Oops, to clarify: I meant HTDS has been dancing since June 2021 (not 2020). :) Renée

The US is very divided on how much covid is still seen to be a problem, and in many dance communities this has been pretty acrimonious. Jeff On Mon, Oct 3, 2022, 4:29 PM John Sweeney via Organizers < organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; wrote:

Increasingly Covid-19 is like car accidents, cancer, and the flu. It's an important risk that should be managed. We want to do the things that make sense, bypass the rituals that don't, and choose how far on the spectrum we want to go of risk-aversion versus having some fun. As community leaders, it's important to be careful to let people speak, but to not get swept up in it ourselves. Any time we feel a strong urge to go stick it to someone, we should remember that everyone else is already thinking it, anyway. It's very destabilizing to push a pendulum extremely hard the opposite way it's currently moving, because a pendulum naturally always has forces pulling it back toward its center. To keep our dances coherent, it is best we dampen these forces rather than add more energy into an already excitable system. I'll say no more on that aspect. In the more objective part of the problem before us, several factors are changing, and Covid is much more manageable than it used to be. Immunity is widespread, in part because so very many people have simply caught the disease. The U.S. is now just shy of 100M cumulative reported cases; some of these are repeats, but that's more than a fourth of the registered population. About 80% have had at least one vaccine shot, and IIUC, that's 80% of the whole population, not 80% of the eligible population. Treatment is better than ever, including drugs, methods, and hospital bandwidth. Eradication is at this time impossible; the ship has sailed. We've been above 200 cases/day for over a year, and there's no reason to believe eradication is an achievable goal. I'm giving broad strokes here; please, organizers, consider your own key metrics and check on how they are doing today, if you haven't in a while. Finally, while dance leaders are community leaders, and thus pivotal for public health, there's also an element of letting people choose what makes sense for them. If every institution spends all its time working on public health, then cumulatively all that humanity will do is to work on public health--a pretty sterile existence for us all to look forward to! Within the bounds of reasonable public health guidance, as exemplified by the CDC web site, it can be good to focus on what is special about the organizations this list is about: how to accommodate the most number of people possible having a good experience with dancing, for all the aspects of "good experience" including health as just one of them. Contra dance is, without exaggeration, an incredible institution for giving people a reason to really live, rather than just to exist. It's an important role. The dances I see opening up are generally taking this approach nowadays. While I haven't specifically been to a contra dance since the lockdowns, I've been to 3-4 other Atlanta dances and to one dance in San Francisco. I often see instructors, bartenders, and other key staff wearing masks--the people who are in the face of >100 customers over the course of the night. I'm not sure that would apply to a contra dance caller, since they're usually on stage, except during the lesson portion at the beginning. Also, I'm seeing a lot of posted vaccination policies, but I don't remember seeing the policy enforced beyond the honor system. The policies insist on vaccination, and will sometimes allow same-day testing--the same things I'm seeing on this thread so far. People are strongly encouraged to stay out of the dance if sick, without any clarification of what "sick" means. Dancing with a mask really does go fine. I've been surprised. I still usually don't wear one, because the ones I have hurt my ears, and because I'm less verbal than most and rely more than most on facial expressions. I draw exceptions and wear a mask, though, if someone close to me is about to receive an intensive medical treatment, or if they're about to visit an immunocompromised relative. I give these as examples of how personal an effective choice about Covid-19 can be. Unlike when the pandemic started, when a simple "no, are you crazy?" was a sufficient way to evaluate the parameters, in today's environment, the aspects are nuanced and personal. I daresay, the strongest possible contribution that a dance organizers can make right now is to help people make these decisions effectively, while avoiding the wild seesaw of posturing-based decisions. I would wish for contra dances to follow the same general approach as these other dances that are opening up. We can think of it similar to flexible donation amounts, or to instructions about personal space. We give dancers a framework for thinking about it, and then trust but verify their behavior. This is different from doing nothing, from having no policy at all! Rather, it can be more like how we internally coach the next generation of callers, musicians, and dancers. We embrace the nuance and are very strong at guiding each other gently, within a general framework. This email didn't have specific verbiage as asked, but I hope it is helpful. I have significant experience and training on how to organize groups, including contra-based ones, and this is how I'd break it down if I was setting a policy for a group right now. Thanks, organizers, for all you do. As much as possible, please don't be followers on this one. Lex Spoon

Discussion of covid policies and implementation are a good fit for this list. Discussion of how organizations have navigated conflicting needs and preferences around covid in their communities is also good fit for this list. General "how seriously should you take covid at this point" discussion is not a good fit: there are lots of other places to have that debate. Jeff On Tue, Oct 4, 2022 at 1:39 PM Donald Perley via Organizers < organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; wrote:

Seconding Donald's comments. If this were about say, dealing with harassers, or an alcohol policy, or any other safety issue, my assumption is that we wouldn't be looking to avoid discussion if there was a major difference on the perception of harm or danger. This is one of the few places online where people mostly still are being fairly civil; those "other places" I've almost entirely left or muted because the debate has been so hostile. In contrast, what I read here are people of some fairly differing opinions and no one is shouting or making personal attacks. On Tue, Oct 4, 2022, 3:18 PM Donald Perley via Organizers < organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; wrote:

Actually, I read Donald Perley's comment apolitically, not as a statement that policies should recognize COVID's severe threat to humanity and thus be severe themselves (that's politics), but rather that the severity of COVID in your community at any given moment varies, and so should your policy, for example, to relieve the stress on hospitals. For example, Contra Knights in Orlando is a new group that just started holding public dances this summer. It is illegal here to require vaccination ($5000 fine per person denied, per occurrence, even if you're an unincorporated association or a nonprofit), and there is significant local resistance to mask requirements. So our policy is to recommend masks, to supply KN95s free, to require masks if the case numbers spike, and to cancel dances if the hospitals are stressed, on the presumption that we WILL spread COVID if it's around and adding to hospital stress would be particularly bad. We don't advertise that on our website, we just do it. When BA.4/5 started spiking this summer, we required masks and said that we very strongly urged and expected vaccines, and asked unvaccinated people not to come. But, we didn't check cards or refuse anyone admission, so we were compliant with the law. Attendance was 30% lower at that dance than the prior one, and I heard it from unvaccinated people, but hospitals were starting to get stressed. A month later, we were back to merely recommending masks, as the numbers had gone down and hospitals were no longer stressed. --jh-- Joe Harrington Organizer, Greater Orlando Contra Dance Faculty Advisor, Contra Knights, the UCF contra dancing club contraknights.org FB, Ig: Contra Knights contradancerjoe(a)gmail.com On Tue, Oct 4, 2022 at 4:25 PM Jeff Kaufman via Organizers < organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; wrote:

Have there been dance groups sued because someone caught Covid at a dance? Is that what a waiver prevents? How did they prove they caught it at the dance? Lissa Bengtson San Antonio On Wed, Oct 5, 2022 at 10:49 AM Liz Sturgen via Organizers < organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; wrote:

In my group our old group had been shut down since 2020 partially because the leadership couldn't agree about covid mitigation policies. In spring of 2022 myself and one of the other people in the group decided to reopen it without any covid policy, just allowing people to do what they felt was best as far as masks, vaccines, tests etc. This approach won't please everyone because some people won't go unless everyone's vaccinated but we have had a pretty good turnout every dance that we've had. We've danced once a month March through June, then took a break and came back in September and will be dancing through December. I've made an effort to avoid spelling out a covid policy in our Facebook group, because I've been afraid that bring it up will get people fighting arguing and debating endlessly about the severity of covid and what should be done about it. I never saw anyone else take this approach, I don't know if it's a good approach, but this is what I do. I've even gone so far as to delete comments where people ask about our covid policy just to keep it off of people's minds. But I do always answer those people through Messenger privately. I'm not aware of anyone who's got covid from my dances, but I don't do contact tracing so I don't know. I used to always bring masks l, not K95 masks, but since no one ever took one anyone wearing a mask always brought their own I threw them out and stopped bringing them. The way I see it is if you think the covid is a serious enough risk to need multiple vaccines and a heavy duty mask then maybe you shouldn't be dancing at all. But if your viewpoint is that covid is just something we're going to have to live with and that the disease has a 98% survival rate, then I don't see what the big deal is just use common sense and and don't allow sick people to come who are obviously sick. I've never had anyone obviously sick, but if someone did come I would just tell them they I couldn't come in. At this point let's admit so much of the mask wearing is just virtue signaling. I've had people tell me they've been exposed to covid and they come wearing a mask by the end of the night they're not wearing it anymore. I've had people come and not wear a mask at my dance, but then they organize a dance in their town and they enforce 95 masks for everybody, including themselves. The way I see it is people's vaccine status is none of my business the issue is so much more complicated than "have you had a vaccine". No one's talking about legitimate valid reasons for people to not get vaccinated. And I personally don't trust rapid covid tests, because I've been pretty darn sure I've had covid but I've never ever tested positive for covid since I started testing. My policies, or non policy, seems to please a lot of people and has been successful so far. On Wed, Oct 5, 2022, 1:12 PM Don Veino via Organizers < organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; wrote:

Hi all, I agree. What is the 'right' Covid policy is not known. What Covid policy is comfortable enough for dancers, organizers, and venues is the question. Sharing examples of what others are doing is helpful. I'm not convinced that anonymous posts about unspecified Dances should be taken seriously. We're trying to decide how to resume our 3rd Friday Dances (September - June) At least the first Dance will be Free (Donations requested) - No one should attend who does not feel well or have Covid symptoms - Everyone must be fully vaccinated, but undecided if Booster(s) are required I don't know if it will be the honor system; or if proof required, what proof is acceptable - Everyone must be masked, either N95, KN95, or KF94 I think we will have masks available - All attendees must give contact information - A waiver must be signed - Bring your own water - No refreshments served (any food should be eaten outdoors) - All should notify us if they get Covid within 5(?) days, or find out they have been exposed within 5(?) days before or after. - All will be notified of a possible exposure at the Dance (no names will be disclosed) Thanks, Michael Pavan Roaring Jelly contra dance Band and Dance, Lexington MA http://roaringjelly.org

Hi everyone, Gabrielle Green / Being Better has unsubscribed themself from the list. So there's no point in trying to argue with them. Let's return to the productive conversation that we'd been having. Seth On Wed, Oct 5, 2022, at 2:15 PM, Paul Rosenberg via Organizers wrote:

Acronym: “An abbreviation formed from the initial letters of other words and pronounced as a word (e.g. ASCII, NASA, radar, UNICEF, laser)”. Snafu, below, is an acronym. Most of the rest are just abbreviations. If you can’t pronounce it, then it is not an acronym. My apologies for interrupting this thread, but I love the word, and the concept, and hate to see it being misused! :-) Happy dancing, John John Sweeney, Dancer, England john(a)modernjive.com 01233 625 362 & 07802 940 574 http://contrafusion.co.uk/KentCeilidhs.html for Live Music Ceilidhs http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent http://www.modernjive.com for Modern Jive DVDs From: Don Veino via Organizers &lt;organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; Sent: 05 October 2022 20:01 To: Paul Rosenberg &lt;paul(a)homespun.biz&gt;iz>; A list for dance organizers &lt;organizers(a)sharedweight.net&gt; Subject: [Organizers] Re: Some examples of COVID policies TBH, I'm ROTFL. FWIW, IMO I think BTBA's SNAFU needs addressing IRL - how did COVID and NY pass your filter? SMH. LOL. IDK, but YOLO and I think it's NBD when a post gives you all the information spelled out and the insignificant bit is an acronym. But NWM, IAG! CYA on the flip side, TTYL. JK. ;-) -DV