Seems to me Carol Ormand has one where you start the dance by putting
your Partner in the Shadows position.
I may be wrong about that.
Would that solve your problem?
Jane Ewing
Grant, AL
An equally great dance without a shadow swing that can replace any dance with a shadow swing.What dance(s) with a shadow swing do feel so compelled to call ? Michael Fuerst 802 N Broadway Urbana IL 61801 217 239 5844
On Tuesday, September 8, 2015 10:07 AM, Maia McCormick via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Hey all,
First, a disclaimer: Some people on this listserv thing shadow swings are problematic. Some don't see any issue with them. This is NOT the conversation I want to have in this thread; I ask that you respond to the question I'm asking and do not debate my premise--at least not in this particular thread. This should help keep this thread on track and hopefully reduce excess noise and go-nowhere discussions on this listserv. Thanks!
Anyway, the actual question I wanted to ask (whew!)--
There do exist some really fabulous shadow-swing dances that I would love to be able to call, as long as I could do so without putting anyone in an uncomfortable position. Do folks have ideas for ways to mitigate the potential harms of shadow swing dances? I was considering, at the beginning of the dance, having dancers identify their shadow and mentioning, "this will be a shadow swing dance, so if you need to make any changes, do so now" (or something like that)--haven't gotten the wording down-pat, but the idea is giving dancers advance warning of a shadow swing so they can move (thereby changing their shadow) if they need to. Any thoughts on this method? Suggestions of others?
Cheers.Maia
_______________________________________________
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Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
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An equally great dance without a shadow swing exists that can replace any dance with a shadow swing.What dance(s) with a shadow swing do you feel so compelled to call ? Michael Fuerst 802 N Broadway Urbana IL 61801 217 239 5844
On Tuesday, September 8, 2015 10:07 AM, Maia McCormick via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Hey all,
First, a disclaimer: Some people on this listserv thing shadow swings are problematic. Some don't see any issue with them. This is NOT the conversation I want to have in this thread; I ask that you respond to the question I'm asking and do not debate my premise--at least not in this particular thread. This should help keep this thread on track and hopefully reduce excess noise and go-nowhere discussions on this listserv. Thanks!
Anyway, the actual question I wanted to ask (whew!)--
There do exist some really fabulous shadow-swing dances that I would love to be able to call, as long as I could do so without putting anyone in an uncomfortable position. Do folks have ideas for ways to mitigate the potential harms of shadow swing dances? I was considering, at the beginning of the dance, having dancers identify their shadow and mentioning, "this will be a shadow swing dance, so if you need to make any changes, do so now" (or something like that)--haven't gotten the wording down-pat, but the idea is giving dancers advance warning of a shadow swing so they can move (thereby changing their shadow) if they need to. Any thoughts on this method? Suggestions of others?
Cheers.Maia
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
Luke,
The "tripletesque" suggest is a neat one... I had been pondering how a
Shadow Swing dance is similar to many four-face-fours or squares. In those
cases dancers more carefully choose who is in their formation. Your idea to
just have shorter lines that are chosen both gives the dancers the
opportunity to choose neighbors (and thus, shadow) while also putting a
little boundary around the dance as "special", so a caller doesn't lose
confidence of some bristled dancers.
Ron
On Sep 8, 2015 1:30 PM, "Luke Donforth via Callers" <
callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> Maia,
>
> Let me see if I'm correctly reading your goals:
> You want to call dances with shadow swings
> You want to minimize discomfort
>
> To do both of those, I think an announcement after folks have lined up is
> worse than an announcement earlier. If someone is uncomfortable with the
> idea of swinging a shadow, how comfortable would they be leaving a line
> after you've made the announcement and highlighting for everyone in the
> room that there's a problematic interaction? There's no way to
> surreptitiously drop out; folks have to take new hands four and identify
> new shadows. I think making the announcement after folks have lined up just
> puts public pressure on your dancers.
>
> You can announce it ahead of time, either at the end of the previous
> dance; or even during the walkthrough of the previous dance. I know some
> callers do this for mixers: "Alright, thanks everyone for lining up and
> taking hands four. Just so you know, the dance after this will be a mixer.
> You'll keep your partner for this dance, but the one after don't expect to
> stay with your sweetheart." etc. Andrea raises a good point that it's hard
> to know where the shadow would be when you line up (or if someone lines up
> after you).
>
> Other options that come to mind:
>
> - Call these dances that are dear to you only in instances where it's
> unlikely to be an issue. I.e. small dance communities where you know
> everyone and know it'll be fine; or very large events (dance weekends, etc)
> where it's much less likely for you to run into someone you have a bad
> interaction with. If you had a festival session called "Shadow Dances";
> then anybody showing up is probably going to expect that they'll swing the
> occasional shadow.
> - As Ron suggested, you can modify the dance and say "and this move
> can be a swing". Might defeat why you're trying to call the dance though.
> - Make it triplet-esque; in that rather than full long lines, you
> break folks into small groups (10 dancers, etc) and run the dance for a
> short time. If there's a shadow, partner, and neighbor swing, chances are
> you don't want to run the dance super long anyway. You announce "find a
> partner and about 4 other couples for a special dance" and folks can self
> select a little more. Smaller groups also let more experienced dancers
> goof/chaos/play more with repetitive dances without throwing off large
> portions of the hall (I consider a dance with shadow & partner swing, with
> or without a neighbor swing; to have a high possibility of repetitiveness).
>
> Hope that helps get you thinking about other options too. Have fun, and
> remember we're there for the dancers to have a good time.
> Luke
>
> On Tue, Sep 8, 2015 at 11:06 AM, Maia McCormick via Callers <
> callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> Hey all,
>>
>> First, a disclaimer: Some people on this listserv thing shadow swings are
>> problematic. Some don't see any issue with them. This is NOT the
>> conversation I want to have in this thread; *I ask that you respond to
>> the question I'm asking and do not debate my premise--at least not in this
>> particular thread. *This should help keep this thread on track and
>> hopefully reduce excess noise and go-nowhere discussions on this listserv.
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Anyway, the actual question I wanted to ask (whew!)--
>>
>> There do exist some really fabulous shadow-swing dances that I would love
>> to be able to call, as long as I could do so without putting anyone in an
>> uncomfortable position. Do folks have ideas for ways to mitigate the
>> potential harms of shadow swing dances? I was considering, at the beginning
>> of the dance, having dancers identify their shadow and mentioning, "this
>> will be a shadow swing dance, so if you need to make any changes, do so
>> now" (or something like that)--haven't gotten the wording down-pat, but the
>> idea is giving dancers advance warning of a shadow swing so they can move
>> (thereby changing their shadow) if they need to. Any thoughts on this
>> method? Suggestions of others?
>>
>> Cheers.
>> Maia
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Callers mailing list
>> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Luke Donforth
> Luke.Donforth(a)gmail.com <Luke.Donev(a)gmail.com>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Callers mailing list
> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>
>
Maia,
Let me see if I'm correctly reading your goals:
You want to call dances with shadow swings
You want to minimize discomfort
To do both of those, I think an announcement after folks have lined up is
worse than an announcement earlier. If someone is uncomfortable with the
idea of swinging a shadow, how comfortable would they be leaving a line
after you've made the announcement and highlighting for everyone in the
room that there's a problematic interaction? There's no way to
surreptitiously drop out; folks have to take new hands four and identify
new shadows. I think making the announcement after folks have lined up just
puts public pressure on your dancers.
You can announce it ahead of time, either at the end of the previous dance;
or even during the walkthrough of the previous dance. I know some callers
do this for mixers: "Alright, thanks everyone for lining up and taking
hands four. Just so you know, the dance after this will be a mixer. You'll
keep your partner for this dance, but the one after don't expect to stay
with your sweetheart." etc. Andrea raises a good point that it's hard to
know where the shadow would be when you line up (or if someone lines up
after you).
Other options that come to mind:
- Call these dances that are dear to you only in instances where it's
unlikely to be an issue. I.e. small dance communities where you know
everyone and know it'll be fine; or very large events (dance weekends, etc)
where it's much less likely for you to run into someone you have a bad
interaction with. If you had a festival session called "Shadow Dances";
then anybody showing up is probably going to expect that they'll swing the
occasional shadow.
- As Ron suggested, you can modify the dance and say "and this move can
be a swing". Might defeat why you're trying to call the dance though.
- Make it triplet-esque; in that rather than full long lines, you break
folks into small groups (10 dancers, etc) and run the dance for a short
time. If there's a shadow, partner, and neighbor swing, chances are you
don't want to run the dance super long anyway. You announce "find a partner
and about 4 other couples for a special dance" and folks can self select a
little more. Smaller groups also let more experienced dancers
goof/chaos/play more with repetitive dances without throwing off large
portions of the hall (I consider a dance with shadow & partner swing, with
or without a neighbor swing; to have a high possibility of repetitiveness).
Hope that helps get you thinking about other options too. Have fun, and
remember we're there for the dancers to have a good time.
Luke
On Tue, Sep 8, 2015 at 11:06 AM, Maia McCormick via Callers <
callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> Hey all,
>
> First, a disclaimer: Some people on this listserv thing shadow swings are
> problematic. Some don't see any issue with them. This is NOT the
> conversation I want to have in this thread; *I ask that you respond to
> the question I'm asking and do not debate my premise--at least not in this
> particular thread. *This should help keep this thread on track and
> hopefully reduce excess noise and go-nowhere discussions on this listserv.
> Thanks!
>
> Anyway, the actual question I wanted to ask (whew!)--
>
> There do exist some really fabulous shadow-swing dances that I would love
> to be able to call, as long as I could do so without putting anyone in an
> uncomfortable position. Do folks have ideas for ways to mitigate the
> potential harms of shadow swing dances? I was considering, at the beginning
> of the dance, having dancers identify their shadow and mentioning, "this
> will be a shadow swing dance, so if you need to make any changes, do so
> now" (or something like that)--haven't gotten the wording down-pat, but the
> idea is giving dancers advance warning of a shadow swing so they can move
> (thereby changing their shadow) if they need to. Any thoughts on this
> method? Suggestions of others?
>
> Cheers.
> Maia
>
> _______________________________________________
> Callers mailing list
> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>
>
--
Luke Donforth
Luke.Donforth(a)gmail.com <Luke.Donev(a)gmail.com>
I suspect that if you try to announce after the previous dance, many people still will be unable to visualize who their shadow is. I also dislike the idea that from the mic, we might suggest that unpleasantness could result from the dance. I'm with Ron on this. If the dance is really that wonderful, teach it with the swing while saying what other move people can do if they choose that will have the same result (which will depend on what comes next, but allemande 1.5 covers a lot of scenarios, or DSD 1.5.). And let's think about the scenarios in which people would not wish to swing:
1) it's an ex or some other relationship drama. Um. If you both showed up at the dance, I assume it's because you have decided to be grown up about it. The choices above let you choose how to deal, but I'm not bending over backwards. Anecdotally, I know these two oldsters in my community, he is a bit of a rakish gent and an odd one, she is an old school feminist with a strong personality. They will neither touch nor look at one another, but will position themselves correctly for the next move. If they found themselves shadows, they would grit their teeth and deal.
2) it's a creeper. If this person is that creepy, the leadership need to be dealing with them. It is not the caller who polices creepy behavior. Refusing the swing is legit here. Options above should help.
3) the person is a terrible swinger. Yup. I have had this happen. To this I shrug, say it's just a dance. Swing defensively, or use the alternate. Either way, it's only a few seconds each time, and only one dance, in a lifetime of dances.
I might choose not to call such a dance in a regular hall, but save it for a festival, where most people are good dancers, ex's and enemies have generally already either decided who is not going to attend or screwed themselves up to deal with it.
That leaves creepers. Still a kindness to suggest an alternate, to be used without judgement or hurt feelings if anyone decides they like it better than a swing.
My 2c
Andrea
Sent from my iOnlypretendtomultitask
> On Sep 8, 2015, at 11:16 AM, Rich Sbardella via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> Maia,
> I think it might be better to mention it at the end of the previous dance, so people can choose carefully where they dance without as much chance of offending someone. Clearly explain what a shadow is, and the relative proximity to a dancers position.
> Rich
>
>> On Tue, Sep 8, 2015 at 11:06 AM, Maia McCormick via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>> Hey all,
>>
>> First, a disclaimer: Some people on this listserv thing shadow swings are problematic. Some don't see any issue with them. This is NOT the conversation I want to have in this thread; I ask that you respond to the question I'm asking and do not debate my premise--at least not in this particular thread. This should help keep this thread on track and hopefully reduce excess noise and go-nowhere discussions on this listserv. Thanks!
>>
>> Anyway, the actual question I wanted to ask (whew!)--
>>
>> There do exist some really fabulous shadow-swing dances that I would love to be able to call, as long as I could do so without putting anyone in an uncomfortable position. Do folks have ideas for ways to mitigate the potential harms of shadow swing dances? I was considering, at the beginning of the dance, having dancers identify their shadow and mentioning, "this will be a shadow swing dance, so if you need to make any changes, do so now" (or something like that)--haven't gotten the wording down-pat, but the idea is giving dancers advance warning of a shadow swing so they can move (thereby changing their shadow) if they need to. Any thoughts on this method? Suggestions of others?
>>
>> Cheers.
>> Maia
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Callers mailing list
>> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> Callers mailing list
> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
Maia,
I think it might be better to mention it at the end of the previous dance,
so people can choose carefully where they dance without as much chance of
offending someone. Clearly explain what a shadow is, and the relative
proximity to a dancers position.
Rich
On Tue, Sep 8, 2015 at 11:06 AM, Maia McCormick via Callers <
callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> Hey all,
>
> First, a disclaimer: Some people on this listserv thing shadow swings are
> problematic. Some don't see any issue with them. This is NOT the
> conversation I want to have in this thread; *I ask that you respond to
> the question I'm asking and do not debate my premise--at least not in this
> particular thread. *This should help keep this thread on track and
> hopefully reduce excess noise and go-nowhere discussions on this listserv.
> Thanks!
>
> Anyway, the actual question I wanted to ask (whew!)--
>
> There do exist some really fabulous shadow-swing dances that I would love
> to be able to call, as long as I could do so without putting anyone in an
> uncomfortable position. Do folks have ideas for ways to mitigate the
> potential harms of shadow swing dances? I was considering, at the beginning
> of the dance, having dancers identify their shadow and mentioning, "this
> will be a shadow swing dance, so if you need to make any changes, do so
> now" (or something like that)--haven't gotten the wording down-pat, but the
> idea is giving dancers advance warning of a shadow swing so they can move
> (thereby changing their shadow) if they need to. Any thoughts on this
> method? Suggestions of others?
>
> Cheers.
> Maia
>
> _______________________________________________
> Callers mailing list
> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>
>
You could change it to a different shadow move, and the clever dancers will
figure out that they can swing. Or you might casually mention that you can
substitute a swing for the whatever.
Ron Blechner
On Sep 8, 2015 11:06 AM, "Maia McCormick via Callers" <
callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> Hey all,
>
> First, a disclaimer: Some people on this listserv thing shadow swings are
> problematic. Some don't see any issue with them. This is NOT the
> conversation I want to have in this thread; *I ask that you respond to
> the question I'm asking and do not debate my premise--at least not in this
> particular thread. *This should help keep this thread on track and
> hopefully reduce excess noise and go-nowhere discussions on this listserv.
> Thanks!
>
> Anyway, the actual question I wanted to ask (whew!)--
>
> There do exist some really fabulous shadow-swing dances that I would love
> to be able to call, as long as I could do so without putting anyone in an
> uncomfortable position. Do folks have ideas for ways to mitigate the
> potential harms of shadow swing dances? I was considering, at the beginning
> of the dance, having dancers identify their shadow and mentioning, "this
> will be a shadow swing dance, so if you need to make any changes, do so
> now" (or something like that)--haven't gotten the wording down-pat, but the
> idea is giving dancers advance warning of a shadow swing so they can move
> (thereby changing their shadow) if they need to. Any thoughts on this
> method? Suggestions of others?
>
> Cheers.
> Maia
>
> _______________________________________________
> Callers mailing list
> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>
>
Hey all,
First, a disclaimer: Some people on this listserv thing shadow swings are
problematic. Some don't see any issue with them. This is NOT the
conversation I want to have in this thread; *I ask that you respond to the
question I'm asking and do not debate my premise--at least not in this
particular thread. *This should help keep this thread on track and
hopefully reduce excess noise and go-nowhere discussions on this listserv.
Thanks!
Anyway, the actual question I wanted to ask (whew!)--
There do exist some really fabulous shadow-swing dances that I would love
to be able to call, as long as I could do so without putting anyone in an
uncomfortable position. Do folks have ideas for ways to mitigate the
potential harms of shadow swing dances? I was considering, at the beginning
of the dance, having dancers identify their shadow and mentioning, "this
will be a shadow swing dance, so if you need to make any changes, do so
now" (or something like that)--haven't gotten the wording down-pat, but the
idea is giving dancers advance warning of a shadow swing so they can move
(thereby changing their shadow) if they need to. Any thoughts on this
method? Suggestions of others?
Cheers.
Maia
Hey fellow members, i unsubscribed a while ago as i was working an online
job that required ridiculous amounts of reading, so i burned out on keeping
up with threads, but i'm back and looking forward to be part of the SW
community.
Meanwhile, amid composing a dance, i had an idea for a new (progressive! no
pun intended) figure. Consider it the hybrid offspring of Moneymusk
balances in non-wavy lines, and Petronella spins to the right. What do you
get? Long lines balance and spin to the right within your line. I don't
have a use for it in anything currently under construction, so thought i'd
put it out there for y'all choreographers to play with if you so choose. If
you do compose something with it, i'd love to see the result!
