1 Jun
2015
1 Jun
'15
10:55 p.m.
How can one simply, consistently and clearly designate two persons to participate in an
allemande ? Michael Fuerst 802 N Broadway Urbana IL 61801 217 239 5844
On Monday, June 1, 2015 5:41 PM, Ron Blechner via Callers
<callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
RE: Dave:
Clockwise / counterclockwise - too wordy, and some people have trouble
with this regardless.
Hey: What about on the left diagonal? Along the set?
I also really don't like the blaming of the dance if it's not 100%
intuitive. Plenty of dances flow great but have a counter-intuitive
element. Restricting dances to those without counter-intuitive moves
is basically saying, "Sorry, if we want to be genderfree, we need to
put a cap on how difficult a dance is. Sorry genderfree dancers, you
aren't allowed to dance too advanced." That's a big problem.
Rollaways can *not* be handled from left to right - who does the
rolling is not indicated at all!
On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 1:23 PM, Dave Casserly
<david.j.casserly(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Also with regard to Ron's questions, numbers 2 and
3 (who-leads-whom and
who-walks-forward) can be handled by using the terms "clockwise" and
"counterclockwise." As to 4 (who passes whom for a hey), I agree with Bob
that if the dance is good, it should be obvious, but even if not, "pass left
shoulders in the middle for a hey for four" can only be interpreted one way,
so that fixes the issue of referring to roles. Roll-aways can be handled
with "roll away from the left to the right" or "roll away from the right
to
the left."
I'm not saying that it's perfect, but it is actually quite doable to call a
dance without referring to roles at all, even without resorting to first or
second corners.
Perry asked for an example of a dance with global terminology used. Here's
one (just picking a common, typical dance):
Square Affair, by Becky Hill
A1 Long Lines, 1st corners chain (or just say "chain" if you're dealing
with
experienced dancers and don't want to use the corners terminology)
A2 Balance and pull by partner, pull by neighbor, balance and pull by
partner, pull by neighbor
B1 New neighbors balance and swing
B2 Circle 3/4, partner swing
Perry, you also mentioned that you are trying to figure out how global
terminology would work for proper dances. I have always called proper
dances using global terminology without even thinking about it. For Chorus
Jig, for instance, why would you ever need to use the term "gent" or
"lady"?
Down the outside, back, down the middle, back and neighbor around-the-waist
turn, 1s turn contra corners, 1s balance and swing. Nothing that any
particular role does that the other role isn't doing at the same time.
On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 9:41 AM, Bob Morgan via Callers
<callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
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With regard to Ron's questions
1. Would be easily covered by 1st or 2nd corners walk forward to a wave
2. Again can be done with reference to corners
3. Not so familiar with these.
4. You usually only need an obvious first pass person so not an issue I
think
5. If you're facing out you turn, if you're facing across you walk is how
I call it anyway
Bob
On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 5:09 PM, Ron Blechner via Callers
<callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
--
David Casserly
(cell) 781 258-2761
Andrea, how would you handle the following:
1. Lines of one role/position to the center to a wavy line, as in Trip to
Lambertville, et all?
2. Indication of who walks forward / backs up in a gypsy star?
3. Indication of who-leads-who, such as in Ramsay Chase, Pedal Pushers,
Jurassic Redheads, etc.
4. Indication of who is passing while calling a hey.
5. Indication of who crosses, who turns in a box circulate?
6. Indication any other role/position specific move that I haven't
mentioned? Turn over right shoulder, as in Fairport Harbour? Rollaways?
None of these fall under the "most unusual figures" as you stated.
Ron
On Jun 1, 2015 11:59 AM, "Andrea Nettleton via Callers"
<callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
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In previous discussions here, on FB, and privately with organizers at
Hampshire over the last two years, I have discussed the possible use of
global terminology for gender free contra. I would contend that if used,
everyone would become more aware of the structure of dances. Only the most
unusual figures/sequences would be unable to be called. The addition of
first and second corner positions to the arsenal makes it possible for same
role dancers to also be called upon to dance together without reference to
gender. Second corners chain, or first corners allemande L 1 1/2 for
example. It would have to be agreed that this refers to those standing in
those positions at that moment. In ECD we use first and second corners to
refer to the people, first and second diagonals for the positions. But
since we use diagonal to refer to those across and over one set, this seems
unhelpful. Simply corner positions works better. I'm glad some folks are
trying it out at last. I had hoped for an opportunity myself before now.
Cheers,
Andrea
Sent from my iOnlypretendtomultitask
On Jun 1, 2015, at 8:37 AM, Jim Hemphill via Callers
<callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
The recent discussions on this topic inspired me to try an experiment in
gender free calling. Last night I called the contra dance in St. Louis
using gender free calling without telling anyone. The experiment was a
great success. I received lots of positive feedback on the evenings dance.
At the break and after the dance I made a point to ask several dancers, some
were callers as well, if they noticed anything different or unusual about
the dances or how I taught them. One person noticed that there were more
dances that included a swing in the center for couple 2 than usual. No one
I talked to noticed that the calls and teaching were gender free.
It took some extra time to construct a fun, diverse 3 hour program, but
it is certainly possible. Re-labeling the dancers is not the only way to
call gender free.
If you are interested in the program I used or the larger collection of
gender free dances I chose the program from, send me an email,
arcadian35(a)gmail.com.
Thanks,
Jim Hemphill
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2 Jun
2 Jun
6:30 a.m.
New subject: [Callers] Another approach to Gender Free calling
Michael,
Partners neighbors and shadows have not changed. Corners as accurately designates which
two dancers must allemande as any other designation, with the bonus that they don't
even have to be the same role. You could put the N you intend to swing on the diagonal by
making the dance proper, but first corner is still those who could step straight fwd from
long lines and have near hands be R.
Andrea
Sent from my iOnlypretendtomultitask
On Jun 1, 2015, at 6:55 PM, Michael Fuerst via Callers
<callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
How can one simply, consistently and clearly designate two persons to participate in an
allemande ?
Michael Fuerst 802 N Broadway Urbana IL 61801 217 239 5844
On Monday, June 1, 2015 5:41 PM, Ron Blechner via Callers
<callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
RE: Dave:
Clockwise / counterclockwise - too wordy, and some people have trouble
with this regardless.
Hey: What about on the left diagonal? Along the set?
I also really don't like the blaming of the dance if it's not 100%
intuitive. Plenty of dances flow great but have a counter-intuitive
element. Restricting dances to those without counter-intuitive moves
is basically saying, "Sorry, if we want to be genderfree, we need to
put a cap on how difficult a dance is. Sorry genderfree dancers, you
aren't allowed to dance too advanced." That's a big problem.
Rollaways can *not* be handled from left to right - who does the
rolling is not indicated at all!
On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 1:23 PM, Dave Casserly
<david.j.casserly(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Also with regard to Ron's questions, numbers
2 and 3 (who-leads-whom and
who-walks-forward) can be handled by using the terms "clockwise" and
"counterclockwise." As to 4 (who passes whom for a hey), I agree with Bob
that if the dance is good, it should be obvious, but even if not, "pass left
shoulders in the middle for a hey for four" can only be interpreted one way,
so that fixes the issue of referring to roles. Roll-aways can be handled
with "roll away from the left to the right" or "roll away from the right
to
the left."
I'm not saying that it's perfect, but it is actually quite doable to call a
dance without referring to roles at all, even without resorting to first or
second corners.
Perry asked for an example of a dance with global terminology used. Here's
one (just picking a common, typical dance):
Square Affair, by Becky Hill
A1 Long Lines, 1st corners chain (or just say "chain" if you're dealing
with
experienced dancers and don't want to use the corners terminology)
A2 Balance and pull by partner, pull by neighbor, balance and pull by
partner, pull by neighbor
B1 New neighbors balance and swing
B2 Circle 3/4, partner swing
Perry, you also mentioned that you are trying to figure out how global
terminology would work for proper dances. I have always called proper
dances using global terminology without even thinking about it. For Chorus
Jig, for instance, why would you ever need to use the term "gent" or
"lady"?
Down the outside, back, down the middle, back and neighbor around-the-waist
turn, 1s turn contra corners, 1s balance and swing. Nothing that any
particular role does that the other role isn't doing at the same time.
On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 9:41 AM, Bob Morgan via Callers
<callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
With regard to Ron's questions
1. Would be easily covered by 1st or 2nd corners walk forward to a wave
2. Again can be done with reference to corners
3. Not so familiar with these.
4. You usually only need an obvious first pass person so not an issue I
think
5. If you're facing out you turn, if you're facing across you walk is how
I call it anyway
Bob
On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 5:09 PM, Ron Blechner via Callers
<callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
--
David Casserly
(cell) 781 258-2761
Andrea, how would you handle the following:
1. Lines of one role/position to the center to a wavy line, as in Trip to
Lambertville, et all?
2. Indication of who walks forward / backs up in a gypsy star?
3. Indication of who-leads-who, such as in Ramsay Chase, Pedal Pushers,
Jurassic Redheads, etc.
4. Indication of who is passing while calling a hey.
5. Indication of who crosses, who turns in a box circulate?
6. Indication any other role/position specific move that I haven't
mentioned? Turn over right shoulder, as in Fairport Harbour? Rollaways?
None of these fall under the "most unusual figures" as you stated.
Ron
On Jun 1, 2015 11:59 AM, "Andrea Nettleton via Callers"
<callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> In previous discussions here, on FB, and privately with organizers at
> Hampshire over the last two years, I have discussed the possible use of
> global terminology for gender free contra. I would contend that if used,
> everyone would become more aware of the structure of dances. Only the most
> unusual figures/sequences would be unable to be called. The addition of
> first and second corner positions to the arsenal makes it possible for same
> role dancers to also be called upon to dance together without reference to
> gender. Second corners chain, or first corners allemande L 1 1/2 for
> example. It would have to be agreed that this refers to those standing in
> those positions at that moment. In ECD we use first and second corners to
> refer to the people, first and second diagonals for the positions. But
> since we use diagonal to refer to those across and over one set, this seems
> unhelpful. Simply corner positions works better. I'm glad some folks are
> trying it out at last. I had hoped for an opportunity myself before now.
> Cheers,
> Andrea
>
> Sent from my iOnlypretendtomultitask
>
> On Jun 1, 2015, at 8:37 AM, Jim Hemphill via Callers
> <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> The recent discussions on this topic inspired me to try an experiment in
> gender free calling. Last night I called the contra dance in St. Louis
> using gender free calling without telling anyone. The experiment was a
> great success. I received lots of positive feedback on the evenings dance.
> At the break and after the dance I made a point to ask several dancers, some
> were callers as well, if they noticed anything different or unusual about
> the dances or how I taught them. One person noticed that there were more
> dances that included a swing in the center for couple 2 than usual. No one
> I talked to noticed that the calls and teaching were gender free.
>
> It took some extra time to construct a fun, diverse 3 hour program, but
> it is certainly possible. Re-labeling the dancers is not the only way to
> call gender free.
>
> If you are interested in the program I used or the larger collection of
> gender free dances I chose the program from, send me an email,
> arcadian35(a)gmail.com.
>
> Thanks,
> Jim Hemphill
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Callers mailing list
> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Callers mailing list
> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>
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Michael Fuerst via Callers