Musicians

musicians@lists.sharedweight.net

2 participants
341 discussions

by Chrissy Fowler

Hi all, Recently (and in the past) folks on this list have posted useful and informative documents used by specific dance organizations. Most recently, these related to "code of conduct". The POTD conference organizers (Delia Clark, Linda Henry, Mary Wesley, and I) would like to post these various 'dance series' working documents to the POTD archive, in the relevant spots. (For ex, the recently posted ones would go with Chris Weiler's session: "Positive Solutions for Problems in Your Dance Community.") We'd only post the documents themselves, saved in PDF format, and would add an explanatory note too, something like "The following documents were originally posted on the SharedWeight.net Organizers List." As Delia says, we're "all for sharing all resources in meaningful ways all the time" and we think having such documents in an easily accessible and thematically organized place thereby makes them more useful. Any objections? (Feel free to reply off list, unless it's of a general philosophical nature and you want group discussion.) ktaadn_me(a)hotmail.com Cheers, Chrissy Fowler Belfast ME "Dance, when you're broken open... dance, when you're perfectly free" ~ Rumi chrissyfowler.com belfastflyingshoes.org westbranchwords.com

10 years, 8 months

[Organizers] Callers Musicians share

by Sue Robishaw

Hi All, This is more curious than useful, but on this current discussion and on previous ones I notice (and have paid a lot of attention to since our new dance series is just in its first year) that usually callers and individual musicians get the same amount. Having done both (albeit for small dances) I find calling a LOT more work than playing and am surprised by this (unless it's a lone melody player). Do any dances give the caller a higher share? Sue Robishaw, U.P.M.

10 years, 8 months

Re: [Organizers] Booking & treasury - (was: booking as a team?)

by Chrissy Fowler

I heartily endorse (a) the "guarantee + profit sharing" concept of performer compensation, however the committee works it out, (b) the clear articulation of the compensation formula and (c) the plan executed as articulated, no matter what nasty surprise happens when you count the gate (meeting our obligations is part of being civilized, right?). (Works for me as an organizer, works for me as a caller. And if as a caller I want something different, I can ask BEFORE I SAY YES. If the organizers say no, then I can choose to accept or refuse the gig. Same in reverse - the committee doesn't have to hire a performer whose compensation requirements are beyond what the committee can or is willing to provide.) The dances I've helped organize have had the following "guarantee + profit sharing" formula: Pay X guarantee per performer, then take out expenses/overhead, then any remaining gate is split 80/20 (performer compensation/series kitty) with the performer compensation bonus being divided equally among the performers. Flat fee for sound (more for a separate provider.) We now cap band guarantees and bonus shares at 4. (So 5+ musicians divide 4 guarantees/bonuses amongst themselves) The kitty covers shortfalls. We don't vary our formula. Many other workable formulas are out there - simpler, more complex. But, in terms of what's "best", I just shout a big AMEN to Brian Appleberry's comment below. If all (or most) of the committee agrees with the way you're doing the job, and likes the end result, then all should be well. Clear communication and general agreement/approval within the committee is crucial. Beyond that, it's simply the prerogative of the committee to do whatever it wants. (!!!) As in booking, compensation, sweeping the floor, admission fees, sound provision, lighting, snacks, promotion... all of it's up to them. Performers, dancers, other organizers looking on... we can all have our opinions of what that particular committee "ought" to do, but it's their project. Ideally dance organizers would welcome and consider well-intentioned input on how to make the series successful and sustainable, but in the end, it's their series to manage as they will. One might imagine all of us organizers would aim to continually refine our 'best practices', but that's ours to decide. Chrissy Belfast, ME PS (Oh how I love a good soapbox.) "Dance, when you're broken open... dance, when you're perfectly free" ~ Rumi chrissyfowler.com belfastflyingshoes.org westbranchwords.com > From: organizers-request(a)sharedweight.net > Subject: Organizers Digest, Vol 46, Issue 5 > To: organizers(a)sharedweight.net > Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 22:06:53 -0500 > > Send Organizers mailing list submissions to > organizers(a)sharedweight.net > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/organizers > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > organizers-request(a)sharedweight.net > > You can reach the person managing the list at > organizers-owner(a)sharedweight.net > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Organizers digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Booking & treasury - (was: booking as a team?) > (Merle Mceldowney) > 2. Re: Booking & treasury - (was: booking as a team?) (Jeff Kaufman) > 3. Re: booking as a team? (brianappleberry(a)yahoo.com) > 4. Re: Booking & treasury - (was: booking as a team?) > (Mary Anne Eason) > 5. Re: Booking & treasury - (was: booking as a team?) > (Merle Mceldowney) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 17:23:55 -0500 > From: Merle Mceldowney <merle.mceldowney(a)gmail.com> > To: Mac Mckeever <macmck(a)ymail.com>, A list for dance organizers > <organizers(a)sharedweight.net> > Subject: Re: [Organizers] Booking & treasury - (was: booking as a > team?) > Message-ID: > <CAK4w+gpFTV2dwVSa5NisY--gnha_ZJwEcmVwWx1nfZnKM5ijjg(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > There are real down sides in paying musicians based on attendance. There > are lots of factors: competing dances, birthday parties, weather and > somethings that are even more flukey - a transit problem for example. > > We do promise a guarantee that makes it almost worth while for the > musicians to come to NYC. Many nights we come out behind on the dances. > Once there is enough admissions to meet our expenses they get half. So it > means that if they attract more of their friends and followers they get > half. Many of our dances do not make enough for basic expenses. We have > to have a rather major fund raising campaign at the end of each year to > make up for our deficits. > > NYC is bigger in any way. We have more dances that many places. We > probably pay more rent. We probably have more newcomers over a period of > time. That means we have more people that do not come back. > > I hope our experience is helpful to others. One of the things that I think > makes these dances difficult to run is the talent and committment of the > musicians and callers. Most of them work hard practicing, rehearhising, > and making arrangements and programs. There are musicians that have > studied this stuff for years and want to make a living at it. I really > appreciate it and all of us dance organizers need to. However, in the > scheme of thing there are just not that many contra dancers. Those that > do, want to dance weekly but still it is not unusual for there to be 60 > dancers in the hall. if we have 200 it is a major feat. Dancers want to > dance frequently so they do not want to pay much. I can get a ticket in > the top row of madison square garden to hear sting sing for 181.00. If we > charge 25 to hear Wild Asparagus, or Perpetual e motion there would be a > revolution. We need to consider financial realities to keep the program > alive. > > Merle > > > On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 4:47 PM, Mac Mckeever <macmck(a)ymail.com> wrote: > > > I have always struggled with the concept of paying the band, caller and > > sound tech a percent of the admissions. It penalizes them when attendance > > is down for something out of their control ( a huge number of dancers went > > to an out of town weekend or the weather was really bad) and, of course, > > the opposite can be true for good nights. > > > > Instead, we have a standard pay schedule not tied to attendance and make > > adjustments for special occasions as needed. We monitor it throughout the > > year to be sure it is all evening out. If there is a problem over time, we > > tweek our strategy to put us back where we need to be. We have close to > > 100 events a year - so there is a big enough sample to keep any single > > dance from causing a problem. > > > > Mac McKeever > > St Louis > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Merle Mceldowney <merle.mceldowney(a)gmail.com> > > To: A list for dance organizers <organizers(a)sharedweight.net> > > Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2014 3:24 PM > > Subject: Re: [Organizers] Booking & treasury - (was: booking as a team?) > > > > > > It can get really complicated. We pay the musicians a set amount with a 50 > > percent cut of the gate. We need that 50 percent. Many of our dances do > > not make the expenses, so the ones > > that do well help out with the ones that > > loose. We have a saturday night every week from September untill May; that > > is a lot of dances. We have been doing this for 60 years. We also run a > > weekly english dance. > > > > I have been involved for about 15 years. a long time. I think only three > > of the board members have been around longer than me. One problem - and > > this often involves payment of musicians is policies get lost over time. > > There is a manual available that covers a lot of stuff but when there is a > > question the people in charge of the dance do not realize there is a > > description of that policy someplace in this large binder we have that has > > that stuff. > > > > Merle > > > > > > On > > Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 3:59 PM, Dana Dwinell-Yardley <danadwya(a)gmail.com > > >wrote: > > > > > Good heavens: that kind of miscommunication sounds like no fun at all to > > > deal with. I'm grateful (especially now that I'm taking on booking > > > responsibilities!) that we now have a very clear payment system figured > > out > > > in Montpelier. > > > > > > After we take out our overhead, and pay the sound guy, we split what's > > left > > > evenly between the folks on stage, with a limit on band size. So: > > > 2-person band (3 people on stage) = 1/3 to caller, 2/3 to band > > > 3-person band (4 on stage) = 1/4 to caller, 3/4 to band > > > 4-or-more-person band (5+ on stage) = 1/5 to caller, 4/5 to band > > > > > > We also have a minimum guarantee if we have a lower turnout, which isn't > > > all that often. We subsidized 7 of our 28 dances last year, but we had 4 > > > dances with a huge turnout and well more than that with an above-average > > > turnout, so it all comes out in the wash. > > > > > > We make special exceptions to this VERY rarely: for example, last time > > our > > > dance was on New Year's Eve, we paid the band and caller a little extra > > to > > > stay past midnight. > > > > > > It took us a while to iron all this out as a committee, but it was well > > > worth it for the lack of confusion we have now! > > > > > > Dana Dwinell-Yardley > > > Montpelier, VT > > > > > > > > > On > > Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 12:00 PM, <organizers-request(a)sharedweight.net > > > >wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >Jerome Grisanti wrote: > > > > > > > > Make sure you let the treasurer know who is getting paid, and how much > > > ... > > > > I've been in the uncomfortable situation of handing someone money and > > > > having them say, "this is not the agreed amount." I've also been the > > > > caller when the person with the bank asked, "how much do we pay you?" > > > > ... Of course, it's not about the money, but smooth relations. > > > > > > > > AMEN ! > > > > > > > > In my > > experience, lack of clarity on money happens all-too-often. > > > > It's usually not a big deal, but occasionally makes a mess. > > > > > > > > I still have uncomfortable feelings about a glitch like this -- from > > > > over a decade ago. At the break, the treasurer came up to me and > > > > began, "We should have talked about this in advance ..." It turned > > > > out that instead of the standard payment (which I had been led to > > > > expect), they wanted to apply a different formula (reducing my pay) > > > > because of an unusual band situation. I didn't know what to say, but > > > > observed that I had traveled hundreds of miles, which might also be > > > > considered unusual ... We concluded the discussion (which occupied > > > > the break, and > > would have been more happily spent socializing, and > > > > planning the 2nd half) with me saying "Just do whatever seems best to > > > you." > > > > > > > > The organizer felt ruffled and grumpy, I felt ruffled and grumpy. I > > > > suspect that whatever compromise was achieved was explained to the > > > > band, so they felt that way, too. Ugh ! A lot of unnecessary > > > > annoyance over $50 or so. > > > > > > > > As Jerome observes, "it's not about the money, but smooth relations." > > > > It's really worth the extra communication to avoid putting performers > > > > and volunteer organizers in awkward situations. > > > > > > > > (postscript: there was a blizzard on Sunday, and I totaled my car on > > > > > > the way home. Definitely not my favorite dance weekend of all time ...) > > > > > > > > > > > > Scott > > > > -------------------------------------------- > > > > Scott(a)ScottHiggs.com > > > > http://www.scotthiggs.com > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Dana Dwinell-Yardley > > > graphic design & layout > > > Montpelier, Vermont > > > 802-229-4008 > > > danadwya(a)gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Organizers mailing > > list > > > Organizers(a)sharedweight.net > > > http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/organizers > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > *Merle McEldowney* > > *212-933-0290* > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Organizers mailing list > > Organizers(a)sharedweight.net > > http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/organizers > > _______________________________________________ > > Organizers mailing list > > Organizers(a)sharedweight.net > > http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/organizers > > > > > > -- > *Merle McEldowney* > *212-933-0290* > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 14:37:49 -0800 > From: Jeff Kaufman <jeff(a)alum.swarthmore.edu> > To: Mac Mckeever <macmck(a)ymail.com>, A list for dance organizers > <organizers(a)sharedweight.net> > Subject: Re: [Organizers] Booking & treasury - (was: booking as a > team?) > Message-ID: > <CAK36jCNvzf-HLBDEmL=CMp0B0vZOtE0iwwbgL7nu7_JR0Zu8ZA(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 1:47 PM, Mac Mckeever <macmck(a)ymail.com> wrote: > > I have always struggled with the concept of paying the band, caller and > > sound tech a percent of the admissions. It penalizes them when > > attendance is down for something out of their control ( a huge number > > of dancers went to an out of town weekend or the weather was really > > bad) and, of course, the opposite can be true for good nights. > > > > Organizer hat on. I like a "profit sharing" model where you guarantee > a fixed payment and then if you make much more money than usual you > give most of that extra to the performers. Two reasons: > > * With a pure percentage system you expose performers to a lot > of risk and variability without much benefit, but if you offer only > a fixed payment then it can be hard to hire performers who play > professionally or come from a ways off. > > * Looking over our attendance sheet there's a lot of variability > that looks like noise, but there are consistently performers > who bring in larger crowds. My model is that we have regulars > and newcomers who tend to come regardless of the performers, > plus some occasional dancers who come out to dance when > they're especially excited about who we've booked. > > Profit sharing seems to mostly protect performers from variability > that is unrelated to their presence, while still compensating them > well when they bring in a big crowd. > > (I do agree about sound. A good sound person makes the band sound a > lot better, but people don't come for the sound person. So pay enough > that you can get someone good, but fixed price is fine.) > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 16:58:20 -0800 (PST) > From: "brianappleberry(a)yahoo.com" <brianappleberry(a)yahoo.com> > To: A list for dance organizers <organizers(a)sharedweight.net> > Subject: Re: [Organizers] booking as a team? > Message-ID: > <1393462700.32512.YahooMailAndroidMobile(a)web121501.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Regarding booking as a team, or any other work done as a committee/board member,? I think the most important thing is to talk about what you're doing, in every meeting.? If all (or most) of the committee agrees with the way you're doing the job, and likes the end result,? then all should be well. > Cheers, > Brian Appleberry > Queen City Contras > Burlington Vermont > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 21:06:06 -0500 > From: Mary Anne Eason <maeason(a)gmail.com> > To: organizers(a)sharedweight.net > Subject: Re: [Organizers] Booking & treasury - (was: booking as a > team?) > Message-ID: <530E9D8E.9040902(a)gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Dana, > > How do you have money to pay the minimum on lower turnout nights if you > never keep any money for yourselves? > > Mary Anne > > On 2/26/2014 3:59 PM, Dana Dwinell-Yardley wrote: > > Good heavens: that kind of miscommunication sounds like no fun at all to > > deal with. I'm grateful (especially now that I'm taking on booking > > responsibilities!) that we now have a very clear payment system figured out > > in Montpelier. > > > > After we take out our overhead, and pay the sound guy, we split what's left > > evenly between the folks on stage, with a limit on band size. So: > > 2-person band (3 people on stage) = 1/3 to caller, 2/3 to band > > 3-person band (4 on stage) = 1/4 to caller, 3/4 to band > > 4-or-more-person band (5+ on stage) = 1/5 to caller, 4/5 to band > > > > We also have a minimum guarantee if we have a lower turnout, which isn't > > all that often. We subsidized 7 of our 28 dances last year, but we had 4 > > dances with a huge turnout and well more than that with an above-average > > turnout, so it all comes out in the wash. > > > > We make special exceptions to this VERY rarely: for example, last time our > > dance was on New Year's Eve, we paid the band and caller a little extra to > > stay past midnight. > > > > It took us a while to iron all this out as a committee, but it was well > > worth it for the lack of confusion we have now! > > > > Dana Dwinell-Yardley > > Montpelier, VT > > > > > > On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 12:00 PM, <organizers-request(a)sharedweight.net>wrote: > > > >>> Jerome Grisanti wrote: > >> Make sure you let the treasurer know who is getting paid, and how much ... > >> I've been in the uncomfortable situation of handing someone money and > >> having them say, "this is not the agreed amount." I've also been the > >> caller when the person with the bank asked, "how much do we pay you?" > >> ... Of course, it's not about the money, but smooth relations. > >> > >> AMEN ! > >> > >> In my experience, lack of clarity on money happens all-too-often. > >> It's usually not a big deal, but occasionally makes a mess. > >> > >> I still have uncomfortable feelings about a glitch like this -- from > >> over a decade ago. At the break, the treasurer came up to me and > >> began, "We should have talked about this in advance ..." It turned > >> out that instead of the standard payment (which I had been led to > >> expect), they wanted to apply a different formula (reducing my pay) > >> because of an unusual band situation. I didn't know what to say, but > >> observed that I had traveled hundreds of miles, which might also be > >> considered unusual ... We concluded the discussion (which occupied > >> the break, and would have been more happily spent socializing, and > >> planning the 2nd half) with me saying "Just do whatever seems best to you." > >> > >> The organizer felt ruffled and grumpy, I felt ruffled and grumpy. I > >> suspect that whatever compromise was achieved was explained to the > >> band, so they felt that way, too. Ugh ! A lot of unnecessary > >> annoyance over $50 or so. > >> > >> As Jerome observes, "it's not about the money, but smooth relations." > >> It's really worth the extra communication to avoid putting performers > >> and volunteer organizers in awkward situations. > >> > >> (postscript: there was a blizzard on Sunday, and I totaled my car on > >> the way home. Definitely not my favorite dance weekend of all time ...) > >> > >> > >> Scott > >> -------------------------------------------- > >> Scott(a)ScottHiggs.com > >> http://www.scotthiggs.com > >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 22:06:21 -0500 > From: Merle Mceldowney <merle.mceldowney(a)gmail.com> > To: A list for dance organizers <organizers(a)sharedweight.net> > Subject: Re: [Organizers] Booking & treasury - (was: booking as a > team?) > Message-ID: > <CAK4w+grnc=01GUPPzz8b13_vGnrN29=tABuo3NGQ=B5nC5+95w(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > We have a special circumstance. Our rent is more than 300 We almost > always have the money to pay the band and caller. We frequently fall short > of the rent, but that is not a problem at the dance. We send a letter to > the band with information before. I believe it is in that letter, that if > we do not have the money to pay the talent in the cash box they will get a > check after the dance. That rarely happens. The band can tell that the > crowd was really small so they can not complain when they have to wait a > few days for the money. It is so much worse for us to loose that much on a > dance than it is for them to have to wait a few days for a check. I hope > they feel bad for us then. It is a community dance and they are part of > our community. > > Merle > > > On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 9:06 PM, Mary Anne Eason <maeason(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > Dana, > > > > How do you have money to pay the minimum on lower turnout nights if you > > never keep any money for yourselves? > > > > Mary Anne > > > > > > On 2/26/2014 3:59 PM, Dana Dwinell-Yardley wrote: > > > >> Good heavens: that kind of miscommunication sounds like no fun at all to > >> deal with. I'm grateful (especially now that I'm taking on booking > >> responsibilities!) that we now have a very clear payment system figured > >> out > >> in Montpelier. > >> > >> After we take out our overhead, and pay the sound guy, we split what's > >> left > >> evenly between the folks on stage, with a limit on band size. So: > >> 2-person band (3 people on stage) = 1/3 to caller, 2/3 to band > >> 3-person band (4 on stage) = 1/4 to caller, 3/4 to band > >> 4-or-more-person band (5+ on stage) = 1/5 to caller, 4/5 to band > >> > >> We also have a minimum guarantee if we have a lower turnout, which isn't > >> all that often. We subsidized 7 of our 28 dances last year, but we had 4 > >> dances with a huge turnout and well more than that with an above-average > >> turnout, so it all comes out in the wash. > >> > >> We make special exceptions to this VERY rarely: for example, last time our > >> dance was on New Year's Eve, we paid the band and caller a little extra to > >> stay past midnight. > >> > >> It took us a while to iron all this out as a committee, but it was well > >> worth it for the lack of confusion we have now! > >> > >> Dana Dwinell-Yardley > >> Montpelier, VT > >> > >> > >> On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 12:00 PM, <organizers-request(a)sharedweight.net > >> >wrote: > >> > >> Jerome Grisanti wrote: > >>>> > >>> Make sure you let the treasurer know who is getting paid, and how much > >>> ... > >>> I've been in the uncomfortable situation of handing someone money and > >>> having them say, "this is not the agreed amount." I've also been the > >>> caller when the person with the bank asked, "how much do we pay you?" > >>> ... Of course, it's not about the money, but smooth relations. > >>> > >>> AMEN ! > >>> > >>> In my experience, lack of clarity on money happens all-too-often. > >>> It's usually not a big deal, but occasionally makes a mess. > >>> > >>> I still have uncomfortable feelings about a glitch like this -- from > >>> over a decade ago. At the break, the treasurer came up to me and > >>> began, "We should have talked about this in advance ..." It turned > >>> out that instead of the standard payment (which I had been led to > >>> expect), they wanted to apply a different formula (reducing my pay) > >>> because of an unusual band situation. I didn't know what to say, but > >>> observed that I had traveled hundreds of miles, which might also be > >>> considered unusual ... We concluded the discussion (which occupied > >>> the break, and would have been more happily spent socializing, and > >>> planning the 2nd half) with me saying "Just do whatever seems best to > >>> you." > >>> > >>> The organizer felt ruffled and grumpy, I felt ruffled and grumpy. I > >>> suspect that whatever compromise was achieved was explained to the > >>> band, so they felt that way, too. Ugh ! A lot of unnecessary > >>> annoyance over $50 or so. > >>> > >>> As Jerome observes, "it's not about the money, but smooth relations." > >>> It's really worth the extra communication to avoid putting performers > >>> and volunteer organizers in awkward situations. > >>> > >>> (postscript: there was a blizzard on Sunday, and I totaled my car on > >>> the way home. Definitely not my favorite dance weekend of all time ...) > >>> > >>> > >>> Scott > >>> -------------------------------------------- > >>> Scott(a)ScottHiggs.com > >>> http://www.scotthiggs.com > >>> > >>> > > _______________________________________________ > > Organizers mailing list > > Organizers(a)sharedweight.net > > http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/organizers > > > > > > -- > *Merle McEldowney* > *212-933-0290* > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Organizers mailing list > Organizers(a)sharedweight.net > http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/organizers > > > End of Organizers Digest, Vol 46, Issue 5 > *****************************************

10 years, 9 months

Re: [Organizers] booking as a team?

by Chrissy Fowler

Oops, I forgot that embedded links don't always work with Shared Weight listserv. (Was trying to make it EASY to access. Here are the URLs to copy/paste.) puttinonthedance.org POTD Archive: http://www.puttinonthedance.org/post-conference/archive/ Scroll down and you'll see "Vision Comes Alive" followed by "Working with Callers & Musicians". Cheers, Chrissy Fowler "Dance, when you're broken open... dance, when you're perfectly free" ~ Rumi chrissyfowler.com belfastflyingshoes.org westbranchwords.com

10 years, 9 months

Re: [Organizers] Booking & treasury - (was: booking as a team?)

by Dana Dwinell-Yardley

Good heavens: that kind of miscommunication sounds like no fun at all to deal with. I'm grateful (especially now that I'm taking on booking responsibilities!) that we now have a very clear payment system figured out in Montpelier. After we take out our overhead, and pay the sound guy, we split what's left evenly between the folks on stage, with a limit on band size. So: 2-person band (3 people on stage) = 1/3 to caller, 2/3 to band 3-person band (4 on stage) = 1/4 to caller, 3/4 to band 4-or-more-person band (5+ on stage) = 1/5 to caller, 4/5 to band We also have a minimum guarantee if we have a lower turnout, which isn't all that often. We subsidized 7 of our 28 dances last year, but we had 4 dances with a huge turnout and well more than that with an above-average turnout, so it all comes out in the wash. We make special exceptions to this VERY rarely: for example, last time our dance was on New Year's Eve, we paid the band and caller a little extra to stay past midnight. It took us a while to iron all this out as a committee, but it was well worth it for the lack of confusion we have now! Dana Dwinell-Yardley Montpelier, VT On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 12:00 PM, <organizers-request(a)sharedweight.net>wrote: > > >Jerome Grisanti wrote: > > Make sure you let the treasurer know who is getting paid, and how much ... > I've been in the uncomfortable situation of handing someone money and > having them say, "this is not the agreed amount." I've also been the > caller when the person with the bank asked, "how much do we pay you?" > ... Of course, it's not about the money, but smooth relations. > > AMEN ! > > In my experience, lack of clarity on money happens all-too-often. > It's usually not a big deal, but occasionally makes a mess. > > I still have uncomfortable feelings about a glitch like this -- from > over a decade ago. At the break, the treasurer came up to me and > began, "We should have talked about this in advance ..." It turned > out that instead of the standard payment (which I had been led to > expect), they wanted to apply a different formula (reducing my pay) > because of an unusual band situation. I didn't know what to say, but > observed that I had traveled hundreds of miles, which might also be > considered unusual ... We concluded the discussion (which occupied > the break, and would have been more happily spent socializing, and > planning the 2nd half) with me saying "Just do whatever seems best to you." > > The organizer felt ruffled and grumpy, I felt ruffled and grumpy. I > suspect that whatever compromise was achieved was explained to the > band, so they felt that way, too. Ugh ! A lot of unnecessary > annoyance over $50 or so. > > As Jerome observes, "it's not about the money, but smooth relations." > It's really worth the extra communication to avoid putting performers > and volunteer organizers in awkward situations. > > (postscript: there was a blizzard on Sunday, and I totaled my car on > the way home. Definitely not my favorite dance weekend of all time ...) > > > Scott > -------------------------------------------- > Scott(a)ScottHiggs.com > http://www.scotthiggs.com > -- Dana Dwinell-Yardley graphic design & layout Montpelier, Vermont 802-229-4008 danadwya(a)gmail.com

10 years, 9 months

[Organizers] booking as a team?

by Dana Dwinell-Yardley

Hi all, I am training to be the booker for the Montpelier, VT, dance under the guidance of long-time booker Cindy Taska. We are considering adopting a team approach to booking -- in case something happens to one person, to share the load, to share the knowledge, to allow for a balanced booking perspective, etc. We're finding it difficult to figure out how to share the job in a way that doesn't create more work for both people, though. Does anyone else book for their dance as a team, or do you all have one person doing your booking? Do you have any other booking tips or "best practices" of booking, things you do that are essential to making the whole process work well, while I'm asking? Thanks for the shared wisdom! Dana -- Dana Dwinell-Yardley graphic design & layout Montpelier, Vermont 802-229-4008 danadwya(a)gmail.com

10 years, 9 months

Re: [Organizers] booking as a team?

by Chrissy Fowler

Our committee has a mixed approach to booking. The entire committee collectively decides who to book in each booking cycle, but the booking coordinator does the actual tasks of booking. I think more than one person could do the actual booking tasks if they were in full agreement re. booking philosophy, there had clear channels of communication, the tasks were divided in a straightforward & logical way, and there were seamless ways to have shared access to evolving info re. the booking process. We maintain a spreadsheet with details re. callers/musicians - people who have already called/played for us and those who've not yet been at our series. We use this for our collective prioritizing. We also have a googledoc of info that's gathered and updated mostly by the booking coordinator during the booking process. (Names of caller/musicians, who's doing sound, press kit info, who's managing the dance, etc.) This googledoc data is used by the booking coordinator, finance coordinator, publicity/promo coordinator, dance night managers, and hospitality coordinator. When thinking about this topic, I went back into the archive for the Puttin' on the Dance organizers conference in 2011, which was jointly sponsored by CDSS, DEFFA, NEFFA, Monadnock Folklore Society, & New England Dancing Masters. There are many juicy things therein, including this: Working with Callers and Musicians… Booking and Working with the Talent – Lisa Greenleaf - Session Notes and Lisa’s Presentation Outline. (Also see related CDSS Starter Kits: Hiring Performers) We will go over many of the issues related to hiring bands and callers, from the business side to artistic expectations, and how organizers can communicate with performers before, during and after the event. Included will be a chance to hear the performer’s side of the experience. Every time I re-read things in the POTD archive, I learn (or re-learn!!) something vital. Fantastic wisdom from the interlacing web of dance organizers! Good luck on your booking transition in Montpelier. Chrissy Fowler Belfast, ME "Dance, when you're broken open... dance, when you're perfectly free" ~ Rumi chrissyfowler.com belfastflyingshoes.org westbranchwords.com

10 years, 9 months

Re: [Organizers] Booking & treasury - (was: booking as a team?)

by Scott Higgs

>Jerome Grisanti wrote: Make sure you let the treasurer know who is getting paid, and how much ... I've been in the uncomfortable situation of handing someone money and having them say, "this is not the agreed amount." I've also been the caller when the person with the bank asked, "how much do we pay you?" ... Of course, it's not about the money, but smooth relations. AMEN ! In my experience, lack of clarity on money happens all-too-often. It's usually not a big deal, but occasionally makes a mess. I still have uncomfortable feelings about a glitch like this -- from over a decade ago. At the break, the treasurer came up to me and began, "We should have talked about this in advance ..." It turned out that instead of the standard payment (which I had been led to expect), they wanted to apply a different formula (reducing my pay) because of an unusual band situation. I didn't know what to say, but observed that I had traveled hundreds of miles, which might also be considered unusual ... We concluded the discussion (which occupied the break, and would have been more happily spent socializing, and planning the 2nd half) with me saying "Just do whatever seems best to you." The organizer felt ruffled and grumpy, I felt ruffled and grumpy. I suspect that whatever compromise was achieved was explained to the band, so they felt that way, too. Ugh ! A lot of unnecessary annoyance over $50 or so. As Jerome observes, "it's not about the money, but smooth relations." It's really worth the extra communication to avoid putting performers and volunteer organizers in awkward situations. (postscript: there was a blizzard on Sunday, and I totaled my car on the way home. Definitely not my favorite dance weekend of all time ...) Scott -------------------------------------------- Scott(a)ScottHiggs.com http://www.scotthiggs.com

10 years, 9 months

Re: [Organizers] booking as a team?

by Jerome Grisanti

One thing I might add as a former Treasurer: Make sure you let the treasurer know who is getting paid, and how much. Particularly if you have a special caller or band and are paying for mileage or some special expense, or if you pay different people different amounts for whatever reason. I've been in the uncomfortable situation of handing someone money and having them say, "this is not the agreed amount." I've also been the caller when the person with the bank asked, "how much do we pay you?" Of course, it's not about the money, but smooth relations. I've also had some dance groups find out which bands and callers get along, musically and dance speaking, and which don't work as well together; e.g., Old Time band with caller who prefers not to call to Old Time, or just plain personality conflicts. If the latter, a measure of discretion is required by the organizers/bookers. --Jerome On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 5:17 AM, Alan Winston <winston(a)slac.stanford.edu>wrote: > The Palo Alto, California Contra dance has a programming committee with > six or so members. > > The two main approaches to booking staff here are > - send out a 'call for dates' to local callers and musicians; if they're > interested in playing they let us know when they're available, and then > a program is assembled, working in chunks of three months at a time. > - Track out of town people who are coming to the vicinity for dance > camps, etc, and sometimes solicit them for off-cycle (we're usually > Saturday, > but can have a special Monday) dates, or participate in tours or > mini-tours where out of town people play local-ish dancers over a week or > weekend. > There's usually more lead time on this than on the other approach. > > I'm the "booking coordinator" for the committee, which means I send out > the call for dates, collate the responses, and make a proposed schedule out > of that. I circulate the draft schedule to the rest of the committee for > responses; they might notice things I haven't. (I don't always get to our > dance because I'm gigging elsewhere or have some non-dance thing going on, > so it's good to have other eyes and ears who can note when bands or callers > have off nights, show improvement, etc.) > > Another committee member tracks the out of town people more closely. > Another committee member organizes our American Dance Week and assembles > pre-and-post Dance Week gigs. > > To keep from getting all our hands crossed, we communicate on an email > list, and we've recently taken to using Google Calendar to track dates that > have been booked ahead of the regular booking cycle. > > This produces a lot of email but everybody on the committee is generally > aware of what's going on. (It doesn't work so well when trying to figure > out goals beyond our defaults of enjoyable evenings and nurturance of new > talent, and I'd actually like a bit more face to face than we get, but it > does work pretty well for divided responsibilities without a lot of > conflict or confusion, and it's less work for me as booking coordinator > than if I were trying to also regularly woo out of town bands and callers.) > > > Whether anything like this approach would work for you depends on > personalities - this is Silicon Valley and we're all fairly techy - and > your particularities of booking. > > > - Alan > > > > On 2/23/2014 9:52 AM, Dana Dwinell-Yardley wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> I am training to be the booker for the Montpelier, VT, dance under the >> guidance of long-time booker Cindy Taska. We are considering adopting a >> team approach to booking -- in case something happens to one person, to >> share the load, to share the knowledge, to allow for a balanced booking >> perspective, etc. >> >> We're finding it difficult to figure out how to share the job in a way >> that >> doesn't create more work for both people, though. Does anyone else book >> for >> their dance as a team, or do you all have one person doing your booking? >> >> Do you have any other booking tips or "best practices" of booking, things >> you do that are essential to making the whole process work well, while I'm >> asking? >> >> Thanks for the shared wisdom! >> Dana >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Organizers mailing list > Organizers(a)sharedweight.net > http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/organizers > -- Jerome Grisanti 660-528-0858 http://www.jeromegrisanti.com "We should consider every day lost on which we have not danced at least once." -- Friedrich Nietzsche

10 years, 9 months

Re: [Organizers] starting a new dance series

by John Sweeney

We did some analysis of swings some time ago, considering a typical contra dance evening, with modern contra dances and their bias towards swings. We estimated that there was about 106 minutes of dancing, and that about 26% of it was swinging! As a dancer you spend nearly THIRTY MINUTES of the evening swinging! To let first-timers flounder without help on their swinging seems extremely unfair to me. And while we have some excellent swingers who can teach a swing well, we also have dancers who are not so good, have strange ideas, and are the most likely to teach a first-timer while the caller is teaching the dance. So if there are only a few first-timers I will teach them the swing individually before the first dance. But if that isn't possible, if I am aware of any first-timers being present, then I always teach the swing when we get to it in the first dance. It only takes a few seconds and can make an incredible difference to the first-timer's experience. There is also always the hope that some of the more experienced dancers will pick up some of the tips and improve their swinging. Happy dancing, John John Sweeney, Dancer, England john(a)modernjive.com 01233 625 362 http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent

10 years, 11 months

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