 5844

8 years, 7 months

[Callers] Rollaway sans sashay?

by Maia McCormick via Callers

Recently there was some discussion of the difference between a "rollaway with a half-sashay" and a plain ol' rollaway. Jim Saxe presented the dance Roll Away <http://contradances.blogspot.com/2012/03/roll-away.html> as an example of a contra with a rollaway without a half-sashay. Can anyone else name/post choreography for any CONTRAS (or 4-face-4s, I suppose... not looking for squares at the moment, though) that include a rollaway *without* a half-sashay? Cheers, Maia

8 years, 7 months

Re: [Callers] Problem dancers / Crying Wolf

by Yoyo Zhou via Callers

Taking you at face value: if you have a systemic problem, you need a policy. If you have a problem with one person, you need to come to terms with that person. I'm not sure if it's just the board, or if other dancers also have issues with her. But if you seek mediation, take notes on your interactions so you have evidence to back yourself up. Now, I think the last thing you need is a policy requiring victims to speak up. It's counterproductive to making a safe dance space. (Let's discuss that on the other thread.) Let's say I'm new to your dance and I have a bad experience with someone. What do I do? I might complain about it to my friends who convinced me to come. I might just avoid that person. I might just go home dissatisfied. One of the last things I might do is complain to the management (and I might view that woman as an extension thereof), because who knows if they'll just shrug it off and not take me seriously? Also, you wrote, "it seems to me that she's committing violence." No, I disagree. This totally cheapens the meaning of "violence". What words do you use for when punches are actually thrown? (It's happened at a dance here.) Yoyo Zhou On Wed, Sep 9, 2015 at 7:42 AM, Ron Blechner via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > Maybe. Maybe not. My point was that we should be very, very careful about > making a definitive statement about something being "just an accusation", > especially when in your example, there was a second problem - even if it was > a year earlier. > > On Sep 9, 2015 10:39 AM, "Lindsay Morris via Callers" > <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: >> >> Appreciate that. Don't think the "where there's smoke there's fire" issue >> applies here, though. It would if there were several different women >> complaining about one man... >> >> -------------------- >> Lindsay Morris >> CEO, TSMworks >> Tel. 1-859-539-9900 >> lindsay(a)tsmworks.com >> >> On Wed, Sep 9, 2015 at 10:34 AM, Ron Blechner <contraron(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Lindsay, >>> >>> I realize this is a tricky topic, so apologies in advance if my brevity >>> comes off as bruskness. >>> >>> These two suggestions work for Amherst Contra. >>> >>> As a proxy complaint comes in, a board member would seek out the source. >>> Anonymous complaints are permitted, and a high level of ensuring that we ask >>> open-ended questions, and not leading questions. >>> >>> We also wear board member buttons at dances and make regular >>> announcements about us being available for any reason. Usually 4-7 members >>> of our board attend any dance. >>> >>> You might speak privately to Will Loving, our lead organizer, if you're >>> interested in more specifics. >>> >>> I would also caution about making such definitive statements as "just an >>> accusation". In my experience, where there's smoke, there's fire. For every >>> accusation, there's five people who are too uncomfortable to speak up. >>> >>> That said, I have seen the success of proactive addressing of issues. The >>> biggest benefit is simple: >>> >>> Address it early when it's small, and not a huge deal. Maybe it's a >>> simple misunderstanding. Maybe the person needed a clear boundary drawn. But >>> wait until there's a pile of complaints, and you've already lost dancers and >>> the resolution will need to be more severe for the offender. >>> >>> Best regards, >>> Ron Blechner >>> >>> On Sep 9, 2015 10:08 AM, "Lindsay Morris via Callers" >>> <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: >>>> >>>> Chris Weiler's Positive Solutions on dealing with problem dancers, and >>>> the CDU Policy are thoughtful and useful documents. >>>> >>>> We have a different problem here. >>>> >>>> One woman often complains to board members about men she sees as >>>> creepers or sexual predators. She reports their misbehavior on behalf of >>>> their victims. The victims don't initiate these reports.* >>>> >>>> Many others don't see these men as creepy or inappropriate. Recently >>>> one of the "victims" clarified that her discomfort with the man was a year >>>> ago and she'd long ago dealt with it to her satisfaction. The man in >>>> question had heard only rumors that some nameless woman was unhappy about >>>> some nameless thing he'd done. >>>> >>>> This woman also publicly asked that young women who feel harassed should >>>> talk to her about it. We feel that's the Board's job, not hers. >>>> >>>> It seems that this woman is fishing for - or even inventing - >>>> "naughty-dancer" problems. >>>> >>>> When a married man gets accused of being a sexual predator, his wife has >>>> to wonder if it's true. This adds to any marital tensions they may already >>>> have. So, while this woman is not actually punching anybody in the face, it >>>> seems to me that she's committing violence. >>>> >>>> How should we handle this? >>>> >>>> I think we need a "No proxy complaints" policy - i.e., the victim has to >>>> speak up (and then our process will usually fix simple miscommunication >>>> issues). >>>> We need to clearly identify board members, so genuine victims know who >>>> to talk to. >>>> >>>> But does anybody have other ideas about preventing one person's issues >>>> from poisoning the atmosphere of a mostly friendly dance? >>>> >>>> ____ >>>> * I know, victims often have a hard time stepping up and complaining, so >>>> advocacy may be a good thing. But that's a different discussion. In these >>>> situations, there's no victim; there's no predator; there's just an >>>> accusation with little to back it up. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Callers mailing list >>>> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >>>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net >>>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Callers mailing list >> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net >> > > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net >

8 years, 7 months

[Callers] Solutions for callers for dealing with problem dancers

by Perry Shafran via Callers

OK, I think we have talked at each other for awhile now, arguing whether or not harassment is rampant at our dances. I think it would be nice if we could now discuss solutions we as CALLERS (remember, this is a callers' list, not an organizers' list) can and should do with respect to this. If anyone has any ideas, some positive solutions, I am open and receptive to hearing them. Perry

8 years, 7 months

[Callers] counterclockwise momentum?

by Lindsey Dono via Callers

Hi Callers, There are a number of dances that have significant clockwise momentum; I try to label such dances so I don't call them back to back. However, I'd like to identify a collection of dances with the *least* clockwise movement (beyond swinging in the other direction). Which moves are CCW? I realize that this depends somewhat on how the move is danced. Have you IDed any dances as particularly good to call after a very clockwise one? Thanks!Lindsey

8 years, 7 months

[Callers] Fwd: Fw: Shadow Swing Disclaimers?

by Andrea Nettleton via Callers

> > Maia, > Did we give you what you needed? If so, could you let us know and put a stop to the thread? Callers are now more busy calling one another out for getting off topic or being inappropriate than generating new answers. > Summary of suggestions, as best I remember: > 1) don't call the dance > 2) call the dance with the disclaimer farther in advance than the teach. > 3) call the dance with a substitute choreography, not mentioning the possibility of a swing. > 4) call the dance and at that place in the dance say: with your shadow either swing or (substitute move) and end x-ly (probably traded places either facing across or with one person facing across ready to do the next move (if the substitute was an allemande 1.5)). > > While some advocated for disclaimers, many felt it is bad for the community to imply from the mic that people might be uncivil. Others objected that some might take the disclaimer as license to avoid dancers for any number of reasons, some being petty prejudices rather than a sense of real danger. Overall there were more voices against disclaimer and for offering an alternative movement should you feel this was the right dance for the moment. > > Correct me if I'm wrong. Could we leave this alone unless someone has a truly new idea for Maia? > > Thanks, > Andrea > > Sent from my iOnlypretendtomultitask > >>> On Sep 9, 2015, at 3:08 PM, Aahz Maruch via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: >>> >>>> On Tue, Sep 08, 2015, Michael Fuerst via Callers wrote: >>>>> On Tuesday, September 8, 2015 1:53 PM, Luke Donforth <luke.donev(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> On Tue, Sep 8, 2015 at 2:43 PM, Michael Fuerst via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Asking about how to appropriately do dances with shadow swings seems >>>>> like asking how men can appropriately grope women during a dance. >>>> >>>> I again think your attempt to inject levity into a conversation have >>>> come across as crass and inappropriate. Asking about shadow swings >>>> on a list for calling is pertinent; joking about men groping women >>>> dancers isn't. >>> >>> Your assessment is inaccurate. This is not a matter where levity is >>> acceptable. Creating a situation which could force someone into close, >>> almost intimate proximity with a person perceived as emotionally or >>> physically threatening is inappropriate. A lesser problem is that one >>> can get a shadow who one considers personable, but very unpleasant >>> for swinging (for example, due to either height difference, or a body >>> position or weight distribution which unnecessarily strains one's own >>> body). >> >> Well, I share Luke's assessment. The phrasing you used to compare shadow >> swings and groping implies either levity or a disregard of the difference >> between groping and a shadow swing. Regardless of the seriousness with >> which you view "forcing" a shadow swing, it is clear that many other >> people disagree, and your comparison is not appropriate, especially given >> Maia's original request to AVOID any discussion of whether shadow swings >> are appropriate. >> -- >> Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6 http://rule6.info/ >> <*> <*> <*> >> Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html >> _______________________________________________ >> Callers mailing list >> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net

8 years, 7 months

Re: [Callers] shadow swings

by April Blum via Callers

I love Robert Cromartie's "Illegal in Most States" and whenever I call it at least one person comes up afterwards to say it was a wonderful dance. April Blum On Sep 9, 2015 6:34 PM, Chris Page via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > > And yet, they're done. I know Carol Ormand writes and calls them. This Saturday at the contra weekend I attended, a national caller called "Head of the Bed." > > Yes, we've heard your opinion. Avoiding shadow swings be perfect for you, but it may not be for others. And I'd like to hear from the others, rather than having you (or someone else) try and shut down the conversation by repeatedly making absolute statements. > > There is more than one correct point of view. > > (Personally I almost never** use shadow swings, so I don't have much to contribute to this particular conversation. But I enjoy listening to others.) > > > -Chris Page > San Diego > > ** And yet I'm guilty of having written one, and called it at NEFFA. I've got my own hypocrisy. > > > > On Wed, Sep 9, 2015 at 3:02 PM, Michael Fuerst <mjerryfuerst(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> Chris: The indicates that someone in 2008 (Dave Eisenstadter) other than the composer (Nils Fredland) not call this dance written in 2003. >> Everyone has become more aware since then. >> One wonders if Nils still calls this dance >> >> Michael Fuerst 802 N Broadway Urbana IL 61801 217 239 5844 >> >> >> >> On Wednesday, September 9, 2015 4:38 PM, Chris Page <chriscpage(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> Sigh. See "Head of the Bed", written by Nils Fredland. >> >> http://www.library.unh.edu/special/forms/rpdlw/syllabus2008.pdf#page=49b >> >> -Chris Page >> San Diego >> >

8 years, 7 months

Re: [Callers] Shadow Swing Disclaimers?

by Michael Fuerst via Callers

The substitution examples you gave are rarely critical to a dance's flow. Swings are more likely to be. If a dance written with a shadow swing flows well with something else, the the dance should always be called with the something else. Michael Fuerst 802 N Broadway Urbana IL 61801 217 239 5844

8 years, 7 months

Re: [Callers] Shadow Swing Disclaimers?

by Richard Fischer via Callers

Here's a suggestion I don't think I've seen in this discussion. If you want to call a dance with a shadow swing, how about save it for time when you can have several shorter sets, and remind couples they can join other sets when they reach the top or the bottom, to get an opportunity to dance with a bigger variety of people. (And of course remind dancers they may have the surprise of a new shadow.) Richard On Sep 8, 2015, at 11:06 AM, Maia McCormick via Callers wrote: > Hey all, > > First, a disclaimer: Some people on this listserv thing shadow swings are problematic. Some don't see any issue with them. This is NOT the conversation I want to have in this thread; I ask that you respond to the question I'm asking and do not debate my premise--at least not in this particular thread. This should help keep this thread on track and hopefully reduce excess noise and go-nowhere discussions on this listserv. Thanks! > > Anyway, the actual question I wanted to ask (whew!)-- > > There do exist some really fabulous shadow-swing dances that I would love to be able to call, as long as I could do so without putting anyone in an uncomfortable position. Do folks have ideas for ways to mitigate the potential harms of shadow swing dances? I was considering, at the beginning of the dance, having dancers identify their shadow and mentioning, "this will be a shadow swing dance, so if you need to make any changes, do so now" (or something like that)--haven't gotten the wording down-pat, but the idea is giving dancers advance warning of a shadow swing so they can move (thereby changing their shadow) if they need to. Any thoughts on this method? Suggestions of others? > > Cheers. > Maia > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net

8 years, 7 months

Re: [Callers] shadow swings

by Michael Fuerst via Callers

David: Really, would you ever call a dance with a shadow swing? None of our most respected caller (those who are invited as the featured caller at various weekends) never (or darned close to never).I don't ever recall attending a weekend when the featured caller used a shadow swing. Michael Fuerst 802 N Broadway Urbana IL 61801 217 239 5844 On Wednesday, September 9, 2015 4:18 PM, Dave Merrill via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: My only observation to add to the shadow swing melee is that while not completely closed to them, i'm cognizant of the several reasons they are a less than optimal choice. Given these drawbacks of the figure, i would not use a shadow swing in a situation with very long sets. If the choreography of the dance is so awesome i feel a need to use it, and the end effects aren't prohibitive, i'd consider running it in a situation with short sets (much as i'd use for a 1s active dance). Why? Because if anyone feels the need to escape their shadow, they can get to an end of the set and either jump out or rumble into another set sooner. I think this offers dancers the best chance to fix a potential issue without singling anyone out or creating a dynamic on the floor more awkward than the choice of a shadow swing dance (albeit an exceptional one!) already did. _______________________________________________ Callers mailing list Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net

8 years, 7 months

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Import1 September 2015