16 Aug
2021
16 Aug
'21
8:43 p.m.
Hi all, with some dances resuming for the summer, I'd like to hear how
that's been for dance communities. Have groups started and then stopped? Is
there any news of infections from dance camps or weekends? I know Pinewoods
heightened their requirements (from just vaccination to also multiple
negative tests + masking for the first few days of American Week), and then
cancelled the rest of their camps.
Thanks,
Liz Burkhart (she/her)
Organizer with Lavender Country and Folk Dancers
16 Aug
16 Aug
8:53 p.m.
We started doing ECD in July and got three dances in (we dance weekly)
before closing down again due to the high transmission rate in our
community. We began with proof of vaccination required and by the end we
also required masks. We won't be dancing again until the transmission rate
in our county drops lower.
:Lisa
Country Dancers of Rochester
On Mon, Aug 16, 2021 at 4:44 PM Liz Burkhart via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Hi all, with some dances resuming for the summer,
I'd like to hear how
that's been for dance communities. Have groups started and then stopped? Is
there any news of infections from dance camps or weekends? I know Pinewoods
heightened their requirements (from just vaccination to also multiple
negative tests + masking for the first few days of American Week), and then
cancelled the rest of their camps.
Thanks,
Liz Burkhart (she/her)
Organizer with Lavender Country and Folk Dancers
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
--
*Seneca Falls. Selma. Stonewall.*
9:01 p.m.
In the SF Bay Area, we were cuing up to start at the end of July (with an automatic
cancellation if case counts rose above the "moderate" tier - 2.8/100k ), and the
case counts rose above that tier, so we didn't start, which was pretty disappoinintg.
SInce they've only gotten higher since then, we're not planning a restart for any
date certain.
We've approved a special event for November but that will automatically be canceled if
the case counts are too high.
--Alan
________________________________________
From: Lisa Brown via Organizers <organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
Sent: Monday, August 16, 2021 1:53 PM
To: Liz Burkhart
Cc: organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
Subject: [Organizers] Re: Seeking news on covid infections from dances with vaccination
We started doing ECD in July and got three dances in (we dance weekly) before closing down
again due to the high transmission rate in our community. We began with proof of
vaccination required and by the end we also required masks. We won't be dancing again
until the transmission rate in our county drops lower.
:Lisa
Country Dancers of Rochester
On Mon, Aug 16, 2021 at 4:44 PM Liz Burkhart via Organizers
<organizers@lists.sharedweight.net<mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>>
wrote:
Hi all, with some dances resuming for the summer, I'd like to hear how that's been
for dance communities. Have groups started and then stopped? Is there any news of
infections from dance camps or weekends? I know Pinewoods heightened their requirements
(from just vaccination to also multiple negative tests + masking for the first few days of
American Week), and then cancelled the rest of their camps.
Thanks,
Liz Burkhart (she/her)
Organizer with Lavender Country and Folk Dancers
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list --
organizers@lists.sharedweight.net<mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>
To unsubscribe send an email to
organizers-leave@lists.sharedweight.net<mailto:organizers-leave@lists.sharedweight.net>
--
Seneca Falls. Selma. Stonewall.
9:09 p.m.
Princeton Country Dancers had dances on July 24 and July 31 and then
canceled the dances we had scheduled for August and September.
We have not heard of anyone who attended those 2 dances coming down with covid.
Thanks,
Larry Koplik
On 08/16/2021 4:43 PM Liz Burkhart via Organizers
<organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Hi all, with some dances resuming for the summer, I'd like to hear how that's
been for dance communities. Have groups started and then stopped? Is there any news of
infections from dance camps or weekends? I know Pinewoods heightened their requirements
(from just vaccination to also multiple negative tests + masking for the first few days of
American Week), and then cancelled the rest of their camps.
Thanks,
Liz Burkhart (she/her)
Organizer with Lavender Country and Folk Dancers
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
9:33 p.m.
Alan, how did you come up with the threshold of 2.8/1k?
Lisa Lunt
Pronouns: She/Her
On Mon, Aug 16, 2021, 5:10 PM LAWRENCE KOPLIK via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Princeton Country Dancers had dances on July 24 and
July 31 and then
canceled the dances we had scheduled for August and September.
We have not heard of anyone who attended those 2 dances coming down with
covid.
Thanks,
Larry Koplik
On 08/16/2021 4:43 PM Liz Burkhart via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Hi all, with some dances resuming for the summer, I'd like to hear how
that's been for dance communities. Have groups started and then stopped? Is
there any news of infections from dance camps or weekends? I know Pinewoods
heightened their requirements (from just vaccination to also multiple
negative tests + masking for the first few days of American Week), and then
cancelled the rest of their camps.
Thanks,
Liz Burkhart (she/her)
Organizer with Lavender Country and Folk Dancers
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
10:02 p.m.
In California, the state public health department was putting counties into risk tiers by
case counts, and the 2.8 was the upper threshold for the lowest tier.
(In fact, when we made the rule, case counts were at 1.9, and we set the limit at 2, but
2.8 was a little more intellectually defensible. At the time the dance would have
happened case counts were at 10.)
[Assortment of difficult questions in how to do that setting - do we care, from a risk
management perspective, about case counts in the county if every attendee is provably
vaccinated? How much risk are we going to allow attendees to assume by attending? And
then Delta upset our applecart. Our guiding principle is that we don't want anyone to
die or get sick who wouldn't otherwise as a result of our holding a dance, including
children or immunocompromised people at home, so we're gonna be cautious.]
-- Alan
________________________________________
From: Lisa Marie Lunt via Organizers <organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
Sent: Monday, August 16, 2021 2:33 PM
To: LAWRENCE KOPLIK
Cc: Liz Burkhart; Liz Burkhart via Organizers
Subject: [Organizers] Re: Seeking news on covid infections from dances with vaccination
Alan, how did you come up with the threshold of 2.8/1k?
Lisa Lunt
Pronouns: She/Her
On Mon, Aug 16, 2021, 5:10 PM LAWRENCE KOPLIK via Organizers
<organizers@lists.sharedweight.net<mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>>
wrote:
Princeton Country Dancers had dances on July 24 and July 31 and then
canceled the dances we had scheduled for August and September.
We have not heard of anyone who attended those 2 dances coming down with covid.
Thanks,
Larry Koplik
On 08/16/2021 4:43 PM Liz Burkhart via Organizers
<organizers@lists.sharedweight.net<mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>>
wrote:
Hi all, with some dances resuming for the summer, I'd like to hear how that's been
for dance communities. Have groups started and then stopped? Is there any news of
infections from dance camps or weekends? I know Pinewoods heightened their requirements
(from just vaccination to also multiple negative tests + masking for the first few days of
American Week), and then cancelled the rest of their camps.
Thanks,
Liz Burkhart (she/her)
Organizer with Lavender Country and Folk Dancers
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list --
organizers@lists.sharedweight.net<mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>
To unsubscribe send an email to
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10:14 p.m.
You probably meant 2.8/100K. Which is actually quite low.
In comparison, here in Douglas County (in western Oregon), the current infection rate is
106/100K
Data by county across the U.S.:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/covid-cases.html
(I don't know if this page has an account wall.)
Woody
--
Woody Lane
Caller, Percussive Dancer
Roseburg, Oregon
________________________________
On 8/16/2021 2:34 PM, Lisa Marie Lunt via Organizers wrote:
Alan, how did you come up with the threshold of 2.8/1k?
Lisa Lunt
Pronouns: She/Her
On Mon, Aug 16, 2021, 5:10 PM LAWRENCE KOPLIK via Organizers
<organizers@lists.sharedweight.net<mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>>
wrote:
Princeton Country Dancers had dances on July 24 and July 31 and then
canceled the dances we had scheduled for August and September.
We have not heard of anyone who attended those 2 dances coming down with covid.
Thanks,
Larry Koplik
On 08/16/2021 4:43 PM Liz Burkhart via Organizers
<organizers@lists.sharedweight.net<mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>>
wrote:
Hi all, with some dances resuming for the summer, I'd like to hear how that's been
for dance communities. Have groups started and then stopped? Is there any news of
infections from dance camps or weekends? I know Pinewoods heightened their requirements
(from just vaccination to also multiple negative tests + masking for the first few days of
American Week), and then cancelled the rest of their camps.
Thanks,
Liz Burkhart (she/her)
Organizer with Lavender Country and Folk Dancers
10:28 p.m.
And indeed, in the first post I mentioned this, and the only one where I gave a
denominator, it was 100k.
________________________________________
From: Woody Lane via Organizers <organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
Sent: Monday, August 16, 2021 3:14 PM
To: organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
Subject: [Organizers] Re: Seeking news on covid infections from dances with vaccination
You probably meant 2.8/100K. Which is actually quite low.
In comparison, here in Douglas County (in western Oregon), the current infection rate is
106/100K
Data by county across the U.S.:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/covid-cases.html
(I don't know if this page has an account wall.)
Woody
--
Woody Lane
Caller, Percussive Dancer
Roseburg, Oregon
________________________________
On 8/16/2021 2:34 PM, Lisa Marie Lunt via Organizers wrote:
Alan, how did you come up with the threshold of 2.8/1k?
Lisa Lunt
Pronouns: She/Her
On Mon, Aug 16, 2021, 5:10 PM LAWRENCE KOPLIK via Organizers
<organizers@lists.sharedweight.net<mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>>
wrote:
Princeton Country Dancers had dances on July 24 and July 31 and then
canceled the dances we had scheduled for August and September.
We have not heard of anyone who attended those 2 dances coming down with covid.
Thanks,
Larry Koplik
On 08/16/2021 4:43 PM Liz Burkhart via Organizers
<organizers@lists.sharedweight.net<mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>>
wrote:
Hi all, with some dances resuming for the summer, I'd like to hear how that's been
for dance communities. Have groups started and then stopped? Is there any news of
infections from dance camps or weekends? I know Pinewoods heightened their requirements
(from just vaccination to also multiple negative tests + masking for the first few days of
American Week), and then cancelled the rest of their camps.
Thanks,
Liz Burkhart (she/her)
Organizer with Lavender Country and Folk Dancers
10:34 p.m.
For those who don't have it already, the CDC has this useful tracking page:
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker
Here is another:
https://covidactnow.org/
Sarah
On 8/16/21, 6:28 PM, "Winston, Alan P. via Organizers"
<organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
And indeed, in the first post I mentioned this, and the only one where I gave a
denominator, it was 100k.
________________________________________
From: Woody Lane via Organizers <organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
Sent: Monday, August 16, 2021 3:14 PM
To: organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
Subject: [Organizers] Re: Seeking news on covid infections from dances with
vaccination
You probably meant 2.8/100K. Which is actually quite low.
In comparison, here in Douglas County (in western Oregon), the current infection rate
is 106/100K
Data by county across the U.S.:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/covid-cases.html
(I don't know if this page has an account wall.)
Woody
--
Woody Lane
Caller, Percussive Dancer
Roseburg, Oregon
________________________________
On 8/16/2021 2:34 PM, Lisa Marie Lunt via Organizers wrote:
Alan, how did you come up with the threshold of 2.8/1k?
Lisa Lunt
Pronouns: She/Her
On Mon, Aug 16, 2021, 5:10 PM LAWRENCE KOPLIK via Organizers
<organizers@lists.sharedweight.net<mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>>
wrote:
Princeton Country Dancers had dances on July 24 and July 31 and then
canceled the dances we had scheduled for August and September.
We have not heard of anyone who attended those 2 dances coming down with covid.
Thanks,
Larry Koplik
On 08/16/2021 4:43 PM Liz Burkhart via Organizers
<organizers@lists.sharedweight.net<mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>>
wrote:
Hi all, with some dances resuming for the summer, I'd like to hear how that's
been for dance communities. Have groups started and then stopped? Is there any news of
infections from dance camps or weekends? I know Pinewoods heightened their requirements
(from just vaccination to also multiple negative tests + masking for the first few days of
American Week), and then cancelled the rest of their camps.
Thanks,
Liz Burkhart (she/her)
Organizer with Lavender Country and Folk Dancers
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
17 Aug
17 Aug
1:16 a.m.
We are in NH, the second lowest transmission state 69/100k in the last 7 days, and VT is
the lowest w/ at 66.5/100k. We aren’t even considering reopening until 2022.
Is there any better way to spread a virus to the community than a contra dance? Well,
maybe, but very few…
Sadly, there are many people who aren’t being open and honest about their vaccination
status, even denying COVID is a significant concern, or worse, literally willing to see
people (themselves and others) die unwittingly, as they don’t feel obligated to tell
anyone they haven’t been vaccinated nor obligated to wear masks nor to stay away from
others, even citing HIPPA as a basis for not sharing or needing to comply with decent
measures. And these are just the kinda of people we think of stereotypically.
🤷
Add delta and perhaps now lambda, and waiting just makes sense. There is no way we can
track what kind of transmission happens at dances; too many people crosssing paths with
each other over and over again, and too many are ashamed and/or unwilling to share their
exposure. The spread via asymptomatic transmission is unseen and could easily be many
steps away before anyone becomes sick enough to consider testing and reporting. Days and
weeks too late to make a difference even if they did report.
All just my humble perception.
I know, I’m not answering the direct question asked. I saw a lovely older dancing couple
just yesterday, and I said, WE WILL DANCE AGAIN; but not yet.
😢
Peter
> On Aug 16, 2021, at 4:43 PM, Liz Burkhart via Organizers
<organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>
> Hi all, with some dances resuming for the summer, I'd like to hear how that's
been for dance communities. Have groups started and then stopped? Is there any news of
infections from dance camps or weekends? I know Pinewoods heightened their requirements
(from just vaccination to also multiple negative tests + masking for the first few days of
American Week), and then cancelled the rest of their camps.
>
> Thanks,
> Liz Burkhart (she/her)
> Organizer with Lavender Country and Folk Dancers
> _______________________________________________
> Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
4:45 a.m.
Hi Liz and All,
The Bloomington Old Time Music and Dance Group (Indiana) has been holding a weekly contra
dance outdoors on Wednesday nights since the beginning of June (11 dances so far). To date
it has gone very well and our members have been very grateful for both the safety measures
we have taken as well as the opportunity to gather and hear live music and dance again.
That said, with the changing news of transmissibility of the Delta variant even among
those who are vaccinated, our board is now having continuous discussions of whether we
should stop holding the dance or modify procedures. None in attendance have come down with
Covid to our knowledge (and given our community dynamics and knowledge of each other, we
are likely to have known).
Here is how we have run our dance since the beginning of June:
* Dance held outdoors in a large open-air pavilion. Plenty of room for people to
remain distanced as they like.
* When we started these dances, our community transmission was at the lowest category
level according to state of Indiana and CDC guidelines.
* Must be a member of our group to participate. We did allow new members to join. This
helps make sure we have contact information for all in attendance, and demonstrates some
commitment to our group.
* Each person (including performers) must show proof of vaccination. We keep a list of
our members and highlight the names when they show proof for reference in future weeks.
* Every person gets a wristband when they check in. That lets everyone else know their
vaccination has been verified by us. Originally, we had two different color wrist bands
for those who were ok with regular contra swings, and others who might want to keep more
distance while swinging or might not want to do twirls, etc. I know partners should always
ask that, but this helped make it more clear, especially as folks encountered neighbors in
a line.
* We did not advertise our dance outside of our group. We sent our weekly email to our
list and posted on our Facebook page. We did gain a number of new members, but that was
through current members bringing friends who joined. This ensured that we knew everyone in
attendance. Each person had a personal connection to at least one other and usually
multiple other people present. Initially, we wanted to establish our procedures and to
create a safe space for our current members to find their comfort level with gathering and
dancing again.
* We are a small group in a relatively small community. We have had between 22 and 40
people attend including performers. We have had between 10 and 22 people dancing at any
one time. Some people have never felt comfortable dancing in the contra line, but do enjoy
listening to the music or dancing by themselves, or even doing the hula hoop to the music!
We have emphasized we want everyone to participate at their comfort level and everyone has
been very kind and accepting of different people’s comfort levels. Masks have been
optional and worn by a few (that is now increasing).
* We have plenty of hand sanitizer bottles out at check-in and on the dance stage.
* Dance is shorter than in pre-Covid times. When we started we made it just an hour.
Now it is usually about 80 minutes long with no designated break.
* We had been holding a weekly Zoom dance before this that began in March, 2020 when
things shut down with the pandemic. We searched for options to keep the online option
open, but could not find an outdoor location where we also had a strong internet signal.
Some weeks we are able to allow others to listen in (no video) through a radio broadcast.
We had a loyal Zoom following, and were nervous about losing that. But we now have a loyal
in-person gathering with some, but not a great deal of overlap with the Zoom audience
(mostly organizers/board members).
* Both our Zoom and our in-person audiences have been generous financially where we
are able to give 100% of donations received to the performers. We made the in-person dance
by donation instead of a set fee, and that has worked well. We have a lower guarantee to
the band and caller than we did pre-Covid, but it often works out that the performers get
about what they would have for our prior Wednesday night dances even though the playing
time is less than before.
How that is changing:
Last week we decided to offer two contra lines – one restricted to dancers wearing masks
and one where masks were optional. We changed the meaning of the different wrist band
colors to signify this. It ended up working quite well. We ended up with 8 dancers in each
group. There were some people who initially said they were open to wearing a mask while
dancing, but once they tried it, they found they had difficulty breathing, and discovered
it would be hard for them to dance with a mask on. The last two weeks we asked people to
wear a mask when they check in. This last week, we made masks available for anyone who
didn’t come prepared for that. Going forward with having two very small contra lines, we
are making sure our callers are aware when they plan their program to account for that.
Our Board has been discussing the need to modify procedures via email in recent weeks, and
also discussed at our board meeting yesterday. We have a few board members who would like
to require masks while dancing or even discontinue holding the dance in person. Others
would like to keep things as they are or step back to meeting in person, but with people
dancing solo or with their designated partner while staying physically distanced from
others. I would say the majority of our dancers come alone, so most do not have partners
in their household. Different people have different opinions about whether it is still
relatively safe to continue dancing as long as we are outdoors.
We have definitely canceled a planned one day dance event in October that was to be held
indoors. If we continue with our weekly dance, it will be outdoors throughout September
and perhaps into October. None of us on the board would consider an indoor dance at this
time. We have begun buying lights and such as it begins to get dark a little earlier. We
also moved the start time of our dance up to 7:30 pm to have more daylight (it used to
start at 8 pm).
Personally, I am feeling much more uneasy about dancing so close with others even though
they are vaccinated and we are outdoors. I wore a mask and danced only with others who
were masked last week. The week prior I did not join the contra line. I wore a mask and
only danced by myself and with one other person who was also masked. I do know people
locally who were vaccinated and still got Covid (first outbreak was among local blues
musicians). Each case seemed to be indoors, and while they may have initially gotten it
from someone who was unvaccinated, there were cases where that vaccinated person went home
and passed it on to their vaccinated partner. We now have a mask mandate in our county for
indoor venues.
We have worked so hard to keep our community together through this. We were very proud to
hold a successful weekly dance throughout on Zoom. However, now I doubt we will have the
enthusiasm or interest to participate in a Zoom event if we discontinue our in-person
dance. It is disheartening. Yet, I believe that if we were just deciding today whether to
start back with an in-person dance, our board wouldn’t even consider it given the current
numbers and the information about Delta. With having a successful in-person dance running
the past 11 weeks, it’s tough to cancel it once again. The dance has brought great joy to
those who have participated and has been good for everyone’s spirits.
--Mary Jean Regoli (she/her)
Board Member/Treasurer for Bloomington Old Time Music and Dance Group
Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows
From: Liz Burkhart via Organizers<mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>
Sent: Monday, August 16, 2021 4:43 PM
To: organizers@lists.sharedweight.net<mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>
Subject: [Organizers] Seeking news on covid infections from dances with vaccination
Hi all, with some dances resuming for the summer, I'd like to hear how that's been
for dance communities. Have groups started and then stopped? Is there any news of
infections from dance camps or weekends? I know Pinewoods heightened their requirements
(from just vaccination to also multiple negative tests + masking for the first few days of
American Week), and then cancelled the rest of their camps.
Thanks,
Liz Burkhart (she/her)
Organizer with Lavender Country and Folk Dancers
3:39 p.m.
Hi All,
This is turning into such a fruitful exchange that I thought I would insert a copy of an
email that I originally wrote to Christine Appleberry and Sue Songer last week when they
wrote to me from Portland while addressing their own dance community’s questions.
Dear Christine and Sue,
Big sigh. This has been such a hard 18 months for all of us and it is difficult to take
on board the fact that it simply isn’t over yet, despite how diligent so many of us have
been in following all of the public health guidelines, including getting vaccinated.
The reason that Multnomah County can find itself in the seemingly paradoxical position of
having both high rates of vaccination AND high rates of infection is due entirely to the
delta variant, which has been determined to be as contagious as chickenpox.
“As contagious as chickenpox” means that if one person has the Delta variant up to 90% of
the people who come into close contact with that person will also become infected.
WHAT DOES “CLOSE CONTACT” MEAN?
Being close enough to breathe in the air that someone else is breathing out.
For contra dancers that means the danger will always be highest during swings, right
shoulder rounds, hay for four in tight quarters, balance toward your partner/neighbor,
etc.
It also means that the cone of danger will get bigger and bigger the harder an infected
person is breathing out and/or an uninfected person is breathing in.
When dancers are breathing hard, and depending on direction of airflow, the danger posed
by an infected dancer could extend to the people in the next hands four or, for at least a
couple of minutes, to any dancers coming up and down the line who cross into the airspace
that dancer just occupied.
To more easily visualize this, imagine contradancing with various rates of vigor in a room
cold for enough to see their breath.
Touching your eyes, nose, or mouth with something someone else breathed / coughed /
sneezed on a moment ago.
For contra dancers that means touching your own face after holding hands, even briefly,
with an infected person who has recently had their hand near their face when they coughed,
sneezed, cleared their throat, muffled a yelp of delight, sang along with the band, or did
anything else that put that hand in contact with whatever was emanating from their mouth
and nose.
Note: COVID is a respiratory disease so a contra dancer is not at risk for anything beyond
getting grossed out by touching someone else’s sweat-soaked back or shirt
AM I AT RISK FOR BEING PART OF THE 90% EVEN IF I AM FULLY VACCINATED?
Yes. Because although the current crop of vaccines seem to be quite good at keeping fully
vaccinated people from getting sick, ending up in the hospital, and dying from all the
currently known types of SARS-CoV-2 (including the delta variant), they are not as good at
the very much harder job of keeping a vaccinated person from becoming infected -- and
therefore infectious -- in the first place. Particularly from the delta variant.
BUT ISN’T THERE A WAY TO TELL WHEN PEOPLE ARE CONTAGEOUS?
Not always. Respiratory diseases are famous for making people super infectious while
asymptomatic (no sign of illness) or pre-symptomatic (no sign of illness YET). For
example, most people who catch flu, chickenpox, or measles out in the community do so from
someone who has no idea that they are even sick yet because they are still
pre-symptomatic.
So most fully vaccinated dancers will NOT know that they may be shedding infectious
virions of the delta variant up and down the line with each exhaled breath because: a)
they don’t feel sick, b) vaccinated people are not routinely tested, and c) everything in
their prior personal experience has taught them that vaccinated = uninfected.
DOES WEARING A MASK HELP?
Yes, a lot! But, in the Delta variant world we have all suddenly found ourselves plunged
into, it only helps if everyone -- including vaccinated people -- wear them while in close
contact with other people. And a lot of people find it really difficult to dance hard for
more than a short time in masks.
Dancers seem to particularly dislike the N95 masks currently being advocated because they
have a very close fit (thereby making them safer than standard masks) which makes it more
difficult to breathe hard (thereby making them a bummer).
A good alternative is to double mask with a “surgical” type mask under a cloth mask. That
combination increases safety while, inexplicably, also making it easier to breathe than
through a cloth mask alone and reduces glasses fogging. Win-Win!
WHAT DOES THIS ALL MEAN FOR MULTNOMAH COUNTY?
Because of the delta variant, Multnomah County has a large population of fully vaccinated
people who have become unwitting, asymptomatic transmitters of COVID-19 to everyone
around. Causing your COVID cases to surge.
WHAT DOES THIS ALL MEAN FOR CONTRA DANCING?
Pragmatically, because of the delta variant it will be very difficult to hold a risk-free
contra dance right now, even at vaccinated only events as a single vaccinated person who
unknowingly has the delta variant could unwittingly pass it on to an entire room full of
other vaccinated dancers over the course of the evening, for all of the reasons that I
described above and Sue and the epidemiologist she encountered at a CDSS workshop lay out
below. Those newly infected dancers could then unwittingly take it home to their
children, grandchildren, non-dancing family members, immunocompromised dinner guests, and
anyone else who is unvaccinated, under-vaccinated, or even fully vaccinated.
BUT WHAT IF WE ASKED FOR PROOF OF NEGATIVE TEST RESULTS AT THE DOOR?
Testing is super helpful in identifying infectious people but it is not completely
protective for Dance because it’s all about the timing. A negative test result from 24
hours ago just means a person’s test results were negative 24 hours ago. It DOESN’T mean
they didn’t get infected 23 hours ago or prove that they weren’t infected up to several
days ago but had not yet mounted a measurable response by the time the test was conducted.
In both scenarios, a person with a negative test result from 24 hours ago may very well
still be infected and at risk for passing their infection on to all of their partners,
neighbors, shadows, and trail buddies without even knowing it.
· Some dances are paying for test kits to do on-site testing. That will eliminate the
“got infected 23 hours ago” possibility but not the “got infected too recently to mount a
measurable test response” possibility.
WHAT ABOUT PEOPLE WHO HAD COVID AND ARE OVER IT NOW? CAN THEY SAFELY DANCE / PLAY / CALL?
The jury is still out on that. There have been reports from the beginning of the pandemic
of people becoming sick more than once, but it seemed to be rare. Delta is so new that the
data are still limited on whether people who have had Covid are any more or less
susceptible to becoming asymptomatically infected -- and infectious -- if they run into
the delta variant. Given how rapidly the delta variant is surging there should start
being epidemiological reports about that reasonably soon though. Stay tuned.
IS ENGLISH SAFER THAN CONTRA FOR DANCERS?
Yes, it is safer (albeit not actually safe) for all the reasons Sue lays out below.
IS ENGLISH SAFER THAN CONTRA FOR MUSICIANS, CALLERS, AND SOUND?
No. Particularly in the case of flute or clarinet players and anyone else who can’t
realistically wear a mask while playing/calling. In addition, I have also been hearing
from musicians, callers, and sound techs that it is hard on their mental health when they
start feeling trapped in place by lines of dancers or people out at the top who stray
closer and closer to them and that they experience schizophrenic moments of joy mixed with
panic when dancers start cheering (read: exhaling hard) in their direction after a dance,
particularly if the dancers are also crowding around them while vocally expressing their
enthusiastic appreciation.
That’s it for now. Let me know if this is sufficient for y’all to start thinking through
your next steps or if you would like to also talk on the phone.
Hands Four [properly sanitized of course] ☺
-Kimbi
(in my day job role as Assistant Professor (Behavioral, Social and Health Education
Science), Rollins School of Public Health of Emory University and Director/Goddess,
Vaccine Dinner Club (a 4,300+ member science organization focusing on vaccine science)
P.S. For anyone interested in hearing more about Covid vaccine efficacy, variants, and
boosters, the Vaccine Dinner Club (VDC) is having an online presentation on Wednesday,
September 1 -- see here for more details and registration
Sent from my "Smart" Phone
(so please excuse bizarre and nonsensical Auto-corrects)
On Aug 17, 2021, at 12:45 AM, Mary Jean Regoli via
Organizers <organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Hi Liz and All,
The Bloomington Old Time Music and Dance Group (Indiana) has been holding a weekly contra
dance outdoors on Wednesday nights since the beginning of June (11 dances so far). To date
it has gone very well and our members have been very grateful for both the safety measures
we have taken as well as the opportunity to gather and hear live music and dance again.
That said, with the changing news of transmissibility of the Delta variant even among
those who are vaccinated, our board is now having continuous discussions of whether we
should stop holding the dance or modify procedures. None in attendance have come down with
Covid to our knowledge (and given our community dynamics and knowledge of each other, we
are likely to have known).
Here is how we have run our dance since the beginning of June:
Dance held outdoors in a large open-air pavilion. Plenty of room for people to remain
distanced as they like.
When we started these dances, our community transmission was at the lowest category level
according to state of Indiana and CDC guidelines.
Must be a member of our group to participate. We did allow new members to join. This
helps make sure we have contact information for all in attendance, and demonstrates some
commitment to our group.
Each person (including performers) must show proof of vaccination. We keep a list of our
members and highlight the names when they show proof for reference in future weeks.
Every person gets a wristband when they check in. That lets everyone else know their
vaccination has been verified by us. Originally, we had two different color wrist bands
for those who were ok with regular contra swings, and others who might want to keep more
distance while swinging or might not want to do twirls, etc. I know partners should always
ask that, but this helped make it more clear, especially as folks encountered neighbors in
a line.
We did not advertise our dance outside of our group. We sent our weekly email to our list
and posted on our Facebook page. We did gain a number of new members, but that was through
current members bringing friends who joined. This ensured that we knew everyone in
attendance. Each person had a personal connection to at least one other and usually
multiple other people present. Initially, we wanted to establish our procedures and to
create a safe space for our current members to find their comfort level with gathering and
dancing again.
We are a small group in a relatively small community. We have had between 22 and 40
people attend including performers. We have had between 10 and 22 people dancing at any
one time. Some people have never felt comfortable dancing in the contra line, but do enjoy
listening to the music or dancing by themselves, or even doing the hula hoop to the music!
We have emphasized we want everyone to participate at their comfort level and everyone has
been very kind and accepting of different people’s comfort levels. Masks have been
optional and worn by a few (that is now increasing).
We have plenty of hand sanitizer bottles out at check-in and on the dance stage.
Dance is shorter than in pre-Covid times. When we started we made it just an hour. Now it
is usually about 80 minutes long with no designated break.
We had been holding a weekly Zoom dance before this that began in March, 2020 when things
shut down with the pandemic. We searched for options to keep the online option open, but
could not find an outdoor location where we also had a strong internet signal. Some weeks
we are able to allow others to listen in (no video) through a radio broadcast. We had a
loyal Zoom following, and were nervous about losing that. But we now have a loyal
in-person gathering with some, but not a great deal of overlap with the Zoom audience
(mostly organizers/board members).
Both our Zoom and our in-person audiences have been generous financially where we are
able to give 100% of donations received to the performers. We made the in-person dance by
donation instead of a set fee, and that has worked well. We have a lower guarantee to the
band and caller than we did pre-Covid, but it often works out that the performers get
about what they would have for our prior Wednesday night dances even though the playing
time is less than before.
How that is changing:
Last week we decided to offer two contra lines – one restricted to dancers wearing masks
and one where masks were optional. We changed the meaning of the different wrist band
colors to signify this. It ended up working quite well. We ended up with 8 dancers in each
group. There were some people who initially said they were open to wearing a mask while
dancing, but once they tried it, they found they had difficulty breathing, and discovered
it would be hard for them to dance with a mask on. The last two weeks we asked people to
wear a mask when they check in. This last week, we made masks available for anyone who
didn’t come prepared for that. Going forward with having two very small contra lines, we
are making sure our callers are aware when they plan their program to account for that.
Our Board has been discussing the need to modify procedures via email in recent weeks,
and also discussed at our board meeting yesterday. We have a few board members who would
like to require masks while dancing or even discontinue holding the dance in person.
Others would like to keep things as they are or step back to meeting in person, but with
people dancing solo or with their designated partner while staying physically distanced
from others. I would say the majority of our dancers come alone, so most do not have
partners in their household. Different people have different opinions about whether it is
still relatively safe to continue dancing as long as we are outdoors.
We have definitely canceled a planned one day dance event in October that was to be held
indoors. If we continue with our weekly dance, it will be outdoors throughout September
and perhaps into October. None of us on the board would consider an indoor dance at this
time. We have begun buying lights and such as it begins to get dark a little earlier. We
also moved the start time of our dance up to 7:30 pm to have more daylight (it used to
start at 8 pm).
Personally, I am feeling much more uneasy about dancing so close with others even though
they are vaccinated and we are outdoors. I wore a mask and danced only with others who
were masked last week. The week prior I did not join the contra line. I wore a mask and
only danced by myself and with one other person who was also masked. I do know people
locally who were vaccinated and still got Covid (first outbreak was among local blues
musicians). Each case seemed to be indoors, and while they may have initially gotten it
from someone who was unvaccinated, there were cases where that vaccinated person went home
and passed it on to their vaccinated partner. We now have a mask mandate in our county for
indoor venues.
We have worked so hard to keep our community together through this. We were very proud to
hold a successful weekly dance throughout on Zoom. However, now I doubt we will have the
enthusiasm or interest to participate in a Zoom event if we discontinue our in-person
dance. It is disheartening. Yet, I believe that if we were just deciding today whether to
start back with an in-person dance, our board wouldn’t even consider it given the current
numbers and the information about Delta. With having a successful in-person dance running
the past 11 weeks, it’s tough to cancel it once again. The dance has brought great joy to
those who have participated and has been good for everyone’s spirits.
--Mary Jean Regoli (she/her)
Board Member/Treasurer for Bloomington Old Time Music and Dance Group
Sent from Mail for Windows
From: Liz Burkhart via Organizers
Sent: Monday, August 16, 2021 4:43 PM
To: organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
Subject: [Organizers] Seeking news on covid infections from dances with vaccination
Hi all, with some dances resuming for the summer, I'd like to hear how that's
been for dance communities. Have groups started and then stopped? Is there any news of
infections from dance camps or weekends? I know Pinewoods heightened their requirements
(from just vaccination to also multiple negative tests + masking for the first few days of
American Week), and then cancelled the rest of their camps.
Thanks,
Liz Burkhart (she/her)
Organizer with Lavender Country and Folk Dancers
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
18 Aug
18 Aug
1:24 a.m.
Reporting in from Minnesota: Contra, ECD, and IFD at Tapestry Folkdance
Center in Minneapolis started up at various points during the summer.
Family dance has not started dancing in person; when our committee last met
in July, we decided to wait and see until at least October, a decision that
is looking smarter every week, if I may say so.
Dancing is indoors in our building. Tapestry was in the fortunate position
of having installed a brand-new HVAC system in 2019, and was able to
adjust/modify it to have an exceptional air-exchange rate (10 full air
replacements an hour at full blast).
Personally, I have elected not to participate in dancing or to call dances
these first couple months, but I am running sound on occasion, masked and
pretty much staying at the sound booth except for setup and teardown.
Tapestry announced last week that it was going to require proof of
vaccination for everyone entering the building starting this weekend. I do
not know if Tapestry is trying to track whether anyone who has danced there
contracts COVID.
The Monday Night Square Dance series (not affiliated with Tapestry and in a
different space) had announced they were going to restart dancing the first
Monday in October. My suspicion is that they're in wait-and-see mode.
David Kirchner
19 Aug
19 Aug
4:07 a.m.
We held one "nearly outdoors" dance July 20 (park pavilion w/ several fans) for
fully-vaccinated folks (cards and contact info required). This after community
transmission had been low for a month (but was moving towards moderate at the dance date.)
Of course, we've since blown through substantial to high community transmission --
even in an area with >70+% of those eligible vaccinated -- which has led to cancelation
of other dances at least through October, including our September dance weekend.
Steve Pike
Madison, WI
6:09 p.m.
Hi Liz and All,
I am in no way, shape or form a health expert. At the same time,
I'm reasonably intelligent
and have been reading a lot and asking many questions.
Harvest Moon Folk Society started back dancing at River Falls
Lodge, Greenville County, SC, in July.
The venue is pretty open air except for winter, with big fans moving air.
I no longer run sound there, but that's a separate thing(too much driving).
The Old Farmers Ball group dances in Bryson Gym at Warren Wilson
College, outside Asheville, NC.
The College was supposed to say Monday when outside events like dancing
will open again, and
what precautions will be required. Am waiting to hear what they decided.
The CDC says the biggest risk factor for life-threatening covid is
age.
The second biggest risk factor is obesity. It would be great to see
Public Health helping everybody move toward being healthier.
(Big + for dancing, and singing together is an excellent builder of
social capital!)
I would like to see more information about how Vitamin D can
reduce the risk and severity of covid.
Some evidence points to being poor as being a significant risk
factor. How many of us
on this list are poor? How about we effectively address equity in the US?
Animals can carry covid. From the CDC:
) Companion animals, including pet cats and dogs and one ferret.
) Animals in zoos and sanctuaries, including several types of big cats,
otters, and non-human primates.
) Mink on mink farms.
) Wild white-tailed deer in several U.S. states.
We have covid in domestic and wild animals, and vaccinated people
can spread it.
Will covid become endemic?
My MD says there are a lot of unknowns about the current vaccines.
For anybody who is healthy and under 50, her current recommendation is
don't get it.
Denmark is allowing those who have been vaccinated into the country.
A negative test will also get you in, as well as proof of having covid
and recovering.
Could these be reasonable criteria for dancing and singing?
I'm lucky in being able to eat well and most days be outside some in
the sunshine and fresh air, and have a supply of Ivermectin.
Thanks and good health, Weogo
On 8/16/2021 4:43 PM, Liz Burkhart via Organizers wrote:
Hi all, with some dances resuming for the summer,
6:50 p.m.
Breathtaking!
"Big + for dancing, and singing together is an excellent builder of
social capital!"
The two MOST EFFICIENT methods possible for spreading COVID. Literally,
you cannot invent more efficient activities for mass spreader events.
Mac Sloan
On 8/19/21 14:09, Weogo Reed via Organizers wrote:
Hi Liz and All,
I am in no way, shape or form a health expert. At the same time,
I'm reasonably intelligent
and have been reading a lot and asking many questions.
Harvest Moon Folk Society started back dancing at River Falls
Lodge, Greenville County, SC, in July.
The venue is pretty open air except for winter, with big fans moving air.
I no longer run sound there, but that's a separate thing(too much driving).
The Old Farmers Ball group dances in Bryson Gym at Warren Wilson
College, outside Asheville, NC.
The College was supposed to say Monday when outside events like dancing
will open again, and
what precautions will be required. Am waiting to hear what they decided.
The CDC says the biggest risk factor for life-threatening covid is
age.
The second biggest risk factor is obesity. It would be great to see
Public Health helping everybody move toward being healthier.
(Big + for dancing, and singing together is an excellent builder of
social capital!)
I would like to see more information about how Vitamin D can
reduce the risk and severity of covid.
Some evidence points to being poor as being a significant risk
factor. How many of us
on this list are poor? How about we effectively address equity in the US?
Animals can carry covid. From the CDC:
) Companion animals, including pet cats and dogs and one ferret.
) Animals in zoos and sanctuaries, including several types of big cats,
otters, and non-human primates.
) Mink on mink farms.
) Wild white-tailed deer in several U.S. states.
We have covid in domestic and wild animals, and vaccinated people
can spread it.
Will covid become endemic?
My MD says there are a lot of unknowns about the current vaccines.
For anybody who is healthy and under 50, her current recommendation is
don't get it.
Denmark is allowing those who have been vaccinated into the country.
A negative test will also get you in, as well as proof of having covid
and recovering.
Could these be reasonable criteria for dancing and singing?
I'm lucky in being able to eat well and most days be outside some in
the sunshine and fresh air, and have a supply of Ivermectin.
Thanks and good health, Weogo
On 8/16/2021 4:43 PM, Liz Burkhart via Organizers wrote:
--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com
Hi all, with some dances resuming for the summer,
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net 
11:37 p.m.
I am dismayed to hear about any physicians advising people against getting vaccinated.
The nation's hospitals are filled with young, otherwise healthy, mostly unvaccinated
people dying of Covid. Sunshine and fresh air will not keep you safe.
And then there's
this:https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/why-you-should-not-use-…
Liz Sturgen
-----Original Message-----
From: Walker Sloan via Organizers <organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
To: organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
Sent: Thu, Aug 19, 2021 2:50 pm
Subject: [Organizers] Re: Seeking news on covid infections from dances with vaccination
Breathtaking!
"Big + for dancing, and singing together is an excellent builder of
social capital!"
The two MOST EFFICIENT methods possible for spreading COVID. Literally,
you cannot invent more efficient activities for mass spreader events.
Mac Sloan
On 8/19/21 14:09, Weogo Reed via Organizers wrote:
Hi Liz and All,
I am in no way, shape or form a health expert. At the same time,
I'm reasonably intelligent
and have been reading a lot and asking many questions.
Harvest Moon Folk Society started back dancing at River Falls
Lodge, Greenville County, SC, in July.
The venue is pretty open air except for winter, with big fans moving air.
I no longer run sound there, but that's a separate thing(too much driving).
The Old Farmers Ball group dances in Bryson Gym at Warren Wilson
College, outside Asheville, NC.
The College was supposed to say Monday when outside events like dancing
will open again, and
what precautions will be required. Am waiting to hear what they decided.
The CDC says the biggest risk factor for life-threatening covid is
age.
The second biggest risk factor is obesity. It would be great to see
Public Health helping everybody move toward being healthier.
(Big + for dancing, and singing together is an excellent builder of
social capital!)
I would like to see more information about how Vitamin D can
reduce the risk and severity of covid.
Some evidence points to being poor as being a significant risk
factor. How many of us
on this list are poor? How about we effectively address equity in the US?
Animals can carry covid. From the CDC:
) Companion animals, including pet cats and dogs and one ferret.
) Animals in zoos and sanctuaries, including several types of big cats,
otters, and non-human primates.
) Mink on mink farms.
) Wild white-tailed deer in several U.S. states.
We have covid in domestic and wild animals, and vaccinated people
can spread it.
Will covid become endemic?
My MD says there are a lot of unknowns about the current vaccines.
For anybody who is healthy and under 50, her current recommendation is
don't get it.
Denmark is allowing those who have been vaccinated into the country.
A negative test will also get you in, as well as proof of having covid
and recovering.
Could these be reasonable criteria for dancing and singing?
I'm lucky in being able to eat well and most days be outside some in
the sunshine and fresh air, and have a supply of Ivermectin.
Thanks and good health, Weogo
On 8/16/2021 4:43 PM, Liz Burkhart via Organizers wrote:
--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
Hi all, with some dances resuming for the summer,
_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net 
20 Aug
20 Aug
12:34 a.m.
Thanks, Liz!
In Oregon ECD started in July, and now has closed again due to the Delta variant.
I am personally more and more angry at those to refuse to get vaccinated.
Carmen
On 08/19/2021 4:37 PM lsturgen--- via Organizers
<organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
I am dismayed to hear about any physicians advising people against getting
vaccinated. The nation's hospitals are filled with young, otherwise healthy, mostly
unvaccinated people dying of Covid. Sunshine and fresh air will not keep you safe.
And then there's this:
https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/why-you-should-not-use-iverm…
Liz Sturgen
-----Original Message-----
From: Walker Sloan via Organizers <organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
To: organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
Sent: Thu, Aug 19, 2021 2:50 pm
Subject: [Organizers] Re: Seeking news on covid infections from dances with
vaccination
Breathtaking!
"Big + for dancing, and singing together is an excellent builder of
social capital!"
The two MOST EFFICIENT methods possible for spreading COVID. Literally,
you cannot invent more efficient activities for mass spreader events.
Mac Sloan
On 8/19/21 14:09, Weogo Reed via Organizers wrote:
Hi Liz and All,
I am in no way, shape or form a health expert. At the same time,
I'm reasonably intelligent
and have been reading a lot and asking many questions.
Harvest Moon Folk Society started back dancing at River Falls
Lodge, Greenville County, SC, in July.
The venue is pretty open air except for winter, with big fans moving air.
I no longer run sound there, but that's a separate thing(too much driving).
The Old Farmers Ball group dances in Bryson Gym at Warren Wilson
College, outside Asheville, NC.
The College was supposed to say Monday when outside events like dancing
will open again, and
what precautions will be required. Am waiting to hear what they decided.
The CDC says the biggest risk factor for life-threatening covid is
age.
The second biggest risk factor is obesity. It would be great to see
Public Health helping everybody move toward being healthier.
(Big + for dancing, and singing together is an excellent builder of
social capital!)
I would like to see more information about how Vitamin D can
reduce the risk and severity of covid.
Some evidence points to being poor as being a significant risk
factor. How many of us
on this list are poor? How about we effectively address equity in the US?
Animals can carry covid. From the CDC:
) Companion animals, including pet cats and dogs and one ferret.
) Animals in zoos and sanctuaries, including several types of big cats,
otters, and non-human primates.
) Mink on mink farms.
) Wild white-tailed deer in several U.S. states.
We have covid in domestic and wild animals, and vaccinated people
can spread it.
Will covid become endemic?
My MD says there are a lot of unknowns about the current vaccines.
For anybody who is healthy and under 50, her current recommendation is
don't get it.
Denmark is allowing those who have been vaccinated into the country.
A negative test will also get you in, as well as proof of having covid
and recovering.
Could these be reasonable criteria for dancing and singing?
I'm lucky in being able to eat well and most days be outside some in
the sunshine and fresh air, and have a supply of Ivermectin.
Thanks and good health, Weogo
On 8/16/2021 4:43 PM, Liz Burkhart via Organizers wrote:
--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com/
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
mailto:organizers-leave@lists.sharedweight.net
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
Hi all, with some dances resuming for the summer,
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
mailto:organizers-leave@lists.sharedweight.net 
4:19 a.m.
The false covid information in Weogo's reply is astounding.
And vaccine skepticism is a hill I will fight on. As an autistic person,
the similar rhetoric I've read in this email is the same stuff, and has the
same roots, as 2 decades of anti-autism hate. Propagating these myths about
vaccination safety and doubt contributes to my harm, and harm of other
autistics.
I can thus only take your email as with reckless intent, at best, and
correct some of the disinformation you've spread here.
1. The biggest risk factor _was_ age, before vaccines. The biggest risk
factor now is being unvaccinated. Right now, the chance of getting a severe
case of Covid-19, with a vaccine, is just over 0.001%.
https://www.nbcnews.com/specials/data-shows-how-rare-severe-breakthrough-co…
"Approximately 1 in 83,000 vaccinated people died from Covid, which was
even less likely than dying from hornet, wasp or bee stings."
2. Let's _not_ with the fat shaming. My fat dancer friends regularly talk
about how their cardiovascular vital signs are great. Because they dance
regularly.
3. Vitamin D - are you serious? We're all here talking about mitigating
risk of a disease that travels airborne as a particle for hours. The rest
of us are talking masks and vaccines here.
But, sure. Let's look at Vitamin D. Absolutely it's a good thing for your
body.
Studies, however, don't show it as the wonder vitamin against Covid-19 as
some naturalpaths would like us to believe.
https://www.mcgill.ca/newsroom/channels/news/vitamin-d-may-not-protect-agai…
4. Your MD is going against the CDC recommendations. There have literally
been _billions_ of vaccine doses given. We've had an enormous sample size,
and nearly a year of testing.
The vaccine is safe. Not just safe, but really, really safe. Your MD sounds
like a quack.
5. Poverty: It's true, as poor people have not as good access to good
healthcare or food, and generally have harder jobs. This is why it's so
important we reach out and get everyone vaccinated.
6. "Will covid become endemic?"
It already is.
If we get 85-90% people vaccinated, however, studies show we can get this
under control.
Immunity from getting covid is shown to be much less than vaccines.
In short: the only way back to normal?
We need everyone vaccinated. It's not going away, and mutating to be less
lethal may take decades.
Ron Blechner
On Thu, Aug 19, 2021, 2:10 PM Weogo Reed via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Hi Liz and All,
I am in no way, shape or form a health expert. At the same time,
I'm reasonably intelligent
and have been reading a lot and asking many questions.
Harvest Moon Folk Society started back dancing at River Falls
Lodge, Greenville County, SC, in July.
The venue is pretty open air except for winter, with big fans moving air.
I no longer run sound there, but that's a separate thing(too much driving).
The Old Farmers Ball group dances in Bryson Gym at Warren Wilson
College, outside Asheville, NC.
The College was supposed to say Monday when outside events like dancing
will open again, and
what precautions will be required. Am waiting to hear what they decided.
The CDC says the biggest risk factor for life-threatening covid is
age.
The second biggest risk factor is obesity. It would be great to see
Public Health helping everybody move toward being healthier.
(Big + for dancing, and singing together is an excellent builder of
social capital!)
I would like to see more information about how Vitamin D can
reduce the risk and severity of covid.
Some evidence points to being poor as being a significant risk
factor. How many of us
on this list are poor? How about we effectively address equity in the US?
Animals can carry covid. From the CDC:
) Companion animals, including pet cats and dogs and one ferret.
) Animals in zoos and sanctuaries, including several types of big cats,
otters, and non-human primates.
) Mink on mink farms.
) Wild white-tailed deer in several U.S. states.
We have covid in domestic and wild animals, and vaccinated people
can spread it.
Will covid become endemic?
My MD says there are a lot of unknowns about the current vaccines.
For anybody who is healthy and under 50, her current recommendation is
don't get it.
Denmark is allowing those who have been vaccinated into the country.
A negative test will also get you in, as well as proof of having covid
and recovering.
Could these be reasonable criteria for dancing and singing?
I'm lucky in being able to eat well and most days be outside some in
the sunshine and fresh air, and have a supply of Ivermectin.
Thanks and good health, Weogo
On 8/16/2021 4:43 PM, Liz Burkhart via Organizers wrote:
Hi all, with some dances resuming for the summer,
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
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23 Aug
23 Aug
3:25 p.m.
Hi Folks,
I'm not on a hill, looking for a fight or intending to harm, insult
or shame anyone.
The best outcome of this exchange is for all of us to be a bit more
educated.
CDC / NIH / FDA:
Historically the CDC and NIH were sources of current, accurate
health information.
Small and low-income countries often used CDC/NIH recommendations
verbatim as their health guidelines.
From what I see today, they appear remarkably slow to acknowledge some
current science.
Vitamin D:
"Several recent studies have looked at the impact of vitamin D on
COVID-19. One study of 489 people found that those who had a vitamin D
deficiency were more likely to test positive for the virus that causes
COVID-19 than people who had normal levels of vitamin D.
Other research has observed high rates of vitamin D deficiency in
people with COVID-19 who experienced acute respiratory failure. These
people had a significantly higher risk of dying. And a small, randomized
study found that of 50 people hospitalized with COVID-19 who were given
a high dose of a type of vitamin D (calcifediol), only one needed
treatment in the intensive care unit. In contrast, among the 26 people
with COVID-19 who weren't given calcifediol, 13 needed to be treated in
the intensive care unit."
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/expert-answers/c…
Note that the current RDA(Recommended Daily Allowance) is for bone health.
For optimal health, it may be more.
From Liz:
"Sunshine and fresh air will not keep you safe."
Partially correct. They can increase your health and improve your
body's covid response.
Sunshine helps your body produce Vitamin D.
Time outside for me generally equals exercise - in the garden,
doing construction, walking/hiking and more.
For the past year and a half, my one gig as a sound person was outside,
providing audio for
the local state university's graduation in May, with everybody masked
and spaced 6'.
Liz wrote:
"And then there's this:
https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/why-you-should-not-use-iverm…
f There's wide evidence the FDA is out of date on their Ivermectin
information.
I suggest reading this website: https://covid19criticalcare.com/
Moderna safety under review:
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-probing-moderna-vaccine-increased-heart…
Deaths from Covid 'incredibly rare' among children:
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01897-w
With an extremely low covid risk for children, and some risk from
any medicine,
Is vaccinating children for covid the wisest choice?
Liz wrote:
"The nation's hospitals are filled with young, otherwise healthy, mostly
unvaccinated
people dying of Covid."
Can you please provide data?
I couldn't find hospitalization data for young, unvaccinated people, but
did find this for deaths, based on age:
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#demographicsovertime
With so few deaths among the young, might it be accurate to say there
aren't that many in hospitals?
Ron wrote:
"We need everyone vaccinated."
Is natural immunity or vaccine-acquired immunity better?
Here's one voice:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/dr-makary-says-natural-immunity-is…
From the BBC today:
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-58270098
There are many points of view to this question, and it may boil down to
what's best for an individual.
I suggest we consider what we really need is for everybody to be
healthy and
have covid immunity, not necessarily vaccination.
For Americans, 42% are obese:
https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/adult.html
Could this be a more significant health issue than covid?
Would you support an effective Public Health campaign for obesity
education and reduction?
Someone I love dearly is morbidly obese.
I remember when he was slim and healthy.
He now has multiple health issues that are known to be caused by
obesity yet says the health issues are causing the obesity.
(May be a bit of both?)
Currently he is taking multiple medications and seeing a psychiatrist that
isn't helping him be healthier, just more drugged.
If I got anything wrong here, please correct me and cite your sources.
Thanks and good health, Weogo
7:37 p.m.
Hi all,
I'm quite far off from the initial email thread topic, but I'd like to
share my perspective on this email thread. I hope that we can end the day
with as many brain cells as we started.
In college, I took a course called, "Climate change, psychology, and human
behavior." In this course, we not only discussed the fundamental science of
climate change, but also methods to communicate these things effectively
with others. Climate change is a massively complex scientific phenomenon,
poses legitimate risk to our lives and livelihoods, and the problem changes
faster than we can understand it. Because of all these things, simply
communicating about climate change is massively difficult, and
communicating effectively is one of the best tools we might have to work
together to face the challenges ahead... Climate change is like the
pandemic.
I love talking about this course - one of the things I learned is that
around these complex topics, so-called "fact-based" debate is not
fact-based at all. So I will not correct Weogo Reed, and I will not cite my
sources. Instead, I will present the following infographic
<https://www.counterhate.com/playbook> from the Center for Countering
Digital Hate (CCDH) about identifying and responding to vaccine
misinformation.
[image: image.png]
1: Don't engage with vaccine disinformation online
2: Don't overreact. Just because you see it, doesn't mean it's widely
believed.
3: Correct vaccine misinformation with family and friends privately.
4: Spread pro-vaccine messages.
5: Get vaccinated and get loud about it.
p.s.
Liz, in response to your initial question, the San Luis Obispo contra dance
had a meeting in May, was planning a tentative start in September, but
we've cancelled September through December. All further dances are to be
determined. I worked as a Covid-19 tester from August 2020 to January 2021,
and my guess is that we'll see the same flu/college/holiday season spike
this winter, and cases will stay high until this spring.
Get your vaccines! The FDA approved the Pfizer vaccine, TODAY
<https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-approves-first-covid-19-vaccine>!
Encourage folks you know to schedule their appointment. If you are reading
this and haven't, or know people who haven't, I encourage you to
reconsider. It's the fastest way we can dance again.
In line with CCDH point 1, I will not respond to this email thread further.
John Little
On Mon, Aug 23, 2021 at 8:25 AM Weogo Reed via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Hi Folks,
I'm not on a hill, looking for a fight or intending to harm, insult
or shame anyone.
The best outcome of this exchange is for all of us to be a bit more
educated.
CDC / NIH / FDA:
Historically the CDC and NIH were sources of current, accurate
health information.
Small and low-income countries often used CDC/NIH recommendations
verbatim as their health guidelines.
From what I see today, they appear remarkably slow to acknowledge some
current science.
Vitamin D:
"Several recent studies have looked at the impact of vitamin D on
COVID-19. One study of 489 people found that those who had a vitamin D
deficiency were more likely to test positive for the virus that causes
COVID-19 than people who had normal levels of vitamin D.
Other research has observed high rates of vitamin D deficiency in
people with COVID-19 who experienced acute respiratory failure. These
people had a significantly higher risk of dying. And a small, randomized
study found that of 50 people hospitalized with COVID-19 who were given
a high dose of a type of vitamin D (calcifediol), only one needed
treatment in the intensive care unit. In contrast, among the 26 people
with COVID-19 who weren't given calcifediol, 13 needed to be treated in
the intensive care unit."
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/expert-answers/c…
Note that the current RDA(Recommended Daily Allowance) is for bone health.
For optimal health, it may be more.
From Liz:
"Sunshine and fresh air will not keep you safe."
Partially correct. They can increase your health and improve your
body's covid response.
Sunshine helps your body produce Vitamin D.
Time outside for me generally equals exercise - in the garden,
doing construction, walking/hiking and more.
For the past year and a half, my one gig as a sound person was outside,
providing audio for
the local state university's graduation in May, with everybody masked
and spaced 6'.
Liz wrote:
"And then there's this:
https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/why-you-should-not-use-iverm…
"
f There's wide evidence the FDA is out of date on their Ivermectin
information.
I suggest reading this website: https://covid19criticalcare.com/
Moderna safety under review:
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-probing-moderna-vaccine-increased-heart…
Deaths from Covid 'incredibly rare' among children:
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01897-w
With an extremely low covid risk for children, and some risk from
any medicine,
Is vaccinating children for covid the wisest choice?
Liz wrote:
"The nation's hospitals are filled with young, otherwise healthy, mostly
unvaccinated
people dying of Covid."
Can you please provide data?
I couldn't find hospitalization data for young, unvaccinated people, but
did find this for deaths, based on age:
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#demographicsovertime
With so few deaths among the young, might it be accurate to say there
aren't that many in hospitals?
Ron wrote:
"We need everyone vaccinated."
Is natural immunity or vaccine-acquired immunity better?
Here's one voice:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/dr-makary-says-natural-immunity-is…
From the BBC today:
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-58270098
There are many points of view to this question, and it may boil down to
what's best for an individual.
I suggest we consider what we really need is for everybody to be
healthy and
have covid immunity, not necessarily vaccination.
For Americans, 42% are obese:
https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/adult.html
Could this be a more significant health issue than covid?
Would you support an effective Public Health campaign for obesity
education and reduction?
Someone I love dearly is morbidly obese.
I remember when he was slim and healthy.
He now has multiple health issues that are known to be caused by
obesity yet says the health issues are causing the obesity.
(May be a bit of both?)
Currently he is taking multiple medications and seeing a psychiatrist that
isn't helping him be healthier, just more drugged.
If I got anything wrong here, please correct me and cite your sources.
Thanks and good health, Weogo
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
9:39 p.m.
Thank you, Weogo, for your thoughtful response and citing your sources so I
can further investigate your perspective. I heard no vaccine hate
rhetoric, just concern and curiosity from your point of view and openness
to other ideas if folks want to present them in a way that supports claims
and opinion.
This is such a divisive and emotionally charged topic, my heart has been
aching over the division being created on so many levels in our society.
I hear your heart of concern and sincerity and the amount of researching
and soul searching you are doing about Covid, and appreciate it. There can
be so many hurtful and unproductive reactions to one another when someone
does not align with our perspective. May we find new ways of hearing and
seeing the humanity in each other.
Yes, good health to all as we trust our wisdom and conscious to guide us,
Terri
On Mon, Aug 23, 2021 at 8:28 AM Weogo Reed via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Hi Folks,
I'm not on a hill, looking for a fight or intending to harm, insult
or shame anyone.
The best outcome of this exchange is for all of us to be a bit more
educated.
CDC / NIH / FDA:
Historically the CDC and NIH were sources of current, accurate
health information.
Small and low-income countries often used CDC/NIH recommendations
verbatim as their health guidelines.
From what I see today, they appear remarkably slow to acknowledge some
current science.
Vitamin D:
"Several recent studies have looked at the impact of vitamin D on
COVID-19. One study of 489 people found that those who had a vitamin D
deficiency were more likely to test positive for the virus that causes
COVID-19 than people who had normal levels of vitamin D.
Other research has observed high rates of vitamin D deficiency in
people with COVID-19 who experienced acute respiratory failure. These
people had a significantly higher risk of dying. And a small, randomized
study found that of 50 people hospitalized with COVID-19 who were given
a high dose of a type of vitamin D (calcifediol), only one needed
treatment in the intensive care unit. In contrast, among the 26 people
with COVID-19 who weren't given calcifediol, 13 needed to be treated in
the intensive care unit."
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/expert-answers/c…
Note that the current RDA(Recommended Daily Allowance) is for bone health.
For optimal health, it may be more.
From Liz:
"Sunshine and fresh air will not keep you safe."
Partially correct. They can increase your health and improve your
body's covid response.
Sunshine helps your body produce Vitamin D.
Time outside for me generally equals exercise - in the garden,
doing construction, walking/hiking and more.
For the past year and a half, my one gig as a sound person was outside,
providing audio for
the local state university's graduation in May, with everybody masked
and spaced 6'.
Liz wrote:
"And then there's this:
https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/why-you-should-not-use-iverm…
"
f There's wide evidence the FDA is out of date on their Ivermectin
information.
I suggest reading this website: https://covid19criticalcare.com/
Moderna safety under review:
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-probing-moderna-vaccine-increased-heart…
Deaths from Covid 'incredibly rare' among children:
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01897-w
With an extremely low covid risk for children, and some risk from
any medicine,
Is vaccinating children for covid the wisest choice?
Liz wrote:
"The nation's hospitals are filled with young, otherwise healthy, mostly
unvaccinated
people dying of Covid."
Can you please provide data?
I couldn't find hospitalization data for young, unvaccinated people, but
did find this for deaths, based on age:
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#demographicsovertime
With so few deaths among the young, might it be accurate to say there
aren't that many in hospitals?
Ron wrote:
"We need everyone vaccinated."
Is natural immunity or vaccine-acquired immunity better?
Here's one voice:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/dr-makary-says-natural-immunity-is…
From the BBC today:
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-58270098
There are many points of view to this question, and it may boil down to
what's best for an individual.
I suggest we consider what we really need is for everybody to be
healthy and
have covid immunity, not necessarily vaccination.
For Americans, 42% are obese:
https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/adult.html
Could this be a more significant health issue than covid?
Would you support an effective Public Health campaign for obesity
education and reduction?
Someone I love dearly is morbidly obese.
I remember when he was slim and healthy.
He now has multiple health issues that are known to be caused by
obesity yet says the health issues are causing the obesity.
(May be a bit of both?)
Currently he is taking multiple medications and seeing a psychiatrist that
isn't helping him be healthier, just more drugged.
If I got anything wrong here, please correct me and cite your sources.
Thanks and good health, Weogo
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
9:42 p.m.
PS I want to add,that I have no issue with vaccines, and have gotten
mine, but I want to honor the perspective of others and appreciate the
opportunity to dialogue about the differences not argue.
On Mon, Aug 23, 2021 at 2:39 PM Terri Widergren <twidgal(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Thank you, Weogo, for your thoughtful response and
citing your sources so
I can further investigate your perspective. I heard no vaccine hate
rhetoric, just concern and curiosity from your point of view and openness
to other ideas if folks want to present them in a way that supports claims
and opinion.
This is such a divisive and emotionally charged topic, my heart has been
aching over the division being created on so many levels in our society.
I hear your heart of concern and sincerity and the amount of researching
and soul searching you are doing about Covid, and appreciate it. There can
be so many hurtful and unproductive reactions to one another when someone
does not align with our perspective. May we find new ways of hearing and
seeing the humanity in each other.
Yes, good health to all as we trust our wisdom and conscious to guide us,
Terri
On Mon, Aug 23, 2021 at 8:28 AM Weogo Reed via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Hi Folks,
I'm not on a hill, looking for a fight or intending to harm, insult
or shame anyone.
The best outcome of this exchange is for all of us to be a bit more
educated.
CDC / NIH / FDA:
Historically the CDC and NIH were sources of current, accurate
health information.
Small and low-income countries often used CDC/NIH recommendations
verbatim as their health guidelines.
From what I see today, they appear remarkably slow to acknowledge some
current science.
Vitamin D:
"Several recent studies have looked at the impact of vitamin D on
COVID-19. One study of 489 people found that those who had a vitamin D
deficiency were more likely to test positive for the virus that causes
COVID-19 than people who had normal levels of vitamin D.
Other research has observed high rates of vitamin D deficiency in
people with COVID-19 who experienced acute respiratory failure. These
people had a significantly higher risk of dying. And a small, randomized
study found that of 50 people hospitalized with COVID-19 who were given
a high dose of a type of vitamin D (calcifediol), only one needed
treatment in the intensive care unit. In contrast, among the 26 people
with COVID-19 who weren't given calcifediol, 13 needed to be treated in
the intensive care unit."
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/expert-answers/c…
Note that the current RDA(Recommended Daily Allowance) is for bone health.
For optimal health, it may be more.
From Liz:
"Sunshine and fresh air will not keep you safe."
Partially correct. They can increase your health and improve your
body's covid response.
Sunshine helps your body produce Vitamin D.
Time outside for me generally equals exercise - in the garden,
doing construction, walking/hiking and more.
For the past year and a half, my one gig as a sound person was outside,
providing audio for
the local state university's graduation in May, with everybody masked
and spaced 6'.
Liz wrote:
"And then there's this:
https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/why-you-should-not-use-iverm…
"
f There's wide evidence the FDA is out of date on their Ivermectin
information.
I suggest reading this website: https://covid19criticalcare.com/
Moderna safety under review:
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-probing-moderna-vaccine-increased-heart…
Deaths from Covid 'incredibly rare' among children:
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01897-w
With an extremely low covid risk for children, and some risk from
any medicine,
Is vaccinating children for covid the wisest choice?
Liz wrote:
"The nation's hospitals are filled with young, otherwise healthy, mostly
unvaccinated
people dying of Covid."
Can you please provide data?
I couldn't find hospitalization data for young, unvaccinated people, but
did find this for deaths, based on age:
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#demographicsovertime
With so few deaths among the young, might it be accurate to say there
aren't that many in hospitals?
Ron wrote:
"We need everyone vaccinated."
Is natural immunity or vaccine-acquired immunity better?
Here's one voice:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/dr-makary-says-natural-immunity-is…
From the BBC today:
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-58270098
There are many points of view to this question, and it may boil down to
what's best for an individual.
I suggest we consider what we really need is for everybody to be
healthy and
have covid immunity, not necessarily vaccination.
For Americans, 42% are obese:
https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/adult.html
Could this be a more significant health issue than covid?
Would you support an effective Public Health campaign for obesity
education and reduction?
Someone I love dearly is morbidly obese.
I remember when he was slim and healthy.
He now has multiple health issues that are known to be caused by
obesity yet says the health issues are causing the obesity.
(May be a bit of both?)
Currently he is taking multiple medications and seeing a psychiatrist that
isn't helping him be healthier, just more drugged.
If I got anything wrong here, please correct me and cite your
sources.
Thanks and good health, Weogo
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
10:27 p.m.
Hey, know what's really shitty?
When an autistic person tells you that something harms them - in this case,
vaccine skepticism - and then rather than pause, listen, and reconsider,
instead you deny what they've said.
I'm not going to dignify Weogo or Terri's replies, but I won't be silenced
by them.
On Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 5:47 PM Terri Widergren via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
PS I want to add,that I have no issue with vaccines,
and have gotten
mine, but I want to honor the perspective of others and appreciate the
opportunity to dialogue about the differences not argue.
On Mon, Aug 23, 2021 at 2:39 PM Terri Widergren <twidgal(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Thank you, Weogo, for your thoughtful response
and citing your sources so
I can further investigate your perspective. I heard no vaccine hate
rhetoric, just concern and curiosity from your point of view and openness
to other ideas if folks want to present them in a way that supports claims
and opinion.
This is such a divisive and emotionally charged topic, my heart has been
aching over the division being created on so many levels in our society.
I hear your heart of concern and sincerity and the amount of researching
and soul searching you are doing about Covid, and appreciate it. There can
be so many hurtful and unproductive reactions to one another when someone
does not align with our perspective. May we find new ways of hearing and
seeing the humanity in each other.
Yes, good health to all as we trust our wisdom and conscious to guide us,
Terri
On Mon, Aug 23, 2021 at 8:28 AM Weogo Reed via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Organizers mailing list --
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
Hi Folks,
I'm not on a hill, looking for a fight or intending to harm, insult
or shame anyone.
The best outcome of this exchange is for all of us to be a bit more
educated.
CDC / NIH / FDA:
Historically the CDC and NIH were sources of current, accurate
health information.
Small and low-income countries often used CDC/NIH recommendations
verbatim as their health guidelines.
From what I see today, they appear remarkably slow to acknowledge some
current science.
Vitamin D:
"Several recent studies have looked at the impact of vitamin D on
COVID-19. One study of 489 people found that those who had a vitamin D
deficiency were more likely to test positive for the virus that causes
COVID-19 than people who had normal levels of vitamin D.
Other research has observed high rates of vitamin D deficiency in
people with COVID-19 who experienced acute respiratory failure. These
people had a significantly higher risk of dying. And a small, randomized
study found that of 50 people hospitalized with COVID-19 who were given
a high dose of a type of vitamin D (calcifediol), only one needed
treatment in the intensive care unit. In contrast, among the 26 people
with COVID-19 who weren't given calcifediol, 13 needed to be treated in
the intensive care unit."
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/expert-answers/c…
Note that the current RDA(Recommended Daily Allowance) is for bone
health.
For optimal health, it may be more.
From Liz:
"Sunshine and fresh air will not keep you safe."
Partially correct. They can increase your health and improve your
body's covid response.
Sunshine helps your body produce Vitamin D.
Time outside for me generally equals exercise - in the garden,
doing construction, walking/hiking and more.
For the past year and a half, my one gig as a sound person was outside,
providing audio for
the local state university's graduation in May, with everybody masked
and spaced 6'.
Liz wrote:
"And then there's this:
https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/why-you-should-not-use-iverm…
"
f There's wide evidence the FDA is out of date on their Ivermectin
information.
I suggest reading this website: https://covid19criticalcare.com/
Moderna safety under review:
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-probing-moderna-vaccine-increased-heart…
Deaths from Covid 'incredibly rare' among children:
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01897-w
With an extremely low covid risk for children, and some risk from
any medicine,
Is vaccinating children for covid the wisest choice?
Liz wrote:
"The nation's hospitals are filled with young, otherwise healthy, mostly
unvaccinated
people dying of Covid."
Can you please provide data?
I couldn't find hospitalization data for young, unvaccinated people, but
did find this for deaths, based on age:
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#demographicsovertime
With so few deaths among the young, might it be accurate to say there
aren't that many in hospitals?
Ron wrote:
"We need everyone vaccinated."
Is natural immunity or vaccine-acquired immunity better?
Here's one voice:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/dr-makary-says-natural-immunity-is…
From the BBC today:
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-58270098
There are many points of view to this question, and it may boil down to
what's best for an individual.
I suggest we consider what we really need is for everybody to be
healthy and
have covid immunity, not necessarily vaccination.
For Americans, 42% are obese:
https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/adult.html
Could this be a more significant health issue than covid?
Would you support an effective Public Health campaign for obesity
education and reduction?
Someone I love dearly is morbidly obese.
I remember when he was slim and healthy.
He now has multiple health issues that are known to be caused by
obesity yet says the health issues are causing the obesity.
(May be a bit of both?)
Currently he is taking multiple medications and seeing a psychiatrist
that
isn't helping him be healthier, just more drugged.
If I got anything wrong here, please correct me and cite your
sources.
Thanks and good health, Weogo
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
_______________________________________________ 
10:36 p.m.
Hi folks,
It's time to bring this conversation back to organizing dances. There are a lot of
places on line to discuss covid, and I'd prefer that this not become one of them.
Seth
On Aug 23, 2021, at 6:27 PM, Ron Blechner via
Organizers <organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Hey, know what's really shitty?
When an autistic person tells you that something harms them - in this case, vaccine
skepticism - and then rather than pause, listen, and reconsider, instead you deny what
they've said.
I'm not going to dignify Weogo or Terri's replies, but I won't be silenced by
them.
On Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 5:47 PM Terri Widergren via Organizers
<organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net <mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>>
wrote:
PS I want to add,that I have no issue with vaccines, and have gotten mine, but I want
to honor the perspective of others and appreciate the opportunity to dialogue about the
differences not argue.
On Mon, Aug 23, 2021 at 2:39 PM Terri Widergren <twidgal(a)gmail.com
<mailto:twidgal@gmail.com>> wrote:
Thank you, Weogo, for your thoughtful response and citing your sources so I can further
investigate your perspective. I heard no vaccine hate rhetoric, just concern and
curiosity from your point of view and openness to other ideas if folks want to present
them in a way that supports claims and opinion.
This is such a divisive and emotionally charged topic, my heart has been aching over the
division being created on so many levels in our society. I hear your heart of concern
and sincerity and the amount of researching and soul searching you are doing about Covid,
and appreciate it. There can be so many hurtful and unproductive reactions to one another
when someone does not align with our perspective. May we find new ways of hearing and
seeing the humanity in each other.
Yes, good health to all as we trust our wisdom and conscious to guide us,
Terri
On Mon, Aug 23, 2021 at 8:28 AM Weogo Reed via Organizers
<organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net <mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>>
wrote:
Hi Folks,
I'm not on a hill, looking for a fight or intending to harm, insult
or shame anyone.
The best outcome of this exchange is for all of us to be a bit more
educated.
CDC / NIH / FDA:
Historically the CDC and NIH were sources of current, accurate
health information.
Small and low-income countries often used CDC/NIH recommendations
verbatim as their health guidelines.
From what I see today, they appear remarkably slow to acknowledge some
current science.
Vitamin D:
"Several recent studies have looked at the impact of vitamin D on
COVID-19. One study of 489 people found that those who had a vitamin D
deficiency were more likely to test positive for the virus that causes
COVID-19 than people who had normal levels of vitamin D.
Other research has observed high rates of vitamin D deficiency in
people with COVID-19 who experienced acute respiratory failure. These
people had a significantly higher risk of dying. And a small, randomized
study found that of 50 people hospitalized with COVID-19 who were given
a high dose of a type of vitamin D (calcifediol), only one needed
treatment in the intensive care unit. In contrast, among the 26 people
with COVID-19 who weren't given calcifediol, 13 needed to be treated in
the intensive care unit."
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/expert-answers/c…
<https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/expert-answers/coronavirus-and-vitamin-d/faq-20493088>
Note that the current RDA(Recommended Daily Allowance) is for bone health.
For optimal health, it may be more.
From Liz:
"Sunshine and fresh air will not keep you safe."
Partially correct. They can increase your health and improve your
body's covid response.
Sunshine helps your body produce Vitamin D.
Time outside for me generally equals exercise - in the garden,
doing construction, walking/hiking and more.
For the past year and a half, my one gig as a sound person was outside,
providing audio for
the local state university's graduation in May, with everybody masked
and spaced 6'.
Liz wrote:
"And then there's this:
https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/why-you-should-not-use-iverm…
<https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/why-you-should-not-use-ivermectin-treat-or-prevent-covid-19>"
f There's wide evidence the FDA is out of date on their Ivermectin
information.
I suggest reading this website: https://covid19criticalcare.com/
<https://covid19criticalcare.com/>
Moderna safety under review:
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-probing-moderna-vaccine-increased-heart…
<https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-probing-moderna-vaccine-increased-heart-inflammation-risk-washington-post-2021-08-20/>
Deaths from Covid 'incredibly rare' among children:
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01897-w
<https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01897-w>
With an extremely low covid risk for children, and some risk from
any medicine,
Is vaccinating children for covid the wisest choice?
Liz wrote:
"The nation's hospitals are filled with young, otherwise healthy, mostly
unvaccinated
people dying of Covid."
Can you please provide data?
I couldn't find hospitalization data for young, unvaccinated people, but
did find this for deaths, based on age:
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#demographicsovertime
<https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#demographicsovertime>
With so few deaths among the young, might it be accurate to say there
aren't that many in hospitals?
Ron wrote:
"We need everyone vaccinated."
Is natural immunity or vaccine-acquired immunity better?
Here's one voice:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/dr-makary-says-natural-immunity-is…
<https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/dr-makary-says-natural-immunity-is-more-effective-then-vaccine-immunity/ar-AAMX3sM>
From the BBC today:
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-58270098
<https://www.bbc.com/news/health-58270098>
There are many points of view to this question, and it may boil down to
what's best for an individual.
I suggest we consider what we really need is for everybody to be
healthy and
have covid immunity, not necessarily vaccination.
For Americans, 42% are obese:
https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/adult.html
<https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/adult.html>
Could this be a more significant health issue than covid?
Would you support an effective Public Health campaign for obesity
education and reduction?
Someone I love dearly is morbidly obese.
I remember when he was slim and healthy.
He now has multiple health issues that are known to be caused by
obesity yet says the health issues are causing the obesity.
(May be a bit of both?)
Currently he is taking multiple medications and seeing a psychiatrist that
isn't helping him be healthier, just more drugged.
If I got anything wrong here, please correct me and cite your sources.
Thanks and good health, Weogo
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
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11:10 p.m.
Seth,
While we all prefer staying on topic and avoiding unnecessary conflict,
I would respectively suggest that today, organizing contra dances IS a
discussion of COVID.
The most we can do in this discussion of to attempt to remain
respectful. Again, unfortunately, that cannot be applied to being
respectful towards disinformation.
"You're wrong, and your information is dangerous." Awfully hard to
remain respectful. In fact, it is irresponsible NOT to call it out.
Would you be respectful of racist or misogynist statements?
These are difficult times, but as organizers we must protect our
communities. We do not serve our communities by being polite to
irresponsible disinformation.
Mac Sloan
On 8/23/21 18:36, Seth Seeger via Organizers wrote:
Hi folks,
It's time to bring this conversation back to organizing dances. There
are a lot of places on line to discuss covid, and I'd prefer that this
not become one of them.
Seth
--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com
On Aug 23, 2021, at 6:27 PM, Ron Blechner via
Organizers
<organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>> wrote:
Hey, know what's really shitty?
When an autistic person tells you that something harms them - in this
case, vaccine skepticism - and then rather than pause, listen, and
reconsider, instead you deny what they've said.
I'm not going to dignify Weogo or Terri's replies, but I won't be
silenced by them.
On Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 5:47 PM Terri Widergren via Organizers
<organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>> wrote:
PS I want to add,that I have no issue with vaccines, and have
gotten mine, but I want to honor the perspective of others and
appreciate the opportunity to dialogue about the differences not
argue.
On Mon, Aug 23, 2021 at 2:39 PM Terri Widergren <twidgal(a)gmail.com
<mailto:twidgal@gmail.com>> wrote:
Thank you, Weogo, for your thoughtful response and citing your
sources so I can further investigate your perspective. I
heard no vaccine hate rhetoric, just concern and curiosity
from your point of view and openness to other ideas if folks
want to present them in a way that supports claims and opinion.
This is such a divisive and emotionally charged topic, my
heart has been aching over the division being created on so
many levels in our society. I hear your heart of concern and
sincerity and the amount of researching and soul searching you
are doing about Covid, and appreciate it. There can be so
many hurtful and unproductive reactions to one another when
someone does not align with our perspective. May we find new
ways of hearing and seeing the humanity in each other.
Yes, good health to all as we trust our wisdom and conscious
to guide us,
Terri
On Mon, Aug 23, 2021 at 8:28 AM Weogo Reed via Organizers
<organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>> wrote:
Hi Folks,
I'm not on a hill, looking for a fight or intending
to harm, insult
or shame anyone.
The best outcome of this exchange is for all of us to be a
bit more
educated.
CDC / NIH / FDA:
Historically the CDC and NIH were sources of current,
accurate
health information.
Small and low-income countries often used CDC/NIH
recommendations
verbatim as their health guidelines.
From what I see today, they appear remarkably slow to
acknowledge some
current science.
Vitamin D:
"Several recent studies have looked at the impact of
vitamin D on
COVID-19. One study of 489 people found that those who had
a vitamin D
deficiency were more likely to test positive for the virus
that causes
COVID-19 than people who had normal levels of vitamin D.
Other research has observed high rates of vitamin D
deficiency in
people with COVID-19 who experienced acute respiratory
failure. These
people had a significantly higher risk of dying. And a
small, randomized
study found that of 50 people hospitalized with COVID-19
who were given
a high dose of a type of vitamin D (calcifediol), only one
needed
treatment in the intensive care unit. In contrast, among
the 26 people
with COVID-19 who weren't given calcifediol, 13 needed to
be treated in
the intensive care unit."
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/expert-answers/c…
<https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/expert-answers/coronavirus-and-vitamin-d/faq-20493088>
Note that the current RDA(Recommended Daily Allowance) is
for bone health.
For optimal health, it may be more.
From Liz:
"Sunshine and fresh air will not keep you safe."
Partially correct. They can increase your health and
improve your
body's covid response.
Sunshine helps your body produce Vitamin D.
Time outside for me generally equals exercise - in
the garden,
doing construction, walking/hiking and more.
For the past year and a half, my one gig as a sound person
was outside,
providing audio for
the local state university's graduation in May, with
everybody masked
and spaced 6'.
Liz wrote:
"And then there's this:
https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/why-you-should-not-use-iverm…
<https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/why-you-should-not-use-ivermectin-treat-or-prevent-covid-19>"
f There's wide evidence the FDA is out of date on their
Ivermectin
information.
I suggest reading this website:
https://covid19criticalcare.com/
<https://covid19criticalcare.com/>
Moderna safety under review:
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-probing-moderna-vaccine-increased-heart…
<https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-probing-moderna-vaccine-increased-heart-inflammation-risk-washington-post-2021-08-20/>
Deaths from Covid 'incredibly rare' among children:
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01897-w
<https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01897-w>
With an extremely low covid risk for children, and
some risk from
any medicine,
Is vaccinating children for covid the wisest choice?
Liz wrote:
"The nation's hospitals are filled with young, otherwise
healthy, mostly
unvaccinated
people dying of Covid."
Can you please provide data?
I couldn't find hospitalization data for young,
unvaccinated people, but
did find this for deaths, based on age:
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#demographicsovertime
<https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#demographicsovertime>
With so few deaths among the young, might it be accurate
to say there
aren't that many in hospitals?
Ron wrote:
"We need everyone vaccinated."
Is natural immunity or vaccine-acquired immunity better?
Here's one voice:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/dr-makary-says-natural-immunity-is…
<https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/dr-makary-says-natural-immunity-is-more-effective-then-vaccine-immunity/ar-AAMX3sM>
From the BBC today:
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-58270098
<https://www.bbc.com/news/health-58270098>
There are many points of view to this question, and it may
boil down to
what's best for an individual.
I suggest we consider what we really need is for
everybody to be
healthy and
have covid immunity, not necessarily vaccination.
For Americans, 42% are obese:
https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/adult.html
<https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/adult.html>
Could this be a more significant health issue than covid?
Would you support an effective Public Health campaign for
obesity
education and reduction?
Someone I love dearly is morbidly obese.
I remember when he was slim and healthy.
He now has multiple health issues that are known to be
caused by
obesity yet says the health issues are causing the obesity.
(May be a bit of both?)
Currently he is taking multiple medications and seeing a
psychiatrist that
isn't helping him be healthier, just more drugged.
If I got anything wrong here, please correct me and
cite your sources.
Thanks and good health, Weogo
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list --
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>
To unsubscribe send an email to
organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers-leave@lists.sharedweight.net>
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>
To unsubscribe send an email to
organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers-leave@lists.sharedweight.net>
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<mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>
To unsubscribe send an email to
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<mailto:organizers-leave@lists.sharedweight.net>
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11:21 p.m.
In Michigan, Bay City Travelers in Traverse Bay area, the Lansing communities are both
closed through November. At this time Kalamazoo and Grand Rapids have closed through
October but we may extend through November as we are in High zone.
Laurie Pietravalle
~ When I dance, I cannot judge, I cannot hate, I cannot separate myself from life. I can
only be joyful and whole, that is why I dance. ~Hans Bos~ ~
On Monday, August 23, 2021, 07:10:14 PM EDT, Walker Sloan via Organizers
<organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Seth,
While we all prefer staying on topic and avoiding unnecessary conflict,
I would respectively suggest that today, organizing contra dances IS a
discussion of COVID.
The most we can do in this discussion of to attempt to remain
respectful. Again, unfortunately, that cannot be applied to being
respectful towards disinformation.
"You're wrong, and your information is dangerous." Awfully hard to
remain respectful. In fact, it is irresponsible NOT to call it out.
Would you be respectful of racist or misogynist statements?
These are difficult times, but as organizers we must protect our
communities. We do not serve our communities by being polite to
irresponsible disinformation.
Mac Sloan
On 8/23/21 18:36, Seth Seeger via Organizers wrote:
Hi folks,
It's time to bring this conversation back to organizing dances. There
are a lot of places on line to discuss covid, and I'd prefer that this
not become one of them.
Seth
--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
On Aug 23, 2021, at 6:27 PM, Ron Blechner via
Organizers
<organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>> wrote:
Hey, know what's really shitty?
When an autistic person tells you that something harms them - in this
case, vaccine skepticism - and then rather than pause, listen, and
reconsider, instead you deny what they've said.
I'm not going to dignify Weogo or Terri's replies, but I won't be
silenced by them.
On Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 5:47 PM Terri Widergren via Organizers
<organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>> wrote:
PS I want to add,that I have no issue with vaccines, and have
gotten mine, but I want to honor the perspective of others and
appreciate the opportunity to dialogue about the differences not
argue.
On Mon, Aug 23, 2021 at 2:39 PM Terri Widergren <twidgal(a)gmail.com
<mailto:twidgal@gmail.com>> wrote:
Thank you, Weogo, for your thoughtful response and citing your
sources so I can further investigate your perspective. I
heard no vaccine hate rhetoric, just concern and curiosity
from your point of view and openness to other ideas if folks
want to present them in a way that supports claims and opinion.
This is such a divisive and emotionally charged topic, my
heart has been aching over the division being created on so
many levels in our society. I hear your heart of concern and
sincerity and the amount of researching and soul searching you
are doing about Covid, and appreciate it. There can be so
many hurtful and unproductive reactions to one another when
someone does not align with our perspective. May we find new
ways of hearing and seeing the humanity in each other.
Yes, good health to all as we trust our wisdom and conscious
to guide us,
Terri
On Mon, Aug 23, 2021 at 8:28 AM Weogo Reed via Organizers
<organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>> wrote:
Hi Folks,
I'm not on a hill, looking for a fight or intending
to harm, insult
or shame anyone.
The best outcome of this exchange is for all of us to be a
bit more
educated.
CDC / NIH / FDA:
Historically the CDC and NIH were sources of current,
accurate
health information.
Small and low-income countries often used CDC/NIH
recommendations
verbatim as their health guidelines.
From what I see today, they appear remarkably slow to
acknowledge some
current science.
Vitamin D:
"Several recent studies have looked at the impact of
vitamin D on
COVID-19. One study of 489 people found that those who had
a vitamin D
deficiency were more likely to test positive for the virus
that causes
COVID-19 than people who had normal levels of vitamin D.
Other research has observed high rates of vitamin D
deficiency in
people with COVID-19 who experienced acute respiratory
failure. These
people had a significantly higher risk of dying. And a
small, randomized
study found that of 50 people hospitalized with COVID-19
who were given
a high dose of a type of vitamin D (calcifediol), only one
needed
treatment in the intensive care unit. In contrast, among
the 26 people
with COVID-19 who weren't given calcifediol, 13 needed to
be treated in
the intensive care unit."
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/expert-answers/c…
<https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/expert-answers/coronavirus-and-vitamin-d/faq-20493088>
Note that the current RDA(Recommended Daily Allowance) is
for bone health.
For optimal health, it may be more.
From Liz:
"Sunshine and fresh air will not keep you safe."
Partially correct. They can increase your health and
improve your
body's covid response.
Sunshine helps your body produce Vitamin D.
Time outside for me generally equals exercise - in
the garden,
doing construction, walking/hiking and more.
For the past year and a half, my one gig as a sound person
was outside,
providing audio for
the local state university's graduation in May, with
everybody masked
and spaced 6'.
Liz wrote:
"And then there's this:
https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/why-you-should-not-use-iverm…
<https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/why-you-should-not-use-ivermectin-treat-or-prevent-covid-19>"
f There's wide evidence the FDA is out of date on their
Ivermectin
information.
I suggest reading this website:
https://covid19criticalcare.com/
<https://covid19criticalcare.com/>
Moderna safety under review:
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-probing-moderna-vaccine-increased-heart…
<https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-probing-moderna-vaccine-increased-heart-inflammation-risk-washington-post-2021-08-20/>
Deaths from Covid 'incredibly rare' among children:
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01897-w
<https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01897-w>
With an extremely low covid risk for children, and
some risk from
any medicine,
Is vaccinating children for covid the wisest choice?
Liz wrote:
"The nation's hospitals are filled with young, otherwise
healthy, mostly
unvaccinated
people dying of Covid."
Can you please provide data?
I couldn't find hospitalization data for young,
unvaccinated people, but
did find this for deaths, based on age:
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#demographicsovertime
<https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#demographicsovertime>
With so few deaths among the young, might it be accurate
to say there
aren't that many in hospitals?
Ron wrote:
"We need everyone vaccinated."
Is natural immunity or vaccine-acquired immunity better?
Here's one voice:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/dr-makary-says-natural-immunity-is…
<https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/dr-makary-says-natural-immunity-is-more-effective-then-vaccine-immunity/ar-AAMX3sM>
From the BBC today:
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-58270098
<https://www.bbc.com/news/health-58270098>
There are many points of view to this question, and it may
boil down to
what's best for an individual.
I suggest we consider what we really need is for
everybody to be
healthy and
have covid immunity, not necessarily vaccination.
For Americans, 42% are obese:
https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/adult.html
<https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/adult.html>
Could this be a more significant health issue than covid?
Would you support an effective Public Health campaign for
obesity
education and reduction?
Someone I love dearly is morbidly obese.
I remember when he was slim and healthy.
He now has multiple health issues that are known to be
caused by
obesity yet says the health issues are causing the obesity.
(May be a bit of both?)
Currently he is taking multiple medications and seeing a
psychiatrist that
isn't helping him be healthier, just more drugged.
If I got anything wrong here, please correct me and
cite your sources.
Thanks and good health, Weogo
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list --
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>
To unsubscribe send an email to
organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers-leave@lists.sharedweight.net>
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<mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>
To unsubscribe send an email to
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<mailto:organizers-leave@lists.sharedweight.net>
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<mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>
To unsubscribe send an email to
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25 Aug
25 Aug
5:58 a.m.
New subject: Vitamin D and Contra Dancing
Hi Everyone,
Some basic info about vitamin D. [In my other non-dancing life, I am a nutritionist -- a
livestock nutritionist with a PhD from Cornell in Animal Nutrition.] The last time I
looked, people -- at least most of them, including contra dancers -- have metabolic
systems that are similar to other mammals.
A lot of health claims are attributed to vitamin D. There are some good reasons for this,
because Vitamin D is not a true vitamin; it's actually a hormone hiding under the
vitamin moniker. And very powerful in its actions. The precursor to vitamin D is made in
the skin by the application of ultraviolet light, usually from the sun. It's also
absorbed from animal-based foods as vitamin D3. And from plant-based foods as vitamin D2.
Either way, all these molecules travel to the liver where they are all changed into 25-D
which is the form tested medically for blood levels. Then 25-D goes to the kidney where it
is converted to 1,25-D which is the actual active molecule (technically named
1,25-dihydroxycalciferol). This form is relatively short-lived in the blood which is why
it is not the actual test for vitamin D. Then 1,25-D is carried to all the cells in the
body where it does some heavy-duty tasks. This 1,25-D enters the cell and through a
complex series of steps, enters the nucleus where it affects the DNA. It acts like a
toggle switch to turn on or turn off genes -- more than a thousand different genes --
which affect dozens of metabolic pathways. Some include calcium absorption and metabolism
which influences bone density, of course; some involve the production of anti-microbial
compounds; some involve the control of cell growth; some involve the release of cytokines
which are small messenger molecules, etc. Importantly, the cytokines are deeply involved
in the immunological responses to diseases. And vitamin D affects many other metabolic
systems.
Traditionally, the recommended nutritional levels of vitamin D were designed to prevent
rickets (and the adult version, osteomalacia) and also osteoporosis. But that was the
minimum. Recommended levels (Dietary Reference Intakes, DRI) have increased in recent
years as we've learned more about vitamin D and its importance. DRI levels now are in
the range of 600-800 IU per day, depending on age (of the person, not of the bottle of
vitamins). Frankly, I think these are still on the low side, so personally I routinely
take a daily dose of 2,000 IU, and my blood levels of 25-D are in the middle of the normal
range. In reality, most people are generally mildly-to-strongly deficient in vitamin D,
primarily because during the day they wear clothes and hats and apply sunscreen. OTOH,
lots of sun has a very strong tendency to lead to skin cancers. Ask any dermatologist. So
a pill containing vitamin D is a rational technique, although megadoses are not
recommended.
Yes, vitamin D is involved with the immune system, but it is not a treatment against
viruses. It's a nutrient. Obtaining enough of it is a good thing, and it will help
maintain the immune system to its functionality. But vitamin D is not a drug or a
vaccine.
But how can we, as dancers and dance organizers, use this information to our benefit? In a
humble attempt to contribute constructively to this discussion as well as set a few
records straight, here are some practical suggestions:
* Dance contras and squares outdoors with no clothes on.
* Do a lot of dancing because this word begins with the letter "D".
* Never use sunblock when you dance indoors.
* Eat highly bleached grass hay because it will have high levels of vitamin D2.
* Always dance full heys rather than half-heys because a full 16-count "hay" can
have twice as much vitamin D.
* During the break, always go outdoors and sit in the sun. If there is no sun, especially
at night, sit under a heat lamp and make believe it's the sun.
* Don't eat any polar bear livers during the break because these can have toxic levels
of vitamin A, and A is only three letters away from D.
In the hope of dancing together again before 2026,
Woody
--
Woody Lane
Caller, Percussive Dancer
Roseburg, Oregon
________________________________
On 8/23/2021 8:25 AM, Weogo Reed via Organizers wrote:
Vitamin D:
"Several recent studies have looked at the impact of vitamin D on
COVID-19. One study of 489 people found that those who had a vitamin D
deficiency were more likely to test positive for the virus that causes
COVID-19 than people who had normal levels of vitamin D.
Other research has observed high rates of vitamin D deficiency in
people with COVID-19 who experienced acute respiratory failure. These
people had a significantly higher risk of dying. And a small, randomized
study found that of 50 people hospitalized with COVID-19 who were given
a high dose of a type of vitamin D (calcifediol), only one needed
treatment in the intensive care unit. In contrast, among the 26 people
with COVID-19 who weren't given calcifediol, 13 needed to be treated in
the intensive care unit."
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/expert-answers/c…
Note that the current RDA(Recommended Daily Allowance) is for bone health.
For optimal health, it may be more.
From Liz:
"Sunshine and fresh air will not keep you safe."
Partially correct. They can increase your health and improve your
body's covid response.
Sunshine helps your body produce Vitamin D.
Time outside for me generally equals exercise - in the garden,
doing construction, walking/hiking and more.
For the past year and a half, my one gig as a sound person was outside,
providing audio for
the local state university's graduation in May, with everybody masked
and spaced 6'.
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27 comments
21 participants
participants (21)
-
CARMEN DOERGE -
David Kirchner -
John Little -
Kimberly S Hagen -
Laur -
LAWRENCE KOPLIK -
Lisa Brown -
Lisa Marie Lunt -
Liz Burkhart -
lsturgen＠aol.com -
Mary Jean Regoli -
Peter K Martel -
Ron Blechner -
Sarah Gowan -
Seth Seeger -
Steve Pike -
Terri Widergren -
Walker Sloan -
Weogo Reed -
Winston, Alan P. -
Woody Lane