31 Jul
2017
31 Jul
'17
12:29 a.m.
I've been booking performers for dances for many years and just recently encountered,
for the first time, an expectation that the caller (booked separately) be paid the same
amount as each band member. Is this a new thing? What's the practice in YOUR
community?
Thanks,
Katy Heine
31 Jul
31 Jul
12:44 a.m.
That's the way we've been doing it for ~35 years. We take a percentage
of the door off for overhead, then divide the rest equally among the
caller and individuals in the band (subject to a minimum).
On 7/30/2017 7:29 PM, Katy Heine via Organizers wrote:
I've been booking performers for dances for many
years and just recently encountered, for the first time, an expectation that the caller
(booked separately) be paid the same amount as each band member. Is this a new thing?
What's the practice in YOUR community?
Thanks,
Katy Heine
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list
Organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/organizers-sharedweight.net
1:02 a.m.
We (Friends of Greenfield Dance, one of eight sets of organizers in Greenfield) give the
musicians and caller equal shares.
Liz Sturgen
Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
Get the new AOL app: mail.mobile.aol.com
On Sunday, July 30, 2017 Katy Heine via Organizers
<organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
I've been booking performers for dances for many years and just recently encountered,
for the first time, an expectation that the caller (booked separately) be paid the same
amount as each band member. Is this a new thing? What's the practice in YOUR
community?
Thanks,
Katy Heine
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list
Organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/organizers-sharedweight.net
1:04 a.m.
We have a flat rate system since we often don't make our minimum. I have
heard that we pay equitably, at least I hope so. As a caller I have no
expectation other than it shoukd be in the neighborhood of the band pay.
Over the years we have paid in a variety of ways including a "cut" of the
door, a base rate plus percentage and flat rate. There are bands we don't
book because of this and it's unfortunate but for now this is how we need
to do it.
Mary Collins
On Jul 30, 2017 8:29 PM, "Katy Heine via Organizers" <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
I've been booking performers for dances for many
years and just recently
encountered, for the first time, an expectation that the caller (booked
separately) be paid the same amount as each band member. Is this a new
thing? What's the practice in YOUR community?
Thanks,
Katy Heine
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list
Organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/organizers-sharedweight.net
1:26 a.m.
Out here in Coos Bay, Oregon, our small town dance pays callers $75 plus .08 cents a mile,
and bands get $125 plus .08 cents a mile. Adding in rent, insurance and advertising, we
rarely break even in our dances, which run from September through May. So we have a large
fundraiser once a year that (hopefully) will cover losses.
Some callers and bands won’t book for our dances. Sometimes it’s for lack of pay, and
sometimes it’s because we’re not in the main corridor, we’re a little off the beaten path.
Alternately, it’s a beautiful part of the world and many come and make a weekend of it to
enjoy the ocean. We encourage members to make visitors welcome and accommodate the artists
with comfy places to stay for the weekend, as a nice perk.
First time we heard of paying everyone equally was earlier this year, from Sue Songer
& Betsy Branch out of Portland OR. I’d like to hear more about the logic behind other
groups' decision to pay equally. As a musician, as well as the local volunteer who
books bands and callers, I personally think callers work really hard and deserve
everything they earn. Not that musicians don’t, but I’m not out there directing 20-50
people all evening.
2:23 a.m.
Parity for sure!
Consider the thousands of hours it took for our musicians to learn to play
the instruments, learn the genre, and learn how to play for the dance,
fitting tunes to choreography, and making the dance more danceable. In
addition, bands invest rehearsal hours, both as individuals and as groups.
And the equipment! Many of our musicians have several instruments that
cost them thousands of dollars apiece. More than few $8000 fiddles have
graced our stage and most instruments worth playing cost, at a minimum,
$2000. Musicians also pay for their own pick-ups, special mics, strings,
picks, reeds, rosin, music books, stands, insurance, and assorted
paraphernalia. The financial investment alone, even for our least
experience and shaky players, is mind-boggling. The payout from the dance
can never adequately compensate our musicians for the work and financial
investment they make to get to the point of being able to play for an
evening. The very least we can do is pay them the same as we pay our
callers.
Sarah
On 7/30/17, 8:29 PM, "Organizers on behalf of Katy Heine via Organizers"
<organizers-bounces+ladysmyth=rcn.com(a)lists.sharedweight.net on behalf of
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
I've been booking performers for dances for many
years and just recently
encountered, for the first time, an expectation that the caller (booked
separately) be paid the same amount as each band member. Is this a new
thing? What's the practice in YOUR community?
Thanks,
Katy Heine
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list
Organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/organizers-sharedweight.net
2:35 a.m.
not sure what you mean by "each band member".
if "each" band member expects to be paid $100, and there are three band members,
do you mean the caller wants to be paid $100 or $300?
cheers,
barb
________________________________
From: Organizers
<organizers-bounces+barbkirchner=hotmail.com(a)lists.sharedweight.net> on behalf of
Sarah Gowan via Organizers <organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
Sent: Monday, July 31, 2017 2:23:14 AM
To: Katy Heine; organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
Subject: Re: [Organizers] pay parity for callers & musicians
Parity for sure!
Consider the thousands of hours it took for our musicians to learn to play
the instruments, learn the genre, and learn how to play for the dance,
fitting tunes to choreography, and making the dance more danceable. In
addition, bands invest rehearsal hours, both as individuals and as groups.
And the equipment! Many of our musicians have several instruments that
cost them thousands of dollars apiece. More than few $8000 fiddles have
graced our stage and most instruments worth playing cost, at a minimum,
$2000. Musicians also pay for their own pick-ups, special mics, strings,
picks, reeds, rosin, music books, stands, insurance, and assorted
paraphernalia. The financial investment alone, even for our least
experience and shaky players, is mind-boggling. The payout from the dance
can never adequately compensate our musicians for the work and financial
investment they make to get to the point of being able to play for an
evening. The very least we can do is pay them the same as we pay our
callers.
Sarah
On 7/30/17, 8:29 PM, "Organizers on behalf of Katy Heine via Organizers"
<organizers-bounces+ladysmyth=rcn.com(a)lists.sharedweight.net on behalf of
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
I've been booking performers for dances for many
years and just recently
encountered, for the first time, an expectation that the caller (booked
separately) be paid the same amount as each band member. Is this a new
thing? What's the practice in YOUR community?
Thanks,
Katy Heine
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list
Organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/organizers-sharedweight.net
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list
Organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/organizers-sharedweight.net
10:30 a.m.
Not sure if Katy meant something different, but we ask that each individual
performer be paid the same amount. i.e.: if the caller gets $100, then each
member of the band gets $100. Travel expenses are handled separately.
Sarah
From: barb kirchner <barbkirchner(a)hotmail.com>
Date: Sunday, July 30, 2017 at 10:35 PM
To: Katy Heine <kheine(a)twcny.rr.com>om>, Sarah Gowan <ladysmyth(a)rcn.com>om>, A
list for dance organizers <organizers(a)sharedweight.net>
Subject: Re: [Organizers] pay parity for callers & musicians
not sure what you mean by "each band member".
if "each" band member expects to be paid $100, and there are three band
members, do you mean the caller wants to be paid $100 or $300?
cheers,
barb
From: Organizers
<organizers-bounces+barbkirchner=hotmail.com(a)lists.sharedweight.net> on
behalf of Sarah Gowan via Organizers <organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
Sent: Monday, July 31, 2017 2:23:14 AM
To: Katy Heine; organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
Subject: Re: [Organizers] pay parity for callers & musicians
Parity for sure!
Consider the thousands of hours it took for our musicians to learn to play
the instruments, learn the genre, and learn how to play for the dance,
fitting tunes to choreography, and making the dance more danceable. In
addition, bands invest rehearsal hours, both as individuals and as groups.
And the equipment! Many of our musicians have several instruments that
cost them thousands of dollars apiece. More than few $8000 fiddles have
graced our stage and most instruments worth playing cost, at a minimum,
$2000. Musicians also pay for their own pick-ups, special mics, strings,
picks, reeds, rosin, music books, stands, insurance, and assorted
paraphernalia. The financial investment alone, even for our least
experience and shaky players, is mind-boggling. The payout from the dance
can never adequately compensate our musicians for the work and financial
investment they make to get to the point of being able to play for an
evening. The very least we can do is pay them the same as we pay our
callers.
Sarah
On 7/30/17, 8:29 PM, "Organizers on behalf of Katy Heine via Organizers"
<organizers-bounces+ladysmyth=rcn.com(a)lists.sharedweight.net on behalf of
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
I've been booking performers for dances for many
years and just recently
encountered, for the first time, an expectation that the caller (booked
separately) be paid the same amount as each band member. Is this a new
thing? What's the practice in YOUR community?
Thanks,
Katy Heine
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list
Organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/organizers-sharedweight.net
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list
Organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/organizers-sharedweight.net
11:18 a.m.
Thanks for all of the answers so far. My question relates specifically to what we pay
top-notch bands and callers from out of town for a large annual event. What we've paid
bands over the years is generally more, per person, than what we've paid callers.
Yes, Sarah, you're right about what I mean by pay parity, i.e., if a three-person band
gets paid $300, the caller would get $100.
--Katy
On Jul 31, 2017, at 6:30 AM, Sarah Gowan wrote:
Not sure if Katy meant something different, but we ask
that each individual performer be paid the same amount. i.e.: if the caller gets $100,
then each member of the band gets $100. Travel expenses are handled separately.
Sarah
From: barb kirchner <barbkirchner(a)hotmail.com>
Date: Sunday, July 30, 2017 at 10:35 PM
To: Katy Heine <kheine(a)twcny.rr.com>om>, Sarah Gowan <ladysmyth(a)rcn.com>om>, A list
for dance organizers <organizers(a)sharedweight.net>
Subject: Re: [Organizers] pay parity for callers & musicians
not sure what you mean by "each band member".
if "each" band member expects to be paid $100, and there are three band
members, do you mean the caller wants to be paid $100 or $300?
cheers,
barb
From: Organizers
<organizers-bounces+barbkirchner=hotmail.com(a)lists.sharedweight.net> on behalf of
Sarah Gowan via Organizers <organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
Sent: Monday, July 31, 2017 2:23:14 AM
To: Katy Heine; organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
Subject: Re: [Organizers] pay parity for callers & musicians
Parity for sure!
Consider the thousands of hours it took for our musicians to learn to play
the instruments, learn the genre, and learn how to play for the dance,
fitting tunes to choreography, and making the dance more danceable. In
addition, bands invest rehearsal hours, both as individuals and as groups.
And the equipment! Many of our musicians have several instruments that
cost them thousands of dollars apiece. More than few $8000 fiddles have
graced our stage and most instruments worth playing cost, at a minimum,
$2000. Musicians also pay for their own pick-ups, special mics, strings,
picks, reeds, rosin, music books, stands, insurance, and assorted
paraphernalia. The financial investment alone, even for our least
experience and shaky players, is mind-boggling. The payout from the dance
can never adequately compensate our musicians for the work and financial
investment they make to get to the point of being able to play for an
evening. The very least we can do is pay them the same as we pay our
callers.
Sarah
On 7/30/17, 8:29 PM, "Organizers on behalf of Katy Heine via Organizers"
<organizers-bounces+ladysmyth=rcn.com(a)lists.sharedweight.net on behalf of
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
I've been booking performers for dances for
many years and just recently
encountered, for the first time, an expectation that the caller (booked
separately) be paid the same amount as each band member. Is this a new
thing? What's the practice in YOUR community?
Thanks,
Katy Heine
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list
Organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/organizers-sharedweight.net
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list
Organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/organizers-sharedweight.net
3:17 p.m.
We, Gainesville, Georgia's contra dance, organized and sponsored a
weekend retreat mid-July for weekend contra dance organizers from the SE.
Saturday evening was dedicated to discussing local dance issues.
We had representatives from 7 weekend dances and 9 local dances attending
with organizers arriving from as far away as Memphis and Baltimore.
We covered an incredible range of topics, not least pertaining to
booking and paying talent.
I encourage other areas of the country to do likewise. It was informative.
My understanding is that national quality weekend talent is paid from
$600 to $1000 each for a weekend.
Usually all musicians receive the same pay with some variation with the
caller.
If the contract is with the band then you don't control how the money is
split within the band.
BUT ... every weekend dance is different.
What are your needs, etc.?
Transportation costs and food and housing costs and "plus one" costs can
add up.
Being clear up front is critical.
Lining up tours or being a stop on a tour is helpful.
Top national bands may play a fun close gig at a lower cost for if it's
not cutting into another weekend gig.
Etc.
Heitzso
http://atgaga.com
Thanks for all of the answers so far. My question
relates specifically
to what we pay top-notch bands and callers from out of town for a
large annual event. What we've paid bands over the years is generally
more, per person, than what we've paid callers.
Yes, Sarah, you're right about what I mean by pay parity, i.e., if a
three-person band gets paid $300, the caller would get $100.
--Katy
12:20 p.m.
I’m a caller for small ONS and local dances and I generally find that organizers offer to
pay me more than they pay band members. I usually decline this and offer to split the
total with the band so that each individual is getting the same amount. This feels fair to
me as, while band members are investing huge time in practice and money in instruments, at
the level I work with, they are doing it for pleasure as a hobby, while I am calling more
as a volunteer, out of a desire to build community, and I do tend to carry the stress of
making the evening successful, especially with crowds with mixed levels of experience.
On Jul 31, 2017, at 6:30 AM, Sarah Gowan via
Organizers <organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Not sure if Katy meant something different, but we ask that each individual performer be
paid the same amount. i.e.: if the caller gets $100, then each member of the band gets
$100. Travel expenses are handled separately.
Sarah
From: barb kirchner <barbkirchner(a)hotmail.com
<mailto:barbkirchner@hotmail.com>>
Date: Sunday, July 30, 2017 at 10:35 PM
To: Katy Heine <kheine(a)twcny.rr.com <mailto:kheine@twcny.rr.com>>, Sarah
Gowan <ladysmyth(a)rcn.com <mailto:ladysmyth@rcn.com>>, A list for dance
organizers <organizers(a)sharedweight.net <mailto:organizers@sharedweight.net>>
Subject: Re: [Organizers] pay parity for callers & musicians
not sure what you mean by "each band member".
if "each" band member expects to be paid $100, and there are three band
members, do you mean the caller wants to be paid $100 or $300?
cheers,
barb
From: Organizers <organizers-bounces+barbkirchner=hotmail.com(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers-bounces+barbkirchner=hotmail.com@lists.sharedweight.net>> on
behalf of Sarah Gowan via Organizers <organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>>
Sent: Monday, July 31, 2017 2:23:14 AM
To: Katy Heine; organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>
Subject: Re: [Organizers] pay parity for callers & musicians
Parity for sure!
Consider the thousands of hours it took for our musicians to learn to play
the instruments, learn the genre, and learn how to play for the dance,
fitting tunes to choreography, and making the dance more danceable. In
addition, bands invest rehearsal hours, both as individuals and as groups.
And the equipment! Many of our musicians have several instruments that
cost them thousands of dollars apiece. More than few $8000 fiddles have
graced our stage and most instruments worth playing cost, at a minimum,
$2000. Musicians also pay for their own pick-ups, special mics, strings,
picks, reeds, rosin, music books, stands, insurance, and assorted
paraphernalia. The financial investment alone, even for our least
experience and shaky players, is mind-boggling. The payout from the dance
can never adequately compensate our musicians for the work and financial
investment they make to get to the point of being able to play for an
evening. The very least we can do is pay them the same as we pay our
callers.
Sarah
On 7/30/17, 8:29 PM, "Organizers on behalf of Katy Heine via Organizers"
<organizers-bounces+ladysmyth=rcn.com(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers-bounces+ladysmyth=rcn.com@lists.sharedweight.net> on behalf of
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net <mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>>
wrote:
<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>
Delia Clark
PO Box 45
Taftsville, VT 05073
Office/mobile: +1-802-457-2075
deliaclark8(a)gmail.com <mailto:deliaclark8@gmail.com>
www.deliaclarkconfluence.com <http://www.deliaclarkconfluence.com/>
I've been booking performers for dances for
many years and just recently
encountered, for the first time, an expectation that the caller (booked
separately) be paid the same amount as each band member. Is this a new
thing? What's the practice in YOUR community?
Thanks,
Katy Heine
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list
Organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net <mailto:Organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/organizers-sharedweight.net
<http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/organizers-sharedweight.net>
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<http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/organizers-sharedweight.net>
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10 comments
9 participants
participants (9)
-
barb kirchner via Organizers -
David Harding via Organizers
-
Delia Clark via Organizers
-
Heitzso via Organizers
-
Jennifer Sordyl via Organizers
-
Katy Heine via Organizers
-
Mary Collins via Organizers
-
Sarah Gowan via Organizers
-
via Organizers